Grex Books Conference

Item 5: The Grex Book Item

Entered by hawkeye on Thu Aug 1 13:58:44 1991:

Use this item to discuss whatever you might be reading.
 
Tell us what you liked and didn't like!
297 responses total.

#1 of 297 by hawkeye on Thu Aug 1 13:59:55 1991:

Picked up a copy of "Paper Lion" the other day.  This is the story of
George Plimpton time as a rookie at the 1964(?) Detroit Lions training
camp.  Lots of fun, though I'
m sure the language would be a lot bluer than it was here.


#2 of 297 by jes on Thu Aug 1 14:40:03 1991:

I'm reading "The Wallet of Kau Ling". Anyone else ever try that?


#3 of 297 by mythago on Thu Aug 1 18:18:58 1991:

I'm still working on NAME OF THE ROSE, which is good if you don't mind
being made to feel like an intellectual midget.  "Hi, I'm Umberto
Eco and I know +everything+.  Here, let me show you."


#4 of 297 by mcnally on Thu Aug 1 19:30:33 1991:

  Still reading "V." by Thomas Pynchon..  I keep hitting a brick wall.
This happened to me once before, earlier in the book, and it took me a 
while to get around it.  Once I got past, though, it was smooth sailing
for about 100 pages..  If that's the case here, I should make it clear
to the finish this time.

  Also, I've borrowed my roommate's "Complete Works of Oscar Wilde"
so I can read some of his stuff that I hadn't read before.


#5 of 297 by ty on Fri Aug 2 03:57:44 1991:

Just finished "Pillar's of the Earth" by Ken Follet.  I thought it was
excellent.


#6 of 297 by steve on Fri Aug 2 04:19:47 1991:

   Started _Many Sleepless Nights_, a book about organ transplants, their
effect on people, and how society views the whole subject.  I think it
will be a very intersting book.


#7 of 297 by banzai on Fri Aug 2 06:00:11 1991:

Just finished _The Difference Engine_ by Willam Gibson and Bruce Sterling,
it wasn't worth it, although I did love the idea and what they did at the 
end of the book.  Gibson, get back to _Neuromancer_ quality!

Just started _Wildcards_ good, but looks comic-bookish and suffers from the
1001 sequels syndrome.


#8 of 297 by mythago on Fri Aug 2 06:49:36 1991:

NAME OF THE ROSE was excellent (MUCH better than the movie), though I
preferred FOUCAULT'S PENDULUM.


#9 of 297 by bad on Fri Aug 2 07:23:04 1991:

I just finished _Tehanu_. I hadn't realized Le Guin had written another
Earthsea book. Read the first three when I was seven or eight (and again 
later). I dug those out and read them again earlier this week. The last 
resembles the earlier only somewhat. A decent book, if a bit hung up
in theme and message rather than story.
Now I'm going to read _The Cuckoo's Egg_ by Cliff Stohl. Should be 
interesting :)


#10 of 297 by mcnally on Fri Aug 2 07:47:23 1991:

 re #9:  The Cuckoo's Egg is much better than I had feared before reading
it (and is, in fact, pretty good) but it has really attracted more attention
than is good for it..


#11 of 297 by hawkeye on Fri Aug 2 14:46:56 1991:

I've decided to try "Ulysses" by James Joyce.  I figure after getting
through "Atlas Shrugged", this should be a piece of cake!


#12 of 297 by keats on Fri Aug 2 17:20:29 1991:

<keats makes that funny boat-engine noise through the lips denoting
 extreme amusement>

er, i think you're in for a surprise, hawkeye. let me give you a hint.
joyce once commented that he spent ten years writing _ulysses_, so he
thought the reader could spend at least that much time reading it.

he wasn't kidding.


#13 of 297 by mcnally on Fri Aug 2 20:41:30 1991:

  Maybe he should warm up with "Gravity's Rainbow".  So, does anyone here
actually claim to have read "Finnegan's Wake"?  I hope not..


#14 of 297 by keats on Fri Aug 2 21:36:23 1991:

i haven't bothered yet, but i've been through joyce's other stuff. i'm 
sure i'll get to it in the next year or two...i specialize in other
areas, so i can't really make it a priority. i'm told it's more obscure
than _ulysses_, but otherwise, much like it. except perhaps among hardcore
joyceans, i think the consensus with the literati is that _ulysses_ is
better. (obscurity is a plus when you're a specialist...)


#15 of 297 by mcnally on Sat Aug 3 00:40:45 1991:

 (have you even looked at Finnegan's Wake?  I've read parts of Ulysses 
and while I won't claim that I understand it fully at least it's readable.
In Finnegan's Wake most of the sentences don't make any sense (at least
not in English.  If you have a massive Joycean -> English concordance,
perhaps they're decipherable.)
 
  It's always been my understanding that Ulysses is supposed to be better,
too.  I haven't even read all of Dubliners, though.)


#16 of 297 by brandon on Sat Aug 3 03:07:18 1991:

The last major thing I finished reading was also *The Name of the Rose.*
Whew! I have to admit that I did skip several pages at a time when it got
down to discussions of philosophy. But very good. Yes, better than the movie,
though now I think I'm going to rent the movie again to compare it more
closely with the book.

I wonder how much of it was Adso of Melk's writing and how much was Eco's.

Right now I'm at my in-between-books stage where I read anthologies or re-
read other things until another big project catches my eye.


#17 of 297 by jenny on Sat Aug 3 03:44:37 1991:

STeve, let me know how _Many Sleepless Nights_ comes out.  It's an interesting
subject to me since I've known several people who have had kidney transplants
and a couple of people who have had pancreas transplants.  It is also
interesting how differnet segments of society view transplants.  My husband
used to  lecture to high schoolers about signing up to donate organs after
death and there are some people (adults too) who believe that if you have it on
the back of your license that you'll donate organs, that the E.M.T.s will not
try as hard to revive you or save you from death.  Movies like Body Parts don't
help matters either.  There are people who will believe that plot.


#18 of 297 by steve on Sat Aug 3 04:42:51 1991:

   (thats incredible.  Yes, I'll let you know how it comes out).


#19 of 297 by mcnally on Sat Aug 3 08:33:51 1991:

  A couple nights ago, for a quick-and-dirty read, I sat down and read
"The Killer Inside Me" by Jim Thompson.  It was pretty pulpy, but
entertaining.  I can see why he has a small cult following.


#20 of 297 by mythago on Sat Aug 3 14:43:13 1991:

(Um, all of it was Eco's writing, I believe.)
  
_Tehanu_ was terrible.  LeGuin has gone from the original Tao philosophy
that powered the other Earthsea books to pseudofeminist maternalism.
(You know--the sexes should be equal, even though men are evil and
warlike, while women are soft and nurturing....)


#21 of 297 by jdg on Sat Aug 3 22:02:03 1991:

Re: Finnegan's Wake.  Two hints:  1) If you open the book at the front
you're looking at the middle of the novel, and 2) It makes sense if heard,
but not read.


#22 of 297 by mew on Sun Aug 4 18:12:02 1991:

Hey mike!  I keep getting stuck on Gravity's Rainbow.  Which is odd because
I really DO like the writing in it.  Hmm.
I am reading "The Dharma Bums" by Jack Kerouac.  I have been enjoying
reading other things besides his "On the Road", though I will admit that
his writing style is pretty consistent so far.  It is a nice depiction
of a period of time and a mindset though.
I also finished not too long ago "The Quiet Pools" by Mike Kube-McDowell
.  He is a friend of mine who happens to be up for a HUGO award for best
novel this year for that book.  And the nice thing is I really enjoyed
it a lot.  I reccomend it.  Good read and raises some interesting
questions.
I want to get some more Milan Kundera or Josef Sckvorecky (?) to read


#23 of 297 by krj on Sun Aug 4 22:46:56 1991:

Let's see, whenever I'm not wasting away my life on line, I've been reading
TOO HOT TO HANDLE, Frank Close's account of the Cold Fusion story, and 
THE FAR AWAY MAN, aYellowthread Street mystery by William Marshall.
 
The Close book is entertaining but badly edited; there is a lot of 
repetition!  The most interesting tidbit in the book is an account of 
the *last* time someone discovered cold fusion, back in the 1920s...
at the time it was sought as a source for cheap helium for airships, and
Ernest Rutherford was a leader among the debunkers.
 
I have loved all the previous books in the Marshall series (this is about
#8), but this one is somewhat weak.  Marshall's formula disperses his
detectives among three problems, one of which is very grim and the other
two are pretty funny.  The funny ones wrap up about 2/3rds of the way
through the book, freeing up those detectives to provide added firepower
in what usually becomes a very violent climax.  (I don't suppose anyone
here would have read Marshall's new book, THE NEW YORK DETECTIVE, set in 
1880?)


#24 of 297 by jennie on Mon Aug 5 04:18:13 1991:

I recently read _Xenocide_, which is the third book in Orson Scott Card's
series that began with _Ender's Game_.  It's not as good as the other two,
I think, but it was a good read, anyway.  That man can WRITE!
 
Griz


#25 of 297 by polygon on Mon Aug 5 06:14:57 1991:

Re 24.  I'm looking forward to that one.  I very much like Ender's Game and
Speaker for the Dead.


#26 of 297 by bad on Mon Aug 5 06:41:34 1991:

re 25. If you're nice to me, I'll let you borrow mine...


#27 of 297 by joni on Mon Aug 5 07:18:50 1991:

  Is it out in paper back?


#28 of 297 by bad on Mon Aug 5 09:29:47 1991:

Just came out a few weeks ago in hardcover...be a year or so, I'm sure.


#29 of 297 by jennie on Mon Aug 5 14:06:59 1991:

Yes, I spent the *gasp* $21.95 to get it in hardcover, read it, and then
gave it to my sister as her bridesmaid's gift.  I told her I had already
read it and she said she would have worried about me if I hadn't.  :)
 
Griz


#30 of 297 by mew on Mon Aug 5 14:25:24 1991:

One of my favorite sf authors is Octavia Butler.  If you haven't read
any of her books do yourself a favor!  I love everything I;ve read
of hers so far but I reccomend starting with her Xenogenisis series.
Dawn, Imago, and... forget the other.


#31 of 297 by hawkeye on Mon Aug 5 15:41:57 1991:

Up to about page 60 in Ulysses.  Only another 600 to go...  I'm hoping the
dirty parts start soon...

I have only been defeated once by a book.  I tried to read "The Bible" once
waaaay back in grade school.  Couldn't do it.  Since then I've always finished
everything I've started - no matter how bad.  My only concern is if I'm
actually going to read it all without reading something else in the middle
of it.


#32 of 297 by furs on Mon Aug 5 16:04:00 1991:

I'm still reading Midnight, by Dean Koontz.  I also have another Koontz book
waiting by.  Whispers.


#33 of 297 by arabella on Mon Aug 5 21:06:13 1991:

I've been working on the Martha Grimes mystery "The Old Silent" for a
while now.  I seem to go for weeks not picking it up, and then I read 50 
pages or so, and then start wasting time with magazines again.  I don't
know why, since I've read at least five other Grimes mysteries each in
fairly short order.


#34 of 297 by bad on Mon Aug 5 22:03:50 1991:

Cockoo's Egg was okay.
Kinda went in tired circle for the last half, though.


#35 of 297 by mythago on Tue Aug 6 13:39:52 1991:

If you like Octavia Butler, pick up _Wild Seed_.  Not part of a series,
but a fairly good book.


#36 of 297 by popcorn on Thu Aug 8 02:41:52 1991:

This response has been erased.



#37 of 297 by polygon on Thu Aug 8 03:30:32 1991:

A friend of Janice's loaned us a book-on-tape of "Seeing Voices," read by
the author, Oliver Sacks.  Sacks did not look or sound ANYTHING like I
expected.  (His appearance, I mean, based on accompanying photo.)

