Grex Rialto Conference

Item 11: Rennaisance Festival

Has anyone heard the details of the Ann Arbor Ren Festival?
When??? for instance...

Ren? Will Stimpy be there, too?

Brian, go to your room!

Oh, you're already there.  Nevermind....

No, haven't heard any details yet, but would be interested in reading
them here.

Will respond when I get the details.  Cynnabar usually is there for 1-2 of
the weekends.  We do demos and run a pop concession stand.

Okay, I picked up a flyer and got the info on when the SCA would be involved.

Childhood Quest August 15-16  Frolic and join in the fun.  Experience
Hollygrove through the eyes of a child with games, a petting zoo, contests,
puppet shows, parades and prizes.

Renaissance Romance     August 22-23  Engage yourself in romantic notions.  L
reigns true as the King and Queen pledge their love in a renewal of vows.  SCA
will be involved this weekend.  We are tentatively planning a court of love.

Tournament of Chivalry  August 29-30  Valiant knights in shining armor take to
the field in the Games Gala Tourney.  SCA will have some sort of fighting
demo/skit.

Peasant Olympics        September 5-6-7  Let the games begin with Tote-a-Bloke
and Press-a-Wench.  Partake in foolish antics in a special celebratory
weekend.  We invite you to help us discover the Adventure of long ago.

Music and Dance         September 12-13  Clecbrate song and dance with merry
minstrels and lighthearted troubadours who invite you to rejoice and kick up
your heels in harmony.  SCA is invited for this weekend, not sure yet what
we will be doing.

Highland Fling          September 19-20  Join us in a stirring tribute to
Scotland.  The Masters Caber Toss Champions once again take to the gamin
fields while the tartan-clad Scotsmane captivate and delight you in the
Highland dance competitions.

Country Wine Affair     September 26-27  King Edward and Queen Katheryne
invite you to savor fine exotic edibles and sample the nectar of the gods in a
splendid Country Wine Affair Farewell Weekend Celebration.

There are Celebrity Challenge Weekends on Aug 23 & 30, Sept 7 & 13; sponsored
by WDIV/TV 4

Admission Prices are:  Adults $10.95 at the gate 9.50 in advance; Children
$5.95 at the gate 5.00 in advance; Children under 5 are free.

10:00 a.m. - 7:00 p.m., rain or shine.  Advance tickets available at all
Kroger Supermarkets, Kessel Food Markets in the Flint and Saginaw areas and
participating Total Gasoline stations.

Form further information, motor coach and group rates call (313)645-9640.
Free parking, no pets.  Located one mile north of Mt. Holly, Inc on Dixie
Highway between Pontiac and Flint.

I had heard somewhere last year that if you come in Renaissance Dress you
got in for half price, but the flyer doesn't make any mention of it, so I
would check first before trying it.

Wow.  I enjoyed having SCA at the RenFest last year; it'll be great to
have them there more often.  Just be sure to bring your armorer...he
attracted a lot of attention (the mock battles were also excellent).

"Merry Minstrels and light-hearted Troubadours?"
Wow.

Renaissance Festival goes on EVERY year, remember???  And there is alot more
to it than the one weekend SCA is there!  (Ok, I know this is a SCA conf, but
Renaissance Festival is an enitity onto itself!)

Most certainly.  A local (Ann Arbor) madrigal group performs every
weekend (Our Lady's Madrigal Singers) for one thing.

where do they perform?  Another RenFest person/musician that performs all
over the Detroit area is Jim Perkins.  He is always as Four Green Fields
(hosts open mike night) and the Old Shilleghleigh.  Is there anyone out there
interested in auditioning for Renaissance Festival?  (I have details if you;d
like them.  I work Ren Fest every year).

Jim can also be found every Friday at Brendans Pub in Farmington.

We've got a tape or two of Jim's.  He's a lot of fun to watch and
listen to.
 
OLMS performs at various places in the AA/Detroit area, depending
on who hires them (such as the Ren Fest).  They also do a couple
seasonal concerts in AA.  It is a semi-professional, volunteer
group, so don't expect them to hang out at a bar on a daily basis ;)
They do small group (4-6 people) as well as full choir-type 
performances. 
 
Owaine Phyfe (geez, I hope I spelled that somewhat correctly) is
another local area performer.  My wife just got his new CD (New
World Renaissance Band) which I believe includes a performer or two from 
the Gypsy Guerilla Band (another fun Ren Fest regular).

