This item is for discussion of the GNU/Linux system originally written by Finnish (then) student Linus Torvalds. Linux has since grown to be the premier open source project, running on a huge number of machines with thousands of contributers and perhaps millions of users. Many distributions of the basic Linux kernel and GNU utilities exist, and Linux is unique in that "Linux" refers to the system's kernel which is maintained separate from any specific distribution. The Linux kernel is available free (with source code) under the GNU Public License, and is often bundled with GNU utilities leading the distributions to be frequently referred to as "GNU/Linux."79 responses total.
Does Linux support external Firewire devices such as hard disks, DVD-RAM drives and camcorders? Does it support IP networking over Firewire? Can today's Linux connect to an 802.11g LAN that uses WPA with a private shared key?
I imagine it depends on the exact distribution used, but I have a hard time believing that the answer to all of those questions is not `yes' for the major distributions.
Linux has had firewire disk support for quite some time. PC BIOSes may not support (in fact, usually do not support) booting from Firewire, however. CD and DVD burners are a little more complicated, because it depends on the application software. My understanding (which is limited) is that handling of Firewire peripherals is done through a sort of SCSI emulation layer and that handling of CD and DVD burners is *also* done through a sort of SCSI emulation layer, so I would recommend testing first or asking someone who has a configuration similar to the one you have. As far as video cameras are concerned, I don't know. The laptop I'm typing this on currently is connected to my 802.11g WAP, which uses a WEP key (I know it's not secure.) The version of Ubuntu which I am using has a nice little GUI configuration widget to enter the key and everything (though of course I'm sure there are also command line equivalents..) And my Ubuntu distro is more than a year old (I'm running 5.10, I believe) and things have probably been refined further since then. Nowadays, for example, I believe there are native drivers for the Broadcom chipset my Dell laptop uses, which eliminate the need to use the awkward (but better-than-nothing) ndiswrapper utility to load the Windows drivers.
I can see DVD-R, DVD-R/W, DVD+R, DVD+R/W, CD-R and CD-R/W being dependent on application software, but DVD-RAM seems to present itself to the host system as though it were a hard disk with 2K sectors. I don't anticipate using any 'burning' software with that, although I suppose I would need it when using DVD-R media in the same drive.
OK, I haven't used a DVD-RAM device. If that's the way they work you'd probably be able to use them under Linux fairly easily. A 5-second Google search could probably give you a real answer, though, rather than a guess.
So far the only thing I have needed Windows for is to run Win32 modem upgrade programs from USR. Linux could probably do it with Windows emulation. I write CDs and play DVDs but have never seen a DVD-RAM.
I would be surprised if Linux granted that kind of hardware access to an emulated environment, although if it were an external serial modem it might still work. I have three DVD -RAM disks and a borrowed DVD-RAM drive. It doesn't work with NetBSD, probably because of the 2K sectors. It might work with -current. I'll test it if I can get -current to build.
As far as wireless goes, I recommend staying away from Linksys, and doing the same with Broadcom (or supplementing inbuilt laptop broadcom with something that works (for Linux/BSD values of "works"). (I never had any joy with NDISwrapper.))
I shudder at the thought of NDISwrapper. Native binary drivers are bad enough without resorting to that kind of evil. I suppose binary drivers are a fact of life in Linux though. :-/
Linksys WPC11 ver. 3 works with hermes and orinoco drivers, and kernel 2.4. Cisco aironet 340 works with kernel 2.4 or 2.2 and has better range.
