Grex Health Conference

Item 5: Where to get warts removed?

Entered by scott on Sun Nov 26 17:22:12 1995:

I'm interested in getting some warts removed.  I had some laser burned off
last fall, and a few remnants have since grown back a bit.  I've also got some
tiny ones that got missed.  Who in the Ann Arbor area does good cheap wart
removal?  I'd like to get them frozen off, which take a few visits to do the
job right.  I'm going to have to pay for this myself, since it is too low for
my deductible, so I'd like it to be cheap.  Freezing warts w/ liquid nitrogen
is pretty low-tech, too, so just about any doctor can handle it w/o a lot of
equipment.

Recommendations?
52 responses total.

#1 of 52 by scott on Sun Nov 26 17:24:00 1995:

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I don't have a regular doctor, so I can't
just go to my "usual health care practitioner".  I'd also like to avoid the
usual "office visit" charge, which adds up quick on repeat visits (which only
take about 10 minutes).


#2 of 52 by rcurl on Sun Nov 26 19:32:23 1995:

Have you tried the topical remedies, like Wart-Off (tm)? 

The Merck Manual says, in regard to treatment, "No treatment is entirely
satisfactory. Though warts can be removed, the virus often remains and and
the warts recur at the same or different sites. Though many patients insist
on treatment, it is sometimes better to leave single inconspicuous warts
alone". 

The Merck Manual also mentions psychotherapy, or "hexing"! They say: "In
young children, suggestion accompanied by impressive but meaningless
manipulations, such as painting the lesions or touching them with unusual
objects or exposing them to heat lamps, is often remarkably successful,
probably due to conincidental regression of the wart."

Well, being a no-nonsense, rational scientific person, I tried this on our
daughter's warts when she was younger and was getting them on her feet
(painful for walking). I explained to her that warts could be cured if a
*bright, shiny new penny* were applied to the wart for *exactly 60
seconds*. (I could not go so far as to invent some mumbo-jumbo to intone.)
My wife was astonished that I would even contenance such a treatment but,
having great faith in the Merck Manual, I tried it - and it worked! 



#3 of 52 by scott on Sun Nov 26 20:41:56 1995:

Compound-W, etc., takes a long time to work and requires daily application.
I'd rather get them frozen (sort of painful) since it works and requires
little in the way of maintenance.


#4 of 52 by mcpoz on Sun Nov 26 22:29:06 1995:

A friend of mine took his daughter in for a wart on the foot.  The nurse
"diagnosed" the condition, drew a circle around it with a red pen, and then
the doctor came in and painted it with a high price version of compound W.

Somewhat miffed, my friend asked if he could see the insurance bill.  The
doctor's fees were $360 and were listed as "chemo-surgery."  Of course the
office call fee was added to the $360.  The Doctor saw the patient for 5-10
minutes. 

This person complained to his firm's insurance representative, but was told
to not worry about it.


#5 of 52 by rcurl on Mon Nov 27 07:19:06 1995:

For only $250 (each) I will treat your warts with my penny treatment. No
guarantee, of course, as its efficacy depends upon your mental state, which
I cannot control.


#6 of 52 by n8nxf on Mon Nov 27 21:46:15 1995:

"Freeze mist", used by electronics types to find thermal problems in 
electronic circuits, will go down to about -70C.


#7 of 52 by scott on Mon Nov 27 22:56:16 1995:

Do It Yourself wart removal is a bit difficult.  At one point I tried using
a soldering iron on one of them, but I wasn't able to apply enough because
of the pain factor.

Any realistic suggestions, anyone?


#8 of 52 by n8nxf on Tue Nov 28 15:15:42 1995:

A guy here at work swears by banana peels.  Just tape them to the wart
before you put on your socks.


#9 of 52 by scott on Tue Nov 28 17:05:25 1995:

I think that would make it hard to type.


#10 of 52 by rcurl on Wed Nov 29 05:59:18 1995:

Henley's Formulas (1927 - republished by Avenel Books 1979) gives
two wart treatment formulas. One might be hard to find ingredients
for, but the other is a mixture of sulfur, acetic acid (glacial,
presumably) and glycerine. Personally, I'd suggest trying Wart-Off,
or equivalent, at least to give it a try.


