Grex Agora47 Conference

Item 2: General Announcements

Entered by i on Wed Sep 24 10:51:09 2003:

This is the general announcements item - the first of several 
announcement items.  Later items are more specific - announcements 
about Grex, Grex system problems, why you're happy, why you're 
bummed, etc. 

If you have something general to announce to Grexers, this is the 
place to put it!
352 responses total.

#1 of 352 by dah on Wed Sep 24 11:22:37 2003:

k.


#2 of 352 by tpryan on Wed Sep 24 13:31:20 2003:

        Hey, I can keep up with the current agora!


#3 of 352 by clees on Thu Sep 25 14:13:47 2003:

the online photoalbum of my Coast to coast tour by bicycle can be found 
at: http://www.pixum.de/members/usabiker/
(bit blurry, maybe)


#4 of 352 by asddsa on Thu Sep 25 19:43:30 2003:

You sound like Sheldon Brown


#5 of 352 by keesan on Fri Sep 26 01:51:41 2003:

Re 3 - can you also put this URL in the item about grexer websites?
I look forward to getting a graphical browser working and looking at your bike
trip photos.


#6 of 352 by keesan on Fri Sep 26 20:27:44 2003:

I emailed vipla (who has been posting all over grex asking for help with
'changing websites') and offered to help him via email.  I asked where he was
from (assuming the perfect spelling and funny grammar were Chinese).  Turns
out he speaks Serbian and will probably be rather surprised to get an email
back from me in that language.


#7 of 352 by tpryan on Fri Sep 26 22:11:16 2003:

        Are Serbs known for writting on any wall they can find?


#8 of 352 by keesan on Sat Sep 27 00:16:41 2003:

No, nor are they known for the perfect spelling he was using.


#9 of 352 by dah on Sat Sep 27 00:41:39 2003:

"Hi everybady!I am new here.Send me some instructions?"


#10 of 352 by arnezthe on Sat Sep 27 15:47:09 2003:

hai Sindi Keesan i wanna know about you mail me in my mail add:
r_nezt@yahoo.com


#11 of 352 by keesan on Sat Sep 27 15:58:02 2003:

If you want to know about me try reading www.grex.org/~keesan (website).
Or type 
finger keesan


#12 of 352 by gelinas on Sun Sep 28 15:37:11 2003:

Something interesting from the University of Michigan:

"During the weekend of September 20, ITCS began filtering outbound e-mail
for viruses. Beginning the weekend of September 27, virus filtering will
also be done for incoming mail. For details, see:

        http://www.itd.umich.edu/techresources/filtering.html
"


#13 of 352 by asddsa on Sun Sep 28 16:32:16 2003:

UNLUCKY


#14 of 352 by tpryan on Sun Sep 28 18:09:59 2003:

re 12,  Seems like a good idea.  Why pass on 150k of useless message
or harmful message where the only thing the person did was to have
a know email adddress.


#15 of 352 by fuzzman on Mon Sep 29 14:30:30 2003:

re: 12, seems like a silly idea, since most viruses have their own built-in
SMTP server and wouldn't be going through the University's mail server anyway.


#16 of 352 by mdw on Mon Sep 29 19:46:41 2003:

How many people do you know who choose to use a virus as their mail
hosting service?


#17 of 352 by mcnally on Mon Sep 29 20:42:22 2003:

  Not counting those using MS Exchange Server?


#18 of 352 by mdw on Mon Sep 29 22:15:50 2003:

Not counting that or linux either.


#19 of 352 by remmers on Tue Sep 30 01:35:28 2003:

Re #16: That's what I was wondering too.


#20 of 352 by gull on Tue Sep 30 13:33:08 2003:

I don't know what the university does, but where I work we filter
outgoing connections to port 25.  All outgoing mail has to go through
the mail server.  This is an obstacle to viruses but not a very high
one, since some of the newer viruses are smart enough to scan for
machines likely to be mail servers and try to relay through them.  Virus
scanning of outgoing mail on the server would provide better
containment, though.


#21 of 352 by tod on Tue Sep 30 23:39:14 2003:

This response has been erased.



#22 of 352 by asddsa on Thu Oct 2 02:40:05 2003:

You think someone would be able to read all of that?!


#23 of 352 by tsty on Thu Oct 2 08:40:12 2003:

pic is too fuzzy .. can you get a clearer shot? i have tranaslators avail.


#24 of 352 by dah on Thu Oct 2 11:31:37 2003:

TAKE IT TO DEERBORN!


#25 of 352 by tod on Thu Oct 2 15:07:39 2003:

This response has been erased.



#26 of 352 by edina on Fri Oct 3 21:08:14 2003:

I'd like to announce that I just saw an ad for Simon and Garfunkel - "Old
Friends" in concert on December 14th her in DC.  Um, anyone else know about
that?


#27 of 352 by gelinas on Fri Oct 3 21:34:49 2003:

They will be playing The Palace in Auburn Hills later this month; WEMU was
giving away tickets yesterday.  (They said the show is sold out.)

Yes, they've gotten back together.


#28 of 352 by glenda on Fri Oct 3 21:47:26 2003:

Two shows at the Palace, Oct 18 and 19.  Both sold out within a couple of
hours of opening sales.  Tickets went for $55.95-125.00.

They are saying that this is absolutely the last time.


#29 of 352 by tod on Fri Oct 3 21:55:13 2003:

This response has been erased.



#30 of 352 by happyboy on Fri Oct 3 23:54:55 2003:

re26: so what?


#31 of 352 by slynne on Sat Oct 4 16:42:53 2003:

I like Simon and Garfunkle but I am too cheap to go spend $56+ to see 
them at The Palace. sheesh


#32 of 352 by barnacle on Sun Oct 5 16:43:35 2003:

hello...new to grex. i have an account here, and one at sdf.lonestar.org too.
just wanted to say that grex and sdf have become my two new favorite charities
-- nonprofit UNIX groups offer the rare opportunity to be a misanthropic
philanthropist (philanthropistic misanthrope?) anyway.
http://www.deadbarnacle.net.


#33 of 352 by other on Sun Oct 5 17:11:29 2003:

Cool site, Matt.  Welcome to Grex.  I'd offer you the standard greeting 
("It Gets Easier(TM)"), but I suspect you're not finding it at all 
challenging already.


#34 of 352 by jor on Sun Oct 5 20:00:45 2003:

This response has been erased.



#35 of 352 by jor on Sun Oct 5 20:02:24 2003:

 
        I need a place to stay this week around AA/Ypsi,
        hopefully close to UM Hospitals, Kellogg Eye,
        St. Joe's, and WCC. I'm paying hotel rates
        and I'm sure someone can underbid them.
 
        I need tobacco-smoke free.




#36 of 352 by keesan on Sun Oct 5 23:31:17 2003:

My apartment is currently not in use and is walking distance (1-2 miles) from
U of M and we have a bike you could use.  What days do you need housing?
The apartment is only for heavy sleepers - bedroom below a kitchen which is
in use until midnight and starting at 6 am.  You can use the kitchen but we
have turned off the refrigerator.  The bathroom is in the basement and you
need to preheat it in advance before showering (electric space heater).
Also easy biking distance to Kellogg and there is a bus to St. Joes and WCC.

Phone 662-1520 for more information Monday 11-12 am or evening around 8-11
or any time after that.

Jaklumen and Julie have stayed there before.

Nobody has smoked in my apartment since 1987.

What are you in town for?


#37 of 352 by mynxcat on Mon Oct 6 16:43:33 2003:

I thought jor was in the AA-Ypsi area?


#38 of 352 by asddsa on Tue Oct 7 14:22:08 2003:

He posted the same thing on M-Net


#39 of 352 by albaugh on Tue Oct 7 21:19:40 2003:

Date:         Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:07:06 -0400
From: CNN Breaking News <BreakingNews@MAIL.CNN.COM>

-- Appeals court rules national "do-not-call" registry can be implemented
while court considers whether it violates telemarketers' free speech.


#40 of 352 by keesan on Tue Oct 7 22:05:50 2003:

Jor had a live-in job that ended just about the time he developed eye problems
and he was staying in a hotel temporarily.  Surgery Friday and he may stay
at Jim's for a few days so we can look after him until he recovers.  Right
now they are out checking spark plugs in jor's 1987 car (same age as Jim's
but automatic transmission).  Very nice and very helpful guy.  Then we will
show him my apartment for longer term use until both of us feel better.  He
can handle the stairs down to the bathroom there, I cannot easily yet.


#41 of 352 by russ on Wed Oct 8 02:18:17 2003:

RISKS digest volume 22 issues 92 and 93 are in the usual spot.


#42 of 352 by jor on Wed Oct 8 13:01:46 2003:

        Sindi and Jim are being very nice.
        I am of course being total pain in the ass.
        Jim is a gourmet cook.
        Jim is working on my car, which has been
        working very dependably. I am now a pedestrian.

        /unpacks walking shoes
        
        I tried to warn him that it's dangerous
        working on a rickety old car, better to
        leave well enough alone . .


#43 of 352 by tod on Wed Oct 8 16:39:46 2003:

This response has been erased.



#44 of 352 by keesan on Wed Oct 8 19:50:38 2003:

The car started today without doing anything different to it and the library
did not have the service manual for that model.  Jim is a vegan cook. He asked
me what spices to add to the lentil stew.  Jor (john) ended up at Jim's house
instead of my apartment and is being a perfect guest and unbelievably quiet.
Today they might put Win98 on the computer Jim found at the curb.

My apartment will need a few days of my time (next week when I am feeling
better) before anyone can get around in there with or without vision.  Jim
was sort of camping in there for a month while taking care of me and he claims
he does not know where to put anything away in the kitchen (despite having
taken it out in the first place).  I already removed the frying pan from a
chair and pie plate from the burner and he took the computer off the table
to bring here so we are making progress.  But jor is better off staying here
until he recovers from surgery and why move back and forth.  Jim seems happy
at the prospect of running a mini-recovery center and we can take care of each
other here.  It was getting sort of boring before.

