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Grex > Agora41 > #295: Oversized cargo costs extra...but what about oversized people? | |
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gull
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Oversized cargo costs extra...but what about oversized people?
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Jun 21 18:40 UTC 2002 |
This was in the Free Press yesterday:
Southwest's size policy draws complaints
Southwest Airlines is under fire for its policy of charging overweight
passengers for two tickets if they spill over into their neighbor's
seat. The airline says it is trying to provide a comfortable flight for
travelers seated next to large passengers. "We sell seats, and if you
consume more than one seat, you have to buy more than one seat," said
Beth Harbin, a Southwest spokeswoman. Advocates for obese people are
outraged. "It's just discriminatory and it's mean-spirited," said Morgan
Downey, executive director of the American Obesity Association. "This is
singling out a group that's been very heavily stigmatized rather than
making some accommodations in their cabins."
I can see the airline's perspective on this, but I suspect if they
persist they'll get sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act and lose.
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| 62 responses total. |
other
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response 1 of 62:
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Jun 21 19:33 UTC 2002 |
Here's a can of worms...
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michaela
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response 2 of 62:
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Jun 21 20:25 UTC 2002 |
How are they going to determine this, though? My friend and I wear the same
size pants, but I'm 40 pounds heavier due to muscle and such. Not everyone
is identically shaped, even if they're the same height and weight.
I don't really have to worry about this, as I've never "spilled over" into
the next seat, but I'm curious about the policy.
Can they charge extra for screaming kids who interrupt sleep? How about a
surcharge for excessive perfume that causes an asthma attack? Those affect
MY comfort.
(Yes, that was sarcasm...don't jump all over me yet...)
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mary
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response 3 of 62:
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Jun 21 21:25 UTC 2002 |
I think the airlines have a fine idea hear. If someone is really taking
up most of a second seat so that someone else can't comfortably sit there,
then they need to block that unusable seat out. On full aircraft,
charging for the use of that seat sounds reasonable.
I don't see this as unfair or rude.
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glenda
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response 4 of 62:
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Jun 21 21:27 UTC 2002 |
It wouldn't be a problem if they made the seats a reasonable size rather than
trying to fit as many as possible for as much profit as possible.
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oval
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response 5 of 62:
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Jun 21 21:45 UTC 2002 |
exactly.
i'm not overweight and i find them uncomfortably small. i can't imagine being
larger and having to endure it. (and don't get me started on the bump opn the
head rest that makes my head tilt forward, or the lack of room for people
taller than 5'1") i don't think they should design the seatd for the largest
person, but i do think it should be a little roomier than an average sized
person wedged in like a sardine.
i hope i get bumped up.
please please let me get bumped up...
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micklpkl
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response 6 of 62:
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Jun 21 22:03 UTC 2002 |
And Southwest Airlines is colloquially known in these parts as "Southwest
Cattle Haulers" since they try to pack as many as possible into their planes.
This story really disturbs me, but I'm not sure why.
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scott
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response 7 of 62:
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Jun 22 00:17 UTC 2002 |
It's a can of worms, all right.
To start with, what is being sold? Passage for one person, or passage of an
amount of material?
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janc
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response 8 of 62:
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Jun 22 01:12 UTC 2002 |
Well, most airlines do offer an accomodation for people who can't stand to
be in standard airline seats. My dad wasn't fat but he was a 6 foot male and
as he got older he could no longer stand to sit in a fixed position for
several hours. He needed room to be able to shift around. So he had to fly
first class.
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ric
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response 9 of 62:
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Jun 22 01:25 UTC 2002 |
I don't think Southwest's planes are any more crowded than other airlines
planes (barring American and Midway Airlines, which both claim larger seats..
and I've flown Midway - they are bigger).
re 8 - affordability is a factor there.
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klg
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response 10 of 62:
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Jun 22 02:53 UTC 2002 |
The government has got to step in and stop forcing fat people to
fly Southwest.
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michaela
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response 11 of 62:
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Jun 22 03:13 UTC 2002 |
I still don't understand how they're going to determine who to charge, though.
If you order tickets online, there's no way of knowing how the seat will feel.
Are they going to ask for hip and waist measurements?
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bru
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response 12 of 62:
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Jun 22 03:33 UTC 2002 |
WEll, since my wife and I are both overwaight, we just need to sit beside each
other so we spill into each others space. Also, if you sit on an exit window,
you get more space.