Owen Fite (non-stage spelling) is a very good friend of ours!  We not only
perform w/him at RenFest, but at the annual OCC Wassail (w/his wife Paula,
also).  Actually, he has ANOTHER new cd he's just recently completed called
"Where Beauty Moves and Wit Delights".  it's wonderful (of course) done with
the New World Renaissance Band (and yes, it does have member of the GGB) and
Jim Perkins does back-up on one song.

Are you at all familiar w/Gibbon the Troubadour (aka Gary Amadon) from RenFest?
He also does alot of places around Detroit when he's in the state.  he has
a wonderful new tape called "Tillerman's Rye" available.  He's a very close
friend also.

Yes, I've seen him at Ren Fest and camped near his bus a time or two.
We just got the Where Beauty Moves...  that's the new CD I was talking
about.  We've got another of Owen's CDs that we purchased last year
at Ren Fest.
  I might say that it's very fun to camp in the participant area
at Ren Fest.  (except for excessive drumming ;)  

There seem to be a number of folks here or friends of folks here who are
musical.  I'm missing verse 3 to a popular Mayday song.  If someone could
find it for me before Saturday, I'd be grateful.  Verse 1 goes something like:

Come ye young lads, come a-long
With your music, dance and song.
Bring your lasses in your hands,
For 'tis that which love commands.
        Then to the May Pole hasete away,
        For 'tis now our holiday.
etc.

Any complete version would be appreciated.

Kentn, do you work Fest? What particular participant area are you refering to?
(there are a couple in various areas both on Fest grounds and area campgrounds)

Kami:  I'll see what I can find for you!

No I don't work at Ren Fest.  I've hung out there while my wife has
performed with the madrigal singers.  Usually I'll go in costume.
We've camped in the participant camp ground behind the Ren Fest, where
a lot of other participants also camp.

Unfortunately the participant camping grounds behind Fest no longer exist
(unless they change plans this year...new owner...YEAH!)  I've camped there
(w/Gary "gibbon")...always a good time.  MOst people now camp at Jellystone
or the other one on the corner (can never remember the name).  When is HLMS
next performance and where?  (We'd be interested in seeing them again)

Does anyone have any opinions as to changes and/or things they'd like to see
at RenFest?   Does anyone involved w/SCA have an opinion of why the tension
exists between SCA people and RenFEst people?

Wow.  And after they looked like they were going to expand the
campground, too (they'd put in a new "loop" of gravel road last time
I was back there).  Guess the liability of having people camp there got
to the powers that be (either that or fire marshall did).
  Is "the one on the corner" the state park (or is that the Jellystone
you're referring to)?  We've camped at the state park before, but it's
a big pain to get going in the morning when you have to drive to the
Ren Fest and hassle with everyone else driving in early in the morning.
Having the campground out back was much handier and so much nicer at
the end of a long, hot, dusty day than driving several miles down the
highway before relaxing.  Oh well...

I don't think that it's a state park... It's the one that's right on Dixie
only about 1 mile down from fest right before Grange Hall as your coming 
from fest it's on the left hand side. The name always excapes me...
Part of the reason that they're getting rid of the on-site camping is
that the physical space for parking of patrons has gotten MIGHTY scarce.
As of last year, participants could no longer park on-site, we had to 
park at Mt. Holly and get ferried in on big, hot, smelly busses. And 
they STILL had 7 and 8 mile backups for parking!  Kind of a bind 'cause
there's only aq very finite space that they can expand in and I guess that
the participant camping just kinda lost out, unfortunately!

It's easy to explain the friction between SCA nad the Renaissance Festival
when you look at the baSic foundation of the SCA. In general, SCA people
speak scathingly of renfests, since it's not the real thing, and no attempt
is made to re-create the real thing.

        Pattie

Oh please.

How many SCA people put in a true attempt to 're-create the real thing'?
True, the SCA is not as commercial as the RenFairs, and don't fall into as
many of the "hollywood traps"; but lets not look down our noses too far.
Someone putting on a poly-cotton tunic with no trim, calling themselves a 
celt and talking about computers/cars/kidex/gov't/whatever; is not my 
idea of the real thing.

If you would like an interesting test; go to the next outing, and speak of
only things medieval.  :)

PS  This is not meant as a personaly attack on you pegasus, just some spouting
off of my own.