#11 of 52 by popcorn on Fri Dec 1 03:56:28 1995:

This response has been erased.



#12 of 52 by katie on Sat Dec 2 14:02:13 1995:

I don't know about cost, but my family's longtime dermatologist is
Dr cameron in Ann Arbor. I had warts removed as a child; I think he
was the doc who did it.

When I was in my twenties, I had warts on my a couple of my fingers,
which even altered my fingerprints. They went away by themselves, but
it took a few years.


#13 of 52 by mcpoz on Sat Dec 2 19:04:29 1995:

Did your fingerprints remain altered after the warts were history?
(Maybe we have something here)


#14 of 52 by headdoc on Sat Dec 2 19:35:45 1995:

katie, I have used Cameron also and he was very good, diagnosing a head itch
no one else could and then treating it.  I called him recently to set up an
appointment and heard he had retired.  I wonder if it's the same Cameron (on
Huron Parkway??)


#15 of 52 by popcorn on Sun Dec 3 16:21:03 1995:

This response has been erased.



#16 of 52 by zook on Mon Dec 4 15:07:14 1995:

Theoretically speaking, one could try topical wart-off stuff (salicylic
acid) combined with gentle shaving after a bath (softens the callus -->
scrape off as much as you can comfortably do).  You can use emory boards
or a pumice stone (should be available at the pharmacy).  I would not
recommend home use of liquid nitrogen, at least not without talking with
your doctor.  Self-application of liquid nitrogen is possible, but
requires a stern will and could lead to complications (or failure of
treatment) if used over- or under-zealously.  I definitely would not
recommend home "cooking" kinds of treatment.
 Most warts will disappear spontaneously in about two years.  The
immunology of warts is quite confusing.  The home remedies/witch doctor
approaches may work by stimulating immune responses (the biopsychosocial
model, er, the neuroimmunopharmacological model, er, you get the picture).


#17 of 52 by scott on Sat Dec 9 13:38:21 1995:

This item now linked to health conference


#18 of 52 by tempest on Sat Dec 9 23:32:36 1995:

i had a seed wart on my finger and when I was a litle girl I remeber my aunt
telling me if I stole a persons old dish rag and rubbed it onthe wart and
burried it when the rag was buried for a while the wart goes away.  soooo I
snitched her dishrag..cause you have to sneak it....and rubbed real hard and
burried it in her yard..course I had grimy hands too...and  it went
away...sooooo the moral grimy hands feel lots better than a soldering iron
on a wart.....*smile*


#19 of 52 by scg on Sun Dec 10 03:14:55 1995:

I don't believe the connection between the dish rag being burried and the wart
going away,for obvious reasons, but is there a connection between dirty hands
and a wart going away?  I wouldn't think so, but I guess it's possible.  OTOH,
maybe the wart just went away on its own.


#20 of 52 by odakim on Sun Dec 10 05:17:55 1995:

re:18 I have heard of that..it is the power of belief once again.  I think
Stormy was teasing about the grimy hands being a dead give away for her aunt
to know she believedthe tale.  right?


#21 of 52 by eeyore on Sun Dec 10 08:01:27 1995:

when i used to swim , i got a ton of warts on the bottom of my feet...went in
a few times to the dr. to have them frozen off.  i REALLY don't reccomend that
particular idea when you have 18 on a single foot!!!!  i got sick of that
(and was going out-of-country for 2 months), so i got a bottle of one of the
cheaper wart-removers (and i can't remember now what it was, but i'll see if
i can find it), whch removed them in 2 weeks flat.  :)  btw, the pads 
(like dr.scholl's medicated) work ok....but they itch like crazy!!!!!


#22 of 52 by rcurl on Sun Dec 10 08:51:30 1995:

Steve, I would not be inclined to believe it either, but the Merck
Manual says that psychotherapy is "often remarkably successful", and
I tried it out, and it worked. Didn't you believe me earlier in this
item? You have to use a *new* penny.