Anyway, the book is wonderful, and I recommend it.  Everything that Sacks has
written is extremely fascinating.  He's a neurologist who writes about people
with various deficits: in "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat," he
described people with various kinds of neurological disorders and what they
tell us about us.  "Seeing Voices" is about the deaf, and though it consists
of a combination of history and neurology, is extremely moving.


#38 of 297 by jes on Thu Aug 8 14:52:32 1991:

I just turned my wife on to Orson Scott Card with "The Folk of the Fringe".
Anyone else read that?



#39 of 297 by jennie on Thu Aug 8 18:38:27 1991:

Yep.  Good book.
 
Griz


#40 of 297 by mythago on Fri Aug 9 18:47:33 1991:

I just finished _Those Who Hunt the Night_, by Hambly.  Don't bother.
(Instead, read George R. R. Martin's _Fevre Dream_.)
  
I have Student Trial Advocacy Program tryouts next Thursday, so I'm
currently reading lots of books on cross-examination.


#41 of 297 by jennie on Fri Aug 9 20:41:25 1991:

The biggest problem with _Those who Hunt the Night_ was the fact that when
the name of the killer was revealed, the reader said:  "Huh?"  His name
had been mentioned only once before in the book, and of course no one had
any idea who he was.
 
Griz


#42 of 297 by mythago on Sat Aug 10 10:41:58 1991:

No, that's not the _biggest_ problem, though you're right....Hambly's
"Victorian" "history" is terrible, the characters' speech (with the
exceptions of Grippen and Bully Joe) is patheticallly anachronistic,
and I'm sorry, but even in 1907 people were still quite sexist.


#43 of 297 by ba on Tue Aug 13 22:45:22 1991:

I'm reading _Item_#8_.  Just finished it, in fact.  I couldn't put
it down.  I'm thinking about loaning it out, but I don't
know if it'll be returned to me afterwords.


#44 of 297 by steve on Wed Aug 14 01:01:12 1991:

   What, pray tell, is _Item #8_?


#45 of 297 by morel on Wed Aug 14 02:35:54 1991:

You're kidding, right STeve?


#46 of 297 by steve on Wed Aug 14 03:01:32 1991:

   Oh farkle.  I thought it meant a *book*.

   Rule #13,749.1: Never confer on a computer when brain dead.


#47 of 297 by ty on Thu Aug 15 04:25:57 1991:

Anyone read that new Tom Clancy book yet?


#48 of 297 by mew on Thu Aug 15 20:11:14 1991:

Actually Wild Seed is sort of part of a series.  Octavia Butler wrote other
books with the same character in them.  Only one I can think of.
I'll try to hunt up the name.  I find Butler
s
argh.  Butler's treatment of Aliens thoughtful.  In the Xenogenesis
series the aliens don't exactly torment the humans and the same is true
of her excellent short story Blood Games.  It just takes thought to
read her.  You definately don't get easy Good Guys Bad Guys in her
writing.


#49 of 297 by mythago on Fri Aug 16 11:59:00 1991:

Really?  I only saw the one book, and it's not part of a "series"
(at least it's not a sequel to anything).


#50 of 297 by ba on Tue Aug 20 01:24:54 1991:

_Item_#8_ is by Isaac Asimov.  It later, loosely became the movie
_Short_Circuit_ with Ally Sheedy.


#51 of 297 by popcorn on Tue Aug 20 03:53:32 1991:

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#52 of 297 by bad on Tue Aug 20 07:35:43 1991:

I just read the last Amber novel (so far) by Roger Zelazny, _Knight of
Shadows_. I re-read the first three over the last few days, and went out
and bought this one tonight (beating the buzzer at Borders by about a 
minute).
Anyway, another good book. 
It reads a little funny, though. I'm glad to have some of the damned loose
ends tied up, finally, but these cliffhangers are really starting to bug me.
I remember now why I waited so long to buy this one. Major cliffhangers are
quite depressing if the resolution is not forthcoming for a couple of years.
Fast pacing, decent storytelling, a little heavy on the complexity at 
times, but very enjoyable...then wham! another end-of-book. This was a 
little more resolving than the rest, but I hate just cutting off like that.

Now I'll have to read them all again when the next one comes out, dammit.


#53 of 297 by danr on Tue Aug 20 11:21:07 1991:

I just finished reading _Laughable Loves_ by Milan Kundera.  It's a
collection of short stories on men-women relationships.  Some of the
stories were good, but others were kind of depressing.

The book I am reading now is _Workplace 2000_.  This book has some
interesting insights on how work is changing, and what people should
expect over th next ten years.  I'd recommend it to just about
everyone (especially when you can check it out of the library for
nothing).


#54 of 297 by ba on Thu Aug 22 00:34:13 1991:

_Great_Cat_Tales_ about a dozen and a half short stories about cats.
Runyon, Twain, Wodehouse, Kipling, (Those kind of guys.)


#55 of 297 by fogel on Fri Aug 23 04:33:20 1991:

Things Fall Apart, Chinua Achebe  Good, but more loosely written than I would
have liked.  Dubliners, James Joyce I found interesting in the descriptions
of the characters, pretty depressing, however.   Red Storm Rising- just
started.  Portable Darkness, selected Crowley writings- don't know
what to think yet.  Native Son, Just started.



#56 of 297 by bad on Tue Aug 27 09:50:07 1991:

I just went book-crazy at Afterwords (hey - nice hardcovers for $4?)
Currently reading Orson Scott Card's Wyrms. Has some definite similarity
to portions of Xenocide.


#57 of 297 by arabella on Sun Sep 8 09:37:45 1991:

Just finished Sara Paretsky's first novel, "Indemnity Only."  Really
quite good, and especially impressive in the light of her novicehood
at the time (I can tell I'm up way past my bedtime when I start using
words like novicehood).  I just started the most recent Sue
Grafton novel, "'H' is for Homicide."


#58 of 297 by bad on Sun Sep 8 10:04:27 1991:

Not bad, that one. Not brilliant, but not bad.


#59 of 297 by bad on Sun Sep 8 10:04:58 1991:

(H, that is)


#60 of 297 by jennie on Sun Sep 8 13:39:18 1991:

I just re-read Margaret Atwood's _Cat's Eye_.  Although I love her writing
in general, this has got to be one of her best.  Definitely something to
check out if you haven't read it before.

Griz


#61 of 297 by mythago on Mon Sep 9 00:51:14 1991:

If you haven't read THE PRICE OF SALT, do so.


#62 of 297 by hawkeye on Mon Sep 9 18:27:46 1991:

Gave up on "Ulysses".  Maybe I'll be in the mood another time.

Picked up a book of short stories by Joe Lansdale called "By Bizarre
Hands".  J.L. is one of the "splatterpunk" authors.  The collection is
not very good, though.


#63 of 297 by mythago on Tue Sep 10 10:12:37 1991:

Try something by Ray Garton, like METHODS OF MADNESS or CRUCIFAX AUTUMN.
Garton is an excellent writer, especially in the 'splatterpunk' genre.


#64 of 297 by mew on Thu Sep 12 14:40:37 1991:

I am Finally finishing Catch 22.  I reread "Invisible Man" by Ralph 
Ellison recently.  I really think it is one of the finest books written.
Fantastic writing, strong important story, .... wow.

Read Handmaid's Tale not too long ago and felt somewhat exhausted
after reading it.  Made me think though.

I am just about to start reading Tom Robbins.  I have had one too many people
tell me he is a must read.  So I am starting with Another Roadside Attraction/.


#65 of 297 by ecl on Sat Sep 14 06:31:51 1991:

I found Catch 22 to be an amazingly funny and sometimes confusing book.



#66 of 297 by mcnally on Sat Sep 14 07:11:53 1991:

  Right now I'm reading a collection of Tolstoy short stories with the
amazingly original title of "Leo Tolstoy:  Short Stories Volume Two"
I love Tolstoy's short stories, especially the itty-bitty anarcho-communist
fables.


#67 of 297 by popcorn on Sun Sep 15 19:25:55 1991:

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#68 of 297 by polygon on Sun Sep 15 20:35:37 1991:

Ah yes, "The Womens' Room."  I found it intensely depressing, and I'm not
sureit offers any grounds for optimism.  <polygon sighs>  I don't agree
that times have changed all that much since the book was written.


#69 of 297 by jenny on Mon Sep 16 05:59:31 1991:

re #64, I agree with yoon "Invisible Man", a lot of Ellison's images
still stick in my mind when that book is mentioned.  Have you read
any of Richard Wright's books?  They're similar in natureut also
biographical, which makes the reader thankful that they didn't have
to experience Wright's childhood.


#70 of 297 by danr on Mon Sep 16 11:35:06 1991:

I am about half-way through _Rivethead_ by Ben Hamper.  It is an
autobiography, and tells the story of growing up in Flint as the son
of an alcoholic, assembly-line worker and then working in the plants
after shuffling through highThis is a very interesting, if
depressing look at factory life.  


#71 of 297 by mythago on Mon Sep 16 16:28:19 1991:

I'm just about to start +Whose Side Are You On? Trying To Be For Labor
When It's Flat On Its Back+ by Geoghegan.
Since it looks like I may be heading for labor law, I'd like to find
out what I'm getting into.


#72 of 297 by hawkeye on Tue Sep 17 13:26:55 1991:

How can you be "heading for" it, when you don't know what it's about?


#73 of 297 by mcnally on Tue Sep 17 20:48:47 1991:

 "may be" is the operative phrase.


#74 of 297 by ecl on Wed Sep 18 06:04:24 1991:

Just this evening I've begun reading _The Catcher in the Rye_



#75 of 297 by bad on Wed Sep 18 07:35:58 1991:

Reading _The great and Secret Show_, by Clive Barker (no relation to Bob...)
Been interesting so far, if a bit slower than most of his books.


#76 of 297 by mythago on Wed Sep 18 09:54:55 1991:

I liked it less than _The Damnation Game_, but more than _Weaveworld_.
Personally I think Barker does much better with horror than with
fantasy, but that's just me.
  
re:72, knowing "what it's about" and "what I'm getting into" are two
different things.
  
However, I highly recommend the Geoghegan book.


#77 of 297 by jdg on Wed Sep 18 15:18:12 1991:

 
I'm recommending "Last Chance to See," by Douglas Adams, et. al.  Adams
is best known for his humorous SF novels, notably the "Hitchiker's
Guide to the Galaxy."

This book is non-fiction.  It is a journal about travels to the corners
of the earth to locate some of the rarest endangered species on the planet.

In many cases, the "host" countries (Indonesia, New Zealand, Zaire, etc.)
have tried to protect and conserve their endangered species via eco-
tourism.  Adams's wicked wit and clear eyes describes the dangers to
these habitats that such changes bring.  Better than poaching, perhaps;
yet not as most conservators would prefer.
 
A wonderful book.  A *must* read.  Fabulous.  Entertaining.  Riveting.
Funny and sad at the same time.

(Disclaimer:  This reviewer is in no way connected with the author
 or publisher.  All models over 18.  Some settling of contents may
 occur during shipping.  Simulated Picture.  If condition persists,
 contact your physician.  Slightly higher in California.)
 


#78 of 297 by mcnally on Wed Sep 18 19:51:07 1991:

  (your actual mileage may vary)


#79 of 297 by bad on Wed Sep 18 22:47:38 1991:

   (void where prohibited by law)


#80 of 297 by keats on Thu Sep 19 03:18:59 1991:

(residents of third-world nations, please add 173% sales tax.)


#81 of 297 by popcorn on Thu Sep 19 04:24:01 1991:

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#82 of 297 by mew on Thu Sep 19 16:57:29 1991:

I am afraid that I tend to agree with polygon.  Things haven't changed
enough since "Women's Room".  (But that is when I am feeling down.
When I am feeling less depressed I say Well things HAVE gotten
better.)  I guess it is a long struggle.
        I loved Catcher in the Rye.  SOmehow I had managed to miss
that in all my various lit classes and tdh loaned it to me.
Since I love most of the Salinger I have read (especially "9 Stories")
it wasn't really a surprise to like it.
        Glad to hear you think I've picked a good Robbins to start with
popcorn.  I'll be sure to enter my reaction if I ever make time
to read again. sigh.