Ok, it is true RenFest is commercial, but the bottom lines, after all IS to
make money.  It'd be a bit gross to patrons if we had rats running around in
garbage thrown out in the streets from the shops, wouldn't it?  So by following
health and civil guidelines, RenFest people do a pretty good job.  RenFest is
an allusion to the harvest festivals when everyone brought their wares into
the village.  It's acting!  (though I will admit to being greatly annoyed by
terrible accents, but I've heard alot of SCA people not even attempt one!)
So if RenFest is acting, I'd have to say so is SCA.  That's why I do not under-
stand why SCA people hate RenFest people so much.  To argue its because we
aren't authentic enough seems a cop-out.  Practiacally, we CAN'T be 100%
authentic w/costumes because of the heat, health laws, & comfort. We CAN'T make
the grounds 100% authentic or it'd be complete chaos in crowds of over 25,000
(as we had last Labour Day).  It is a "taste" of Renaissance life, not the real
thing.  And that's what RenFest people have a hard time accepting about SCA
people.  SCA people (this is not aimed at anyone in particular, just as a
whole) tend to take _everything_ far too seriously, they tend to criticize far
too rapidly and don't watch for their own flaws.  I've encountered _many_ SCA
folks who don't know when to let things drop.  This IS the 1990s and there is a
place and time for everything.  I do not appreciate someone at 2 a.m. standing
next to their car attempting to be a nobleman and actually think I'm going to 
believe them!  It is because of these reasons RenFest people/actors begin
disliking SCA people, but I don't understand their open hatred of us?

This seems to be becoming rather an acrimonious discussion.  And her I was
thinking that the conflict didn't seem too severe in Michigan.  Sigh.

I guess my take on it is that the Ren-folk have every right to resent SCA
people coming in and disparaging their work, when they don't do such a 
comprehensive job of staying in character/period either.  When I go to a
renfair, I try to suspend judgement/disbelief as best I can and just enjoy
the atmoshphere. On the other hand, if I were to suggest changes to the Faire,
I think it might be possible to have more consistent street acting so that
visitors are drawn in more fully, and there are fairly hygienic things that
merchants, including food merchants, might do to extend the image or level
of accuracy.  For example, I wonder if wheeled carts could bring stock to
the food booths or carry it around for sale? Could some of the merchants
cry their wares wandering about?  Could there be more of a "plot" to spark
discussion among the street actors, which might interest visitors? I just
don't see why there has to be such anger between two different but related
groups which can help one another.  Maybe I'm an idealist.

Well, I enjoy the Ren Fest on its own terms, and I also enjoyed the
weekend when the SCA people where there (they let me attend the King
at the joust).  Each group has something to offer and I don't see much
point to either group picking on the other.  I agree that supension
of disbelief is probably the primary ingredient to having a good time.
And I expect that goes for either SCA good times or Ren Fest good times.
I've met, talked with, and made friends in both camps, and I think it's
really great that *anybody* takes the time to participate in an
activity that makes a lot of people very happy.

In re: new "plots" -- I think they could always use a new schtick or
two to liven things up.  And anything to make it look more like a
community (from public floggings to weddings) would enhance the
atmosphere.  Probably they (the mgmt) should work hard at training
the vendors and actors to speak proper English...I expect they already
do some of that sort of work...

As a fest-type-person cum SCA person (ex shire of Stormvail) I can see both
sides of the coin. I have to say that I absolutely enjoy working RenFest
and being able to get payed to harrass people is great! I agree with a
few of the things that you listed above, kami.  The merchants are
an entity unto themselves at Fest, there are very few guidelines as to
how to run a merchandise booth there. A lot of Merchants go to great lengths
to make the attempt at creating atmosphere.  However there are always the 
few that really are only there for the cashflow and their attitude is 
somewhat less that renaissance shall we say!  As for foods, the supply runs
to food stands are all done behind the scenes, there is really no need for
a food runner to ever have to show his face on the grounds proper, there
are supply roads running throughout the site. And as for carts, I WORKED a
food cart last year, so they are there! I sold Italian Ices from a wooden
pusart that I hauled all over the grounds. My arms were sore for WEEKS!) There
are also pickle vendors new this year that have outdoor type spots (although
they sell out of a 5 gallon plastic bucket, NICE TOUCH GUYS ;-)~  Health codes
prohibit the selling of hot foods from a cart that can't  maintain proper
temps. so you would either have to have a portable heating device or a REALLY
long extension cord!! ANd that wouldn't look too good... It's a,  ummmm.... 
MAGICAL SNAKE!! Yeah that's it!!  The street characters are a wide range of
talent levels from complete novice to 20 year veterans and the number of them
grows every year. The only scripting that occurs now is whatever they work up
and happen to remember on the street, impromptu, Hopefully as the number of and
experience level of the street characters increase, they can help to completely
take peoples minds off of the blatent non period things that are bound to be
there in RenFests the world over.