#23 of 52 by bubu on Sun Dec 10 17:43:11 1995:

I was a diver in high school eeyore and i had planters warts also...
mine were so bad that they had to be cut out...ughhhhh
not a pretty sight...


#24 of 52 by eeyore on Mon Dec 11 01:44:32 1995:

i actually cut a coupole of them out myself...nededless to say, i didn't
realize what i was doing at the time.....:)


#25 of 52 by rickyb on Mon Dec 11 17:43:31 1995:

Warts are caused by the human papilloma virus.  Some of these viri are
suspicious in certain skin cancers.
        Chemo-cutery, cryo-cautery, elctro-cautery, thermo-cautery, etc, are
all considered forms of surgical treatment and all use the same CPT code
(Current Procedural Terminology) as assigned by the AMA.  Therefore, fees will
be the same for a brief visit, or a long one, for the same # of warts (CPT
defines 1 lesion, 2nd lesion, each add'l lesion up to 15).
        In the last few years, the FDA changed the forlumations of all wart
chemistry and allowed them to be sold OTC.  Combination products are no longer
accepted/approved.
        In my experience, visualization and the "psychotherapy" as described
above can work.  But, also in my experience, most warts do not go away by
themselves, as the books tell us.  
        Warts on the _bottom_ of your feet (plantar surface...therefore,
plantars warts) are usually more resistant to treatment because walking on
them causes you to invaginate the skin and the wart seems deeper.  The skin
is also much thicker than elsewhere on the body.
        Warts _disrupt the normal skin lines_ (dermatoglyphics), which either
go around the wart, or stop at the edge and resume at the other side.  There
is often an "orange peel" texture and people talk about seeing "black roots".
What they are actually looking at are the ends of the rete pegs from the
dermis.  They appear black if the capillaries bleed, white if they don't.
        My experience is that chemical cautery works the most reliably, with
the least pain/complications but can be a time consuming process.  I don't
know what everyone else does, but _I_ do not charge for each office visit on
the same day I charge for a treatment (except in the case of an extended visit
for such as an initial examination, or consult on another problem, etc). 
Nevertheless, medical care can be costly and a deductible can be reached
quickly with wart treatment.
        If you have insurance, and a deductible, you might want to try the OTC
stuff until the first of the year, then get professional help.  You'll have
a new deductible to meet in 1996 and, once met, you'll have the insurance
available for any medical needs for the rest of the year.

        [NOTE:  I do not suggest attempting any form of treatment without
consulting a medical professional first.  Proper diagnosis is important in
the succesful treatment of any health problem.]

you can always call me at 313.971.7177 for questions.  phone answered 24hrs
by service if i'm not there.                    good luck



#26 of 52 by popcorn on Tue Dec 12 14:21:05 1995:

This response has been erased.



#27 of 52 by bruin on Tue Dec 12 19:48:02 1995:

No, Scott doesn't have to worry about getting cervical cancer.  All he has
to worry about is prostate cancer, testicular cancer, and penile cancer, plus
the other types of cancer that are applicable to both sexes.


#28 of 52 by scott on Tue Dec 12 23:39:28 1995:

<wince!>


#29 of 52 by zook on Wed Dec 13 02:25:14 1995:

Re 26  I think what Valerie means is that cervical cancer is *caused* by
HPV, whereas the others mentioned are probably not.  At least, so go the
current theories.  Actually, Scott would have to worry - cervical cancer
is felt to be an STD (because of the HPV connection), so he would have to
worry about passing it to a mate if he were to be infected.  By the way,
the subtypes of HPV that cause common warts are probably *not* the same as
those causing cervical cancer.


#30 of 52 by popcorn on Wed Dec 13 03:52:30 1995:

This response has been erased.



#31 of 52 by odakim on Wed Dec 13 06:00:24 1995:

scary......


#32 of 52 by scott on Wed Dec 13 12:27:08 1995:

Makes some sense, since it is a growth of things...