Any further car repairs will have to wait until the man-eating ladybugs get
cold and go into hibernation.


#45 of 352 by tod on Wed Oct 8 20:25:13 2003:

This response has been erased.



#46 of 352 by dah on Wed Oct 8 21:05:54 2003:

Wait, Keesan and Jim broke jor's car?


#47 of 352 by carson on Wed Oct 8 21:21:46 2003:

(fantasy hockey begins today.)


#48 of 352 by gelinas on Wed Oct 8 21:23:51 2003:

I noticed today that the new span of the Broadway Bridges has been opened
to traffic, and the remaining old one is being demolished.


#49 of 352 by dah on Wed Oct 8 22:12:20 2003:

Except not the traffic of jor's car.


#50 of 352 by tpryan on Wed Oct 8 22:38:59 2003:

        So What is not eating the lady-bugs?


#51 of 352 by scott on Wed Oct 8 23:25:50 2003:

Yeah, the Broadway Bridge changeover happened over the weekend, I think.  They
didn't make any big deal about it; I used it Saturday and was surprised.  Sure
a lot nicer to bike on the new bike/pedestrian path.


#52 of 352 by other on Thu Oct 9 01:02:06 2003:

Depot street will be closed tomorrow, probably for the demo of the 
remaining span of the old bridge.


#53 of 352 by keesan on Thu Oct 9 12:36:14 2003:

The ladybugs were imported so nothing around here seems to eat them.
The curbside find is our fastest computer.  Win98 will run on a P166 just fine
and this is a P500.  The owners probably put it out because the PCI video card
stopped working.,  The onboard video (1024 res only) works fine.  The previous
owners left the 8G hard drive but removed the floppy drive with its holder
so Jim had to improvise to put in two hard drives (one is for DOS).  He made
his own cage (holder) out of something.

We now have two computers and three monitors all over the living room.


#54 of 352 by jor on Thu Oct 9 14:46:54 2003:

        I tried to drive north on Division to
        get on Plymouth the other day.

        Welcome back to AA.


#55 of 352 by remmers on Thu Oct 9 15:03:42 2003:

Right - doesn't work too well nowadays, unless you're into crashing
through barriers and driving on rubble.


#56 of 352 by jor on Thu Oct 9 15:43:20 2003:

        I'm into it. Just not prepared.



#57 of 352 by psyris on Thu Oct 9 17:17:30 2003:

Umm I just got really interested in Linux and I decided to get to 
Google and do some digging which is how I wound up here. Umm, I don't 
know much about how this stuff works but I'll be here every time I 
can. :) 

We're all one...


#58 of 352 by psyris on Thu Oct 9 17:18:38 2003:

Umm I just got really interested in Linux and I decided to get to 
Google and do some digging which is how I wound up here. Umm, I don't 
know much about how this stuff works but I'll be here every time I 
can. :) 

We're all one...


#59 of 352 by mdw on Thu Oct 9 18:57:37 2003:

Well, probably you want to go join jellyware.


#60 of 352 by remmers on Thu Oct 9 23:02:18 2003:

Sometimes Google takes you to the strangest places!  (Welcome to Grex,
by the way.)


#61 of 352 by mcnally on Fri Oct 10 00:14:30 2003:

  Grex isn't even close to qualifying as one of the "strangest places"
  Google might take you..


#62 of 352 by aruba on Fri Oct 10 02:38:50 2003:

Re #58: I'm not.

Welcome to Grex, psyris!


#63 of 352 by gelinas on Fri Oct 10 05:18:06 2003:

I used to be one, but I grew out of it.


#64 of 352 by gull on Fri Oct 10 13:43:42 2003:

Re #54: Has anyone warned you about the streets that used to be one-way
but aren't anymore, yet?


#65 of 352 by lynne on Fri Oct 10 14:25:27 2003:

re 63:  what, you used to be one of the strangest places?
<ps:  It Gets Easier (tm)--welcome!>


#66 of 352 by tsty on Fri Oct 10 14:40:05 2003:

has taht traffic-snarl idea already gone into practice?
  
which one-ways are now a mess?


#67 of 352 by gelinas on Fri Oct 10 15:28:18 2003:

(#63 was responding to the final thought of #57/#58 and the penultimate
thought in #62; I can't claim to not be strange.)

tsty, State Street, Liberty, Thompson, Maynard and North University are now
two-way their entire lengths.  When I've driven that area since the change,
I've found traffic to move much more smoothly, and parking a lot easier to
find.  No more swooping across several lanes of traffic to get to that open
spot on the other side of the street.


#68 of 352 by carson on Sat Oct 11 02:57:02 2003:

(I've found the complete opposite when driving through [data point
from last Saturday night, around 8pm].)


#69 of 352 by tsty on Sat Oct 11 03:09:15 2003:

yikes .. thankxx for the info - i did ask.
  
i guess i'l have to take a run at it some time soon. 
  
i tend to suspect carson's respoins is more appropriate than gelinas
but that is NOT a function of eitehr man, but rather a functin
of driver anticipations.
  
driving is an excercise in being aware of anomolies whilst anticipating
normality.
  
it could also be a function of the time of day ... we shall see.


#70 of 352 by cmcgee on Sat Oct 11 12:12:00 2003:

The State/Liberty/North U area gets very congested during home football
weekend, especially during the evenings. One person turning left on NU from
s-bound State, or left onto n-bound State from Liberty can tie up the
intersection for a full signal cycle.  Same for left on w-bound Liberty from
State.


#71 of 352 by slynne on Sat Oct 11 13:04:13 2003:

I wonder if it would help if they made part of State St and part of 
Liberty one way? hahaha j/k


#72 of 352 by krj on Sat Oct 11 20:02:32 2003:

For those who occasionally join the Saturday Grex Walk:  
The regular walking group is going to reset the walk start time to 
** 10:00 am **  which is where it was back when the walks started in 
the late 1980s.  Start times have drifted to about 10:30, now perhaps
pushing towards 10:40.
 
Lunch gatherings should be around 12:30.
 
Followup discussion in item:80


#73 of 352 by eskarina on Sun Oct 12 00:33:44 2003:

there were grexwalks in the late 80's?  ;)


#74 of 352 by mcnally on Sun Oct 12 01:34:14 2003:

  re #70:  You can turn left now from south-bound State onto North University?
  I *have* been away from Ann Arbor for a while..


#75 of 352 by krj on Sun Oct 12 03:36:48 2003:

(They began as M-net walks, but most of the walk people 
ended up on Grex as the community divided.)


#76 of 352 by russ on Sun Oct 12 05:07:47 2003:

RISKS digest volume 22 issues 94 and 95 are in the usual spot.
(They seem to come out in pairs now.)


#77 of 352 by remmers on Sun Oct 12 14:49:41 2003:

Re #74:  Yep, but you'd only have had to been away from Ann Arbor for
a short while to have missed the change.  The one-way stretches near
the intersection of State and Liberty were eliminated only a couple of
months ago.

Re #72:  Are walk announcements still published in the Observer?
If so, they should be revised to reflect the new start time.


#78 of 352 by aruba on Sun Oct 12 19:44:45 2003:

I think we should wait and see if the new start time sticks, before
contacting the Observer.  I think we've missed the November deadline anyway,
so let's at least wait until we've had a few successful 10:00 walks.


#79 of 352 by mary on Sun Oct 12 21:04:05 2003:

You might also want to consider calling them "ambles". ;-)


#80 of 352 by twenex on Mon Oct 13 14:59:11 2003:

There's a village called Amble in Northumberland county, England. Strangely
enough, I never heard of it going anywhere....


#81 of 352 by tpryan on Mon Oct 13 17:35:03 2003:

        Well, the Grexwalk is sure no mosey or shasshay.


#82 of 352 by remmers on Mon Oct 13 19:04:37 2003:

Now that the Grexwalk regularly includes small kids, it tends to
be a lot slower than it used to be.


#83 of 352 by tod on Mon Oct 13 20:04:23 2003:

This response has been erased.



#84 of 352 by remmers on Mon Oct 13 20:15:20 2003:

The reason comes from Euclidean geometry.  They tend not to walk in
straight lines.


#85 of 352 by rcurl on Mon Oct 13 20:48:07 2003:

But, being lighter, they have a greater mean-square velocity. 


#86 of 352 by mcnally on Mon Oct 13 20:52:44 2003:

  With the contours in the Arb I wouldn't think Euclidean geometry
  would be the best fit anyway..


#87 of 352 by albaugh on Wed Oct 15 04:22:24 2003:

Date:         Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:11:07 -0400
From: CNN Breaking News <BreakingNews@MAIL.CNN.COM>
Subject:      CNN Breaking News

-- China launches its first manned space mission,
     becoming third country to do so.


#88 of 352 by eskarina on Wed Oct 15 12:10:42 2003:

Well, they also tend to be in strollers that an adult person is 
pushing.  They are mostly in an upright position during the break, on 
the few grexwalks I've been on in the last couple of years.


#89 of 352 by tod on Wed Oct 15 16:19:34 2003:

This response has been erased.



#90 of 352 by janc on Wed Oct 15 19:11:16 2003:

I think the babies do slow down the walk, on average.  There are a few
more stops, and occasionally one of the little ones does want to
actually walk a little.  Dunno what exactly to do about that.


#91 of 352 by mary on Wed Oct 15 22:11:18 2003:

Nothing.  Enjoy it.  We'll meet you for lunch and get exercise on 
our own.


#92 of 352 by asddsa on Thu Oct 16 22:35:33 2003:

re 75 The community "divided" ?