Kentn- I like what you said.
juggler- I know supply runs are done behind the scenes.  I just thought it
would be a nice touch for food vendors to "buy" their turkey legs, etc. from
suitably visible "farmers".  Pickle buckets?! ok.  but why not stick the 
plastic drums in wood, leather or canvas covers?  The italian ices are lovely.

Is there any rehearsal time for the street actors together?  If there could
be a day just for the crew, just before the start of the RenFest proper, that
might help along with the shorter rehearsals.  I wonder if the veterans could
help the novices to have a stronger sense of why this "fair" exists, how it
relates to a putative town and kingdom, what roles medieval people have to
fill (farmer, merchant, craftsman, messenger, apprentice, etc.) and how they
interrelate, etc.  If each character had an internal sense of "who" he or
she is, it might be easier to come up with shtick and to stay in character.
Gee- isn't  that what the SCA is trying to do with the concept of "persona"?
I guess it's harder than it sounds...  Anyway, I wish someone could do a 
workshop for Rennies on speech and accent- lose the fake cockney!!! Cadence 
and word choice can be a lot more convincing, and if we were IN Rennaisance
England, we wouldn't hear our fellow as having an accent unless they were 
foreign or from a radically different region or social class.  Sigh.

I really agree with you on a LOT of points... The accents that you are bound
to hear at fest will turn even the strongest of stomachs! There is a one day
orientation day/accent workshop the Sat. before Fest starts, but it is far
too vague. I like your idea about the vendors resupplying that way very
much, with the only downside that when a rush hits, there is barely enough
time to load stuff in the back in mass quatities and avoid outages. Maybe
a "token gesture" type of thing as a tip o' the hat to the old ways Hmm....
If I ever see another Italian Ice again, I am going to SCREAM! after 7
weeks of lugging them around, you get hazed to the true beauty of them I guess.
As a side bar on accents, I have always been proud of mine (and so modest too!)
I have cultivated a passable (by the admission of several natives) scottish
personae and accent. Although far from 100% historical accuracy, (My god the
Picts and early scots were BARBARIANS, gasp>) I find it to be a good 
balance between outlandish realism and RenFest marketability. ANd a lot of
fun to boot!  

Were you at Fest at all last year, kami??

Many of the street characters are young, as you'll attest, for they are a part
of Academy.  They are taught for several weeks in the summer prior to Fest,
but unfortunately, when you are suddenly faced w/the large crowds, many panic.
I agree 100% that there needs to be more time devoted to helping people (esp.
the food vendors) learn accents and learn character/purpose on a whole.  There
is an acting workshop this weekend to get a headstart on things, but many
peopwho will end up working Fest are not aware of it.  Festivals, Inc. is now
under new ownership, so hopefully you will see a change in some thing this
year? I, too, pride myself on my passable accent (of course I lived in London,
so I have a slight advantage to others)and try to demand that anyone working
for me work hard on theirs.  

Street people have been added last year beyond the Academy kids with the intent
of working to bring patrons into shops and entertain during long waits for the
food. (A concept Juggler started 3 years ago)  Unfortunately, you sometimes
get people who find it more fun to "play" with other characters, rather than
entertain.  I, personally, have much more fun thinking up character situations
to play w/patrons.  While I know alot of workers, its the people who are there
spending the money, WANTING to be entertained, Wanting to BELIEVE.  Friends &
I change our character slightly w/the theme of each weekend (often sewing new
costumes the night before even).  This is what I wish could be expressed more
to characters/workers!

  **What does anyone like most at RenFest?  Why?**

Yes, I was there one weekend with the SCA group: we did a Court of Love and
stuff like that.  It's a lot of fun.  Unfortunately, the lady who loanded me
a Tudor costume has given away all the ones that were too small on her, and 
even that one was a bit long.  Sigh. But I'm sure I will be there again this
time.  If Timothy is up to it, I might bring him as a "page", too.

