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Grex > Agora41 > #37: What can be done in the middle east? | |
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richard
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What can be done in the middle east?
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Mar 29 05:55 UTC 2002 |
From cnn.com
Israel declares Arafat 'enemy'
March 29, 2002 Posted: 12:37 AM EST (0537 GMT)
Israelis set up blockades in the West Bank following the Passover bombing.
JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Friday that
the nation's Cabinet has declared Yasser Arafat an "enemy" and that Israel
will do everything in its power to "isolate" the Palestinian leader.
Sharon said Arafat is heading a "coalition of terror."
As Sharon spoke, Israeli tanks and bulldozers were tearing down the fences
and walls surrounding Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah, while he was
inside.
Israel's moves come after a Palestinian terror attack killed 21 people at
a Passover dinner Wednesday night in the Israeli coastal town of Netanya.
The militant wing of Hamas claimed responsibility for that attack, a
suicide bombing. Hamas also claimed responsibility for a shooting Thursday
in a Jewish settlement near Nablus that killed four Israeli settlers.
Gunfire and tank fire was reported as Palestinians and Israeli forces
clashed Friday in Ramallah. Israeli snipers were poised on buildings
outside Arafat's complex and were shooting into the Palestinian
headquarters compound, Palestinian sources said.
Sharon's remarks came at a news conference after an all-night Cabinet
meeting.
Arafat held a news conference in Ramallah on Thursday, saying Palestinians
were ready to implement a U.S. cease-fire plan "without any conditions."
(Full story)
But Israeli officials were skeptical. "We have a right to defend
ourselves," Ra'anan Gissin, spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel
Sharon, had said while the Cabinet met behind closed doors.
His words did little to assuage Israeli officials. "We're quite fed up
with those declarations that Arafat makes every time he feels the pressure
is mounting on him," said Gissin. "He has to take real action.
Declarations won't do. They won't get him off the hook."
Before Friday's move into Ramallah, the Israeli army had said it was
calling up reserve forces in response to recent Palestinian terrorist
attacks. The army did not say how many reservists were being called up.
Palestinians have expected Israeli retaliation for a Hamas terror attack
Wednesday that killed 21 Jews celebrating Passover.
"What is expected is an attack by Israel forces," Farouq Kaddoumi, the
Palestinian Liberation Organization's political chief, told delegates
Thursday at the Arab League summit in Beirut, Lebanon. "We are expecting
large-scale operation, retaliation in next few hours."
Fresh violence erupted against Israelis earlier Thursday, even as Arafat
announced he was ready to implement the Tenet cease-fire proposal "without
conditions."
Shortly after Arafat spoke, a Palestinian gunman opened fire Thursday at
the Alon Moreh Jewish settlement near Nablus, killing four settlers before
Israeli forces shot him dead, the Israeli army said. Another settler was
slightly wounded in the attack.
Hamas, a Palestinian Islamic fundamentalist group that has been labeled by
the U.S. State Department as a terrorist organization, claimed
responsibility for the attack, saying the gunman was from the Askar
refugee camp near Nablus.
Hamas has carried out other attacks on Israeli military and civilian
targets during the 18-month-old Al Aqsa Intifada, including Wednesday's
"Passover massacre."
After that attack, a top Israeli official said the government would use
all "necessary measures" to stop further terrorist attacks.
Wednesday's terror attack in Netanya came on the first night of the Jewish
religious celebration of Passover during a traditional Seder at a seaside
hotel. More than 170 people were wounded. (More on the bombing)
A source at the Israeli Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem said Thursday that
Israel had not responded to Wednesday's terror attack because the
government continued to support U.S. Mideast envoy Anthony Zinni's efforts
to reach a cease-fire. He is still in the region, and U.S. officials said
Zinni will remain there to try to negotiate a cease-fire.
"Israel will do the most it can," said the source, adding that Israel has
followed a policy of retaliatory restraint for the last 10 days. During
that period, the source said, Israeli authorities have intercepted 11
would-be suicide bombers.
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| 604 responses total. |
richard
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response 1 of 604:
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Mar 29 05:59 UTC 2002 |
Okay this sounds like its going from really bad to really REALLY bad before
long. Sooner or later, somebody has to turn the other cheek. This business
of retaliation being necessary in order to not look weak doesnt lead to
any kind of resolution. Just more killing
The Israelis are focusing on Arafat, but how powerful is he anymore? He's
surrounded in his headquarters by Israeli tanks and has called for peace.
Seems pretty clear the more militant palestinian factions arent listening
to him. And is Sharon acting like a peacemaker or a bully? I really
think both sides are not looking good here and that a mediator needs to
get Sharon and Arafat in a room and slap both of them around. What a mess!