#93 of 352 by keesan on Fri Oct 17 16:30:27 2003:

My bank just mailed out something telling us to protect American's future by
complying with the new Patriot Act.  When you open an account you now have
to provide proof of citizenship or residence.  This somehow will stop the
spread of terrorism. 'According to the FTC identity theft is the
fastest-growing crime in the country.  Our ability to feel safe it becoming
more difficult with terrorism and crime on a steady increase.  But there is
hope...'
Somehow the Patriot Act does not make me feel safer.


#94 of 352 by tod on Fri Oct 17 16:49:39 2003:

This response has been erased.



#95 of 352 by krj on Fri Oct 17 18:37:41 2003:

Just a reminder that Saturday (tomorrow) is the annual trip to the 
Dexter Cider Mill.  Lunch begins at the Lighthouse Cafe in downtown 
Dexter at around 12:30, we hope!


#96 of 352 by gull on Fri Oct 17 18:40:08 2003:

They are, however, required to check your name against a list of
suspects.  One Congresswoman found this out the hard way when her
attempts to wire money to her husband were repeatedly blocked.  The bank
eventually told her that his name matched one on some kind of list, but
refused to tell her more. Apparently it's secret.


#97 of 352 by tod on Fri Oct 17 18:55:35 2003:

This response has been erased.



#98 of 352 by gull on Fri Oct 17 19:16:22 2003:

"New USA Patriot Act regulations designed to thwart terrorist financing
require financial institutions to retain more personal data on their
customers and to take rigorous steps to verify their identities.

"The measures are the latest regulations that some experts say are
costing the industry hundreds of millions of dollars and increasingly
casting bankers in the uncomfortable role of beat cop in the fight
against terrorism.

"Many financial firms collect such information, but the new regulations
increase reporting requirements and require companies to step up their
procedures and recordkeeping.

"Customers who supply inaccurate birth dates, Social Security numbers or
other personal data could have their account application denied or their
funds frozen, a prospect that has added to criticism that regulations
related to the Patriot Act of 2001 go too far in prying into the
personal lives of consumers."
...
"Like Bay-Vanguard, most companies will require a driver's license or
other identification as part of the verification. Companies also must
check customer names against lists of suspected or known terrorists and
money launderers."
...
"Mroz said Bay-Vanguard has devoted dozens of staff hours to complying
with the Patriot Act. First, bank officials had to study the regulations
and formulate new policies. Then, the staff had to be trained.

"It doesn't stop there. Every time the Treasury Department puts out a
list of suspected terrorists or terrorist organizations, the bank's
security officer must manually search thousands of records to determine
whether any of the names match."

(http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/corporate/nw/nw003637.php3)


#99 of 352 by tod on Fri Oct 17 19:30:16 2003:

This response has been erased.



#100 of 352 by krj on Fri Oct 17 22:12:56 2003:

Debates in one of the many, many debate items, please!


#101 of 352 by tod on Fri Oct 17 22:24:20 2003:

This response has been erased.



#102 of 352 by tod on Sat Oct 18 00:04:45 2003:

This response has been erased.



#103 of 352 by mcnally on Sat Oct 18 00:49:26 2003:

  a little too much "Peter Gunn" rip-off going on there, imho.


#104 of 352 by asddsa on Sat Oct 18 03:54:03 2003:

re 102 I couldnht access that


#105 of 352 by gelinas on Sat Oct 18 05:58:54 2003:

(tod is right that banks do not have to confirm citizenship.  However,
banks _do_ have to confirm identity.  I've read the relevant sections
of the USA Patriot Act, and a lot of the implementing regulation.
I should finish reading it this weekend, because Authorised Signers are
not customers, but the bank may not want to accept that, and I have to
change the signers on some accounts PDQ.)


#106 of 352 by sno on Sat Oct 18 14:17:52 2003:

Just imagine if "John Smith" got on the list.

Or George Bush.


#107 of 352 by goose on Sat Oct 18 17:10:54 2003:

RE#102 -- In Mozilla after looking like windows media would be loading, it
jumped to a page that looked like a mailing list signup, and in IE it asked
me if I wanted to update my DRM in Windows media, which I don't.  So I
couldn't see/hear whatever it was.


#108 of 352 by mcnally on Sat Oct 18 19:19:24 2003:

  re #107:  It didn't work quite right for me in Mozilla, either..
  I got redirected to some page which told me that a license had been
  granted and I should push on the "play" button to hear the track.
  Unfortunately there was no "play" button (or much of anything else)
  on the page I was seeing at the time.  When I used the browser's
  back button to go back a few pages to the page with the Windows
  Media Player embedded in it, I found I could press "play" in the
  media player on that page and hear the song.  Odd and confusing..


#109 of 352 by happyboy on Sat Oct 18 19:46:59 2003:

re97: was the tub waxed?


#110 of 352 by asddsa on Sun Oct 19 04:13:13 2003:

Yeah, it didn't work for IE either.


#111 of 352 by jmsaul on Sun Oct 19 04:21:08 2003:

The changes around Liberty and State have made that area completely insane
during the day, and until around 6:30pm.  I could go into more detail, but
I'm sick of talking about it -- I simply don't go there unless it's later in
the evening.  It's chased me away from impulse shopping at Borders, too; I
guess it'll be Nicola's Books or Amazon from now on.


#112 of 352 by scott on Sun Oct 19 13:43:23 2003:

Re 111:  I think the timing and sensors for the State/Liberty light are pretty
screwed up.


#113 of 352 by slynne on Sun Oct 19 14:28:55 2003:

Huh. That is too bad about the traffic downtown. It probably would work 
if they didnt allow left turns but that would make it a pain in the 
neck in a different way. 


#114 of 352 by i on Sun Oct 19 21:18:03 2003:

Timing & sensors for many of Ann Arbor's traffic lights are screwed up.
Then there are the drivers who don't notice when the light turns green.
But it's a pretty good town to walk around if you've got the time.


#115 of 352 by slynne on Sun Oct 19 21:24:55 2003:

yeah, that is probably one reason I havent really noticed any problems 
with the traffic at State/Liberty. I usually drive in and park on the 
edges of downtown and then walk around. If I am going to Borders, for 
instance, I usually come in via Packard to Fifth to Washington and then 
park in the Tally Hall structure. 


#116 of 352 by jmsaul on Sun Oct 19 23:50:17 2003:

Time is exactly the problem.  I live here, and I work here, so when I'm
shopping in downtown Ann Arbor it isn't a special day-long expedition like
it is for people from Novi or something.  It's just trying to patronize
your hometown stores, without burning tons of time you don't have.

I'd take half an hour on my way to or from somewhere and run into Borders,
or into one of the restaurants, or whatever.  If there wasn't a convenient
space, I'd keep going and come back another time.

Now, you have to go to the edges of the area, hit a parking structure, and
walk in.  I don't mind the walk, but I do mind the extra time that crap
adds.  It's no longer something I can do on impulse on my way between
meetings or something.  It's an expedition.

I guess Amazon is my hometown bookstore now, and I can kiss those
restaurants goodbye in favor of ones in sane places like Kerrytown,
Briarwood, and Ypsi.

Nice job, City Council.

(And that crap about how since the lights will make people drive slower,
they're more likely to notice the businesses?  Complete bullshit.  The way
those light cycles are set up, they aren't looking at the buildings.
They're scanning for parking spaces -- they got rid of almost 20 -- and
then staring at the red light they're stopped at so they don't miss the
brief, three-car green.  Assuming another pedestrian doesn't jaywalk and
keep you from using it again, since the pedestrians also get very few walk
lights so they jaywalk all the time.)

Really, really, really dumb.  Dog-ass dumb.


#117 of 352 by scott on Mon Oct 20 00:36:34 2003:

I think the "three car green" is a result of timing and sensor problems,
though.  They've definitely got throughput problems which would be solved with
longer greens.


#118 of 352 by sno on Mon Oct 20 01:09:36 2003:

This Friday on State St at N.U. and William area was the worst I've ever
seen.  Much of the problem was the right turn from William to S.State
towards the Michigan Union.

I judged that it was because of homecoming.  However, a lot of confused
people still clog up that area during the day.  I can see it from my 
office window above where Decker Drugs was.



#119 of 352 by cmcgee on Mon Oct 20 02:18:06 2003:

City Council was not pushing for this.  The merchants in the State Street
Association working with the DDA were the ones who really wanted the change.


#120 of 352 by other on Mon Oct 20 03:13:46 2003:

And that is the same merchants association which pushed to make those 
streets one-way in the first place.


#121 of 352 by mcnally on Mon Oct 20 07:20:13 2003:

  I'm interested in reading this not just because I'm still a bit interested
  in what goes on in Ann Arbor but also because Grand Haven's downtown
  merchants are pushing for their two one-way streets (Franklin & Columbus)
  to be changed to two-way, a move I'm convinced will devastate traffic flow
  through downtown Grand Haven and cause horrible congestion on crowded
  summer beach weekends.  I'd like to see them avoid making the same mistake
  it sounds like Ann Arbor has made..


#122 of 352 by johnnie on Mon Oct 20 13:20:54 2003:

Kalamazoo is doing the same thing (thinking of converting all/most of 
the downtown one-ways into two-ways).  I think in K'zoo's case, though, 
it'd make driving downtown a bunch easier.


#123 of 352 by keesan on Mon Oct 20 18:10:56 2003:

Jim discovered why his battery light was on in the car on the way from our
recent trip out of town.  The fan belt (which has something to do with
charging the battery - alternator fan?) was gone, must have broken off.  He
replaced it just two years ago when it went bad.  He biked to Murray's and
got a belt which was the wrong size and is returning it now.  Good thing we
were going to leave early and run errands on the way to my 4:30 CT scan at
the hospital.  But they are likely to be running 2 hours late again like last
time anyway.  For some reason the lights were working fine driving home Friday
- last time the belt went bad they were weak.  The red brake light was also
on - why?