#33 of 52 by zook on Wed Dec 13 13:48:13 1995:

(Always wear your parentheses)


#34 of 52 by mcpoz on Thu Dec 14 02:24:00 1995:

I thought that cancers were thought to be related to viral infections for a
long time now.  (At least, some cancers).  Any medical types who can shed some
light on that?


#35 of 52 by chelsea on Fri Dec 15 02:28:42 1995:

Cancer is very much a catch-all term for a multitude of diseases. Leukemia
is a type of cancer.  Lymphoma is a type of cancer.  Solid tumors are
often cancer but they can also be benign.  The differential diagnosis is
based on whether the tumor is invasive and destructive and how it grows. 
I don't think anyone involved with this research is expecting a single
breakthrough "cure", more like a better understanding of what causes each
type of cancer. Some will be genetic but not hereditary, some will be
familial, some will be caused by environmental factors, some will be
caused by a combination of different biological events, and some will just
happen in the life of cells undergoing change for unknown and
unpredictable reasons. 

There are some fascinating case studies where whole tribes tend to get the
same deadly cancer, and when the research is done they find it's not
hereditary but rather the result of a traditional meal where foods are
steamed together creating a powerful carcinogen.  The tribe is told why
there is so much illness and death.  The researchers leave.  The tribe
goes right back to eating the same meal. 

So I'm not even sure when we have the answers we'll be ready for 
the cure.


#36 of 52 by mcpoz on Fri Dec 15 02:45:57 1995:

anyone olde enought to remember when "Margarine" was purchased white and you
had to mix yellow dye with it to make it look like butter?  Well that yellow
dye was Methyl Yellow - now known to be a powerful carcinogen.  


#37 of 52 by odakim on Fri Dec 15 03:52:03 1995:

Happy anniversary chelsea...:)
Marc...I heard about that once..shiver....How awful??!!!!!!


#38 of 52 by rcurl on Fri Dec 15 06:57:18 1995:

I used to love helping my mother color the margarine by kneading the
dye into the white margarine. I think Marc may know the history of this
better than I do, but I just looked up Methyl Yellow in two editions
of the Merck Index:

5th  Edition (1940): "Use: Coloring fats and butter......"

9th  Edition (1976): "Caution: FDA has declared this substance a carcinogen."


#39 of 52 by mcpoz on Fri Dec 15 11:02:01 1995:

My brother and I used to fight to see who got to knead the dye into the white
margarine.  It was in a clear plastic bag with a "pill" of dye which you could
break by pressing (without tearing the outer plastic bag).  Then you squeezed
the plastic bag to knead in the color.  

I believe the dye (methyl yellow) is implicated in colon cancers, which my
father, his uncle, and my grandfather all died of.      

By the way, the reason margarine was sold white was because of the dairy lobby
which took steps to prevent the "substitute" from being marketed in a form
that looked like butter.



#40 of 52 by odakim on Sat Dec 16 06:52:11 1995:

Oh Marc...How awful...I feel deeply sad for your losses.....
at my fathers death in 1972 an autospy revealed cancer of the prostate.
i hate cancer...it recently  took the life of our dear librarian and  boss
on Thanksgiving.....over the centuries there has been so many things that we
have since learned causes cancer...how sad...


#41 of 52 by mcpoz on Sat Dec 16 12:19:16 1995:

Yeah, you never know exactly what caused something like that - could be
genetics.  The methyl yellow is a leading contender in my mind, however.

Both colon cancer and prostate cancer are easily detectable at early stages
and all these should be checked for regularly.  Prostate cancer was readily
"curable" or at least stoppable 30 years ago if detected early.   They use
a platinum based drug (this is one of the medications which has caused
controversy because marijuana has been found to relieve the side effects).


#42 of 52 by zook on Sun Dec 17 00:58:56 1995:

Umm...  they use hormonal drugs (anti-androgens to be precise) - if drugs
are to be used.  THC and its derivatives are strong anti-emetics
(anti-nausea) - regardless of cause.  But, they are not the strongest drugs in
the anti-emetic category, which is one reason they are not often used.