But mostly, the problem is, since 50% of the us popuklation is now overweight,
they will be discriminating against 50% of the population.
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jp2
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response 13 of 62:
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Jun 22 04:45 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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janc
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response 14 of 62:
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Jun 22 04:54 UTC 2002 |
50% of the population is not sufficiently overweight to spill into the
neighboring seat.
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brighn
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response 15 of 62:
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Jun 22 05:09 UTC 2002 |
Only in rare cases are people overweight for medical or pathological
psychology reasons. Mostly they just eat too much. I agree with Jamie.
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pvn
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response 16 of 62:
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Jun 22 09:00 UTC 2002 |
Next thing you know the airlines are gonna charge for people that smell
bad or have a cultural proclivity for taking over the pilot seat and
flying into buildings. I would think that given the current times
when over half the US population indicates they are going to drive
to their vacation destination this summer the airlines would be glad
for the fare in the first place. On the other hand, anyone who has
flown next to a fat body even in a wide body knows that although they
can usually wedge themselves into a single seat it ain't exactly
pleasant to sit next to them. It ain't a safety issue either, fat body
just probably burn longer.
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mary
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response 17 of 62:
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Jun 22 11:08 UTC 2002 |
I also don't think the airlines are targeting people who
are simply overweight here, but rather a very small
percentage of the population who really are so large
they don't fit in the seat. And they aren't refusing to
fly them, just to charge for the space they require.
These passengers know who are and will catch on pretty quickly
to the fact they need to tell the res agents up-front of
their special needs. And I suspect, except for a militant
few, most 400 pounders will understand and agree with
this policy.
The question that will come up, I'm sure, is whether
weighting 400 pounds qualifies as a disability under the
ADA. If so, maybe charging for the additional
needed space won't be allowed, under law.
But I also agree with those who say coach is too cramped,
especially when it's a looooong flight.
When do we get to talk about how to handle men who stake
claim on joint arm rests? ;-)
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brighn
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response 18 of 62:
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Jun 22 14:53 UTC 2002 |
I would think that being overweight would count as an ADA diability if it's
because you have a medical problem or a mental pathology that's diagnosable.
"I eat too much" wouldn't qualify, I would think.
My sister in law is profoundly overweight, and as far as I know, she doesn't
claim any disabilities or complain that she's treated differently because of
her weight.
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gull
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response 19 of 62:
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Jun 22 16:46 UTC 2002 |
Re #9: Maybe so, but if they made the seats bigger then ticket prices would
go up for *everyone*. You can't have it both ways.
Re #17: There have already been cases that decided that being significantly
overweight qualifies as a disability. The case will revolve around what's a
"reasonable accommodation", probably.
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jp2
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response 20 of 62:
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Jun 22 17:01 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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carson
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response 21 of 62:
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Jun 22 18:23 UTC 2002 |
(this is a policy that Southwest has had for over 20 years; the recent
publicity is because the company has decided to enforce it. essentially,
if the flight is full, a seat belt extension is needed, and the arm rests
won't go down, Southwest will charge you for a second seat... at the
14-day discount rate. if the flight isn't full, there's no charge.)
(it's an 18.75" cushion, which is about the size of the seat in which
I'm sitting now. I consider it roomy, but I don't exactly have one of
the world's larger asses. that said, the 18.75" size seems to be
standard for all of the chairs in this room, so an airline seat of that
size, while perhaps "small" for some, doesn't seem unreasonable from
a standardization standpoint.)
(a simple geometry exercise suggests that a 54" waist would fit fine.)
(it would be interesting to know what accommodations Southwest makes
for other passengers, such as pregnant women or people in wheelchairs.)
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michaela
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response 22 of 62:
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Jun 22 21:06 UTC 2002 |
54" waist? Okay. Good. I'm way in the clear on that one. :) I thought
the seats were going to be ridiculously small (like, made for a 36" waist),
but if you're over 54"...well... <shrug> Sorry.
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brighn
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response 23 of 62:
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Jun 22 21:42 UTC 2002 |
Hey, 54" isn't THAT big. I'm 42" and I'm usually called "pudgy."
#20> Some people are fat because of biological problems, not because they're
selfish self-centered pricks who can't put the doughnut down at the right
time. I'm one of those pricks. =}
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gull
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response 24 of 62:
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Jun 22 21:48 UTC 2002 |
Re #23: True, but while nearly everyone who's overweight *claims* it's a
metabolism problem, when people are actually tested only a small percentage
actually have a slower than average metabolism.
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