#124 of 352 by keesan on Mon Oct 20 18:31:36 2003:

The first fan belt (that was supposed to be correct for his car) was too long.
He asked for one just slightly shorter, but they looked up another size and
gave it to him.  It is too short.  He tried adjusting the car to take larger
or smaller belts but no luck.  He will ask them to call the car company this
time.  We have two hours left.  Cars sure waste a lot of time.  I would bike
if I had regrown enough muscle - much quicker and easier.


#125 of 352 by rcurl on Mon Oct 20 18:48:01 2003:

You may not get good advice at Murray's. I asked them what was the correct
replacement battery for a car and they chose and sold me one that did not
fit (and which was more expensive than the one that did fit).



#126 of 352 by keesan on Mon Oct 20 18:53:42 2003:

This is why Jim wants to check with the manufacturer (third time).  I don't
know why he cannot measure the length needed for this car.


#127 of 352 by rcurl on Mon Oct 20 19:13:28 2003:

There is some range of adjustment and, I am sure, some guidelines on how
to measure for the proper length. It may be, however, that the adjustment
had already been set to the (upper) limit of its range, so a measurement
would be incorrect.


#128 of 352 by tod on Mon Oct 20 19:59:16 2003:

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#129 of 352 by carson on Tue Oct 21 01:03:25 2003:

(today is my dad's birthday.)


#130 of 352 by asddsa on Tue Oct 21 01:34:13 2003:

haps birthday, pops carson.


#131 of 352 by keesan on Tue Oct 21 01:55:16 2003:

Jim has no AC in his car, just DC.  He figured out why they kept giving him
the wrong belts.  First belt - he asked for a 1989 model and his car is 1987.
Then he adjusted the car to take a larger belt, and when the gave him the
second belt it did not fit.  The next two belts he got intermediate sizes
which were both too large, and returned them for the second belt, which this
time he got working.  All his fault.  The red warning lights no longer come
on.  He is happy he made it back without the belt from 10 miles away.  I am
happy we made it to the hospital by 4:30 pm.


#132 of 352 by goose on Tue Oct 21 03:26:12 2003:

AC as in Air Conditioning, not Alternating Current.


#133 of 352 by gull on Tue Oct 21 13:37:42 2003:

Ann Arbor's downtown, like most downtowns, seems to be intended more for
tourists than for people who actually live in Ann Arbor.

Changing one-way streets to two-way seems like exactly the kind of move
that's intended to benefit tourists, but at the expense of locals.


#134 of 352 by tod on Tue Oct 21 15:29:51 2003:

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#135 of 352 by keesan on Tue Oct 21 15:43:13 2003:

Jim does not air condition anything.  He figured out what the strange clunk
was as the car turned the first corner.  This morning he went and found the
wrench he had left inside the engine comnpartment.  Also a pile of concrete
blocks, of which you can never have too many.  Our guest has just moved.


#136 of 352 by mcnally on Tue Oct 21 16:17:58 2003:

 re #133:  
 > Ann Arbor's downtown, like most downtowns, seems to be intended more for
 > tourists than for people who actually live in Ann Arbor.

 Based on thirteen years' worth of residence in Ann Arbor, I strongly
 disagree.


#137 of 352 by other on Tue Oct 21 16:27:46 2003:

Besides, this whole one-way/two-way thing is not in the "downtown" area, 
it is in the "campus" area.  Also, it is patently not about tourists 
versus locals, it is about merchants trying to improve sales.


#138 of 352 by tod on Tue Oct 21 16:45:51 2003:

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#139 of 352 by goose on Tue Oct 21 17:02:19 2003:

RE#135 -- The question was wether his car had air conditioning not if he used
it.


#140 of 352 by tod on Tue Oct 21 17:09:22 2003:

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#141 of 352 by happyboy on Tue Oct 21 17:21:55 2003:

i hope.  ;)


#142 of 352 by tpryan on Tue Oct 21 18:26:18 2003:

        Yeah, I hope Sindi's is up to chain yanking strengh.


#143 of 352 by keesan on Tue Oct 21 20:02:42 2003:

Sindi is still not strong enough to even replace the toilet paper on the
spring-loaded holder so is not yanking any chains.  Jim's car never had AC
or A/C.  He had an air conditioned Jeep once that he tried the A/C on once.
It wastes gasoline.  We left the windows open instead.


#144 of 352 by bhelliom on Tue Oct 21 20:21:47 2003:

If you yank the chain, then the terrorists have won...


#145 of 352 by tod on Tue Oct 21 20:36:16 2003:

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#146 of 352 by other on Tue Oct 21 21:00:44 2003:

If you yank the chain, the water will flow from the tank and splash the 
excrement around your ankles.


#147 of 352 by bhelliom on Tue Oct 21 21:06:48 2003:

Ewwwww...



#148 of 352 by cross on Tue Oct 21 22:22:07 2003:

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#149 of 352 by scott on Tue Oct 21 23:54:07 2003:

The terrorists win if we *aren't* allow to yank chains.

I think Benjamin Franklin had some sort of tract on the subject, if Google
is willing...


#150 of 352 by other on Wed Oct 22 04:05:53 2003:

For those appreciative of travel narrative, item:enigma:381


#151 of 352 by gull on Wed Oct 22 17:39:01 2003:

I've heard it claimed that at highway speeds, opening the windows
compromises the car's aerodynamics enough to cancel out any benefit from
having the A/C switched off.  No idea if it's true, though.

I can report that having a bicycle on the roof rack reduces fuel economy
by a surprising amount.  Bikes are draggy things at 70 mph, apparently.


#152 of 352 by tod on Wed Oct 22 17:52:07 2003:

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#153 of 352 by bhelliom on Wed Oct 22 20:28:29 2003:

Ooooo, he said "rearmounted".

Wow...I really need a nap...


#154 of 352 by senna on Wed Oct 22 20:44:18 2003:

I think cracking a window with the AC on is probably better than having the
AC off, because the air coming into the car would just use the window as an
exit.  An open window is catastrophic to aerodynamics at high speeds.  I'm
not at all surprised that bikes are bad, too, especially on top.  The ones
in back probably vary depending upon how much air is designed to "stick" to
the back of a vehicle, and that is often not much on the SUVs you see carrying
them.  



#155 of 352 by jmsaul on Wed Oct 22 22:29:13 2003:

Re #136:  I would have disagreed too, until the traffic pattern changes.


#156 of 352 by gelinas on Wed Oct 22 22:38:28 2003:

Maynard between Liberty and William is open again.

I've been deliberately choosing to drive S. State between Washington and
Liberty at every opportunity.  I do see the point about fewer parking spaces,
but I _don't_ see increased congestion; I find it much easier to get around
that area now.  Yesterday, I turned right off N. University and left
onto Liberty.  Yes, only three or four cars got through on the left arrow,
but I was first up on the next cycle.

Jaywalking has long been a problem in the campus area; the pedestrians do NOT
play well with others.  Never have, probably never will.


#157 of 352 by bhoward on Wed Oct 22 23:37:02 2003:

Personally, I've always thought it a feature that pedestrians had (maybe
"assumed" a better choice here) priority over cars in the campus area.


#158 of 352 by keesan on Thu Oct 23 00:01:25 2003:

We don't normally drive except for Christmas and Easter when it is not too
hot.  


#159 of 352 by aruba on Thu Oct 23 01:49:19 2003:

Yeah, my feeling is that pedestrians reign around campus, and drivers should
just deal with it.  Of course, that's just my feeling.


#160 of 352 by gelinas on Thu Oct 23 03:16:29 2003:

Not quite.  Sooner or later, the pedestrians have to give the cars a chance
to get through the intersection, too.  If the pedestrians ignore the cars,
as so many do, and just keep entering the crosswalks, the cars are left with
little choice but to enter the crosswalk too.

If cars are stopped at the stop signs, stop at the curb and give them a chance
to go, too.

It's just courteous.


#161 of 352 by bru on Thu Oct 23 11:13:45 2003:

I remember when I first moved to Ann Arbor, a student yelled at me to "Get
out of town" because I was driving my car on campus.  She had the opinion that
campus belonged to the students an people with cars who live in the city don't
belong here.


#162 of 352 by gull on Thu Oct 23 13:29:17 2003:

You probably shouldn't have been on the sidewalk. ;>


#163 of 352 by rcurl on Thu Oct 23 16:50:19 2003:

I've lived in AA for many years and commuted to work at UM's main campus
for most of that time, and no one *ever* 'yelled at me to "Get
 out of town"'. I wonder what bru was doing that would elicit any comment
(apart from driving on the sidewalk - or across the Diag).


#164 of 352 by tod on Thu Oct 23 16:59:38 2003:

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#165 of 352 by goose on Thu Oct 23 17:34:12 2003:

You too?  And here I thought I was special....


#166 of 352 by tod on Thu Oct 23 18:13:31 2003:

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#167 of 352 by eprom on Fri Oct 24 14:55:31 2003:

There was a Coronal Mass Ejection detected wenesday, that is expected to hit
earth at about 3pm EDT today...and expected to last 12-18 hrs.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/10/23/solar.forecast/index.html


#168 of 352 by other on Fri Oct 24 14:59:51 2003:

Folk, if you,re in a suitable area, this means the Aurora should be 
stunning!


#169 of 352 by micklpkl on Fri Oct 24 15:37:31 2003:

Yes, check it out:
NASA's Space Weather Web site is predicting that the northern lights could
be visible as far south as Oregon and Illinois. 
</clip>


#170 of 352 by tod on Fri Oct 24 16:39:23 2003:

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#171 of 352 by flem on Fri Oct 24 18:41:32 2003:

re #168:  What would constitute a suitable area?


#172 of 352 by other on Fri Oct 24 19:27:34 2003:

Any place from which the Aurora would be visible.


#173 of 352 by dah on Fri Oct 24 19:38:53 2003:

Asshole.