Juggler and Kimba, you both seem to know almost exactly what I'm talking about,
so it can't be that novel a concept.  Perhaps the "old timers" can keep helping
and redirecting the kids, ideally while staying in character.  It would 
probably be seen as too high-handed for SCA folk to offer help with character
development, plot, costuming and movement, which is a pity.  I'd love to help.
On the other hand, there are certainly those well-meaning people who WOULD be
too high handed...

Actually, I think that interplay between characters, done where patrons can
hear and perhaps join in, is JUST what needs to happen, with the occasional
comment directed to an interested visitor; "And what do you think m'lady? Have
you a solution to this problem?"  "M'lord KNOWS how insolent and unreliable
the peasants are getting these days- perhaps they are getting too much to eat."
"Aow, Guv'ner, 'e thinks 'e can charge kings' proices for 'is owd rubbish. It's
'arvest time- Oi c'n get makings for the banquet anywhere." etc.  -These are
all MIDDLES of bits of business, which lend reality.  They don't look so staged
as just coming up to a patron and starting a bit.

I bet the people who do adapt their costumes and characters (or at least
topics of discussion- the character may be fine as is) have a LOT more fun
than those who do the same shtick over and over.

I like the performances, especially music, the best.  Jousting is sort of
fun, although I tend to look at it with a modern eye for the horses.  The 
kids' area is lovely, as is the whole site.  When I have the time (not chasing
kids, finding companions or supposed to be working), it can be fun to play
with the characters who are really into it.  Of course, Renfaires in general
are a cool place to meet other members of the local pagan community.  I'd like
the shops better if I ever had any money...

Hope the new management are in it as much for love as for money!

The new management cannot possibly be ane worse that what was previously had!
Dave (the owner) was an decent businessman (I use the term loosely) but
a cretin of a human being (and I use that term Extreeeeeeeeemely loosely!)
There is a lot of room for improvements we all agree on that, but the Fest
still owns my heart!

Kami, one of the best ways to help see that people have assistance w/character
and costumes, etc. is to become a part of Fest yourself!  If you have the
abilities, use them!  We'd love to have people w/greater knowledge than our-
selves!  Audition or volunteer services during orientation.  I can give you
more info if you're interested?  (hell, I'd love to talk to you personally
about a few things!)

I agree with my wife, I'd love to see more people like yourself come help
"integrate" the two worlds... 

right.  what about the kids?  where'd I get the money for babysitting, if
I could get Gareth to where I could leave him that long?  What about
Pennsic- I already have a commitment to merchant with a friend. What if I
couldn't make every day of every weekend?  And worst of all, I tend to be
heat intolerant- how would I manage to stay wet enough not to overheat? OK,
those are all yes-but, and I don't actually have any prior commitments for
that part of the summer.  Keep talking.

What I think you folks aren't picking up on is the important difference that
the Renaissance Festival is open ot the general public, while SCA events are
not.  People can attend the Renaissance Festival in regular street garb, and
pay big bucks at the gate to the event.  For SCA events, people have to come
in costume, and pay very little to attend events. 

This is a big philosophical difference, and why SCA people may feel "holier
than thou" to Renfest people.

        Pattie

Another thing to keep in mind is that SCA people are going to events to have
fun, while RenFest people are being paid to attend and commercialization
plays a big role.

        Pattie

Something wrong with having fun while making money?  >;^}
There seem to be two common attitudes among paying customers- "Go ahead, try
and make me believe/enjoy myself" (ugh!) and "Hey, I'm along for the ride.
Please try to draw me in and convince me."  I think it's that audience we're
talking about playing to, and wouldn't they tend to respond well to players
who are working to "convince" and "draw in" one another?  the sincerity and 
fun are bound to spread a good atmosphere.

And actually, between the sellers of costumes and the visitors who make an
attempt at costuming, it may not be the same level of authenticity but there
can be moments of magic at a RenFest, too.  Perhaps more "magical" for that the
participants haven'
t been doing the same stuff in the same costumes over many weekends and years.

I think Kami is absolutely correct in stating that visitors experience the
"magic" of RenFest because for10 hours they can escape the hassles of the 20th
century and be transported to a more romantic period of time.  Some realize
the Renaissance wasn't all fun and pretty, and some don't.  The point is to
let them experience something outside the realm of modern society.  They are
not overly critical and are there only to be entertained and have fun. And
that is _exactly_ the reason people work RenFest also.  I would work Fest even
if I wasn't getting paid...because I LOVE it.  It is truly a magical place for
me.  My most special memories are there.  And if you've ever been on grounds
during the off-season, the ghosts are unbelievable. From people I've spoken
to (patrons) many h{ve stated they don't mind the cost of fest because{you get
so much.  And they can see the love workers (most) have for what they are
doingI pride myself on talking w/patrons alot, and respect their input.  My
goal is to make them happy, while making myself happy...so what if I get paid
for it at the same time, all the better.

