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scg
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Pre 9/11 FBI screwup?
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May 30 04:43 UTC 2002 |
There's been a lot in the news in the last couple weeks about the FBI having
ignored suspicions prior to last September's attacks on the US, perhaps out
of fear of being accused of racial profiling. The question I haven't seen
answered (or even asked) anywhere is whether the suspicions of the FBI field
agents actually were reasonable, given the evidence available to them, or
whether this was just a case of, "they're Arabs; they must be terrorists."
Does anybody here have a good feel for the answer to that?
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| 67 responses total. |
bdh3
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response 1 of 67:
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May 30 06:03 UTC 2002 |
There is credible evidence that the request for search warrants
for the '20th hijacker' was modified by FBIHQ for political reasons
such that FBIHQs own 'PC' squad then rejected it prior to submission
to a judge. In retrospect it was obviously an error. It is also
probable that the results of the search had the warrant been
approved would not have prevented the events of 9/11. (Otherwise
we would already have heard that as it would have been leaked.)
Profiling has its place, but there is something to be said for
the practice of personal responsability where in order to get
a warrant an 'agent' must swear an oath (under penalty of falsehood)
that s/he has knowlege justifying the warrant.
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gull
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response 2 of 67:
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May 30 13:16 UTC 2002 |
The news I've heard has made it sound more like the FBI had information that
might have lead them to suspect an attack, if all the pieces had been put
together, but the individual bits of info were all in different offices in
different parts of the country and no one person saw them all.
I've also heard commentary to the effect of "if they'd tried to do
something, the liberals would have complained it was racial profiling," but
mostly from opinion columnists, so I don't give it much weight.
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scott
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response 3 of 67:
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May 30 14:24 UTC 2002 |
The Register has an item today basically saying that these disclosures ane
probably a ploy to give more power to the FBI.
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gull
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response 4 of 67:
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May 30 14:54 UTC 2002 |
That's a bit too conspiratorial for my taste, but I'll admit it's not
terribly far fetched. The end result is looking about the same --
they're going to partner with the CIA again, essentially bringing us
back to the Hoover days.
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scg
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response 5 of 67:
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May 30 17:47 UTC 2002 |
I'm concerned about this, since I keep reading articles like the one in
today's San Francisco Chronicle, including quotes from these FBI memos that
don't sound like justifiable suspicions to me. The Oklahoma City memo
apparrently said that an agent had "observed large numbers of Middle Eastern
males receiving flight training at Oklahoma airports in recent months." What
the articles don't say is whether that was the extent of the cited evidence,
or if there was more to it than that. In hindsight, we know something was
coming, but if that's the evidence they had at the time, I'm glad to hear FBI
management quashed it. Middle Eastern men who aren't terrorists should
be able to get flight training without harrassment.
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vmskid
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response 6 of 67:
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May 30 18:53 UTC 2002 |
I agree. If these warnings that the FBI got were anything like the warnings
that we have been blessed with constantly since 9/11, what good were they?
How can you do anything about a vague threat that "something big is going to
happen soon"?
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gull
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response 7 of 67:
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May 30 20:19 UTC 2002 |
Don't worry, we're safe from terrorism as long as we don't give 'aid and
comfort' to our enemies by criticizing Bush.
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fitz
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response 8 of 67:
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May 30 20:41 UTC 2002 |
#77> Yeah! and don't merely fly the American flag: Fly your family, for
tourism is just as good as giving Old Samma Bin Lousen the bird. As long as
the American way of consummerism prevails, the wtc shall not have
perished in vain.
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brighn
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response 9 of 67:
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May 30 20:41 UTC 2002 |
#5, last paragraph> Don't let Ann Coulter hear you say that.
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jaklumen
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response 10 of 67:
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May 31 04:18 UTC 2002 |
Good grief.
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bdh3
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response 11 of 67:
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May 31 05:10 UTC 2002 |
One of the 'smoking gun' memos, the one from phoenix I believe, that
proved "Bush Knew" speculated that arab terrorist might train
pilots to use small planes to spray bio/rad. No mention of
flying large commercial aircraft into buildings.