#174 of 352 by mcnally on Fri Oct 24 19:44:48 2003:

  Dang.  I wish we were expecting clear weather here, as I've never seen
  a good aurora display.  Unfortunately tonight's forecast is 25-40 mph
  winds and 90% chance of rain -- not great sky-watching weather.


#175 of 352 by tod on Fri Oct 24 20:06:35 2003:

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#176 of 352 by happyboy on Fri Oct 24 20:43:28 2003:

it's sposta be clear out here, right?


#177 of 352 by tod on Fri Oct 24 21:02:07 2003:

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#178 of 352 by krj on Fri Oct 24 22:03:24 2003:

The Detroit forecast calls for rain.  :(


#179 of 352 by tod on Fri Oct 24 22:24:12 2003:

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#180 of 352 by slynne on Sat Oct 25 02:02:40 2003:

my cell phone wasnt working for a bit earlier. It's too cloudy for sky 
watching :(


#181 of 352 by bhoward on Sat Oct 25 03:27:55 2003:

The last time I saw an aurora was in Ann Arbor, must have been around
1990 or 1991.  For some reason that year, they were appearing quite a
bit further south than normal.

I had an attic apartment with a nice view in the right direction at
the time.  Also had a phone with a long extension cord and a handy
trick that let us shimmy up onto the roof of the house.

A friend from the station was visiting that night (Des Preston) so
the two of us made our way on to the roof, called into the station 
and as I recall, spent next 20 minutes doing a live broadcast
describing the aurora right from the roof above my apartment.


#182 of 352 by asddsa on Sat Oct 25 05:19:09 2003:

It's completely overcast here.


#183 of 352 by other on Sat Oct 25 05:23:49 2003:

I'll have to ask Des about that the next time I see him.  :)


#184 of 352 by jmsaul on Sat Oct 25 16:28:58 2003:

Re #181:  Hey, Bruce!

Re #156-160:  Joe, when are you driving that stretch of road?

              I don't normally have a problem with pedestrians having the
              right of way even when jaywalking, but the way they've set
              those particular lights up, it's hell.  The lights are short,
              they're all no turn on red, and it's congested -- though the
              congestion's getting slightly better as more and more people
              learn that the State St. shopping area isn't worth it any more.
              It's a road rage incubator.


#185 of 352 by gelinas on Sat Oct 25 16:53:00 2003:

It varies, but usually around 16:00, I think.  I haven't been getting out
in the morning, so I've not tried it at noon, that I can recall.  Oh,
wait: I took the kids to Cottage Inn for lunch on Wednesday.  We were
seated around 13, plus or minus fifteen minutes.  I came down State and
parked across the street from the restaurant.


#186 of 352 by jmsaul on Sat Oct 25 17:39:34 2003:

Straight across on State isn't (relatively) bad in either direction.  What
hoses you is if there's s turn involved (State southbound on to William may
be okay).


#187 of 352 by gelinas on Sat Oct 25 23:01:33 2003:

I guess it's just timing.  The one time I can remember going from North U to
Liberty in the past week, I saw how short the left arrow was, only three or
four got through, but I was first in line on the next cycle.  I _probably_
could have pushed the yellow, but I try to avoid that.


#188 of 352 by llyren on Sat Oct 25 23:50:31 2003:

* ANNOUNCEMENT *

On November 1st, 2nd, 7th, 8th, and 9th, Pioneer High School Theatre 
Guild presents the Washtenaw County premier of the acclaimed musical 
Les Miserables.  It promises to be an absolutely incredible show (I'm 
in it, and it's amazing) and I encourage everyone to come see it and 
spread the word!  Friday and Saturday shows are at 7:30 PM and Sunday 
shows are at 2:00 PM in Schreiber Auditorium at Pioneer High School.  
Tickets are on sale at the Food & Drug Mart at Stadium and Packard; 
adult tickets are $10 and student / senior tickets are $6.  Get yours 
before all five shows are sold out!  See you there!


#189 of 352 by bhoward on Sun Oct 26 01:09:14 2003:

Re#184: Howdy, howdy Joe!

Re# 183: You have an email address for Des?  Been trying to catch up 
         with him for a while.  Wasn't able to find him last time I
         passed through Ann Arbor.

So anyone have any general announcements when the solar storm is
suppose to (or supposed to have) hit abd blow out all our 
electronics? 


#190 of 352 by aruba on Sun Oct 26 02:45:52 2003:

Re #188: Thanks for the invitation!  I went to a Pioneer show a few years
ago, and it was a lot of fun.  Is there a poster online that I could tape to
the fridge, so I won't forget?


#191 of 352 by other on Sun Oct 26 03:11:50 2003:

I don't have an email for him, I just see him all over town.


#192 of 352 by jep on Sun Oct 26 04:00:06 2003:

Tonight is the end of Daylight Savings time.  That means two things:

1) Set your clocks BACK one hour.  (Yay!  Sleep in for an hour)

2) Change your smoke alarm batteries.


#193 of 352 by tod on Sun Oct 26 12:26:37 2003:

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#194 of 352 by keesan on Sun Oct 26 17:30:54 2003:

Smoke alarms squeal when they have low batteries.


#195 of 352 by goose on Sun Oct 26 20:04:18 2003:

Not all smoke alarms do.


#196 of 352 by gull on Sun Oct 26 20:41:00 2003:

Besides, they always start squealing at 3 am.


#197 of 352 by remmers on Sun Oct 26 22:30:16 2003:

I wish to announce that I hope that everyone affected changed their
clocks from daylight to standard time.  (Computers nowadays tend to
be pretty good at doing this on their own.)


#198 of 352 by sno on Sun Oct 26 23:45:55 2003:

I always find one clock that I forgot to change several days after I
fix everything else.  Each year it is different.  This year, I'm 
pretty sure it will be the clock in my car, primarily because I'm 
not going to worry about it until some idle moment at a stop light.
Also, I wait until I need to change the VCR clocks before I mess 
with them.



#199 of 352 by keesan on Mon Oct 27 01:04:45 2003:

Jim just changed my clock so I have to stay up an hour later (but I won't,
and this way I can get an extra hour of sleep since the garbage trucks will
come an hour later tomorrow morning).  My computer does not need to be changed
because we never changed it last spring.


#200 of 352 by bhoward on Mon Oct 27 01:52:42 2003:

We don't have DST in Japan so I'm afraid it would just
really confuse matters to reset my clock!


#201 of 352 by tpryan on Mon Oct 27 02:42:54 2003:

        Timer on living room lamp needs to go back an hour.  But if I
do it now, it will be dark.


#202 of 352 by tpryan on Mon Oct 27 02:57:32 2003:

        Is the World Series over yet?


#203 of 352 by gelinas on Mon Oct 27 03:09:12 2003:

Yes.  It ended last night, when the Marlins won 2-0.  I think the game was
played in the Yankees' home stadium, too. :)


#204 of 352 by remmers on Mon Oct 27 10:53:20 2003:

Re #200:  Well, you should at least clean your clocks now and then,
Bruce.


#205 of 352 by gull on Mon Oct 27 14:26:08 2003:

Re #200: You should set them all back an hour, then forward again, just to
mess with their little clock minds.


#206 of 352 by krj on Mon Oct 27 18:26:10 2003:

Here's a link announcing a free concert of Bulgarian Gypsy music:
Tuesday, 8 pm, U.Michigan Union Ballroom.  
 
http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/cwps/Bulgarian.htm

I'm gonna try to get to this show.


#207 of 352 by tod on Mon Oct 27 18:41:12 2003:

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#208 of 352 by dah on Mon Oct 27 19:05:43 2003:

I'm not sure if I'm skipping school or not 'cause of the time change.  I just
can't figure it out.


#209 of 352 by bhoward on Tue Oct 28 01:11:54 2003:

Re#204-205:
  Well, I somehow managed to reset my internal clock instead.  Woke up
  an hour late and barely made it into work before market open :-(


#210 of 352 by jaklumen on Tue Oct 28 03:10:04 2003:

resp:204 as long as it's *his* clock, not someone else's clock ;)


#211 of 352 by jep on Wed Oct 29 05:07:36 2003:

I'd like to wish a happy birthday to richard.

Richard has been much maligned, from time to time.  However, he's got 
a couple of definite niches on Grex.  I think he sees more movies than 
anyone here except maybe remmers and mary.  He also seems pretty 
knowledgeable about liberal New York and East Coast politics, at least 
from my perspective.

I think it is a great thing about Grex that someone be so far outside 
of the mainstream, but still firmly establish himself as an essential 
part of the scene.  I would really miss Richard if he were to quit 
logging in here.


#212 of 352 by charcat on Wed Oct 29 08:23:57 2003:

the northern lights are out right now , just west of ann arbor 


#213 of 352 by bhoward on Wed Oct 29 12:42:34 2003:

not certain the weather is going to cooperate and tokyo is a bit
more south (about the lattitude of washington, dc or slightly 
further south) but i'm crossing fingers none-the-less that we
get to see something.

then again if the computer gets fried, i won't be able to report
into agora :-)


#214 of 352 by remmers on Wed Oct 29 13:15:47 2003:

(Re #211:  I think that Richard definitely sees more movies than
I do.)


#215 of 352 by gelinas on Wed Oct 29 13:58:48 2003:

(Three degrees further south, roughly 180 miles.)


#216 of 352 by slynne on Wed Oct 29 14:04:20 2003:

I went out last night to see if I could see any northern lights but all 
I saw were some clouds :(

Oh, Happy Birthday Richard!


#217 of 352 by mynxcat on Wed Oct 29 15:06:13 2003:

Richard definitely gets to the newest movies before anyone else on 
Grex. And his in-depth reviews are much appreciated, even though I do 
skip most of them unless I'm interested in a couple of movies. In 
fact, I've heard of new movies that have been released first from 
Richard.