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bdh3
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response 2 of 604:
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Mar 29 08:17 UTC 2002 |
And its getting worse. Current stories are that the IDF has in
fact occupied Arafat's compound and that much of it is in flames.
Not a word about casualties in the apparent gunbattle at Arafat's office
door inside the compound.
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mary
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response 3 of 604:
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Mar 29 11:49 UTC 2002 |
Israel has a long-held policy of not allowing terrorists to get rewarded
for their actions by caving to demands. If someone hijacks an Israeli
plane in demand for, say, release of Palestinian prisoners, the demands
will not be met. No exceptions. Sharron's daughter could be in seat 8B
and the plane will explode. What this policy has done, over time, is
deter such activity. But when it comes to the peace process Israel goes
the whole other direction. They state quite clearly that all it will take
to end a ceasefire is for any violence against Israeli. Wow. They put
out an invitation to scuttle the process and there will always be those
willing to do so, *ON BOTH SIDES*.
I find that a telling statement that Israel isn't even close to wanting
the violence to end if Palestinians still exists.
Aarafat is a spokesperson. I don't believe he has much real power over
the situation. He is also wearing a bullseye on his forehead.
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gull
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response 4 of 604:
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Mar 29 14:56 UTC 2002 |
I think Arafat will be assassinated within a month, personally.
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other
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response 5 of 604:
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Mar 29 16:38 UTC 2002 |
A Hamas spokesperson said last night, in so many words, that Arafat was
powerless to control the suicide bombers.
An interesting thing I noticed is that the rhetoric used by both Hamas
and Israel to justify their ATTACKS is "defending ourselves." Hamas with
their suicide bombers, and Israel with their tanks. Each is engaged in a
series of retaliatory strikes. If we were to boil down all the reports
and extract the probable truth, we would conclude that each renewed round
of large-scale fighting begins with the actions of a few individuals on
one side or the other who refuse to honor cease-fire proclamations.
Since each action prompts a retaliatory action in an escalating cycle,
throwing a single stone at some egotistical, gun-toting Israeli teenager
who is then forced to defned his masculinity by shooting back, or some
similarly small-minded inverse action can scuttle months of high-level
diplomacy.
There just is not either sufficient will or sufficient discipline on
either side to end this conflict.
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klg
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response 6 of 604:
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Mar 29 19:04 UTC 2002 |
so if arafat is "powerless" he's got to be removed so that we
can identify the person who is, in fact in charge
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richard
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response 7 of 604:
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Mar 29 20:14 UTC 2002 |
If Arafat is assassinated, israel would face the wrath ofmuch of the
arab world. There would be mass violence and the militant Hammas would not
accept peace until Sharon is assassinated in retaliation
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oval
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response 8 of 604:
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Mar 29 20:22 UTC 2002 |
i fear he's already dead.
i dont have CNN etc and general hospital isn't discussing it...
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void
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response 9 of 604:
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Mar 29 20:34 UTC 2002 |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-1622973,00.html
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oval
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response 10 of 604:
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Mar 29 20:44 UTC 2002 |
thanks
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russ
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response 11 of 604:
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Mar 29 21:55 UTC 2002 |
Let's forget what can be done. Let's talk about what SHOULD be done.
Fact: The area set out by the United Nations for the original state
of Israel encompassed the entire West Bank and Gaza strip.
Fact: The Muslim Arabs have tried three times to annihilate Israel
and commit genocide against the Jewish population. Jews caught
by Arab armies have been massacred wholesale.
Fact: All "peace" negotiations thus far have been acknowledged by Arab
Muslims to be a pretext for gaining position for another war of
annihilation. None of these negotiations are in good faith.
Conclusion 1: The "Arab" West Bank, etc. is not legitimately Arab. It
was ill-gotten gains from a war of attempted genocide; the
Israeli conquest in 1967 restored it to its proper control.
The pre-1967 borders of Israel are merely a case-fire line, not
the proper boundaries of that nation.
Conclusion 2: Muslim Arabs should be punished for their past and
on-going crimes with regard to Jews and the state of Israel.
The entire Muslim population of the West Bank and Gaza strip
should be moved to other Arab nations. Those who are descended
from post-1938 migrants (less than ten years) should expect no
compensation. The rest can take up residence in houses and farm
lands abandoned by Jews who fled those nations in the last
century. Those who cannot find such housing should receive
payments to purchase houses and lands; these payments should
come in part from back rent and interest due on the abandoned
Jewish homes and lands. The rest should be paid 50/50 by
Western nations and Arab oil states.