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rcurl
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response 12 of 67:
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May 31 05:28 UTC 2002 |
Wouldn't the thought come easily to mind? Hijackings were considered
possible (answer: play along). Flying into buildings was possible
(answer: only a small plane would be used????). There is a mental lapse
there.
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mdw
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response 13 of 67:
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May 31 06:01 UTC 2002 |
I dunno - I think it's a bit of a stretch. Sounds to me like an idea
that one could patent.
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oval
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response 14 of 67:
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May 31 06:46 UTC 2002 |
..or at least wager money on ..
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russ
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response 15 of 67:
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May 31 07:32 UTC 2002 |
Re #4: It's not conspiratorial at all to note that the FBI always
wants more power (name an agency that doesn't), and 9/11 was the perfect
pretext to get it. The big security act (USA PATRIOT act?) passed
last year contained a laundry-list of old requests that couldn't be
moved until the attacks provided the ideological cover.
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brighn
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response 16 of 67:
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May 31 15:09 UTC 2002 |
The issue isn't about whether or not to accept a conspiracy theory, it's about
which conspiracy theory to accept.
IF the memos don't reveal anything beyond hints, then the current hullaballoo
is a conspiracy by the FBI to gain more power by discrediting the JD's current
budgetary outlays.
IF the memos DO reveal anything beyond hints, then the current hullaballoo
represents an act of the White House to disregard warnings with the knowledge
that a severe terrorist act against the US would do exactly what it did...
boost the President's approval rating skyhigh.
Either way, the seafood in Copenhagen is past its prime.
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michaela
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response 17 of 67:
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May 31 22:01 UTC 2002 |
That last line was great. :)
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polytarp
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response 18 of 67:
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Jun 2 04:22 UTC 2002 |
Hey, if they want to bond together, I say "Great!" We must protect our nation
at all costs, as especially evident after 9\11.
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jaklumen
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response 19 of 67:
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Jun 2 08:17 UTC 2002 |
Are you really on the radical right, or are you just trying to piss
people off?
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remmers
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response 20 of 67:
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Jun 2 11:39 UTC 2002 |
Re #18: What did you say your nation was again?
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mary
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response 21 of 67:
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Jun 2 12:27 UTC 2002 |
The Taliban's agenda is to have our culture more closely comform to their
culture. And the way they've set about doing that is incredibly clever in
it's simplicity. They'll blow up a few buildings full of people then sit
back and watch as our fear (and Ashcroft) does the rest.
It's working like a trained pig.
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brighn
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response 22 of 67:
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Jun 2 16:01 UTC 2002 |
#18> If we abide by the costs Ashcroft and Bush would like to extract, the
essence of our nation will be lost, and there will be nothing left to protect.
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jmsaul
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response 23 of 67:
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Jun 2 16:29 UTC 2002 |
Re #21: I appreciate the sentiments, but would appreciate a cite to any
reliable source that claims that's the Taliban's agenda. Everything
I've seen suggests that their agenda is either (1) get the US out
of the Moslem world so they can make it conform to their perverted
version of Islam, or (2) start an all-out war with the Evil West so
Bin Laden could become the new Saladin, unify the Moslem world, and
see (1) above.
Actually, what I'm saying refers to Al Qaeda. As far as I know,
the Taliban's only agenda was to govern Afghanistan according to
their twisted version of Islamic law.
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mdw
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response 24 of 67:
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Jun 3 01:36 UTC 2002 |
Al Quaeda is definitely focused on America "the evil" -- but it's not
just the moslem world in general -- they're specifically concerned with
israel, also saudi arabia, and they definitely see the US as weak. It's
not clear to me what they think of human human rights or liberty in the
abstract [if anything, the evidence is they don't care much for them],
but at least in regard to the US, they definitely think of the US as
being hypocritical.
Here are some interviews with bin laden & his friends:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/16/1018333492728.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1590000/1590251.s
tm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/02/05/binladen.transcript/index.html
http://www.anusha.com/osamaint.htm
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