I do not always agree with Richard and his views, as posted in agora, 
but jep is right. He definitely has a niche. And he's lucky to be 
living in one of the best cities (IMO) in the world. And he makes good 
use of his fortune.

Happy Birthday Richard. NYC should give you many means to celebrate.


#218 of 352 by eprom on Wed Oct 29 16:19:37 2003:

according to
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/10/29/solar.flares.ap/index.html

they're saying that auroras may be seen as far away as Flordia and Texas
begining later wendesday (tonight)... I'm hoping for clears skies this
time. :)


#219 of 352 by mcnally on Wed Oct 29 17:11:45 2003:

  It was a rare clear night in Ketchikan last night so I went out to
  see if I could see aurora.  All I saw were some light patches in the
  sky but co-workers this morning were talking about more impressive
  displays in the early morning hours.  I'll try again tonight if it
  remains clear.


#220 of 352 by tod on Wed Oct 29 17:37:11 2003:

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#221 of 352 by llyren on Thu Oct 30 05:36:18 2003:

In response to #190:

Nope, sorry, there's no media available online.  Thanks for your 
enthusiasm though!  Spread the word, the show's getting better with 
every rehearsal.


#222 of 352 by bhoward on Thu Oct 30 12:11:32 2003:

It's looking cloudy here tonight so probably no chance
to catch whatever lingering window may still remain for
catching a southernly aurora.

May have to schedule a trip to check out your neck of
the woods sometime, Mike.


#223 of 352 by slynne on Thu Oct 30 15:00:57 2003:

Ok. Borders is having it's "employee appreciation" weekend in a couple 
of weeks which means that anyone who knows an employee gets a discount. 
Dont worry, even at this discount, they are still making a profit ;)

http://www.bordersstores.com/features/feature.jsp?file=friendsandfamily


#224 of 352 by remmers on Thu Oct 30 15:06:34 2003:

IWLTA that today is the 65th anniversary of Orson Welles' "War of the
Worlds" radio broadcast.


#225 of 352 by remmers on Wed Nov 5 20:02:23 2003:

I'm pleased to announce that 'kaykay' and 'emblem' recently got married.
Yet another Grex Marriage - they first met online here, in party.

(Posting this here with kaykay's permission.)


#226 of 352 by aruba on Wed Nov 5 21:19:04 2003:

Cool!


#227 of 352 by tsty on Thu Nov 6 10:45:48 2003:

zoundz! VKewl! 
  
congratulations!
/


#228 of 352 by naftee on Thu Nov 6 22:44:20 2003:

re 225 yet another?!  Who else has been married online?


#229 of 352 by remmers on Thu Nov 6 23:15:49 2003:

Nobody's been married online, but a few couples who *met* online
subsequently married.

The Grex marriages of which I'm aware:

        munkey & kornnut
        winipooh & cb311
        eloria & grangerz
        kaykay & emblem

Am I missing anyone?


#230 of 352 by mynxcat on Thu Nov 6 23:37:16 2003:

remmers and mary - but that was more of an mnet marriage


#231 of 352 by mcnally on Fri Nov 7 01:07:19 2003:

  possibly krj & arabella?


#232 of 352 by krj on Fri Nov 7 02:49:33 2003:

No, Leslie and I were together about a year before she first logged into
M-net, and about four years before Grex was started.


#233 of 352 by cmcgee on Fri Nov 7 03:22:37 2003:

I need some help fast.  Need to know about anime.  Anyone have inuyasha,
gundam, kenshen series?


#234 of 352 by scott on Fri Nov 7 03:27:04 2003:

Drop by Wizzywig on Liberty (just a couple doors west of the Michigan Theater)
and rent whatever you need.


#235 of 352 by krj on Fri Nov 7 03:47:16 2003:

Also send email to Twila (anderyn) who knows a fair bit about anime.


#236 of 352 by aruba on Fri Nov 7 03:55:21 2003:

My resident Anime expert says that all those series are commercially
available, so you should be able to find them at Wizzywig.  Gundam is
actually a whole bunch of series, and there is some controversy about what
the "true" Gundam is.


#237 of 352 by glenda on Fri Nov 7 04:27:49 2003:

My resident expert says Underworld is a good place to buy.  And Vault of
Midnight rents it.  Vault of Midnight is under Dynersty on Liberty. 
Underworld is on S. University across the street from Middle Earth in the
Mall.


#238 of 352 by carson on Fri Nov 7 19:58:47 2003:

re #229:  (jared and smiles, but only on a technicality.)


#239 of 352 by remmers on Fri Nov 7 21:00:56 2003:

Ah.  Knew they were both on Grex, but did they actually meet here?


#240 of 352 by tod on Fri Nov 7 21:05:57 2003:

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#241 of 352 by carson on Sat Nov 8 14:24:42 2003:

(they met on I-94.)  :P


#242 of 352 by tod on Sat Nov 8 15:58:46 2003:

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#243 of 352 by naftee on Sun Nov 9 05:13:35 2003:

But were they married online?


#244 of 352 by carson on Sun Nov 9 10:55:45 2003:

re #242: (nope.  jared and smiles met at Jared's when her sister brought
         her over for a euchre game that never happened, then again,  
         later that night, on I-94.  I don't believe smiles ever had an 
         M-Net account [Arbornet's version, at least], although I could
         be wrong about that.)


#245 of 352 by remmers on Sun Nov 9 10:58:45 2003:

No.  I call it a "Grex marriage" when the couple in question
first encountered each other and began interacting socially on
Grex.

I don't know of any real online marriage ceremonies that took
place, although I remember when fake ones were in vogue.  But
that's a topic for the Grex/M-Net nostalgia item.  (Is there
such an item?)


#246 of 352 by remmers on Sun Nov 9 11:00:33 2003:

(Carson's #244 slipped in.  I was responding to naftee's #243.
(6 a.m. is pretty early for responses slipping in, I might add.))


#247 of 352 by russ on Sun Nov 9 12:40:35 2003:

RISKS digest volume 23 number 1 is in /a/r/u/russ/risks/risks-23.01.
But you probably knew that already.


#248 of 352 by naftee on Mon Nov 10 01:12:07 2003:

Early early


#249 of 352 by krj on Tue Nov 11 19:26:33 2003:

Leslie and I are back from a six-day trip to Hoboken, New York and 
Annapolis.


#250 of 352 by katie on Tue Nov 11 21:12:19 2003:

Please come over to the Ark on Friday, nOv 28 (day after Thanksgiving)
for the Matt Watroba concert. I will be leading and/or dueting on 7 or
8 songs.


#251 of 352 by other on Wed Nov 12 00:44:45 2003:

In a public speech today at the University of Michigan Law School, 
former Secretary of the Treasury Robert Rubin praised the ruling 
Bush administration for the efficiency with which it has utterly 
abandoned sound medium- and long-term economic policy in favor of 
short term political popularity.


#252 of 352 by bhoward on Wed Nov 12 08:35:07 2003:

I'd like to announce, we just had another small earthquake in Tokyo.

The building is still rocking (gently).  Yeeehaa...



#253 of 352 by tsty on Wed Nov 12 11:06:53 2003:

rubin is typpically short-sighted ...


#254 of 352 by tod on Wed Nov 12 17:34:48 2003:

This response has been erased.



#255 of 352 by other on Wed Nov 12 18:33:47 2003:

253:  He doesn't sound that way to me, but you're entitled to your 
opinion.  ;)


#256 of 352 by bhoward on Thu Nov 13 00:20:26 2003:

There is a live streaming broadcast of the handover of Kaho`olawe
island accessable through http://kahoolawe.hawaii.gov/ right now.


#257 of 352 by tod on Thu Nov 13 00:24:49 2003:

This response has been erased.



#258 of 352 by jared on Thu Nov 13 13:38:33 2003:

one of my coworkers sent me this.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/69/33959.html


#259 of 352 by tod on Thu Nov 13 18:28:19 2003:

This response has been erased.



#260 of 352 by gull on Thu Nov 13 18:46:33 2003:

If they even had WEP turned on, they were ahead of most places.


#261 of 352 by tod on Thu Nov 13 19:34:58 2003:

This response has been erased.



#262 of 352 by mcnally on Thu Nov 13 19:50:10 2003:

  Or the CIO, for that matter..


#263 of 352 by tod on Thu Nov 13 20:56:58 2003:

This response has been erased.



#264 of 352 by russ on Fri Nov 14 01:39:27 2003:

RISKS digest volume 23 number 2 is in the usual spot under the usual name.


#265 of 352 by gull on Fri Nov 14 13:54:35 2003:

And the usual stuff, including some more electronic voting problems.


#266 of 352 by keesan on Sun Nov 16 14:47:59 2003:

A Russian translator living in Israel somehow found me through a website which
when I tried to access it ended me up at the site of a Swiss BBS with email
called PAMHO.  www.pamho.com was founded in 1986 as a local bbs on a PDP which
progressed to a 386 and then a 486 with 16MB RAM and 5 modem lines, crashed
in 1994, and in 1996 started telnet login which quickly attracted lots of
vandals and prompted them to require a membership fee.  For $20/year (30
franks Swiss) you get POP mail, for about $8 basic membership without POP
mail and there are other differences in privileges.
The bbs is run by a group of people with Indian-sounding names and was at
least originally religious-based.  Several people had the mission of getting
the computer system to keep running.  The history makes interesting reading
and this would be a place to steer people who want POP mail.  Economy class
members can only access 14 conferences, first class is unlimited.  They now
have web access to mail and conferences.


#267 of 352 by keesan on Sun Nov 16 18:33:31 2003:

I did some more reading and PAMHO has now moved to Florida, no longer appears
to have telnet access (but they may still be dial-in) and no longer charges
anything for their basic webmail account.  It is still $20 if you want POP
or IMAP access and web space and a mailbox larger than 8M.  Unfortunately when
I tried to compose a test mail this proved impossible to do with lynx since
they require javascript.  I will try to access their conferences on the web.