Kami:  How old is Gareth?  If he's not too young, he could always be one of
the "Yellow Pages".  If you are talented you can work out schedules to work
only on certain days.  (You're biggest help would be before fest even began,
working w/people to establish characters before hand.)  People are always
willing to help w/scheduling problems.  And as for the heat...I was 8 months
pregnant during RenFest last year (in those _horrid_ heatwaves, if you
rememberbut I still managed to work.  There is plenty of water and people
w/fans in the back of their booths, and are usually always willing to help out.
 That's the great thing, most everyone will help someone out, you just have to
ask. Are we getting any closer to convincing you?  :)

Yes, you are probably getting closer to convincing me, especially about helping
out before hand.  Anyway, not Gareth- he's not yet a year an a half, still 
nursing for cuddles, and awefully clingy.  He's the main reason I'm not 
working just now.  Timothy, on the other hand, is 4 1/2 and would probably
love dressing up in garb, talking  to the king, etc.  He's not real reliable
yet, but very outgoing.  As to heat and pregnancy, you have more fortitude 
than I.  But perhaps the details are better worked out in mail.  

By the way, why don't we ever see you in Smalls, Kimba?...

Kimba says:

visitors experience the
 "magic" of RenFest because for10 hours they can escape the hassles of the 20th
 century and be transported to a more romantic period of time.

Give me a break!  People go to the Ren.Festival to shop, to each turkey legs
and to watch the jugglers.

        Pattie

Eating whole turkey legs, watching jugglers (of which I am one!) and buying
crystal sticks and bojii stones are things that i would DEFINATLY consider
escaping the 20th century.  Not seen many jugglers in board meetings lately.
The 20th century hassle is the parking situation!  But many people go for 
things than what you have mentioned pegasus, things like shows and music of 
the renaissance and the jousts etc...  There really is a magic around the 
RenFest and I would say that even if I hadn't met my wife there!  I guess 
that I'm just not the cynical type...

Pattie, talk w/patrons and you will find that many people (most) are there for
the atmosphere more than to shop and eat.  There are ALOT of people who don't
even know SCA exists, and even if they do wouldn't get involved.  NOt because
they don't like it, but because they don't have the time, means or want to.
Therefore, RenFest is their chance at escape.  And to them, it is! You can't
deny them that.  I'm not trying to put across that RenFest is better than SCA,
just that its different.  It is an alternative. Personally I've wanted to be
involved w/SCA because I love the time period so much, but I haven't met a
group yet that I've felt welcome with.  Even when I tried to get info at the
Howell MelonFest SCA set-up last year I was talked down to, made to feel infer-
ior.  Why would I want to get involved w/that particular group then?  I think
SCA does alot a great things, but so does RenFest and that's where my heart
lies.

Hey- I first heard about the SCA at a RenFaire.  I liked the idea even though
it was being run down in the usual way...  Didn't join where that Faire was,
though- it was in Florida, where my parents live.  People in Vermont are MUCH
cooler.  Speaking of which, pardon me, but the Midrealm (and Cynnabar in 
particular- Ann Arbor) are unfortunately known for stoginess.  Appologies to
any who have been so alienated.  And to the many but too quiet local SCA folk
who do NOT talk down, patronize, insult or make light of anyone's interest.
There are, as is usually the case, just a few LOUD jerks.  Some of the jerks
even really mean well- they just care too much and are sadly ungraceful. For
what it's worth, I still have some feeling of the magic I found in the East
Kingdom, even ten or a dozen years down the line.  It's the people, wherever
you go.

I'm sure that's the case Kami.  Some people are seriously lacking in grace.
I'd love to know more about SCA, and perhaps join.  But I'd need to know more
and talk one on one w/some SCA folks.

well, try me or Robert Estevez, for Grexers in SCA.  Robh used to be.  So did
bnm's wife Dona, but they don't often show up in conferences.  And none of us
bite unless asked.  By the way, the workshop tonight is dance, and there's no
boring business meeting to cut it short, so this is a good time to show up
and meet people. I believe the location is in item one of this conference,
which is good since it's really hard to give good directions to the EECS 
building on North Campus.  It would be lovely to see you folks there.