Anything less than this is an admission that trying to murder your
neighbor and take his lands is a legitimate response to having a
different religion than he does.
(Okay, let the fire-storm begin!)
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jazz
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response 12 of 604:
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Mar 29 23:39 UTC 2002 |
What do you suggest about that American problem, Russ?
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russ
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response 13 of 604:
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Mar 30 01:00 UTC 2002 |
Re #5: If Arafat is unable to control the suicide bombers, why
is he able to arrest their leaders (albeit on a catch-and-release
program)? And why are some of the bombers from his own Fatah group?
If what Hamas says is true, then Arafat is irrelevant. Despite his
financing and his massive number of armed followers, he has no
influence. If he can't lead and can't use his police powers to
stop the bombers, he is not a head of state in any sense of the
word. He should have stepped down as soon as his best efforts
yielded nothing. Since he won't, he has to be removed. He should
probably be removed to the Hague to stand trial for crimes against
humanity, but we'll see.
The truth is that Arafat has plenty of influence, but he won't use
it to make peace despite the agreements he's signed. Instead he
has maintained a state of war against a nation to which he has sworn
to make peace, while hiding behind claims of his own ineffectuality.
Having chosen to live by the sword, he deserves to die by it.
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gull
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response 14 of 604:
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Mar 30 01:06 UTC 2002 |
He only has influence if he can point to reasons why what he says is
credible. Right now he has none -- no one on the Arab side seriously
believes Israel will cut a deal if they stop their attacks. It all comes
down to a lack of trust.
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krj
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response 15 of 604:
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Mar 30 01:19 UTC 2002 |
Russ, could you please provide a citation for your first item, that the
original UN partition plan assigned the West Bank and Gaza to
Jewish control? I don't recall hearing that before, or seeing
it in maps; my vague memory is of seeing a map of the proposed
partition which was a patchwork quilt of intermixed populations.
Thanks.
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tpryan
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response 16 of 604:
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Mar 30 02:03 UTC 2002 |
Maybe the Isralies should go throughout Palestine and kill
every first born son of a family that does not do something to
show agreement is Isreal.
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oval
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response 17 of 604:
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Mar 30 03:16 UTC 2002 |
does arafat have the money for a proper army? is there another option for
defending his land and people?
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gelinas
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response 18 of 604:
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Mar 30 05:44 UTC 2002 |
Re #4: I thought he had been assassinated when his plane went down in Egypt
a decade ago. I was very surprised when he emerged alive. Don't count him
out yet. (I didn't hear on tonight's news that he was dead.)
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russ
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response 19 of 604:
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Mar 30 16:16 UTC 2002 |
Re #15: Leeron posted links to maps some time ago, Ken.
I don't have the URLs ready to hand, but they're in the
last 6 months or so of Israel items. Should be a cinch
to find. ;-)
Re #17: Arafat doesn't need an army; he isn't running a
government, only an "authority". He was given the money
and training for a very large and well-armed police force.
Some of his aid included US-made M16 rifles. This should
have been more than sufficient for him to control the
likes of Hamas and Islamic Jihad so that he could prepare
for the next step in the peace process.
Those rifles have instead been used to shoot at Israelis,
including at least one terrorist shooting of civilians
inside Israel proper.
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klg
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response 20 of 604:
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Mar 30 16:22 UTC 2002 |
re: "nincompoop (oval) : does arafat have the money for a proper army?"
Under the agreements Arafat signed, he is supposed to have a police
force, NOT an army, of much smaller size and with much reduced
weaponry than he now has.
And let us not forget, Yasser Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994.
Russ: Note that it is not only Arab Muslims who assist and support
Nobel Peace Prize winner Yasser Arafat. Take the Christian Hannan
Ashwari, for example.
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jmsaul
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response 21 of 604:
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Mar 30 17:01 UTC 2002 |
Do you have a citation for your statement that Hanan Ashrawi is a Christian?
I've seen a film about Palestinian women that included an interview with her,
and given the context I really doubt it.
(Assuming that's who you're talking about)
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swargler
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response 22 of 604:
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Mar 30 18:53 UTC 2002 |
I think you just got to let them fight it out. Let it escalate. Let them
solve it themselves.
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mcnally
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response 23 of 604:
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Mar 30 20:31 UTC 2002 |
re #21: Hanan Ashrawi *is* a Christian. Try a Google search on
"Ashrawi Christian" for a plentitude of links from mainstream news
sources..
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klg
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response 24 of 604:
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Mar 30 22:12 UTC 2002 |
I don't have a citation. It is common knowledge. And probably
an important reason she has no real prospects of advancement in
the PLO.
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