#268 of 352 by clees on Tue Nov 18 09:08:38 2003:

It's two years ago, today, I quit smoking.

Haven't touched a single one since then.
No lapses whatsoever.

Wheeeeeeeeze! (not anymore)


#269 of 352 by mary on Tue Nov 18 11:46:48 2003:

Your body and everyone who loves you, thanks you.

Nice going.


#270 of 352 by keesan on Tue Nov 18 13:56:38 2003:

Very glad to hear clees's good news.  It took my father 11 years of trying
before he quit after getting an ulcer.


#271 of 352 by russ on Tue Nov 18 14:00:32 2003:

The "phones" list needs to be updated.


#272 of 352 by remmers on Thu Nov 20 02:47:46 2003:

I'll be performing again in the annual Ragtime Bash at the
Unitarian Church in Ann Arbor.  Sunday, December 14, 7:30pm.
Other performers will include Bob Seely, Kent Eschelman,
and Mike Montgomery.  I'll post admission prices and other
details when I learn them.


#273 of 352 by bhoward on Thu Nov 20 03:12:33 2003:

Any chance of a web broadcast or mp3 recording?


#274 of 352 by scott on Thu Nov 20 13:44:02 2003:

Hey, I go there... I should see if I can record the bash.


#275 of 352 by remmers on Thu Nov 20 14:06:47 2003:

That would be cool.  As far as I know, previous bashes have not
been recorded.

Speaking of web broadcasts, I was interviewed by David Reffkin at
last June's Scott Joplin Festival in Sedalia, Missouri.  Reffkin
emcees a weekly ragtime radio show in San Francisco which is also
broadcast on the web.  He comes to the festival every year and
records interviews with both "official" performers and "unofficial"
ones (like me) for later airing on his show.  He said my interview
would be broadcast this fall at the earliest and he'd let me know
when it's scheduled.  So if and when he schedules it, I'll
announce it here.

In addition to doing the radio show, Reffkin is a violinist and
record producer.  He was recording engineer for "The Red Back Book",
an album of Joplin work arranged for instrumental ensemble that was
released in the 1970s (and may now be available on CD).


#276 of 352 by gregb on Thu Nov 20 17:05:45 2003:

Re. 247:  Russ, what is RISKS all about, and how do U access them?


#277 of 352 by other on Thu Nov 20 18:03:44 2003:

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/

Here's one way.  Read it and you'll understand.


#278 of 352 by rcurl on Thu Nov 20 20:49:03 2003:

IWLTA that I am offering an auction in support of Grex of "legacy" 
hardware in item 1144 of the classified cf. So far there are dot-matrix
printer w paper and an early IBM RGB monitor.



#279 of 352 by naftee on Fri Nov 21 03:24:37 2003:

re 272 What are you guys playing?


#280 of 352 by russ on Fri Nov 21 13:23:10 2003:

Re #276:  Look at /a/r/u/russ/risks/*.  I suggest starting
with /a/r/u/russ/risks/risks-23.* first, before diving into
all the back issues.  It's an eye-opener.


#281 of 352 by goose on Fri Nov 21 18:41:21 2003:

RE#258  -- According to the AA News today, there is a third party involved,
Brian Salcedo....he is the guy convicted of hacking M-Net.


#282 of 352 by naftee on Sat Nov 22 20:27:35 2003:

He hacked m-net years ago, chicken.  Get your facts straight.



#283 of 352 by goose on Sun Nov 23 14:30:41 2003:

My facts stand, dipshit.


#284 of 352 by naftee on Mon Nov 24 01:20:46 2003:

Your english doesn't, asswipe.


#285 of 352 by taylor88 on Mon Nov 24 22:17:09 2003:

PIMP pimp         BINREV.COM and OLDSKOOLPHREAK.COM 
          the leading source on all things Hack/Phreak related!


#286 of 352 by jep on Tue Nov 25 04:53:18 2003:

Eight years ago, on Friday, November 24, 2003, was the date of my 
wedding.  I was divorced earlier this year.

I didn't realize today was November 24 until a few minutes ago.  
That's remarkable; for the last two years, the anniversary has been 
difficult for me to handle; something I've dreaded for several days 
before it arrived.


#287 of 352 by tsty on Tue Nov 25 05:24:58 2003:

same day as jack ruby shot whats-his-face on LIVE teleivision?


#288 of 352 by krokus on Tue Nov 25 15:38:57 2003:

This is something everyone in the United States should read:
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,61341,00.html

It's getting scary as to what our government is trying to do.


#289 of 352 by tod on Tue Nov 25 16:55:25 2003:

This response has been erased.



#290 of 352 by gregb on Tue Nov 25 17:25:28 2003:

Re. #288: 1984 could turn into 2084.


#291 of 352 by tsty on Tue Nov 25 18:14:23 2003:

re 288 .. taht really IS scary ... re 290 ... maybe as soon as 2004.


#292 of 352 by albaugh on Tue Nov 25 18:42:35 2003:

Where is Chicken Little when you need him...


#293 of 352 by gull on Tue Nov 25 22:08:50 2003:

He was declared a terrorist and is being held incommunicado.


#294 of 352 by other on Tue Nov 25 22:16:51 2003:

References to Chicken Little in this context *may* be taken as 
indicative of ostrich-like behavior on the part of referrer (even if 
the intent is the opposite).


#295 of 352 by jaklumen on Tue Nov 25 22:37:15 2003:

resp:288 I heard about this on PBS.  It is pretty freaky.


#296 of 352 by albaugh on Wed Nov 26 19:26:59 2003:

You'all better go out and roast all them Democrats that voted for this
abomination!


#297 of 352 by sno on Fri Nov 28 02:54:25 2003:

Fear seems to change people's thinking dramatically.  We've lost a great
deal of personal rights and protections because of this onslaught of
Big Brother behavior.  Shame on our legislators.


#298 of 352 by twenex on Fri Nov 28 03:49:34 2003:

Hear, hear.


#299 of 352 by naftee on Fri Nov 28 05:37:36 2003:

Har, har.


#300 of 352 by mspiggy on Sat Nov 29 14:54:44 2003:

No NO No snow is evil.


#301 of 352 by krokus on Sun Nov 30 03:26:53 2003:

snow might be, but sno isn't.  :)


#302 of 352 by gelinas on Sun Nov 30 03:56:07 2003:

I agree, No Snow is evil.  Let it Snow!


#303 of 352 by crate on Sun Nov 30 03:59:30 2003:

hello world


#304 of 352 by gregb on Mon Dec 1 15:08:59 2003:

What program was that written in?  ;-)


#305 of 352 by russ on Tue Dec 2 04:24:15 2003:

RISKS digest volume 23 issue 4 is in /a/u/r/russ/risks/risks-23.04.

Interesting discussion of California's awakening to the RISKS of
e-voting, some book reviews, and other things.


#306 of 352 by eprom on Tue Dec 2 15:01:58 2003:

A Charlie Brown Christmas is on tonight at 8EST on ABC (not CBS suprisingly)


#307 of 352 by gregb on Tue Dec 2 15:08:24 2003:

Good grief, not again!


#308 of 352 by tpryan on Tue Dec 2 17:51:59 2003:

        Somehow, I'm just not feeling the Christmas Spirit.


#309 of 352 by gregb on Tue Dec 2 19:13:35 2003:

IKWYM. I miss getting to gether with all my reletives down in 
Cincinnatti.  Unfortunately, things change:  People move, get older, 
making it difficult to get around, etc.  Nowadays, Xmas is celebrated at 
my Sister's Mother-inlaw's house, which is alright, but just doesn't 
feel the same.  I feel particully bad for my Ma as she loved the 
hokidays seeing her sibs in Cinci


#310 of 352 by mcnally on Sat Dec 6 09:05:15 2003:

Very cool.

  http://www.mrpicassohead.com/create.html

Some of the works in the gallery are pretty cool examples of what you
can do with it if you're a lot more creative than I am..  e.g.:

  http://www.mrpicassohead.com/canvas.html?id=9396c3b


#311 of 352 by bbaggins on Tue Dec 9 23:16:12 2003:

I am new here too,I figured out how to email ,what else does this site offer?.


#312 of 352 by gelinas on Tue Dec 9 23:17:45 2003:

The convrences, which you've just discovered, and party, a real-time chat.


#313 of 352 by remmers on Wed Dec 10 13:33:24 2003:

It also offers software development languages and tools - C, C++,
Perl.


#314 of 352 by eprom on Sun Dec 21 01:05:15 2003:

yeah, this is a little old, but I just read about it today:

After more than 15 years, the mastermind behind the gruesome and
infamous murder of renowned gorilla researcher and protector, Dr. Dian
Fossey whose life was portrayed in the 1988 movie  Gorillas in the
Mist,  may finally be in custody in Belgium. Protais Zigiranyirazo, the
former Governor of the Ruhengeri province in Rwanda, brother-in-law of
the assassinated Rwandan president, and one of the country s most wanted
criminals for his creation of  death squads,  which killed 800,000 in
1994, was captured by Belgian police while trying to flee Kenya on June
9, 2001.

http://www.awionline.org/pubs/Quarterly/Fall2001/fossey.htm


#315 of 352 by mcnally on Sun Dec 21 02:27:38 2003:

  Fossey's death was a terrible crime, but does it strike anyone else
  as just a bit out of proportion to remember this guy as the guy who
  ordered Fossey's death and not as the organizer of death squads that
  killed 800,000 Rwandans?