Unfortunately we didnt' get around to reading this until 2 a.m., so I guess we
missed out.  But please e-mail me and let me know when the next thing is going
on and perhaps we can find a babysitter and show up?

nah, bring the critter- we do.
Anyway, if I ever figure out where I left my mind, I'll try to start posting
the topics of upcoming workshops and the dates of revels and events.  It's 
just that I'm a bit out of touch these days.  

Out of touch is a way of life with rugrats!! My wife and I both agree that 
you are the one person on Grex that we would really like to meet face to face
some day!

eek! the only one?  Nonsense. 

We have meetings every Monday night.  We have a workshop starting at 7:00
and the business meeting starting around 8:00.  The workshops are usually
aimed at the newer types.  Show up at any of these and ask for Kami or 
myself.  If we are not there, ask for anyone.  Just tell them you are new 
and interested and they will explain things to you; or direct you to someone
that can.  If you are the nervous type, let me know when you are going and I 
will be there or have someone there expecting you.

So, Osgad (how do you spell that?), What's the workshop this week?  And will
fighter practice be in West Park on a regular basis?  When?

For those who care, archery practice is every Sat. at 12:30 in the afternoon
at the Washtenaw Sportsman Club near the 1-94 expressway ramps at Michigan
Avenue.  There is supposed to be practice on Wednesday nights, but I've not
attended.

        Pattie

It is Oscad.  Fighting practice is to be held at West park (on 7th ave)
on Sundays at 11:00 am.

You may want to call 434-9765 before going.  My machine gets all the 
lastest info, so talk to it to find out whats up.

Robert/Oscad

coolness!  I'll have to remember that when Timothy is racketting about on a
Sunday morning- we can walk over.

Robert/Oscad,

What word is there on fencing practice?

        Pattie

Sorry, but I have not heard much.  I don't really have much/any equipment.
And I have not heard much in the way of input from other concerned
citizens.  I don't really have the time/energy to try and start it up on my 
own.  I am willing, however, to help or encourage. (Not to mention
participate.:)

I REALLY want to learn fencing, but don't know where to go.  ANy suggestions?

Well, it depends on what you mean by "fencing".  I've been
hanging out at the A^2 YMCA for a number of years.  You can
pick up foil, sabre, and epee there.  However, exposure to
David Hoornstra has given me a taste for a heavier (non-modern)
weapon like a rapier.  (No reflection on David, I just like
the weapon!)  I've been doing this informally, but I showed
up the last SCA meeting and talked to the fencing master (Fiona,
I believe).  It sounds like they're starting slowly, but I'll
probably be spending some more time there.

I do not believe David would have a problem.  He also enjoys the 'heavier'
blades and the medieval techniques used.  My guess would be for him to be happy
 about your choice.  Keep in mind, however, that the SCA is currently using
epee's for their weapon of choice.  There are plans for expanding to  double
wides and/or Schlagers.  And the methods used ala SCA will be different than
olympic style.

I've used the Schlagers before.  That would be a bit better than the epee.
The modern epee isn't quite a period weapon.  I've found that there's a 
considerable difference in tactics.  The rapier is heavy enough that
a lot of the flashy epee movements just aren't practical.  Thanks for
the info, though.  

The schlager/epee *is* , however, about the same weight as a rapier-foil. A
rapier-foil being what they would have used to practice rapier fighting.
Using one of these would be re-enacting what it would/may have been like to
train touse a rapier.

But yes, I have used period weight rapiers to fight with; it is pretty
invigorating.

Robert.

Right, what I meant to say was that the Schlager blade is a bit closer to the
weight of a period rapier than the regular epee.  However, I hadn't heard of
a rapier-foil.  I was under the impression that most training used the full-
weight blade with and absurdly large padded tip to prevent insertion into
the body, eye sockets, or any other potentially unpleasant place.

By the way, I forgot to apologize for going off on such a tangent to the
original purpose of this thread.  Robert and I are now off on a more
appropriately named thread.

A thread, by any other name, ...

Re Fencing, they teach it over at schoolcraft college Friday evenings
starting at 6 or so.

Also, they're going to apparently have a fencing club, for 25 bucks a semester
meeting at 8 o'clock under McLaran starting winter semester...

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