#83 of 297 by arabella on Fri Sep 27 19:48:25 1991:

Hmm, I read the Women's Room when it first came out in paperback
(however long ago that was) and became very depressed.  I guess I'd
have to read it again to see if I think the world has changed much
or at all.  Not sure if I want to inflict that depression on myself 
again, though.  



#84 of 297 by popcorn on Sat Sep 28 05:58:30 1991:

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#85 of 297 by mulberry on Sat Sep 28 18:39:14 1991:

   When I am reading a book, whether wise or silly, it seems to me 
  to be alive and talking to me.


#86 of 297 by bad on Sun Sep 29 21:59:02 1991:

"Read me! READ ME!!!"
"Aaaaigh!"


#87 of 297 by steve on Thu Oct 3 00:38:22 1991:

   I just finished _The RivitHead_ by Ben Hamper.  According to two people
I know who worked in auto factories, he has it down just right.  Fairly
depressing, but funny too.

    Next: _The Reckoning_ a book on the auto companies.


#88 of 297 by bad on Thu Oct 3 01:14:32 1991:

I was just in a bookstore and checked out the books on tape - The shortest
complete book was 15 hours. Damn. That
(ahem)
That's about 3 times as long as it would take to actually read the book.
I think I'll get one the next time I do a long road trip, though.


#89 of 297 by keats on Thu Oct 3 01:26:05 1991:

get the one with pictures. it's shorter.


#90 of 297 by mythago on Thu Oct 3 01:50:36 1991:

And nobody seems to be carrying _Final Exit_.


#91 of 297 by bad on Thu Oct 3 04:48:58 1991:

Give 'em time.
I just wonder, do they read really slowly, or something?
Or do they read dramatically? I've heard some authors who do there own
books are quite lively...


#92 of 297 by jenny on Thu Oct 3 05:40:57 1991:

No, they read at a normal comfortable (to listen to) rate.  The more 
dramatic readers are of course more interesting to listen to, but
even if the reader has a boring, monotone voice, if the plot is
good, you'll stay hooked just like with a regular book.  Jack
Nicholson has read some children's stories from Kippling lately but
these are a disappointment if you're expecting the "Shining" type
of voice.  One thing to note about taped books, it's next to 
impossible to skim or skip ahead to the exciting parts which
is one of the reasons the reading by tape process takes so long.


#93 of 297 by hawkeye on Thu Oct 3 15:37:01 1991:

As a gift, I got a certificate from "Books on Tape".  There are plenty
of books that come under 10 hours.  We rented an Ellery Queen mystery
that was 8 hours long.


#94 of 297 by bad on Thu Oct 3 18:42:06 1991:

Those are the annotated ones, though, usually.


#95 of 297 by hawkeye on Fri Oct 4 14:11:29 1991:

All the ones from "Books on Tape" are full length versions.  Granted, there
are plenty of 18 hours sets, but those are for the really long books like
"The Stand".  


#96 of 297 by bad on Fri Oct 4 17:28:09 1991:

Really? When I browsed in the store, about one in ten was unabridged.
The rest were chop jobs.
Maybe those 1's in 10's were the "Books on Tape" ones. 


#97 of 297 by popcorn on Sun Oct 6 06:03:01 1991:

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#98 of 297 by arthur on Mon Oct 7 18:10:44 1991:

re #94:  Don't you mean abridged? Annotated ones would be even
longer -- and pretty distracting and difficult to listen to.


#99 of 297 by bad on Tue Oct 8 00:31:25 1991:

Yeah, I caught that, and said abridged in #96. :)
Slip of the tongue.


#100 of 297 by mcnally on Tue Oct 8 07:24:04 1991:

  I just started "The Devouring Fungus:  Tales of the Computer Age", which
I picked up for $1.98 at AfterWords this evening.  So far it seems to be
pretty entertaining.  The first part of the book is a history of computers
and the second part seems to be filled with stories and anecdotes about
computers.  I don't know that I'd want to pay the $10.95 original price 
for it (trade paperback) but for $2 it seems well worth it.


#101 of 297 by bad on Wed Oct 9 06:29:07 1991:

Hmmn...I was there tonight and missed that.
Where was it?


#102 of 297 by mcnally on Wed Oct 9 06:41:45 1991:

  In the computer/technology section.  I finished it last night 
(it's only about 200 pages) and enjoyed it a reasonable amount.
Not as good as "Hackers" by Stephen Levy, but still interesting.


#103 of 297 by popcorn on Fri Oct 11 02:51:54 1991:

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#104 of 297 by bad on Fri Oct 11 04:37:37 1991:

Shouldn't it be _A Grex of Gargoyles_? That sounds better.


#105 of 297 by arabella on Fri Oct 11 21:34:31 1991:

I'm reading the second collection of top ten lists from "Late
Night with David Letterman."  It's a good way to take entertaining
breaks from the pain and misery of graduate study ;).



#106 of 297 by popcorn on Sun Oct 13 13:25:58 1991:

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#107 of 297 by keats on Sun Oct 13 16:55:33 1991:

i'm crawling a few minutes and pages each night before going to sleep 
through carole nelson douglas's _good night, mr. holmes_ (the title is
responsibly misquoted from "a scandal in bohemia," of course). for those
of you who don't know, it's the story of irene adler, "the woman," i.e.,
the only one holmes ever noticed--because she happened to outwit him.
i'm only a bit over a hundred pages in, so my commentary is tenative. but
i'm finding the construction of the narrator/detective relationship to be 
very derivative, too obviously so, of douglas' own (mis)understanding of 
the watson/holmes relationship. as well, irene doesn't seem like quite the
same character she was in "scandal." there is too much trying to parallel
her intellectually with holmes rather than developing her chameleonlike
actress's abilities and her innate understanding into people and even
situations--ironically, perhaps, she is a very masculine character indeed
for the period, especially coming from a woman author. having said all that,
i nonetheless feel they are not only tenative, but minor quibbles. i'm
enjoying the book immensely and do recommend it.


#108 of 297 by arthur on Sun Oct 13 17:14:32 1991:

   I'm well into my second reading of G.I. Gilman's "Moonwise", and am
just as impressed with it as I was the first time through.  It is one
of my very favorite books.  It is beautiful.  And difficult.  But
unlike "Ulysses", the difficulty is an integral part of the beauty
and of the story, not just an intellectual challenge.  
   It is more poem than prose, so don't expect rapid plot development.
Nor clear, straightforward descriptions of characters' personalities.
Just beautiful, complex ones, that have to be divined from the pattern
of metaphor and action.
   Is it worth the effort?  Only if you are jaded with contemporary
fantasy, or are looking for that same magical transport that
childhood fairy tales or JRR Tolkien, unfamiliar, gave.


#109 of 297 by steve on Tue Oct 15 01:36:25 1991:

   Finished _Crooked Tree_ and now on _Podkayne of Mars_ by Heinlein.
Worth reading again as an adult after 20 something years last.


#110 of 297 by jdg on Tue Oct 15 01:46:29 1991:

Am now reading Carrie Fisher's "Surrender the Pink."  Very funny, very
good.  As good as her "Postcards from the Edge," which was a lousy movie,
as they altered the plot and storyline.  She's a far better writer than
actress, even if she made buns on the ears famous.


#111 of 297 by mcnally on Tue Oct 15 06:55:43 1991:

  I just picked up Pynchon's "Vineland" from the Borders remaindered table
for the incredibly low price of only $3.98.  I didn't get a ginsu knife set
with it but it is the hardcover edition and looks decently bound.  I've been
waiting to pick it up but to get the hardcover for less than a mass market
paperback was irresistable.


#112 of 297 by popcorn on Wed Oct 16 01:58:12 1991:

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#113 of 297 by steve on Wed Oct 16 16:59:34 1991:

   Sure.  Perhaps "quaint" is a good word for it.  I haven't remembered
this book as well as I have others.  Poddy is a bit believeable, but Clark
I find too much, for a kid of his age.  Does the book portray Podkayne in
a way that we would consider patronizing today?  Probably.  Does the book
portray her in an advanced position at the time it was published?  Probably.
So what might have been forward thinking 30+ years ago is quaint today.
The ending was pretty bad, I think.  Podkayne should have died at the end,
and did, originally.  _Grumbles from the Grave_ talks about this some.


#114 of 297 by popcorn on Wed Oct 16 22:42:51 1991:

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#115 of 297 by steve on Wed Oct 23 01:18:58 1991:

   I just finished (after Glenda) _The Mummy_ by Anne Rice.  Woww!


#116 of 297 by popcorn on Fri Oct 25 00:11:23 1991:

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#117 of 297 by arthur on Fri Oct 25 02:30:58 1991:

   "Thomas the Rhymer", by Ellen Kushner, is a good read.  It's a
retelling of the old legend, in unbowdlerized form.  It's
well written, the characters are more complex than the usual
fantasy/sf cutouts, and ... well, it's a classic tale.
  Besides, how many fantasy novels do you know with a plug
by Maddy Prior of Steeleye Span, on the back cover?


#118 of 297 by steve on Fri Oct 25 16:40:46 1991:

   Currently reading _The Quite Pools_ by Micheal Kube-McDowell.  Gets
better each page, I think.  More later.


#119 of 297 by griz on Fri Oct 25 20:00:46 1991:

I know him!  I know him!  <griz beams widely, then kicks herself for dropping
names>


#120 of 297 by steve on Fri Oct 25 22:44:45 1991:

   Yup, and a pretty nice person, too.  The fun part was that Glenda and I
were at a party once when Mike was picking out names for the Starships
in the book.  Memphis was my favorite--glad to see it got in.


#121 of 297 by jes on Sat Oct 26 19:19:27 1991:

RE #117. Do we have another Steeleye Span fan on board?



#122 of 297 by steve on Sun Oct 27 00:11:21 1991:

   Me.  Haven't heard them much, but I've loved what I've heard.


#123 of 297 by polygon on Sun Oct 27 00:39:07 1991:

Take it to music!  :-)


#124 of 297 by arthur on Sun Oct 27 04:19:02 1991:

#121.  Absolutely.  


#125 of 297 by popcorn on Mon Nov 18 07:00:59 1991:

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#126 of 297 by mythago on Wed Nov 20 02:30:53 1991:

Faludi, _Backlash_.  Go get it.  Really neat, not "man-bashing", and
she backs up everything with cites and sources.


#127 of 297 by popcorn on Wed Nov 20 04:00:59 1991:

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#128 of 297 by popcorn on Wed Nov 20 04:03:31 1991:

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#129 of 297 by ragnar on Wed Nov 20 11:53:47 1991:

Whew!  Us conspirators are safe for a while...


#130 of 297 by mythago on Thu Nov 21 15:25:11 1991:

In fact, she states right up front that there is NO Evil Conspiracy
plotting to undermine women...and also points out that many of the
leading anti-feminists are women who have full-time jobs in male-
dominated professions, put their kids in day care, etc.


#131 of 297 by danr on Fri Nov 22 23:08:36 1991:

I just finished reading _Slouching Towards Bethlehem_, a collection of
essays written in the 60s by Joan Didion.  For some reason, I had
the impression whe was a novelist in the Danielle Steele/Jackie Collins
vein, but she is a great essayist.  I bet her novels are pretty good, too.


#132 of 297 by popcorn on Sun Nov 24 15:41:58 1991:

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#133 of 297 by mcnally on Mon Nov 25 07:11:04 1991:

  Hmm..  I almost wandered in their earlier.  I was picking something up
at the Krogers there and was mysteriously seized with an impulse to go book
shopping (for something by Stanislaw Lem, I think..)


#134 of 297 by danr on Fri Jan 3 12:29:19 1992:

Just finished _Donald Duk_ by Frank Chin.  It is a funny story about
a kid growing up in SF's Chinatown who would rather be Fred Astaire
than a Chinatown kid.  The story is basically about how the kid discovers
his Chinese-ness.  Funny story.  It's available from the AA Public Library
(or it will be after I return the book).