#43 of 52 by odakim on Mon Dec 18 19:30:48 1995:

My father was a alcoholic (one reson i don't drink at all) he also had severe
veneral diseases in hi teens and 20's..before he maried my mother.  I sort
of believe this had something to do with it too.  My children  all three of
them  have attention deficit disorder ADD and it is suggested that having an
alcoholic father contribuuted to it..My husband also took drugs and drank
before and possibly after we were married during the  time I conceived.
I KNOW I never drank, took illegal drugs, and was very careful with what over
the counter drugs I took..in other words..I don't take tylenol unless i REALLY
need to andI don't use anything but a hankie with i have a runny nose..in
other words none of that medicine to clear up sinus and other things.
Oh in our small community there are hundreds of children with ADD...I spend
alot ofthe time at the library hugging and reassuring a young mother who has
hchildren with ADD.  But I think there is way too many children with it.



#44 of 52 by rcurl on Mon Dec 18 20:22:47 1995:

I don't know much about ADD...but I would think that in addition to
possible drug effects, "lifestyle" may play a role. In particular,
growing up glued to the TV set. Has this been confirmed, or at least
studied? I can imagine, with all of that attention-getting noise and
motion, real life may be hard to pay attention to.


#45 of 52 by rickyb on Tue Dec 19 21:42:11 1995:

Most "common" skin warts are caused by the papova virus (one of the human
pappiloma group).  At least one pathologist I know who specializes in these
pathogens (HPV's) is very suspicious that even the papova virus can mutate
into a cancerous form.  He recommends excison of warts before they have a
chance to mutate and/or spread.



#46 of 52 by odakim on Wed Dec 20 18:15:27 1995:

no..Rane...most of the mothers of these children are the kind that talk to
thier children, go places with them and read to them....All of my children
score with a high IQ.  My eldest child was reading at 3 years of age..each
one is gifted in a specific area....and we didn't own a TV set when they were
small.  I have wondered if.....James..17, O- blood type, Jennifer 15, A+ blood
type and Julie 10, A- blood type that this had something to do with it...my
worst for ADD is Julie with A- then James with O- and finally Jenneifer with
the least symptoms and no hyperactivity and impulsiveness with her A+..I have
O+ and their father has A+...is is suspected my father had O-..but the
children except for Jennifer had ABO incompatibility jaundice..Julie being
more severe than James....after birth....
I f someone would just do a study of parents medical and birth history for
their children maybe we can find out for sure why these children have this.


#47 of 52 by omni on Sun Dec 24 04:55:52 1995:

Are we forgetting so soon that cancer can be killed dead? 

 The score still is Omni 1
                    Cancer 0
 This Christmas will mark my 1 yr anniversary of being declared cancer free.
9 months off the chemo, I still feel fine, I'm working 4 days a week, 12 hours
a day and I can eat just about anything, oh, and I have Beethovan's hair ;)


#48 of 52 by otter on Sun Dec 24 07:26:15 1995:

<otter goes blonde, puts on a short pleated skirt, grabs a megaphone, and
becomes omni's cheering section>
Seriously, the world is a much better place with you in it, omni. Stick
around for a long, long time.


#49 of 52 by bubu on Sun Dec 24 15:19:52 1995:

That is awesome Omni.....I can say this not as someone who doesnt know but
as someone who is spending their first Christmas without my mother...She died
this last summer a victim to cancer.....No I am not looking for pity but I
can understand your joy in knowing it has gone away, i can also understand
your joy in not having to withstand chemo for the last 9 months...you hang
in there...and don't let it come back...


#50 of 52 by headdoc on Sun Dec 24 22:14:39 1995:

Let's look forward to many more Christmas's together on Grex, Omni.


#51 of 52 by omni on Mon Dec 25 16:15:03 1995:

 Amen to that.


#52 of 52 by odakim on Wed Dec 27 05:57:24 1995:

I am glad lyou are one more person who beat cancer...YES!!!!!!!! HURRAY!!!!!!
My boss at the library didn't....each time there is one victory it gives
people hope...something to cling to....Honey hugs omni tight


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