#316 of 352 by gelinas on Sun Dec 21 02:53:02 2003:

Sadly, more people are likely to remember the one than the
eight-hundred-thousand.  After all, it's just another eight-hundred-thousand
of millions.  Joy Adamson and Dian Fossey are _names_, the others are
just _numbers_. :(


#317 of 352 by i on Sun Dec 21 04:21:30 2003:

Diane Fossey was white and noteworthy.  Roughly speaking, no whites have
any noteworthy involvement in Africa's genocides.  Worse, the victims
have virtually zilch in the way of influential white friends.  What does
the American media do with the following stories:

-Five innocents are killed in Israel/Palentine violence today, graphic
   video footage in hand

-Based on survivors' reports, the UN now estimates that 6,000 more 
   innocents were killed in inter-tribal violence in Africa

-Half the annual anti-AIDS funding in an African country has been
   stolen by the dictators' cronies; World Health Ass'n officials
   estimate that 70,000 more people will die of AIDS as a result

...my experience is that the first story gets top or near-top billing;
the other two aren't even considered for inclusion, unless a thick
newspaper has some spare room back on page 47J.  If there's no angle 
that a culturally & racially self-centered WASP can identify with, then
the victims weren't human and no crime was committed.  


#318 of 352 by mcnally on Sun Dec 21 06:41:31 2003:

  re #317:  I don't think it's quite as bad as that, though I can certainly
  see plenty of evidence to support your position.  

  I think gelinas has a point in #316, too.  It's much easier to visualize
  the death of an individual person whose name you know than imagine a
  nameless statistic, let alone 800,000 nameless statistics. 

  It's certainly not Fossey's fault -- she deserves justice as much as
  any one of the Rwandan genocide victims does -- but it just struck me
  as a particularly grim example of the limitations of public empathy..


#319 of 352 by mdw on Sun Dec 21 08:48:26 2003:

To me, the horrible thing about Fossey's death is that means the Gorilla
lost a champion, which the species badly needs.  Future generations may
be less willing to forgive the extinction of the gorilla, and may not be
at all sympathetic concerning temporary reductions in Africa's
overpopulation problem.  Given the current US "official" position
regarding population control (ie, birth control in 3rd world nations)
and the general % of world resources consumed in the US, I doubt the
future will judge us much better.


#320 of 352 by remmers on Sun Dec 21 13:34:06 2003:

To put the issue of the emphasis on one particular person into a wee
bit of perspective:  The story referenced in #314 appeared in a publication
called "The Animal Welfare Institute Quarterly".


#321 of 352 by mcnally on Sun Dec 21 22:16:34 2003:

    > Future generations may be less willing to forgive the extinction of
    > the gorilla, and may not be at all sympathetic concerning temporary
    > reductions in Africa's overpopulation problem.  Given the current US
    > "official" position regarding population control (ie, birth control
    > in 3rd world nations) and the general % of world resources consumed
    > in the US, I doubt the future will judge us much better.

  re #319:  boy, "temporary reductions in Africa's overpopulation problem"
  sure sounds a lot kinder than "the genocidal machete dismemberment of
  800,000 men, women, and children," doesn't it?  I know enough about 
  Marcus to have formed a pretty strong opinion that he isn't a cold-blooded
  type, so how do we get to a point where an intelligent person like
  Marcus makes an unconscious equivalence like the one above?
  I don't know what the answer or answers here might be, but I'm pretty
  consistently appalled by just how messed up our thinking about the
  situation has gotten.

  You're right that the gorilla needs a champion, but I really hope that
  if that champion appears, it doesn't turn out to be someone who sees
  nearly a million people as removable inconveniences.


#322 of 352 by mary on Mon Dec 22 01:20:40 2003:

This response has been erased.



#323 of 352 by mcnally on Mon Dec 22 02:46:18 2003:

  Probably well past time to move this out of the general announcements
  item.  I announce that I apologize for the inadvertent item hijacking.


#324 of 352 by carson on Mon Dec 22 14:20:13 2003:

(Russ [power] is in town through the first week of January.  we'll likely
get together tonight for some deep dish pizza from Anthony's.)


#325 of 352 by tpryan on Mon Dec 22 14:52:07 2003:

        Happy winter you all!


#326 of 352 by remmers on Mon Dec 22 14:57:06 2003:

(Oxymoron alert!)


#327 of 352 by gull on Mon Dec 22 16:22:49 2003:

Re resp:317: There's a less racist interpretation -- the U.S. has an 
active national interest in the Israeli situation, but has basically no 
ties to anywhere in Africa.


#328 of 352 by tod on Mon Dec 22 17:41:28 2003:

This response has been erased.



#329 of 352 by twenex on Mon Dec 22 17:50:12 2003:

Where in Africa?


#330 of 352 by tod on Mon Dec 22 18:07:38 2003:

This response has been erased.



#331 of 352 by twenex on Mon Dec 22 18:20:28 2003:

Ah. heh. Sierra Leone.


#332 of 352 by albaugh on Mon Dec 22 19:19:01 2003:

When I entered agora, I expected to see a roll into winter...

Well, a couple of Santa related comix to make you smile:

http://garfield.ucomics.com/index.html?uc_comic=ga&uc_full_date=20031221

http://www.ucomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1992/12/20/


#333 of 352 by aruba on Mon Dec 22 21:37:10 2003:

I like that Calvin and Hobbes one. :)


#334 of 352 by slynne on Mon Dec 22 21:51:17 2003:

Me too. Those are the best. :)


#335 of 352 by jep on Tue Dec 23 03:09:09 2003:

My son and I spent Friday night on the museum submarine, USS 
Silversides, in Muskegon, MI, along with Cub Scout Pack 673 of 
Tecumseh.  I would have to rate this as one of the coolest overnight 
trips I've ever heard of for Cub Scouts (and their parents).

You can read about the Silversides at http://www.silversides.org if 
you're interested.  


#336 of 352 by gelinas on Tue Dec 23 03:16:20 2003:

I think you can also read about it at

        http://courtofappeals.mijud.net/Digest/newHTML/16408221.htm


#337 of 352 by jep on Tue Dec 23 04:36:40 2003:

Yours doesn't say much about the submarine.


#338 of 352 by gelinas on Tue Dec 23 04:39:13 2003:

True, but the submarine _was_ the causus belli. :)


#339 of 352 by jor on Tue Dec 23 04:52:56 2003:

        but did  you use the head


#340 of 352 by jep on Tue Dec 23 15:09:17 2003:

No, sir; it was made clear to us that the heads were not operational.  
A submarine toilet does not work like a standard device anyway; there 
are 10 steps for using it, and by doing it wrong, it is possible to get 
disastrous results.


#341 of 352 by twenex on Tue Dec 23 15:23:44 2003:

I'd like to announce that it's time for agora to roll over already.


#342 of 352 by micklpkl on Tue Dec 23 15:31:06 2003:

Don't be *hasty,* Master twenex...


#343 of 352 by twenex on Tue Dec 23 15:39:14 2003:

/grin


#344 of 352 by jep on Tue Dec 23 15:51:23 2003:

I apologize for the delay in making the following announcement.

The economy is picking up, Saddam Hussein was caught, and the world is 
proceeding swimmingly.  The staff, Board, and katie met at my apartment 
in Tecumseh a few days ago for a high level summit.  It was decided, in 
order to not upset the balance, agora will not be rolled this season.  
We're going to use this agora for the Winter 2003-04 agora as well.

Thanks for your understanding.



#345 of 352 by keesan on Tue Dec 23 16:20:46 2003:

Did John III get a vote at this special board meeting?


#346 of 352 by jep on Tue Dec 23 18:00:40 2003:

No, as the chair he abstained frmo voting.


#347 of 352 by remmers on Tue Dec 23 18:05:25 2003:

My confidence that this meeting took place is equal to my confidence
that Iraq's WMD will soon be found.


#348 of 352 by jep on Tue Dec 23 19:37:31 2003:

People are asking where the winter Agora is, and I am trying to help 
them.

I might not be helping them in the way that they need.  I might be a 
little casual with the facts used for my explanation.  There might be a 
hole or two in what I am telling the good people of Grex.

I'm only human.  (Well, maybe a little better than most.  I 
unquestionably tower above some).  I am doing my best.  It has to be 
considered magnificent at the worst, despite falling slightly short of 
ideal in the peripheral characteristics to which I referred.

And of course, it doesn't detract from what I have said, that no one 
else has volunteered *any* information.  I have written the "best in 
it's class" account.

Mine is not the official statement.  At least not yet.  We can withhold 
judgement on that point, secure in the knowledge that the Powers That 
Be sometimes change their stories to match facts that come to light for 
the rest of the population.  Additionally, we can ponder the wisdom of 
some famous and applicable words, spoken by one who is a true student 
and philosopher: "The facts are overrated".

I shall stand by what I have said until proven wrong.  The Grex staff 
and Board, and katie, and myself, are trying to save the economy and 
the world by not having a new winter Agora.  


#349 of 352 by twenex on Tue Dec 23 19:49:07 2003:

This is Grex. The Powers That Grex are supposed to be accountable. Or
they might not be TPTG very much longer.

We want Winter! We want Winter!! We want Winter!!!...


#350 of 352 by micklpkl on Tue Dec 23 20:06:03 2003:

Ent:
'When winter comes, the winter wild
      that hill and wood shall slay;
When trees shall fall and starless night
      devour the sunless day;
When wind is in the deadly East,
      then in the bitter rain
I'll look for thee, and call to thee;
      I'll come to thee again!'

Entwife:
'When winter comes and singing ends;
      when darkness falls at last;
When broken is the barren bough,
      and light and labour past;
I'll look for thee, and wait for thee,
      until we meet again:
Together we will take the road
      beneath the bitter rain!' 

Both:
'Together we will take the road
      that leads into the West,
And far away will find a land
      where both our hearts may rest.' 

J R R Tolkien


#351 of 352 by twenex on Tue Dec 23 20:13:25 2003:

Cool.


#352 of 352 by jep on Wed Dec 24 05:02:33 2003:

Definitely cooler than my announcement (and more accurate, too, as it 
turned out!).


You have several choices: