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Grex > Agora35 > #146: E-mail from Palm Beach County, Florida | |
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dpc
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E-mail from Palm Beach County, Florida
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Nov 9 21:43 UTC 2000 |
Here is some e-mail from a Democratic Party observer in Palm Beach County,
Florida:
Date: Thursday, November 09, 2000 9:08 AM
Hello again,
Thought you'd like another update from the inside. I spent much of Wed.
as
the Palm Beach County Dem. Party observer in the recount room at the Palm
Beach County Supervisor of Elections. Also present were lawyers and a
staffer representing GWB, several lawyers representing Gore,
representativesof the Reform Party, the Fla. Democratic and Republican
Parties, the
DNCC,US Rep. Clay Shaw and his Dem. challenger Elaine Bloom (this race is
still contested), a Dem. State Senator and a Dem. State Representative
from the County.
The recount was supposed to begin at 1:30, was delayed until 4:00 and
ended
at 11:30. Our role basically consisted of sitting in a cramped room
watching
five staffers run stacks of puch card ballots through counting machines.
Pretty dull all in all until it was discovered that one precinct had not
been
counted in full. This resulted in a net gain for Al of about 360 votes.
The Bush boys lost their smug attitudes and began huddling and whispering
every few minutes.
The absentees came through for Al too. When one votes at the polls in
Florida, they provide a punch instrument which, if used correctly,
completely
perforates the ballot. However, absentee voters often use a pen or other
implement which does not fully perforate the card. This was apparent to
us
from the fact that over 10,000 voters in the County, about 2.2% of the
overall turnout did not make any choice in the Presidential race, but did
vote in the US Senate or Congressional races. We theorized that many
voters
had partially perforated the card, but the machines weren't reading them.
The more times the ballots are run through the counting machine, the more
likely the loosened chits fall off.
When the absentees were counted, 221 ballots that had previously
registered
no vote now did show a vote in the Presidential race. These went
overwhelmingly for Gore, leading to some whooping and high fiving from
our
side. The Bushies really lost it at this point and got a little hostile
with
the staffers, which in turn elicited some harsh responses from the
assembled masses.
Gore's net gain in the County was 643. Word from other counties is that
Gore closed the 1,700 deficit by over 1,200. Only half of the counties
conducted their recounts on Wednesday. The rest are on Thursday.
The bigger problem is that the ballot in Palm Beach County, which differs
in
its layout from the ballots elsewhere in the State, is illegal for
several
reasons. Florida statutes specifically mandate the precise layout of
the ballot and the order of candidates. The law was not followed.
Bush's name
was first, with Buchanan below him and Gore third. This is completely
improper, as well as the fact that the law requires the names to be
placed to
the left with the punch holes to the right of the candidates' names.
On this ballot, some names were on the right and some on the left, with
all of
the punch holes in the middle. It was difficult to line up the name with
the correct hole.
Moreover, 19,000 ballots were disqualified because they voted for two
or more candidates. This is a direct result of the confusing layout of
the
names on the ballot. This represents over 4% of the total ballots. It
was as high as
15% in some predominantly African-American precincts and about 10% in
some precincts with large numbers of Jewish retirees. The Gore vote in
many of these precincts was over 90%.
This explains the networks' exit polling which reflected voters' belief
that
they had voted for Gore, but in fact their ballots had been disqualified.
This led to the initial awarding of Florida to Gore.
Folks, the bottom line is that if the names on the ballot were properly
situated Gore would have had an additional 11-13,000 vote margin in this
County, and the election would be over. We have done a precinct by
precinct
analysis of where the disqualified votes came from. By attributing the
same percentage of the vote Gore obtained in those precincts to the
disqualified ballots, Gore would be winning Florida by at least 10,000
votes. In
other words, Gore has actually won the election both in the popular vote
and in the electoral vote, but he may well still lose it.
You should also be aware that other large counties in the State
disqualified
about one half of one percent of their ballots for casting two or more
votes
in the Presidential race. In Palm Beach County it was 4.4%.
Lastly, don't expect the recount to be over on Thursday, as the media is
stating. Legal actions are underway. The next question, will a judge
order a re-vote just in Palm Beach County with a new ballot?
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| 211 responses total. |
richard
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response 1 of 211:
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Nov 9 22:27 UTC 2000 |
wow, dpc's right in the middle of it...now the gop is threatening
to request recounts in some of the other states that were really close
that Gore carried, Iowa, Wisconsin, New Mexico.
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krj
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response 2 of 211:
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Nov 9 22:31 UTC 2000 |
It would seem only fair.
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richard
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response 3 of 211:
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Nov 9 22:47 UTC 2000 |
btw, the 19,000 disqualified ballots, according to cnn, clearly explain
why the networks called the state for gore early on. The exit polls
in this case showed the votes for Gore in Palm Beach county that didnt
end up being counted as such on the ballots. People said to exit
pollsters that they voted for Gore because they thought they did. Had
their been no ballot irregularity, Gore would have won the state as
projected
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mcnally
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response 4 of 211:
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Nov 9 23:36 UTC 2000 |
There are multiple millions of people in Florida and the networks
might have sampled, at best, a small portion of the 19,000 voters
whose ballots were disqualified. How, then, do those ballots
"clearly explain" the networks' premature predictions?
Even if every single ballot disqualified had been cast for Gore, the
19,000 vote difference would still have been well within the polls'
margins of error and a putatively accurate final prediction from the
networks based on figures that were well within their polls' margins
of error would have been irresponsible (to say the least.)
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bru
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response 5 of 211:
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Nov 10 13:03 UTC 2000 |
talk about spin...
those 19,000 votes only account for 4 % of the county total. If you think that
is enought to throw the exit pols off, you are in dreamland.
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dpc
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response 6 of 211:
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Nov 10 16:52 UTC 2000 |
At least we're not in Bushland. 8-)
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richard
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response 7 of 211:
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Nov 10 20:44 UTC 2000 |
bru, I heard cnn and abc BOTH say that this is *exactly* what threw
their exit polls off.
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mcnally
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response 8 of 211:
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Nov 10 21:00 UTC 2000 |
OK, that's what they said.. When the alternative is that they admit
making irresponsible and inaccurate predictions, which statement do you
think is more likely, regardless of truth?
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janc
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response 9 of 211:
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Nov 10 22:17 UTC 2000 |
My reaction to the "exit polls were more accurate than the vote count" story
was the same as Mike's. I don't care who said it. It's bogus.
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glenda
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response 10 of 211:
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Nov 10 22:30 UTC 2000 |
Personally I think that the media should keep there mouths shut until after
the las polling place has closed.
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rcurl
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response 11 of 211:
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Nov 10 23:09 UTC 2000 |
In Hawaii...
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whatfor
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response 12 of 211:
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Nov 11 00:59 UTC 2000 |
If I recall, the VNS does exit polls in a handful of "key" precincts
and not in every precinct. If one or more of the key precincts are in
the counties under question, it is possible for the voter errors to
significantly affect exit poll data.
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rcurl
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response 13 of 211:
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Nov 11 01:53 UTC 2000 |
If everyone agreed to refuse to answer to exit polls, we would have a
more orderaly and less hysterical election. Everyone could use as their
excuse that they value their *secret ballot*. I do.
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bru
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response 14 of 211:
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Nov 11 02:28 UTC 2000 |
The judge that issued the restreaining order is a democratic appointee of
Lawton Childes, who donated several thousand dollars to the Clinton defense
fund and to the Gore election fund. She should recuse herself as Bush's
brother has done.
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mcnally
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response 15 of 211:
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Nov 11 02:37 UTC 2000 |
Ooooookaay.. You want any Democrat or Republican on the bench to recuse
themselves because of presumed bias? Leaving whom, may I ask?
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mdw
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response 16 of 211:
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Nov 11 02:38 UTC 2000 |
The libertarians, I presume.
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drew
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response 17 of 211:
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Nov 11 03:23 UTC 2000 |
Works for me.
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aaron
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response 18 of 211:
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Nov 11 04:41 UTC 2000 |
They should have let an unbiased Jeb Bush appointee rule on the issue,
obviously.
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bdh3
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response 19 of 211:
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Nov 11 05:09 UTC 2000 |
One of the major problems with 'exit polls' is similar to that of
pre-election polls - people lie. They lie for a number of different
reasons not the least of which is to screw up polls. That is why in
addition to the statistical 'error' based on the sample size you have to
figure out clever ways of gathering data.
A clear example of this might be to ask a WW-II vet who he fought under.
If Patton had as many troops as claimed to have served under him the war
woulda been over a lot sooner. (Also consider the number of public
figures (some member of congress I even seem to recall?) who claim to
have served in viet-nam.) These are examples of 'polls' as well and
illustrate the problem.
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senna
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response 20 of 211:
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Nov 11 05:20 UTC 2000 |
Lying is one of the things margin of error is designed to cover.
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whatfor
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response 21 of 211:
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Nov 11 06:38 UTC 2000 |
#19: Let's say I want the Democrats, voted for the Democrats, and am
asked by an exit pollster how I voted. It would be in my interest to
tell the truth because exit polls showing victory for Democrats --
especially a large margin -- may demoralize supporters of Republicans
and make them less likely to vote. It may not be a large effect, but
it's there. In addition, even if the networks do not broadcast exit
polls while most polls are still open in a state, you can get those
numbers from the Internet (ie: drudgereport.com) very early in the day.
So there is a selfish reason for voters to tell exit pollsters the
truth. In addition, people have less problems lying before they vote
than two minutes after the fact. That is why exit polls are extremely
accurate.
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rcurl
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response 22 of 211:
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Nov 11 06:51 UTC 2000 |
Early in the day? The polls have to close and ballots counted before
any numbers are available.
I don't lie or tell the truth - I tell them I voted a secret ballot.
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whatfor
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response 23 of 211:
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Nov 11 07:04 UTC 2000 |
You can get exit poll results (as they are being compiled) during the
day from various sites on the Internet. They proved to be pretty
accurate.
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rcurl
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response 24 of 211:
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Nov 11 07:15 UTC 2000 |
That's a pretty liberal use of the term "accurate".
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