Ignoring the moral rhetoric of evil, you will find a much easier time by using a wireless board that is known to work natively in your environment. I believe Orinoco wireless boards are known to work well, as are older Aeronet boards (though the Cisco webpage will lead you around in circles when you go to look for the Aeronet drivers for Linux). You may want to look on your vendor's webpage to see if there is a list of wireless boards known to work well. - SuSE Linux Enterprise: http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Network_Adapters_(Wireless) - CentOS (If there's a Y at the end of the line, the driver is compiled into the kernel itself, if there is an M at the the end of it, the driver is available as a module.): http://wiki.centos.org/HardwareList/centos4-config?action=AttachFile&do=g et&target=config-2.6.9-42.0.2.plus.c4 - Slackware refers you to a generic Linux Hardware Compatibility booklet: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO/ - Debian refers you to the same document that Slackware does. - RedHat's webpage is currently down for maintanance - Mandriva maintains a searchable Hardware Compatibility database for its Mandrake Linux product: http://www.mandriva.com/en/hardware - I can't seem to find any useful information on TurboLinux's webpage - Ubuntu (Intel): https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/i386/hardware-supp orted.html If you use a different version of Linux, you will need to search the vendor's site for more informaiton
You really have to be careful with wireless cards. Manufacturers frequently change the chipsets inside them without changing the model number. I still find them to be pretty hit-or-miss in Linux.
unlucky
don't use firewire but WPA/PSK works for me with a netgear card and madwifi drivers + wpa_supplicant. also had it working with some intel/broadcomm chipsets.
Thanks for the data point. I have a wireless card working on a beta of NetBSD 4, using wpa_supplicant. I haven't tried Firewire since upgrading.
Has anyone tried using apt-get/dpkg with Linux - Is there a way to select between file:/ and http:// while installing a pkg?? I have copied deb iso's 1-4 to disk and made them accessible to apt-get via file:/whatever, in sources.list. I also have the http:// lines. Most times i want to install from CD but sometimes i need to install from the net, which is why i have retained the http:// lines. Now if i do a apt-get install something, most times because the online repo's have the latest copy, apt will download the package!! So i keep the http:// lines hashed out BUT then every time i unhash them to DL something, i need to apt-get update - that re-downloads the meta-data and i lose around 5-6MB/event! Also un-hashing is a pain in the butt! Can't i tell apt to just use the disk files or to ignore the latest-version??? I DON'T want to use dpkg -i because it involves a lot of typing (long path and then i have to hunt for the pkg-files on disk)! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, is there a decent color picker tool for Linux. I'm not running KDE/Gnome because it's way too slow! I want some sort of stand-alone app that is light and can support ANSI, RGB, Hexadecimal notation. It should also show how things look for some sample text. Anything?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Any way to unload all the kernel modules that debian loads? I don't use USB/Parallel Port/Thermal/Processor/rtc/pcspkr/ and many more. I googled it and some sites suggest blacklisting, but the man pages seem to indicate a different purpose (man modprobe.conf)?? ------------------------------------------------------------------- I've already asked on USENET (they are slow as molasses) and IRC/local-LUG (they didn't know). Any decent online resources??
It looks like that might be something you can accomplish with apt preferences (man apt_preferences)
Re #17: Working :) Not quite what i wanted, but good enough i hope. Package: * Pin: origin "" Pin-Priority: 999 If it's a completely new package that's not on disk then it will do a net install; also, if the pkg exists on disc and the net has a newer version it will do a disc install which is great! BUT, what if i want the latest package that is on disc?? I'm generally content with a old version of emacs/xmms/WM, BUT i do want the latest xchat/browser packages. Found a great color picker in xcolors! But, the clicking to scroll up and down is a pain (it has no "drag the scrollbar"). You have to right and left click, to move up and down. WTH is Linux brilliantly elegant in some ways and totally f! in other ways! Grr! kernel modules: apparently blacklisting is the correct way but the syntax is weird: install module-name /bin/true . Thanks mcnally. PS: Time is acting weird!! hwclock --localtime --systohc sets the time okay in Linux but in Windows it's gets completely broken! If i use nisttime.exe in windows, then Linux gets broken! I think windows is using utc whereas i'm setting localtime on Linux. FUD! <sigh> (But I'm liking Debian - it's almost perfect.
Re #18: time got fixed. Windows uses localtime, Linux was using UTC in it's config file and hwclock --systohc --utc was breaking because of the UTC value in the cfg file (and it's undocumented to boot Grr!)
NONSENSE! "This item is for discussion of the GNU/Linux system originally written by Finnish (then) student Linus Torvalds." Linus Torvalds wrote the Linux kernel - not the GNU/Linux system. Shit! Give Eric S. Raymond some credit for founding GNU and the FSF, and the GNU developers for making Linux possible FOR ONCE! I realize that GNU is credited elsehwere as being seperate from Linux in the post BUT the first line is still utter nonsense.
Good point.
re #20: > Give Eric S. Raymond some credit for founding GNU and the FSF, and the > GNU developers for making Linux possible FOR ONCE! Umm.. speaking of "NONSENSE!" Do you want to take another shot at that?
*cough*Richard Stallman*cough*
Yeah, don't mess with him or he'll come after you with his katana.
it is very interesting.But i facing my problems while writing programs. It is very difficulty to remember commands.
dude, just do ls /bin /usr/bin /usr/sbin to find command names and then man cmdName for more information on the command. Eventually with usage, you will remember. You can also press the Tab key to auto-complete if you use the bash shell. So: ifc<Tab> should auto-complete the command for you. If it doesn't press <Tab> again and you should get a list of commands that match the letters ifc.
I use lines like: alias net-pf-10 off in /etc/modprobe.conf Generally I don't bother with things like USB and lp and such as they are so tiny. A Few hundred K out of a few hundred M isn't worth the effort. I do disable various kernel modules for security reason. I would disble USB if people stealing data on USB keyfobs were a worry for me on that system, or IPv6 when I don't want to have to chase firewall rules and daemon configs when IPv6 won't be used anyway.
This could happen to you... http://xkcd.com/456/
remmers, that's true!!
Are people still actively using GNU/Linux around here? I just left working for the Free Software Foundation after four years, but remain a GNU developer -- GNU FM and GNU social are my two projects, and I found Grex because I am looking to set up a Backtalk system for some fellow GNU developers. Hello.
My daughter's PC runs Qimo and (the machine that is theoretically) my primary desktop PC runs Xubuntu.
My suspicion is that a lot of people are probably still running GNU/Linux (and yeah, I messed up saying that the entire system was written by Torvalds; I should have proofed better before publishing).
Well, to answer whether or not people use GNL/Linux, in the scope of free software it has the largest market share. As for folks around here, I'm guessing that more advanced users have opted for a BSD variant? I know a guy who is very interested in unix systems and he recomended DragonflyBSD as his personal favorite. I actually have a USB stick with an installation image from 2011, but as a new user I don't feel ready to venture there yet, as ubuntu has a ton of community support for people like me who are still learning.
Re. #33: I run NetBSD on some production servers.
Interestingly enough, I also use the Xubuntu distribution of Linux primarily, as with post #31. This is probably related to the unusual choice by Canonical to ship Ubuntu main version with an unconventional Desktop Environment. One of my recent hobby projects is to get an SGI O2 machine up and running, able to compile software. An experienced Unix admin suggested I get NetBSD onto it, rather then try to compile with the proprietary OS that it came with (IRIX) which is obsolete. It will be my chance to become more familiar with NetBSD. My current level of knowledge is such that it doesn't make much of a difference which OS I am working on, whether it be Linux or BSD variant. Bash scripting should be the same for simple scripts. I have a plan to check out the three oldest Linux distributions, in order of increasing difficulty: Ubuntu, then CentOS(RedHat) and finally Slackware. What I will be able to practically do with that knowledge is not determined, but I have little planning in my life and a person has to start somewhere. And finally, I suppose I will rise up to the level of knowing the importance of differences between the OSes, and I can check out OpenBSD here, NetBSD on my O2 (if I ever get it running) and FreeBSD somehow. FreeBSD seems to be the OS of choice for many free shell accounts out there, so it shouldn't be a problem to find one for tinkering with, though for me right now I'm only starting with bash scripts, so it doesn't matter which OS I am working with right now... as long as I can script without fear of erasing my important files with some silly mistake.
YOu can get a free NetBSD shell account at http://sdf.org. Very reliable and a good internet connection but sometimes things get a bit clogged. I often have to wait 20-30 sec while writing emails. $1 or so to get verified gives you the use of a lot more programs (one time fee). There are a lot of linux live CDs.
Grex's span of life on OpenBSD is coming to an end: the new hardware will run (indeed, is already running) FreeBSD.
Can you explain why the change?
Yes.
Cool. I look forward to the changeover.
(And I assume there will be a more detailed and prominent announcement in Agora or Coop. I've been curious for a while about what's up with the new hardware and the changeover to FreeBSD.)
Yes. In a nutshell: the new hardware is at Tony's. There was (is?) a hardware problem in the new M-Net, and I'm trying to set up both Grex and M-Net to be as nearly identical as possible. Most of the work now is configuration and documentation. Almost everything is actually installed, however.
Nice!
I think FreeBSD is a good choice, especially given the history of Grex on OpenBSD and SunOS.
Yeah. OpenBSD was a huge mistake, and the two who pushed it so hard are MIA.
Do any of you think Linux use (not counting devices with embedded systems) is on the decline with OS X and iOS everywhere?
Desktops? Yes. Servers? No.
PCs as desktop computers in general are on the decline, so yeah; I agree with Nate.
In the server space, I can tell you that I have seen directly in both industry and Gov't it is growing and is a major platform for new roll- outs, replacing mainstays like Solaris and HP-UX (and even AIX in some places). In the desktop space, it has a moderate share of a decreasing platform, so it is slowly shrinking with the rest of the desktop space.
Desktop space. Server space. Hey, what about the MOBILE space? In the mobile space, Linux is growing by leaps and bounds. Any of the bazillion folks with a smartphone running Android is carrying (a heavily Googlefied version of) Ubuntu Linux in their pocket or purse.
Android has almost nothing to do with ubuntu.
Resp:51 AFAIK, Android is a modified Linux kernel, which bootstraps a JVM and a custom java-based user-space in-lieu of init. It is only nominally Linux-based, and has little or nothing to do with Linux, other than pedigree.
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Ah, I appear to have been mistaken about the Ubuntu part. Was looking at this: http://elinux.org/Android_Architecture.
I've never heard of that site.
Resp:55 Interesting. I'd not seen that, though it clarifies what I understood of the Android architecture.
Here's a capsule summary of the role of the Linux kernel in Android, written by Google software engineer Robert Love. Linux kernel with minimal changes, heavily redesigned user space. http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/05/13/what-are-the-major-changes- that-android-made-to-the-linux-kernel/ (http://goo.gl/Tr9nvy)
Robert sits a couple of desks down from me; really nice guy. Anything in particular you'd like me to ask him?
Please ask him if Chromecast is going to support Amazon streaming. Oh wait, that's probably not his department. Never mind. Anyway, the main point of my original response was that in gauging the extent of OS usage, nowadays you should consider mobile devices as well as PCs and servers, especially since smartphones and tablets are being used for many of the same purposes as PCs. And if you're willing to consider Android as a flavor of Linux, then Linux deployment is really quite extensive and growing.
I guess I've been thinking that for the last half a decade or so, so it comes as a surprise to me that that's something people are only recently starting to consider.
Not too surprising. People are often slow to shift mental gears in the face of rapid technological change.
Mobile devices have been starting to hit the business world more and more in the past couple years. Before that, using personal devices for work may have been disallowed (e.g. keeping company files and information on them, not cellphone usage which has been around for a long time). Now, it seems businesses are starting to acknowledge that personal smartphones and tablets may have a place at work (maybe even to reduce the cost of company-supplied devices). So, that would be why, for people who do not work at more liberal companies, it seems more recent. And by the way, no, I can't use my own devices for doing work, even today. That may change; however, for regulated industries, the need to control company files would argue against it (absent any security measures to ensure those files don't end up in the wrong hands or change inappropriately when on personal devices). So, this does not surprise me.
resp:62 The iPhone runs a modified Mach/BSD kernel as well (that is, iOS uses some variant of the XNU kernel). resp:63 Please tell me you aren't using a motorola flip phone still. :-) Put another way, I think it has less to do with what's going on in businesses; this is about consumer consciousness. Linux shows up in a lot of seemingly surprising places in the consumer space, in addition to industrial and business uses, but its use is often unseen, either by design or just because it's not something people stop to think about. Wireless "routers", switches, firewalls, etc; many of the consumer boxes you buy at Best-Buy run some variant of Linux. Same (I believe) with some set-top boxes and the like. What OS does your fridge run? Would anyone even think to wonder that (I doubt I would). And apparently, Linux can even make coffee: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Coffee/#s2
No I don't use a flip phone. I have an Android smartphone. I just can't use it at all for any work-related activities.
But you know it boots a Linux kernel, right? :-)
Sure. And having businesses provide or allow such devices just fuels the demand. So, that's why I mentioned it. Sometimes I want to go back to my flip phone, though :-)
My LG Optimus has given me several years of good service but the battery life has declined to the point where if I'm not near a charger it will turn itself off before lunch time. It's also short of RAM and the processor's slow by today's smartphone standards which hampers performance with modern apps. I have a company-issue smartphone that does my work-related things (email, calendar, iperf, ssh etc.) so I have been thinking of moving back to a simple flip-phone for my personal use.
Cell phone batteries can be very cheap on ebay.
And they are cheap batteries, too.
Mine for $2.50 works fine.
Re. 69: It has been years since I bought anything via eBay, mostly because of past disappointments there. I considered a new battery but the phone has a some other issues that reflect its age. I'm not complaining. It has given me good service over the years. I'm quite tempted by the flip phone. My main reservation is that I wouldn't be able to use it as a WiFi hotspot on the days when my cable Internet connection isn't working.
I just bought Jim a nearly new (returned in package) Virgin Mobile Kyocera Rise for $20.50 including shipping. It is very similar to what I paid $50 for last year but a year newer with Android 4 instead of 2.3.4. For $12 I could have had the same thing without the physical keyboard. Wifi, GPS, voice to text. I am hoping he can use it to compose texts via voice. It even has a camera and speaker. I have had very few problems with ebay, the most notable being a Chinese American computer screen company that keeps listing the wrong type of screen for our laptop. They replaced it with another of the same and show a photo of the wrong one and wasted their own money on shipping both ways twice. The $2.50 battery works fine.
The flip phone I'm looking at is US$ 12 brand new. I'm going to miss being able to use the Internet while I'm standing in the middle of a cornfield but it will suffice for voice and text messages.
I found the phone (a Samsung Entro) for $8 new in Walgreens and was able to port my existing smartphone account to it. I get 300 minutes of talk and unlimited texts for US$ 25/month. I've been pleasantly surprised by the reception and audio quality and I charge it once or twice per week.
PagePlus gives you 250 minutes/month for $12, or 1200 for $30 with some data as well. Any Verizon phone. But the support people at Verizon were unable to help a friend 'program' a VN250 LG Cosmos that is known to work with Page Plus - claimed it had no 'MIN' number to change. $10/100 min (120 days). How did your garden do this summer? No frosts here yet.
If I change jobs and have to buy another smart phone for personal use, I may be able to move my existing plan to it. It has unlimited text and more-or-less unmetered data (throttled after 2 Gbytes but not cut off). I'm hoping to hang onto this plan.
haha, cell phone discussion. Not that far removed from topicality, given that Android uses the Linux kernel, at least.
If XNU counts as a BSD, then iOS is on-topic too.