#135 of 297 by popcorn on Sun Jan 12 17:44:10 1992:

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#136 of 297 by ecl on Mon Jan 13 05:19:16 1992:

last night when I went to bed, and before I went to sleep this morning.
I read _The Rowen_ by Ann Mcaffery.
It was enjoyable.



#137 of 297 by lenscap on Mon Jul 20 17:20:51 1992:

I recently read "A Confederacy of Dunces," by John Kennedy Toole, which
I heartily recommend.  It is one of the funniest novels I've ever read,
and at the same time manages to be an excellent book.  It is loaded
with hilarious characters and situations, all stemming from the mis-
guided (and somewhat tragic) antics of the book's hero, Ignatius J.
Reiley.

It is an interesting story about the author.  In desperation at his
failure for not being able to publish his book, he committed suicide.
Several years later, through much persistance, his mother got the 
book published.

Again, I greatly recommend it, you will not be disappointed.


#138 of 297 by mcnally on Mon Jul 20 18:47:44 1992:

  (even more ironically, Toole was awarded a pulitzer prize posthumously
for "A Confederacy of Dunces"..)


#139 of 297 by lenscap on Tue Jul 21 13:09:51 1992:

I recently saw in a book store in New York another book written by him,
"The Neon Bible," apparently when he was sixteen years old.

Makes you wonder what kind of a genius was lost.


#140 of 297 by keats on Tue Jul 21 13:54:29 1992:

oh chatterton! how very sad thy fate!
dear child of sorrow! son of misery!
how soon the film of death obscur'd that eye,
whence genius wildly flash'd, and high debate!
how soon that voice, majestic and elate,
melted in dying murmurs! o how nigh
was night to thy fair morning! thou didst die
a half-blown flower, which cold blasts amate.
but this is past. thou art among the stars
of highest heaven; to the rolling spheres
thou sweetly singest--nought thy hymning mars
above the ingrate world and human fears.
on earth the good man base detraction bars
from thy fair name, and waters it with tears!


#141 of 297 by arabella on Wed Aug 5 00:47:29 1992:

I'm currently working on a Martha Grimes mystery, "The Old Contemptibles."
I've read about six of her Superintendent Richard Jury mysteries, and 
they are all terrific.  Only one complaint:  Sometimes the plot becomes
rather mysterious itself, in an englishy sort of way.  Grimes writes
mysteries in the british style (set in England), even though she is
an American who lives in Baltimore, MD.


#142 of 297 by danr on Wed Aug 5 02:24:16 1992:

I'm reading _Damon Runyon: A Life_ by Jimmy Breslin.  It's an 
interesting book, but the writing is tough to read.  Breslin jumps
from one incident to another in a very odd fashion.


#143 of 297 by mcnally on Wed Aug 5 04:44:35 1992:

  God help me, I just re-started reading "Gravity's Rainbow" (yes,
re-started reading, not started re-reading..)  Maybe this time I'll
make it a couple of hundred pages farther..  I'm at a loss to explain
why I've run out of steam on past attempts, since it's quite enjoyable
reading, but it's definitely substantially harder than his other books
(for those who haven't read any Pynchon, I recommend "The Crying of 
Lot 49" as a starting point..  Excellent, hilarious, and bizarre book
that's definitely worth checking out..)

  The last thing I read was "Hocus Pocus", by Kurt Vonnegut, which
was quite enjoyable..  Before that it was "Appointment in Samarra"
by John O'Hara, which was also worth reading, though perhaps a bit
depressing since at the time I was feeling overly-dramatic and drawing
parallels between my life and that of the main character..


#144 of 297 by griz on Fri Aug 7 16:25:24 1992:

Chris absolutely *hated* _Gravity's Rainbow_.  Said it had no worth
whatsoever.


#145 of 297 by mcnally on Fri Aug 7 17:17:42 1992:

  Well, I've never made it far enough into the novel to tell, though
I've made it to some priceless parts..  It seems pretty cool to me,
just long and deliberately unfocused.  Pynchon's style can take some
getting used to, especially his tendency to overload the reader's
capacity to keep track of what's going on.  Rereading the books (or
at least parts that were difficult to follw) after your brain has had 
a chance to cool down helps a lot.

  Out of curiosity, had he (and enjoyed) any other Pynchon first, or
did he go into "Gravity's Rainbow" cold?  I've enjoyed the other Pynchon
novels I've read quite a bit, but I can't see enjoying "Gravity's 
Rainbow" very much if I just had to read it for a class and wasn't warmed 
up for it first..



#146 of 297 by arthur on Fri Aug 7 20:37:55 1992:

   I hadn't read any Pynchon when I started Gravity's Rainbow,
for fun.  I wasn't impressed, and didn't bother to finish it.
'Course, I don't really like John Cage, either....


#147 of 297 by mcnally on Fri Aug 7 23:21:34 1992:

  Really, give "The Crying of Lot 49" a try..  It's no where near as
impenetrable as "Gravity's Rainbow" and only about 180 pages (if that..)
rather than GR's >750pp..


#148 of 297 by griz on Sat Aug 8 12:32:57 1992:

Re #145:
He had to read it for a class, a long time ago.  He was quite a prude at
the time, still, so that might have had something to do with it ...


#149 of 297 by arthur on Tue Aug 11 04:55:25 1992:


   John Varley has *finally* published again!  His new
novel is _Steel Beach_, and is the first thing he's done
in years.  It is, as usual, thought-provoking, funny, 
imaginative and interesting. For instance, butterflies with
space suits...real, ordinary Monarch butterflies, given space
suits, so that they can fly on the Moon.

   I suspect that it is one of his more personal, autobiographical
works, which is part of what makes the book both very good
and somewhat disappointing.  Unfortunately, a few parts of 
the novel are unbearably trite (which was a surprise).  But
the novel is worth reading, for the many, many good parts.  
I even feel that it was worth buying, hardcover.


#150 of 297 by arabella on Tue Aug 11 09:48:36 1992:

Well, I finished "The Old Contemptibles," and as usual, I am slightly
mystified.  Grimes never explains quite thoroughly *why* the person
that did it *did it*.  I mean, the motivation was just not quite
clear.  Oh well, it was still a good read.


#151 of 297 by cwb on Fri Dec 4 19:17:24 1992:

     Orson Scott Card: Maps in a Mirror.  I'm in the middle of this marvelous
anthology of Card's short fiction, and can highly recommend it!
     The Deathbird Stories, Harlan Ellison.  I'm told this is
hard to find, but again I thoroughly recommend it.  Ellison's stories about the
new gods of our life are chilling.  You'll recognize some: Pretty Maggie
Money-eyes, The Deathbird, etc.
     De Gaulle, the Rebel, by Jean laCouture.  An interesting biography of
Charles De Gaulle.  It also gives some interesting perspectives on WWII,
Roosevelt and Churchill. Beware its biass!  It's volume I, II is De Gaulle the
Ruler, which I've not read yet.
     Polyphemus by Michael Shea.  Some good short fiction, some less so, but it
contains The Coroner, which ranks up there as one of the best pieces of horror
fiction ever written.
     Chris


#152 of 297 by danr on Fri Dec 4 23:08:08 1992:

_Guerilla Financing_ by Levinson and Blechman.  Who knows?  I may just
be able to start my own business after all.


#153 of 297 by popcorn on Sat Dec 5 04:41:36 1992:

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#154 of 297 by mcnally on Mon Dec 7 14:45:02 1992:

 "Unix Programmer's Manual : Supplemental Documents"
 (I'm reading an exciting short story:  "Screen Programming with Curses")


#155 of 297 by remmers on Mon Dec 7 15:17:03 1992:

(Yes, the author of that one does tend to wax enthusiastic, doesn't he!)


#156 of 297 by cwb on Tue Dec 8 01:15:36 1992:

     Jeez you guys, and I thought I needed to get out more often! <g>
     I've just started rereading what many
call "The Trilogy" i.e "The Lord of the Rings."
I intended to reread it earlier this fall, but
I was at the mercy of the NLS which didn't
have any copies for months, and then
I got three whole sets, plus 1 extra 'The Return of the King"
     chris


#157 of 297 by aa8ij on Tue Dec 8 22:03:45 1992:

 I am now officially at the halfway mark in my current book,"the novel"
by James A. (I like to write) Michener.


#158 of 297 by arabella on Mon Dec 14 09:49:24 1992:

I am eagerly reading the AmigaWorld Offical AmigaDOS 2 Companion.
It's surprisingly well written and accessible to the only
semi-computer literate, like myself.



#159 of 297 by ecl on Wed Dec 23 04:36:30 1992:

I hear that the AmigaDos 3.0 manuals are even better.



#160 of 297 by lenscap on Mon Jan 18 03:23:10 1993:

I'm reading "Bluebeard," by Kurt Vonnegut, upon the recommendation
of a friend.  Any Vonnegut fans out there?  What do you recommend?


#161 of 297 by chelsea on Mon Jan 18 21:41:33 1993:

I really enjoyed his _Galapagos_.  I read it on a hot beach with hardly
anyone else around.  This made it a Panoramic read, of sorts.

I just finished _A Thousand Acres_, by Jane Smiley.  I'd taken my time
with this one, reading it in measured bites.  It was that intense.
One of the best books I've read in a long, long time. 


#162 of 297 by arthur on Mon Jan 18 22:32:25 1993:

   "Generation X"  very funny, cutting look at 90's life.


#163 of 297 by jdg on Thu Jan 21 02:34:05 1993:

re 160: you might find "Hocus Pocus" interesting.


#164 of 297 by mcnally on Thu Jan 21 15:54:52 1993:

  Yes, I liked "Hocus Pocus"  (the fact that I picked up the harcover for
$4 or so at Afterwords didn't hurt..)


#165 of 297 by cwb on Sat Jan 30 18:10:56 1993:

     I just had the oddd experience of reading the Electric Kool-aid Acid
Test by Tom Wolfe.  What made it more interesting was that I recently read
Carouac's On The Road.  The two had some things in common, though I think
Wolfe got more of the flavor of the scene.  Very interesting, a little
hard going, but all in all, worth the effort.



#166 of 297 by ecl on Sun Jan 31 00:32:38 1993:

I didn't make it farther than the third chapter of Electric-Acid Kool-Aid Test.
I just couldn't make sense of it.



#167 of 297 by danr on Sun Jan 31 16:04:04 1993:

I just read an interesting book.  Here is an adaptation of the
review I wrote for my magazine, Test & Measurement World, an
electronics trade journal.  I think may of you will find it
interesting and useful.  I got it at the library downtown, so you
don't even have to buy it.
 
Read This Book!
 
One of the most interesting books I've read lately is _Follow the
Yellow Brick Road: Learning to Give, Take, and Use Instructions_
by Richard Saul Wurman. Despite the title, it's more than just a
"how-to" book on giving and taking instructions. It's about human
nature as much as it is about instructions.
 
Why should you care about giving and (especially) taking
instructions?  Think about it. Giving, taking, and carrying out
instructions occupies most of your work day.
 
When your boss gives you a project, he is giving you
instructions. You must then take those instructions and translate
them into a schematic for a test circuit, a computer program, or
maybe an operating manual. What are these? They are simply other
forms of instructions. Your success depends on how well you carry
out instructions from above and how well you give instructions to
those under you.
 
How well you carry out these tasks depends on how well you
understood the instructions given to you and how well folks
understand your instructions. This is where human nature fits in.
There are many barriers to understanding instructions, and most
of them have something to do with human nature. The words we use,
our body language, our ethnic heritage, and many other factors
affect our ability to give and take instructions.
 
Wurman then goes on to show us how to do it right. In the chapter
"Instruction Construction 101," he gives us the seven elements of
a good instruction:
 
- Mission (Why are you doing this?),
- Destination (Where will you be or what will
             you have when you're done?)
- Procedure (How do you do it?)
- Time (How long will it take to do it?)
- Anticipation (What happens along the way?)
- Failure (What to do is something goes wrong?)
 
How you implement these elements depends on the type of
instructions you're trying to give. Writing a computer manual is
going to be very different than telling a passing motorist how to
get to the mall.
 
This is one of those books that works on many different levels
simultaneously. It not only tells you how to give and take
instructions better, but why you should give instructions in
certain ways, and why instruction-giving and instruction-taking
is so important. That is what makes this such an interesting and
useful book.
 
@I{Follow the Yellow Brick Road: Learning to Give, Take, and Use
Instructions} by Richard Saul Wurman. Bantam Books, 666 Fifth
Avenue, New York, NY 10103. ISBN 0-553-07425-3. 1992. 388 pages.
Price: $25.



#168 of 297 by mta on Sun Jan 31 16:25:19 1993:

Sounds like a good one, Dan--thanks for the review.


#169 of 297 by cwb on Fri Feb 5 03:20:36 1993:

     The thing about EKAT is that you can't really understand it until you
have finished it.  There isn't much intermediate coherence.  This is
deliberately done, Wolfe is trying to turn Ken Kesey from an acid-head
into some sort of mythic folk hero.  It's interesting to watch him try and
maybe succeed.



#170 of 297 by cwb on Wed Feb 24 22:24:26 1993:

     MAM-ista by Len Deighton: I give this book a hmmm.  I very much liked
his double trilogy "game set and match" and "hook line and sinker", though
the second set of names sacrificed sense for cuteness.  I've read a fair
amount of his other stuff, and nothing else has measured up for me.  I'm
told that SSGB is that good.



#171 of 297 by cwb on Sat Mar 6 21:03:22 1993:

     Move On by Linda Ellerby.  This one's a winner.  She can write!  It's
a sequel to "And So It Goes" which I haven't read.  In it she talks about
her experiences with "five networks, four husbands, two children and ..."
I can't remember the last part of the summary.  She also writes about
alcoholism, (hers and her father's) writing, her childhood, how her friend
was eaten by a television and much more.  The writing is at times witty,
ascerbic, moving and terribly sad, but it's always hers.  I recommend this
one to anyone.



#172 of 297 by danr on Mon Apr 5 21:53:32 1993:

Hey! Did everyone stop reading for the winter?

The latest novel for me is _The Joy Luck Club_ by Amy Tan.  I got it
at the AA Library Sale for 50 cents.

It's a very good book.  It describes the lives of Chinese immigrants
and their "Americanized" offspring.  I could really relate to this
book. Change the Chinese names to Slovak names and you have the
generation that migrated to America from Eastern Europ around the turn
of the century.



#173 of 297 by hawkeye on Tue Apr 6 13:09:51 1993:

My wife forced John Grisham's "The Pelican Brief" on me saying she
put it down after 40 pages because the writing style offended her.  Not
one to back away from a challenge like that, I read it.  Certainly no
great literary shakes, but it was enough that I finished it.  Reads like
a screenplay with numerous 5 page chapters.  Very little suspense and
none of the characters were more than caricatures.


#174 of 297 by aa8ij on Wed Apr 7 03:29:27 1993:

  I just bought "Elvis is Dead, and I don't feel so good myself" and
 "Chili Dawgs always bark at night" by Lewis Grizzard, perhaps the
best southern author in recent memory.


#175 of 297 by danr on Thu Apr 8 17:36:51 1993:

re #173:  Grisham sure is popular.  In the latest Publisher's Weekly,
_The Client_ is #1 for hardback fiction, _The Pelican Brief_ is #1 in
paperback fiction, and _The Firm_ is #2 in paperback fiction.  Every
where you go people seem to be reading those books.


#176 of 297 by mythago on Sat Apr 10 14:23:48 1993:

re :173, :175, he's sort of like Stephen King -- exaggerated characters,
high-action plots, big overshadowing of Good and Evil in the background.
I've read a couple of his books, and wished I hadn't. There's better
(and less sexist) mind-candy out there.


#177 of 297 by mcnally on Mon Apr 19 01:18:22 1993:

  I've sort of stalled on the stuff I'm currently reading -- I bit off
much more than I can chew..   The books sitting next to my bed (it'd be
a stretch at this point in time to say that I'm actually reading them)
include Umberto Eco's "Foucalt's Pendulum", an excerpt from Thomas Aquinas'
"Summa Theologica" ("Treatise On Law", basically Aquinas' ramblings on
the role of law in society..), and Adobe's "Postscript Language Reference
Manual".  Probably what will happen is I'll read some sort of fluff novel
to build up momentum and then try and plow further into "Foucalt's Pendulum".


#178 of 297 by danr on Mon Apr 19 12:06:53 1993:

_Information Anxiety_ by Saul Wurman.  An excellent book on how to deal
with information, both the information we are deluged with each day
and the information we generate for others.


#179 of 297 by flak on Tue Apr 20 16:46:57 1993:

_Foucalt's Pendulum_ was an excellent book, as was _The Name of the Rose_ both
of course by Eco.  _FP_ was difficult at first because of my unfarmiliarity 
with some of the concepts, and Eco's zealous use of overly complex words and
constructions.  But it eases up a bit; after I struggled through the first 
100 pages, I couldn't put it down until it was all over.  Then I went into my
standard post-novel book withdrawl.
 
  Most recently read: _Snow Crash_ by Neal Stephanson.  Highlt recommended for
Japanimation, Cyberspace, Futurist buffs.
 


#180 of 297 by cwb on Tue Apr 20 19:46:14 1993:

     Did you know that William F. Buckley Jr wrote novels?  Well he has
written nine or ten.  I've just read one, and surprisingly good, if you
like boy's adventure novels (my name for "action novels").  This
particular specimen is called _Tucker's _Last _Stand, and concerns a CIA
agent and a major in Special Forces stationed in Vietnam in 1964 during
the critical up to and after the mysterious "attack" at the Gulf of
Tonkin.  Buckley can tell a good story, though his prose gets a bit
labored at times, and his writing about sex scenes is just funny; it
reminds me of a better-educated Lustbader.  (Yes I admit it, I've read the
Ninja books.  <blush>)  All in all, I'd give it a solid B-.
     _People _in _Trouble, by Sara Schulman: A-.  This book tells the
story of Peter, a straight man, Kate, his bisexual wife and Molly her
lesbian lover.  Now add the backdrop of the AIDS epidemic in New York City
some time in the mid eighties I'd guess.  It's a fascinating look, and the
character of Kate is a neat character.  It also features a cast of
wonderful characters from the New York gay community including Cardinal
(that's miss to you) Spellman, and many others, some of whom die during
the telling.  The focus of the book is Kate who tries to juggle her
various lives, and who must confront AIDS as a disease that kills people
she cares about.  (God I sound like the back of the book.  <sigh>)
     The only problem I had with the book was that the character of Peter
was almost the icon of the "liberal" homophobe.  I know these people
exist, but in a work of fiction it would perhaps have been more
interesting if Peter had been less uniformly an ass hole.



#181 of 297 by arabella on Thu Apr 22 05:19:38 1993:

Hmm, I seem to remember reading a Buckley book about 12 years ago,
sort of a political thriller about a U.S. president who goes
blind, and the attempts by his inner circle to conceal that 
fact...  Come to think of it, I think that book was actually 
written by William Safire.  Oh well, I can't quite be sure,
since it was a library book.  I seem to recall enjoying it, however.

I just finished "'I' is for Innocent," by Sue Grafton.  I'm a
big Grafton fan, but I had been very disappointed in the "H" 
volume.  "I" was a return to expected form, and the last
couple of chapters were especially exciting.  Now I'm about to
start in on "'J' is for Judgement," her new bestseller, though
I wonder if I should read some non-Grafton book in between...


#182 of 297 by cwb on Thu Apr 22 20:57:05 1993:

     You didn't like H?  Why not?  It was certainly different from the
rest of the series.  Having said that, I am looking forward to when I
comes out on tape so I can read it.  I hear that _J _is _for _Judgment is
the next one.



#183 of 297 by arabella on Sat Apr 24 21:50:25 1993:

I didn't like "H" because I couldn't stand Kinsey being trapped
by that crazed guy for almost the entire book, and I really really
hated that crazed guy (sorry I can't recall his name) whose
anger was way out of proportion to whatever was offending him.
I guess Kinsey being trapped by someone I couldn't stand made
me feel as if *I* were trapped.


#184 of 297 by cwb on Sun Apr 25 18:05:11 1993:

     It was harder to read than some of the other Grafton books.


#185 of 297 by arabella on Tue May 4 10:06:34 1993:

I'm 60 pages into "J" (I'm a slow reader) and so far I really
like it a lot.


#186 of 297 by md on Mon Jun 14 17:33:28 1993:

The Baseball Encyclopedia.  2,000+ pages of history and
statistics.  It's the kind of book you can't stop browsing
once you start.


#187 of 297 by md on Tue Jun 15 12:56:44 1993:

Also Judith Farr's new biography of Emily Dickinson.  It's the
third biography I have whose title starts with "The Passion of..."
The other two are "...Ayn Rand" and "...Michel Foucault."  I hate
these fads.  All three are interesting books, though.  Ms. Dickinson's
reputation surely won't be hurt by Farr's revelation that she had
homoerotic tendencies.


#188 of 297 by ecl on Wed Jun 16 04:37:48 1993:

just got _Selling The Dream_
How to Promote you product, compnay, or Ideas -
and make a difference -
using everday evangelism.
by Guy Kawasaki
Author of _The Macintosh Way_



#189 of 297 by aahz on Wed Jun 16 19:56:47 1993:

The most excellent series I've read is the "Myth" series by Robert Aspirin.
Good light hearted entertainment


#190 of 297 by danr on Sat Jun 19 02:07:57 1993:

re 188:  I've read that book.  It's great!  Try sending him a fax
when you get to that section.  He sent me a very nice response.


#191 of 297 by arabella on Tue Jun 29 06:26:22 1993:

I just finished "Girl, Interrupted," by Susanna Kaysen.  It's a
wonderfully well written, though sometimes scary, memoir of the
nearly two years the author spent in a mental hospital, beginning
when she was 18.


#192 of 297 by popcorn on Mon Jul 12 01:26:19 1993:

This response has been erased.



#193 of 297 by jdg on Mon Jul 12 02:22:11 1993:

No one ever accused McCaffrey of producing literature.

Honestly, she took an interesting Novella, "Weyr Search", which had won a
Hugo, and turned it into a rather bad full-length novel.  The rest is,
as they say, marketing history.
 
I have like some of her other work, but her Pern novels I found trite,
telegraphic, and rather poor.


#194 of 297 by polygon on Mon Jul 12 22:20:31 1993:

Re 192.  Have you read the part about the nude wedding?


#195 of 297 by danr on Fri Sep 3 23:15:36 1993:

So, has anyone read anything in the last six or seven weeks?

I just read _Susie Bright's Sexual Reality: A Virtual Sex World Reader_. 
I checked this one out of the library!  This is a short book, and is a 
collection of some of her articles and short essays.  Most of it was 
amusing, some of it thought-provoking.

One chapter of the book is an interview with Camille Paglia.  I really
know nothing about Ms. Paglia before reading this interview.  Her views
sounded interesting so I got her latest book, _Sex, Art and Popular
Culture_ out of the library.  This book is also a collection of
articles and essays.

Paglia has more of an academic (read less lively and interesting)
style than Bright, but this book is equally thought-provoking.  Some
of her views are kind of off-the-wall, but at least she's not another
PC drone.

Finally, after seeing innumerable articles by Wendell Berry, I decided
to check out a collection of his essays.  Internetters should find his
books challenging because one of his main themes is that we should
somehow find ways to stimulate local economies and curtail the
activities of national and multi-national corporations.  I can see the
truth in what he has to say, but I really can't see us moving back to
that system.


#196 of 297 by hawkeye on Tue Sep 7 17:20:27 1993:

I've read lots of things, though few were real raves.  "Harlan Ellison's
Watching" was a wonderful collection of his film "reviews".  "Jurrasic
Park" the book was good, though I didn't think it was "better" than the
film.  


#197 of 297 by md on Wed Sep 8 13:34:49 1993:

"The Country of the Pointed Firs" by Sarah Orne Jewett.  I'm trying
to read it in the hammock out in the back yard as much as possible.


#198 of 297 by lenscap on Sat Nov 13 18:05:30 1993:

"Wise Blood," by Flannery O'Connor is absolutely one of the most
disturbing, pessimistic books I've ever read, but also one of the 
most brilliant. 

Any other fans out there?


#199 of 297 by katie on Sun Nov 14 22:30:05 1993:

I've read one book by Flannery O'Connnor, but I don't remember its title
or whether I enjoyed it!


#200 of 297 by danr on Mon Nov 15 01:37:02 1993:

I read _The Crying of Lot 49_ by Thomas Pynchon a while ago.  I really
enjoyed this book.  It even has something for the electronics jocks
among us.  Pynchon is able to weave into this story discourses on
printed circuit boards and Fourier transforms.


#201 of 297 by hawkeye on Mon Nov 15 17:05:50 1993:

Read "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand not too long ago.  Didn't like ti
as much as "Atlas Shrugged" as I thought the "romance" aspect of the
book was a bit strained.


#202 of 297 by cwb on Fri Dec 3 05:14:16 1993:

     I just read "ME: Stories of my Life" by Katherine Hepburn.  It's her
autobiography, and while it doesn't really contain much that a Hepburn
scholar could take at face value, the style and language are wonderful.  I
am a Hepburn fan.


#203 of 297 by md on Fri Dec 3 14:30:36 1993:

The new Library of America two-volume anthology of 19th century
American poetry, edited by John Hollander.  Wonderful beyond
wonderful.  If you don't go out and buy these books immediately,
you'll be sorry.


#204 of 297 by remmers on Fri Dec 3 17:54:56 1993:

Can I wait until I'm over my cold?



#205 of 297 by aa8ij on Fri Dec 3 21:51:46 1993:

 No, you'd better go now ;)


#206 of 297 by polygon on Thu Dec 30 19:12:25 1993:

I just (a day ago) finished reading Umberto Eco's "The Name of the Rose",
which had been waiting on my bookshelf for years before I got around to it.
People seeing me reading it said: "What, you hadn't read it yet?"

The ending, though expected from the beginning, made a sad parallel to the
more recent fate of the National & University Library in Sarajevo, with its
millions of books and tens of thousands of manuscripts, including Medieval
ones.


#207 of 297 by bartlett on Thu Dec 30 21:28:05 1993:

"Feminist Fatale: Voices from the Twenty-Something Generation Discuss the
Future of the Women's Movement." by Paula Kamen.  I'm still in the middle of
this book, but it is a very interesting look at Feminism, and the
anti-Feminist backlash from the point of view of people (both men and women)
of my age.  Kamen, a graduate of, I think, the University of Illinois
Journalism school set out to find out what the twenty-somethings think about
the Women's Movement, and why there are so few young voices in it.  This
book is the result.


#208 of 297 by danr on Sat Feb 12 13:33:08 1994:

_Things That Make Us Smart_ by Donald Norman.  This book describes how
people use artifacts to help us in our intellectual ventures.  He
starts out with things like pencil and paper, and will undoubtedly (I
haven't gotten that far yet) talk about computers.  Norman also
discusses how to improve these artifacts so they serve us better.



#209 of 297 by danr on Sun Apr 3 16:36:55 1994:

_Four Argruments for the Elimination of Television by Jerry Mander.
I was inspired to check this book out of the library by the adver-
tisiing itme in agora.


#210 of 297 by rcurl on Sun Apr 3 18:58:33 1994:

There is a discussion going on in Writing on whether to start a separate
BOOKS conference. Since this is the existing books item, in arts, I'd like
to ask about that here. This item would, of course, be a natural to be
linked to a books conference, but a new conference would go beyond what
confers have read, or are reading. The current thread over in writing is
about bookbinding, and the item started with a discursive musing on
antiquarian books and how books tie together disparate lives, even in most
unlikely ways. 



#211 of 297 by omni on Sun Apr 3 20:07:04 1994:

 I would support a Books conf, and I would even volunteer as a co-fw.


#212 of 297 by remmers on Sun Apr 3 21:00:46 1994:

Since a books conference would likely overlap with territory currently
covered by both the arts and writing conferences, I think it's appropriate
to sound out the feelings of the fw's of both conferences as part of the
discussion.  So I'm glad you raised the concept in the arts conference.


#213 of 297 by robh on Sun Apr 3 21:14:42 1994:

And speaking as the Scifi fw, I expect we'd have some overlap
there as well.  Yeah, I know, most people don't consider it
"real" literature...


#214 of 297 by omni on Mon Apr 4 07:49:50 1994:

 John, this conf (arts) only has one or two active items, and it is
linked to agora. I never liked the idea of linking the most active item
to agora, but the general feeling is agora is a better place for the
Movie item. 
 Having just one item in the conf for books is like selling one grade of
gasoline; it will never reach mass appeal. I for one, would like to see
a books conf, if only for the variety of topic that would be covered.


#215 of 297 by remmers on Mon Apr 4 12:36:39 1994:

I'm not arguing for or against the concept, just stating how I think
the proposal should be handled. (And I think it's being handled fine so
far.)


#216 of 297 by hawkeye on Mon Apr 4 14:49:17 1994:

Why not just create new items in Arts about books?  When I helped create
the new Arts cf. back in 1991, it wasn't intended that this would be the 
*only* place to discuss books, but to be used as a stepping stone.
 
However, if I wanted to enter an item about a Sci-Fi book, I'd probably
do it in Sci-Fi and *not* in "Books".  I've always seen "Arts" as a very
general "catch-all" cf.  So, as an Arts co-fw, I'd have no objection to
an item about how books are processed.


#217 of 297 by mta on Mon Apr 11 04:44:16 1994:

I think a book {_cf sounds fascinating.


#218 of 297 by rcurl on Mon May 2 19:44:49 1994:

The question of a Books cf petered out in Writing, and seems to have
petered out here too. So I'm not going to push it. However I do think
that newusers interested in books aren't likely to find this Item,
hidden in arts/entertainment. On the other hand, there hasn't been
a ground swell here or in writing from bibliophiles. Well, I could
ask in agora, and see what happens.


#219 of 297 by remmers on Tue May 3 15:44:08 1994:

Standard place to propose new conferences is Coop, but you seem to have
discovered that.


#220 of 297 by gerund on Fri May 6 18:32:32 1994:

Item #8 in arts is now linked as item #5 in books.


#221 of 297 by gerund on Thu Aug 18 11:11:33 1994:

Hmm... This item doesn't seem to have been going anywhere, so I thought
I'd try and liven it up.

I've started up my old habit of reading several things at once.
Currently I'm reading:

1.  _Death From Child Abuse... and no one heard_ by Eve Krupinski and
    Dana Weikel.

        A rather depressing account of the last week of the life
        of five year old Ursula Sunshine Assaid, who died after 55
        hours of abuse at the hands of her mother's boyfriend while
        her mother did nothing to intervene.
        Although the story is based on facts it is DEFINITELY
        a fictionalization of what actually happened.  Still, as
        a book with information to present on child abuse, it is
        a good source.


2.  _Child Abuse_ by Ruth S. and C. Henry Kempe

        One of the books of a series of books entitled The Developing
        Child.  This book explores many aspects of child abuse.
        It also presents detailed profiles and gives the classic signs
        of an abusive parent and the abused child.  Another book
        with much information on the subject.


3.  _Endless Life: Selected Poems_ by Lawrence Ferlinghetti

        This is a collection of poems from eight previous
        books of poetry by Ferlinghetti.

        I'm not sure what sent me in Ferlinghetti's direction, but
        he is quickly becoming one of my favourite poets.


Finally, I'm also reading two books which I've read before:


4.  _Love Songs_ by Sara Teasdale

        Sara Teasdale has long been a favourite of mine, and the
        time came to reread some of her most lasting poetry.


5.  _The Journals of Sylvia Plath_  by Sylvia Plath


        Sylvia Plath has long been my favourite poet.  I read this
        book several years back, and was so moved by it that
        I vowed to return to it one day.  That day has come.


So... what books are you reading currently?


#222 of 297 by hawkeye on Thu Aug 18 13:16:58 1994:

I've read 6 horror books in the last 3-4 weeks.  Give me a day or so and
I'll post some quick reviews.



#223 of 297 by remmers on Thu Aug 18 15:04:15 1994:

I'm currently reading the book that I'm quoting from in the mysterious
quote item in agora, so I won't tell you what it is.


#224 of 297 by rcurl on Thu Aug 18 16:36:55 1994:

I'm reading _History of Cave Science_, but I was going to tell about
it in Non-Fiction after I was done, so I won't tell about it here.


#225 of 297 by remmers on Thu Aug 18 16:39:07 1994:

Now that the author has been guessed in the mysterious quote item, I
can tell you that the book I'm reading is _Confessions of a Crap
Artist - Jack Isidore (of Seville, Calif.)_, by Philip K. Dick.


#226 of 297 by vegas on Thu Aug 18 20:19:19 1994:

The Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony
The Adding Machine (William Burroughs)
Skinny Legs and All (Robbins)
The Unexpected Universe (Eiseley)


#227 of 297 by alfee on Thu Aug 18 23:47:16 1994:

I am reading _Like Water for Chocolate_ by Laura Esquivel.  Good book, reads
quickly.  I finished _Having Our Say_ by Sarah and Elizabeth Delany.  Both
authors are over 100 years old, and if you have even a vague interest in 
history, try this.  It's wonderful.


#228 of 297 by other on Fri Aug 19 04:39:29 1994:

While the  Cat's Away, by Kinky Friedman.  I recommend any of his books.


#229 of 297 by arwen on Sat Aug 20 00:56:13 1994:

Chaos--Gulick
The Holograpic Universe--his name escapes me
The City Who Fought--Anne McCaffrey and S.M>. Stirling (see item on the last
book you read) The Wyndham Legacy--Catherine Coulter

rather a mixed bag!!


#230 of 297 by anne on Sat Aug 20 03:29:30 1994:

Well, I'm currently reading-
        _Storm Warning_ by Mercedes Lackey- about 1/2 through- and I really 
                Like it!!
        _Chrome Circle_ also by Mercedes Lackey- only a few pages into- so
                I am with-holding judgement.
        _Great Expectations_ by Charles Dickins- dun't know why I'm reading
                this one, but I kind of like it.... sorta.



#231 of 297 by arwen on Sat Aug 20 20:55:56 1994:

Anne...I read "Great Expectations" jusst because...and I did like it.
I was clueless that Mercedes had anything new out.  Thanks.


#232 of 297 by remmers on Sat Aug 20 21:20:20 1994:

I have a feeling that most people read _Great Expectations_ because
it's assigned for a class, but it quite rewarding, perhaps more so,
to read it "just because".


#233 of 297 by anne on Sat Aug 20 21:40:26 1994:

arwen- about Mercedes- it's my pleasure.



#234 of 297 by arwen on Sun Aug 21 17:18:45 1994:

Remmers...I always felt left out because none of my teachers ever
assigned Dickens.  Of course, I was reading Pliny and Caesar in
Latin and taking apart Shakespeare "Romeo and Juliet" and "Hamlet"
line by line at the request of one of my much loved English
teachers.   Miss Whittinton....now there was an English teacher.


#235 of 297 by kentn on Sun Aug 21 22:18:37 1994:

In junior high, we were assigned to read _A Tale of Two Cities_, a book
that I ended up liking a lot; however, I'll never forgive the SOB
who wrote "Gaspard killed the Marquis" in the front of my school-provided
copy...


#236 of 297 by remmers on Sun Aug 21 22:27:23 1994:

And *I* will never forgive the SOB who wrote that in this item...


#237 of 297 by arwen on Mon Aug 22 01:44:59 1994:

Me either!!!  I haven't read it yet.  whimper.


#238 of 297 by kentn on Mon Aug 22 02:44:24 1994:

Good!  I got *some* revenge!


#239 of 297 by brighn on Mon Aug 22 05:02:47 1994:

Then I guess y'all would be mad if I told you that in 
Ten Little Indians, by Agatha Christie, the judge pretends
that he was killed so he can come back and kill everyone else?


#240 of 297 by hawkeye on Mon Aug 22 13:33:39 1994:

  "Dark of the Eye" by Douglas Clegg:  Kind of "Firestarter" story about a
  girl who has the power to either heal or kill by her touch.  It was much
  better than "Firestarter", though.  I picked this up based on
  recommendations for *other* books by Clegg and I'll probably pick them out
  because I liked this a lot.  There seemed to be one really *big* failed
  continuity point, but I survived it.

  "The Black Mariah" by Jay Bonansinga.  "Soon to be a major motion
  picture directed by George Romero".  Well, maybe.  Story is about two
  trucking partners who stumble on the wrong thing at the wrong time and pick
  up a curse which will make them burn up from the inside if they stop moving.
  Sounds like "Speed" with a supernatural twist, don't it?  Anyway, it was a
  fast read and much more exciting than I thought it would be.  Recommended.

  Read "X,Y" by Michael Blumlein from Dell's "Abyss" horror
  line.  It was disappointing.  It started promisingly enough, but the ending
  was a let-down.  The basic plot is a female topless dancer locks eyes with a
  customer, passes out and the next day wakes up thinking she's a man in a
  woman's body.  The rest of the book deals with his/her relationship with
  his/her boyfriend and gets rather kinky towards the end.  But the whole
  question of why/how this happened never gets really resolved and ends up
  been unsatisfying.  Not recommended.

  Read the best book of my last purchases (so far)
  yesterday:  "Dead in the Water" by Nancy Holder.  Another "Abyss" horror
  novel.  This one is about 7 people who take a boat to Hawaii, it sinks, they
  get stranded in a lifeboat and rescued by another ship.  *Then* things get
  really weird.  I read a lot of horror novels and this one impressed me more
  than most in the recent years.  You could still get this one on the shelves
  now.  Highly recommended.  Easily the best ending of a horror novel in a
  long time.

  Read DEADWEIGHT by Robert Deveraux.  Another "Abyss"
  book.  Interesting premise -- an abused wife killed her husband, but it
  turns out she has the power to make things grow.  She regularly visits the
  grave of her dead husband and plants flowers over it.  However, because of
  all these visits, she ends up reanimating her dead husband.  This book is
  one of the most incredibly violent books I've read in some time.  While I'm
  not adverse to violence, it was more sadistic than I'm comfortable with.
  There's a *lot* of it.  But there's also a lot of very interesting imagry as
  well.  I wouldn't recommend it for people with weak stomachs (there's a
  really gross variation of the "I'll rip off your head and shit down your
  neck" joke), but if you think you can handle it, you might like it.

  "Curfew" by Phil Rickman.  Pretty good.  A decent "Gothic" ghost story/horror
  
   novel about a bunch of "New Agers" moving into an old town in England that
   happens to be the center of some really nasty ley-lines and other phenomena.
     I liked it.  No one outstanding image like many of the other novels had, 
   but it built up the creeps slowly and the payoff was worth it.  Recommended.


   Looking back, if I were to rate these 6 novels from best to worst as:

   "Dead in the Water"
   "Curfew"
   "The Black Mariah"
   "Dark of the Eye"
   "Deadweight"
   "X,Y"




#241 of 297 by brighn on Mon Aug 22 19:15:31 1994:

Non-fiction is my current drift:  amidst G. A. Mazis, "The Trickster,
Magician, and Greiving Man,"  men's spirituality for the anti-Bly.


#242 of 297 by rcurl on Tue Aug 23 04:09:14 1994:

We have an item 22 here in the books cf, on Non-Fiction - would you
like to tell us more about Mazis' book there? I didn't see the
connection between Non-Fiction and spirituality ;-).


#243 of 297 by kami on Tue Aug 23 15:46:02 1994:

it's not a fiction book: not a story.  Non-fiction in that it describes a way
of looking at the world.


#244 of 297 by brighn on Tue Aug 23 16:48:44 1994:

I think Rane was joking.  I HOPE Rane was joking.  You were joking, 
weren't you, Rane?


#245 of 297 by rcurl on Tue Aug 23 17:35:12 1994:

Sorta. On one hand, a great many ways of looking at the world invoke 
fiction. On the other, the world is non-fiction (I think). However
what was said (which was little) about the Mazis book did sound like
some of the former. So, I asked for more. 


#246 of 297 by brighn on Tue Aug 23 22:40:03 1994:

<moving it over to the non-fiction item>


#247 of 297 by md on Mon Oct 3 18:37:57 1994:

_S._, by John Updike.  I missed this novel when it first came out
back in 1988.  It's an epistolary novel consisting of letters and
cassette tapes produced mostly by a Boston matron named Sarah Worth.
(She signs her letters "S." sometimes, hence the strange title.)
In search of enlightenment, she leaves her husband and joins an
Ashram which Updike based loosely on the Rajneesh (sp?) rip-off in
Oregon a few years back.  Meanwhile, life goes on: her mother, her
daughter, her husband, her brother, her best friend, her dentist,
her yoga instructor - all these people continue to live and change
and evolve, in extremely funny ways.  Every page of this book drips
with irony, and there are some wonderful surprises in store for the
reader which I will not reveal in case anyone ever reads this book.


#248 of 297 by kami on Wed Oct 5 20:19:09 1994:

oh, that actually sounds like fun. I don't read much mainstream fiction.


#249 of 297 by nicely on Sun Dec 18 06:01:56 1994:

I just finished reading "Wide Sargasso Sea" it's kind of a prequel
to Jane Eyre... It's by Jean Rhys if anyone is interested.



#250 of 297 by md on Sat Oct 14 15:12:08 1995:

The Library of America edition of Robert Frost arrived.  It has 
all of his published poetry, many uncollected poems, and a 
selection of letters, essays, speeches and interviews.  I already 
have almost everything in this book, and then some.  (I carry a 
great deal of it permanently around in my head, as a matter of 
fact.)  What's worth the price of the book all by itself, to me, 
is the very last piece: a transcription of a talk Frost gave at 
Spaulding Auditorium in the then-new Hopkins Center at Dartmouth 
College in late 1962, a few months before his death.  I was there 
and remember the talk well.  We'd been told beforehand that if we 
brought editions of his poems with us he'd sign them.  I lined up 
with the other students after Frost's talk.  I gave him my book 
to sign, told him how much I loved his poetry, and shook his 
hand.  

In writing my own poetry, I find it very hard not to speak in 
Frost's voice.  I once wrote a little poem about not burning 
leaves in autumn:

   The oak tree's loss should be the oak tree's gain.
   Consider the logistics: after rain
   You can pick half the yard up on one stroke
   To carry dripping to the hole, but smoke 
   Is hard to handle, even when it's wet.
   Lift smoke some day and see how far you get.

Note the plain language, the colloquial scansion, the one-
syllable words (three of the six lines are nothing but).  The 
general tone is that of Frost's "Spades pick up leaves no better 
than spoons, And bags full of leaves are as light as balloons."  
The last line is a deliberate echo of the last line of Frost's 
poem "Maple" (qv, by all means).  

New LoA editions in the past have sometimes prompted 
reassessments of the authors, but I don't see this happening with 
Frost.  He has his audience.  It isn't likely to grow much.  




#251 of 297 by lilmo on Wed Oct 18 20:20:13 1995:

What is 'qv'?


#252 of 297 by md on Wed Oct 18 20:22:25 1995:

(quod vide = "which see" -- means, "go look it up.")


#253 of 297 by lilmo on Fri Nov 10 08:08:55 1995:

Thanks!


#254 of 297 by md on Mon Jun 10 14:57:55 1996:

Through a "bonus book" offering by a book club, I've acquired
a facsimile copy of the first (1855) edition of Leaves of Grass.
Strange feeling, reading this.


#255 of 297 by freida on Tue Jun 11 23:44:24 1996:

I recently finished reading the following books...
The Complete Book of Herbs by Lesley Bremness
The Healing Garden by Sue Minter
Aromatherapy - The Complete Guide to Plant and Flower Essences for Health and
Beauty by Daniele Ryman
I am currently reading The Healing Herbs by Michael Castleman and The
Illustrated Encyclopedia of Essential Oils by Julia Lawless.

Has anyone read any of the Witch World novels?  What did you think?


#256 of 297 by rcurl on Wed Jun 12 05:23:03 1996:

Have you read the Reader's Digest book _Magic and Medicine in Plants_?
It is quite sketchy (like the Reader's Digest itself), but has a modicum
of interesting or leading information. A good feature is that *toxic*
plants are prominantly noted. 


#257 of 297 by md on Wed Jun 12 13:28:55 1996:

In the Synthesis conference there's an item about herbs (I think
it's still there) in which I entered a mini-review of the Reader's
Digest book.


#258 of 297 by rcurl on Wed Jun 12 18:44:27 1996:

Give me the # and I'll like it to books.


#259 of 297 by md on Wed Jun 12 19:56:29 1996:

Item #16 in Synthesis.  It's already linked to something.


#260 of 297 by rcurl on Thu Jun 13 02:15:26 1996:

Hmmm...."book" occurs 24 times in 84 responses in that item. Not very
booky. Maybe someone wants to start a "Herb *Book*" item here?


#261 of 297 by omni on Thu Jun 13 05:47:13 1996:

 Just finished "Motown", great book, absolutly one of the ten best I have read
in all my years of reading. I will be Estleman's No 1 fan for some yrs to
come.!


#262 of 297 by freida on Thu Jun 13 08:57:48 1996:

As a matter of fact, that book (reader's digest one) was mentioned by the
Herbs for Health magazine as being a good one to get.  I would love to see
the mini-review.  Thanks.  Are you going to link it Rane?


#263 of 297 by md on Thu Jun 13 15:31:46 1996:

I entered a new item here, Freida.  See below.


#264 of 297 by freida on Fri Jun 14 00:18:39 1996:

Thanks md, I'm going there now!


#265 of 297 by md on Mon Jun 24 14:12:42 1996:

_The Pagan Rabbi and Other Stories_ by Cynthia Ozick.  

Syracuse University Press is publishing a nice uniform edition of 
Ozick's books, in paperback format, under their "Library of Modern 
Jewish Literature" imprint.  Ozick is certainly a Jewish writer, but 
not so thoroughly Jewish in her themes as to warrant inclusion in a 
"Library of Modern Jewish Literature."  My opinion, anyway.  But I'm 
glad to see this beautiful new edition, be it by whomsoever it may.  

I've always loved Ozick's work.  I clipped her "Eliot at 101" piece 
out of the New Yorker several years ago and filed it in a book of 
Eliot's letters, where I reread it every once in a while.  Very 
uncharacteristic of me, but Ozick has that effect on me.  Anyway, I 
intend to collect the Syracuse editions.  The stories in _The Pagan 
Rabbi_ date from the '60s and early '70s, and if I ever read any of 
them I've long since forgotten.  

No excerpt can give the full effect of her writing, with its long 
ruminative asides, stream-of-consciousness, weird plot twists, acid 
social satire, and deep humanity, all of it functional, there for a 
purpose.  Here's an excerpt from the story "Envy; or, Yiddish in 
America" in this collection which might at least give you an idea of 
the wickedness of her observations, and also the fact that even at her 
most "Jewish" she is still wonderfully readable: 

   "The new Temples scared Edelshtein.  He was afraid to use the word 
   _shul_ in these places -- inside, vast mock-bronze Tablets, mobiles 
   of outstretched hands rotating on a motor, gigantic dangling 
   Tetragrammatons in transparent plastic like chandeliers, platforms, 
   altars, daises, pulpits, aisles, pews, polished oak bins for 
   prayerbooks printed in English with made-up new prayers in them.  
   Everything smelled of wet plaster.  Everything was new.  The 
   refreshment tables were long and luminous -- he saw glazed cakes, 
   snowheaps of egg salad, herring, salmon, tuna, whitefish, gefilte 
   fish, pools of sour cream, silver electric coffee urns, bowls of 
   lemon-slices, pyramids of bread, waferlike teacups from the Black 
   Forest, Indian brass trays of hard cheeses, golden bottles set up 
   in rows like ninepins, great sculptured butter-birds, Hansel-and-
   Gretel houses of cream cheese and fruitcake, bars, butlers, fat 
   napery, carpeting deep as honey.  He learned their term for their 
   architecture: 'soaring.'  In one place -- a flat wall of beige 
   brick in Westchester -- he read scripture riveted on in letters 
   fashioned from 14-karat gold molds: 'And thou shalt see My back; 
   but My face shall not be seen.'"

Highest recommendation, for Jews and goyim alike.


#266 of 297 by adania on Sat Jun 29 22:11:37 1996:

I really feel uncomfortable in new syagogues...I cannot worship in them at
aall.

I recently read "Nine Princes in Amber" and was quite impressed.  I have never
read any Zelazney before and was pleasantly surprised.


#267 of 297 by matthew on Thu Jul 4 09:53:40 1996:

I'd reccomend Jack of Shadows or the Madwand set by Zelazny next (after you
finish the rest of the first Amber series, I'd not reccomend the 2nd Amber
series though)


#268 of 297 by adania on Mon Jul 8 21:06:09 1996:

Why not?  Is the second series bad?


#269 of 297 by matthew on Thu Jul 11 08:05:55 1996:

The first 3 books are pretty good, but #'s 4 and 5 are not good at all.


#270 of 297 by kanni on Tue Oct 21 13:11:40 1997:

Hi guys . I'm new here . Ever heard of R.K.Narayan , an acclaimed Indian
Author ?


#271 of 297 by mziemba on Sat Nov 1 11:13:40 1997:

I'm hoping this is the right general item for books.  I'm just starting to
poke around in the book conference...


#272 of 297 by diznave on Mon Nov 3 21:36:59 1997:

Sorry, Mark...this item has a *very* specific topic.  ;->


#273 of 297 by md on Mon Nov 9 15:05:36 1998:

Bech at Bay, by John Updike.  I love Updike's Henry Bech stories
better than almost any of his other fiction.  Here is where Updike gets
to unleash the Tom Wolfe side of his nature -- the cheerfully nasty
social critic who hits a bullseye with every shot, only with Updike there's
a lurking affection for his targets that Wolfe seems to lack (but I
haven't read Wolfe's new novel yet, or even Updike's review of it
in the new New Yorker, so I should suspend judgment).  This book is
a gem.  Highly recommended.


#274 of 297 by md on Fri Jun 18 17:17:32 1999:

The Sacred Depths of Nature, by Ursula Goodenough.

The author is described on the jacket as Professor of 
Biology at Washington University, author of a best-selling
textbook on genetics, and one of America's leading cell
biologists.  One of the jacket blurbs compares her to
Loren Eisley and Lewis Thomas.  I "met" her through the 
Scientific Pantheism list, which I read whenever I have the 
time.

The book offers scientific explanations and examinations
of various phenomena.  Goodenough repeatedly affirms
her non-belief in a supernatural deity of any kind, and yet
she is a deeply religious woman in her own way -- hence
the book's title.  You will sometimes get the feeling that
she's not entirely sincere -- that this is a well-meaning
effort by a scientist to reconcile two warring camps, science 
and religion.  But then she'll make some passing comment 
to the effect that she goes to church and sings the hymns 
with everyone else, and you realize that she is absolutely 
sincere.  Neither atheist nor theist nor even agnostic, but 
a person who recognizes the religious impulses in her to
praise and give thanks as arising from her physical nature,
from the very cells of her body.  She isn't afraid of those 
impulses, she embraces them and honors them.  Here's a 
quote, from a section headed "Gratitude":

   "Imagine that you and some other humans are in a 
spaceship, roaming around in the universe, looking for a
home.  You land on a planet that proves to be ideal in every
way.  It has deep forests and fleshy fruits and surging
oceans and gentle rains and cavorting creatures and
dappled sunlight and rich soil.  Everything is perfect for
human habitation, and everything is astonishingly beautiful.
   "This is how the religious naturalist thinks of our human
advent on Earth.  We arrived but a moment ago, and found it
to be perfect for us in every way.  And then we came to
understand that it is perfect because we arose from it and 
are a part of it.
   "Hosanna!  Not in the highest, but right here, right now, this.
   "When such gratitude flows from our beings, it matters little
whether we offer it to God or to Mystery or Coyote or Cosmic
Evolution or Mother Earth."


#275 of 297 by rcurl on Fri Jun 18 20:55:17 1999:

Sound like she feels compelled to attribute her awe, wonder, amazement,
or whatever is the emotion she is responding to, to something else,
rather than realizing it arises within herself. 


#276 of 297 by md on Fri Jun 18 23:09:10 1999:

"Neither atheist" I say "neither atheist nor theist nor 
even agnostic, but a person who recognizes the religious 
impulses in her to praise and give thanks as arising from 
her physical nature, from the very cells of her body.  
She isn't afraid of those impulses, she embraces them and 
honors them."


#277 of 297 by rcurl on Sat Jun 19 05:13:53 1999:

I agree that she apparently experiences a strong romantic emotion. 
Nothing wrong with that - it leads to art, in many forms. 


#278 of 297 by jazz on Sat Jun 19 15:12:29 1999:

        Externalising one's emotions is metaphor.  It comes naturally to us.
So naturally, in fact, that we mistake the metaphors within our own minds made
out of reconstructed images, sounds, and feelings, for things outside our own
skull.

        The point being, don't be silly.  If someone has something theistic
to say, great.  If someone has something atheistic to say, also great.


#279 of 297 by bookworm on Sat Jun 19 20:00:12 1999:

That's very profound, John.


#280 of 297 by md on Sun Jun 20 00:57:07 1999:

Actually, Goodenough's purpose is "to outline the
foundations for a planetary ethic that would make
no claim to supplant existing traditions but would
seek to coexist with them, informing our global
concerns while we continue to orient our daily 
lives in our cultural and religious contexts."
Reverence for nature, for reality, which we can
all respond to, is her starting point.  Without a
common ethical language, she says, we can never
address such planetary concerns as "climate, 
ethnic cleansing, fossil fuels, habitat preservation,
human rights, hunger, infectious disease, nuclear
weapons, oceans, ozone layer, pollution, population"
She says, "Humans need stories -- grand, compelling
stories -- that help to orient us in our lives and
in the cosmos.  The Epic of Evolution is such a
story, beautifully suited to anchor our search for
planetary consensus, telling us of our nature, our
place, our context."  Her churchgoing is bound to
put her beyond the pale for closed-minded "humanists,"
just as her atheism and her reverence for "the Epic of
Evolution" will make her anathema with the fundamentalist
Christians at the other extreme.  Still, I'd love to
see her tolerance and her love for Nature spread, and
I believe it, or something very like it, will.

Oxford University Press, 1998.  Highly recommended.


#281 of 297 by rcurl on Sun Jun 20 01:27:06 1999:

I don't know any "closed minded humanists" - in fact, it is
a contradiction in terms. But given how steeped humanity is in
mysticism, hers might help "bridge the gap". I'll probably
read it to see how such romanticists really seek a similar
goal as the humanists.


#282 of 297 by mcnally on Sun Jun 20 04:24:01 1999:

  re #281:  it's at times like these that I wonder whether
  Rane isn't secretly a fanatical theist agent provacateur...


#283 of 297 by md on Sun Jun 20 11:02:02 1999:

Lol.  I, for one, would be very disappointed to
see his cover blown.


#284 of 297 by mary on Sun Jun 20 11:37:53 1999:

I have not read anything by this author but from what has been quoted
about her here I'm somewhat surprised Micheal finds her a satisfying read. 
She sounds like she's into fluffy "feel-good while we all hold hands in
the woods" type of theology.  Maybe L.L. Bean will sell her book? 

But then I don't think of compromise for the sake of agreement as any
great virtue.  I have far more respect for finely crafted individual
values than group think.  I see no need for us to all come together.  I'd
rather we simply worked on tolerating, even appreciating each other as
individuals. 



#285 of 297 by md on Sun Jun 20 12:54:01 1999:

No theology.  She is an *atheist*, as I said.  (Ahem.)
Also, she does strike me as a Very Nice Person, but
there's nothing "fluffy" about her, except, evidently,
the impression I'm giving of her here.


#286 of 297 by md on Sun Jun 20 13:00:43 1999:

[But she does use the word "resonate" a lot, Mary.
You might like her.]  ;-)


#287 of 297 by mary on Sun Jun 20 13:11:47 1999:

I understood just fine that she is an atheist, Michael.
There are fluffy-thinking atheists out there in
the woods too, rejoicing right along with the Baptists. ;-)



#288 of 297 by mary on Sun Jun 20 13:15:19 1999:

(Mary tries to remember if she's ever used the word
 resonate on-line.  In cello lessons, maybe, but
 online?) ;-)


#289 of 297 by rcurl on Sun Jun 20 18:03:25 1999:

I'm a radio amateur, so I'm into resonators.


#290 of 297 by md on Mon Jun 21 03:09:53 1999:

rotfl


#291 of 297 by bookworm on Tue Jun 22 16:13:53 1999:

Everybody Resonate!  :-)


#292 of 297 by orinoco on Tue Jun 22 16:34:29 1999:

(is Ursula Goodenough her real name, or a pseudonym?)


#293 of 297 by md on Tue Jun 22 17:28:43 1999:

It's her real name, as far as I know.  It's probably
pronounced "goodno" or something.


#294 of 297 by md on Tue Jun 22 18:06:23 1999:

Dr. Goodenough's employer's website has some
information about her:

http://biosgi.wustl.edu/faculty/ursula.html

Here's the Oxford University Press page about her book,
and a review of her book in a recent Scientific American:

http://www.oup-usa.org/docs/0195126130.html

http://www.sciam.com/1999/0599issue/0599reviews1.html

Here's a review by Goodenough in The AMerican Scientist 
of Steven Jay Gould's new book:

http://www.amsci.org/amsci/bookshelf/Leads99/Goodenough.html


#295 of 297 by lilmo on Mon Jun 28 23:56:26 1999:

Am I fluffy-thinking?  Would I be able to tell, if I was?


#296 of 297 by swa on Fri Sep 24 03:29:20 1999:

I'm currently about half way through Dickens' _Bleak House_, one of those
books that everybody said I had to read, so I finally did.  I'm finding
myself much more agreeable to reading Good Literature now that I'm out of
school and don't have it forced down my throat... sigh... I'm enjoying the
book immensely -- it's been years since I've read any Dickens and I love
his writing style and his delightful characters -- but I find it goes
slowly.  I'm on page five hundred and something out of nearly nine
hundred, and have been reading other things along with it which makes it
go even more slowly.  (Most recently my supplementary reading has been
comics, to inoculate me, I suppose, against Good Literature, but I've
finished most of the comics lying around and will now probably pick up an
interesting non-fiction book of some kind...)  Anyway... nifty book, and
is helping me to get over my school-induced prejudice against nineteenth
century literature.  


#297 of 297 by lilmo on Sat Sep 25 01:49:35 1999:

I go through phases every once in a while when I force myself to read things
I think I "ought" to read.  As it is, I often at least try to find an old
classsic, or a biography, before I leave the library with my stack of "fun"
books.  I often end up enjoying them, which is a good thing, I think.  :-)


You have several choices: