55 new of 219 responses total.
That's true. I wonder if the original item was an attempt to find out what good books everyone has, or what. It's been dead for so long.
Don't feel like reading back through it, either?
I still know several people practicing in the magickal traditions
these days, but, with a few exceptions, it seems to be much more low-key,
and I'm not sure why.
Nah. Not that interesting, I guess. Is it? I guess people are more involved with, or at least more interested in discussing, political and economic issues. Although, I'd like to see us more connected, more committed to preserving civil liberties and the like, since we are certainly potential targets for the voices of repression.
Ten years ago I would agree strongly with that position. Undoubtedly
it's the crowd that I associate with (where homosexuality and strong political
views of any stripe is accepted with open arms), but I haven't seen any
anti-Pagan prejudice, and it's almost hard to believe that it still exists
nowadays.
I know that can't be, and isn't, everyone's experience, however.
If you follow the news- both mainstream press, and specialized outlets such as "witch vox", it becomes apparent that, from the moment the current administration took office, they began trying to dismantle gay rights, religious diversity,etc. Thing is, sometimes they use the language of the left to further their agendas; currently, in order not to lose certain federal funding, schools must have a policy that "neither promotes nor discourages" prayer or religious activity. This is intended to insure, particularly, that "student led" prayer cannot be limited. I don't recall the exact wording, but it also makes it difficult for a teacher to run a comparative-religions unit, or to take a field trip, for example, to the Buddhist Temple.
I didn't have the impression that Bush was able to do a very good job
of that, though. I know that he hasn't, despite trying, been able to make
a significant dent in any gay marriage states, or, outside of proposing a
voucher program that didn't meet with sufficient approval, religious education
of religions other than his own.
What are you talking about the wording of, in #169? The rider about
neither promoting or discouraging?
I hope you're right about Bush's lack of success. Someone pointed out that Mr. Democrat Clinton did little to slow down the agenda of the religious right, so perhaps Christian Bush will have as little success furthering it... >What are you talking about the wording of, in #169? Possibly mixing two bits of information; one is about a peice of federal legislation aimed at creating a chink for school prayer to weasel in. The other is in a Grand Rapids area policy that is already in effect== the lines about teachres "neither promoting nor discouraging" student religious activity. I don't recall from the article whether that policy is in accord with the Federal one, or not. One concern; Bush seems to like "executive orders" as a way around congress. Which leaves his successor to countermand them, I guess.
I'm not a big fan of the "don't ask, don't tell" brand of legislation,
which I'd consider the "neither encourage nor discourage" wording to be a part
of, but it does serve a useful purpose. While it doesn't safeguard open
freedoms, it can be used as a powerful tool to protect private freedoms.
And what about National Prayer Day falling almost on May Day? Mayybe
Bush is a closet Irish-Celtic pagan. Though I'd hate to think what that'd
say about the Irish-Celtic.
>I'm not a big fan of the "don't ask, don't tell" brand of legislation Fits in perfectly with Bush's brand of "corporate takeover" autocratic leadership. And what about National Prayer Day falling almost on May Day? Oh, I missed that one. I think we *should* get out and pray- in public- with a maypole and bonfire, lots of chanting and dancing and incense... <eg> Seriously- Christianity has been co-opting pagan holidays since it began.
I prayed that he leaves office peacefully soon, personally ...
It does bug me that it's obvious he's declaring holidays to support
things in his personal agenda, but nobody seems to know about them, and fewer
seem to care. :)
Is anyone else reading this thing? I mean, I'm enjoying the conversation, but it's open to more than just us two. <sigh> Well, that's just the point; is Bush's "personal agenda" really in line with a majority of the country, or is there just a "mouthy minority" which are getting an outsized degree of influence because they care enough to push their agenda, by legitimate or covert means, while the rest of us shrug and wait for someone else to fix it? The loss of civil liberties, the loss of civil public discourse through the media, the narrowing of our cultural and educational diversity- these aren't pagan issues, they're *American* issues. I'd like to feel proud of this country, not worried and disillusioned.
(I'm reading it, just don't feel the need to say anything. I rant too much about this subject IRL.)
I'm reading . . .
Well, I think with this crowd, you're likely to get a lot of assent
to that sentiment. I do think that Bush's agenda, political views aside, is
not as moderate as a candidate elected (or not elected) by such a slim
margin should dictate. But I wouldn't agree with a strongly conservative
candidate's agenda if he (and it would be a he) were elected by a landslide,
either.
What disturbs me the most is how Bush's agenda has been breaking the
back of the protest movements in America. Bush has managed to earn the
title of the most protested person in recorded history, and yet has
completely shrugged it all off, and that really has broken the spirit of a
lot of activists.
Another rant about activism: Why is it that a lot of activists
practice the same tactics that they claim to hate? It's endlessly annoying
to me to see, to take one recent example, a friend protesting a golf club's
all-male roster, and then protesting theproposed inclusion of transsexuals
in a women-only music festival.
</rant>
...reading with interest...
I'm reading too.
Gee, I'm glad to see so many familiar faces. So-- speak up! ;) I'm sad to hear that activists are being dragged down. What a wonderful opportunity to re-energize a movement which has become somewhat perfunctory. Perhaps it's just a change in personel: the easily intimidated folks will go away, and more committed people will get involved. My sense was that the time to protest the war in Iraq, for example, was even more important *after* Bush declared victory-- to keep the inevitable euphoria and sense of relief from diffusing people's commitment to peace and justice.
Oh... I'm still here, sometimes. :)
I still peek my head in from time to time. After years and years as a wannabe-pagan, I finally attended a few rituals this year, and I'm still trying to figure out what I think, so maybe I'll even have something to say.
Hey! I miss you guys. Glad you're still around. New adventure coming up- I'm moving to Florida for a year or so. So I'll get to find out what Floridian pagans are like...:}
resp:185 ...older, wetter, accustomed to flying cockroaches... <grin>
Wetter makes slight sense. Flying cockroaches I can cope with. Older why? Know any interesting ones?
Kami -- you're moving to florida? Wow -- thinks keep a-changing (or are you -in- Florida yet?) I'm still in queens, of course.
Moved to Florida last August-- my Mom died two Decembers ago. So I was coming to see my Dad about every month or so until the boys were done with school, then moved to be near Dad in time for this school year. Pretty surreal- we ended up renting in the building where I grew up. Told my Dad that he got one year of our help, then I'd have to go back to A2 for Tim to go to high school. (Yup- we're that old...) Ended up finding an amazing little tiny Waldorf school (neat philosophy, about as close to a pagan way of schooling as I can imagine finding). Good news is that they are really, really good with the boys, and planning to add a high school. Bad news is that it's about an hour from my Dad. So now we're renting a delightful little house on a man-made lake with a hot tub on the screened porch, 5 minutes from the school. We see my Dad one weeknight and most weekends. Tim has started playing hockey again, and is trying out for New World School of the Arts (just in case, and for the experience) with his Euphonium. We'd still like to get back into the SCA, and find some local paganfolk, but I haven't really had time to do anything about it. For Imbolc, we had a huge housewarming party at the new house. Most of the school came. Great time! And you?
We're in Queens, in the same place we've been for about 5 years (with another two year lease, though we really should move when this one runs out). Spiritually, we've mostly been doing the double-solitare thing -- the occasional festival ritual as a duo, plus various daily blessings and wardings (which was more than I thought we've been doing. :)., but not much more, including a lack of spiritual conventions. SFnally, we've been doing a handful of gaming and sf conventions across the North-East, plus Worldcon steadily since 2000 (since '93, skipping Australia, Winipeg, Anopolis, and maybe one more).
Yeah, that's a bit more spiritual community than I've been part of, just lately. A tiny bit of family ritual, and a pittance of casual personal work. Need more. Need structure and discipline to get my brain back in gear. <sigh> I think we are planning to skip Starwood and go to Pennsic this year. I can't believe I missed TorCon!!!! Aaaargh! Be well
TorCon was...really good, actually! (btw, you aren't on LJ or aim, are you? I'm on both of those far more often than here -- on LJ as mnemex, on aim as mnemesys). I'm not at all sure I'll make Pensice this year; it depends, since Naomi (who as you may recall, I often do Pennsic with) just had a baby, and on top of that, Lisa and I are doing Origins, Gencon, and, yes, Noreastcon this year (are you likely to make that last? It's not in toronot, but is in the same -general- area...). I do find that structure and discipline help clear my mind wonderfully, even when they're coming from work. Uncomfortable, though.
sort of like caffeine? <eg> >(are you likely to make that last? It's not in toronot, but is in the same Send me details for NorEastCon- in email, I think, since this isn't really the reight conference for it. I'll see what I can do. >(btw, you aren't on LJ or aim, are you? I'm on both of those far more often
Heh. I do caffeine too, though not consistently. Will see what I can do about NorEastCon details.
Thanks, dear. Pennsic?
<waves> Hello! Anyone still around? just as a, yanno, fyi- I'm JadedCat on lj.
YEs, there are lurkers.
What is lj? What have you been up to, folks? THis item is the "reference library", anyone reading anything good lately? I've got a book called "The Well-Read Witch", by Carl McColman. Haven't spent much time with it yet, but what a neat idea! It's basically an annotated bibliography of good stuff. It's broken down into categories, with some discussion at the start of each section. Wish there had been someting like that when I was just starting out!
lj=LiveJournal, a blogging site. Sadly, not reading much of anything these days, more into cross-stitch, crochet and the like.
Getting old? Or pregnant? (I mean, it really has been a long time since I've heard from you, and pregnant ladies are notorious for doing simple repetitive tasks like needle work.) Been wondering how you were, actually, and Val if you're in touch with her.
Haven't heard from Val in a few years- so I have no idea what's going on with her. And no, not pregnant. I used to joke about having to have 'estrogen' laden activities to balance out the testosterone laden movies I was watching (lots of Kung Fu action type things). These days it's just watching whatever and stitching- in part to help keep up with the 'anne quit smoking' thing. (It's been 3 months now, and I'm quite proud of myself- no babies until it's been longer than that). So how have you been?
Yea! Happy that you're a non-smoker. Tasty! Bummer about losing touch with each other. I'm reading a charming book just now. It's called "Seasonal Magic, Diary of a Village Witch", byt Paddy Slade. It's from Capall Bann books, out of England. It's a pretty basic meander through the seasons with a marvelous, slightly acerbic granny who is not Wiccan, but an old-style British Witch. Fairly similar, but very common sense and amusing. What's anyone else reading?
Well, not really on topic but I'm reading "Princes in Amber' by Roger Zelazny (the big book comprised of all the little books). Very good so far.
You've never read the Amber books before? Goodness! They are based on a pretty interesting philosophical premise- the shadows being less and less like t he original as they get farther away, etc. I remember being really enthralled with the series. Hapl Longest Night, etc. (er, "happy".)
Yerah, I had to put it down for awhile- trying to read the entire thing in a row defeated me. But I'll get back to it- I really am enjoying it. The idea of Amber casting all these shadows- but I am thinking Chaos casts some of it's own.
Yah think?... Good guess. How's life?
Life in fantabulous. I'm getting married in 10 months. Okay, even typing that still seems weird. It's hard to believe I'm actually at this point, moreso knowing I'm the one that proposed first. Next will be kids! Ack! ;) Actually looking forward to that part too. How's life in Florida and the boys? It's hard to imagine how much they've changed- I still remember when I met you the first time and how little Gareth was. Just a carriable-sized baby (and so cute!).
Wow! Tell me about Mr. Anne <g> So cool. A Samhain wedding? <eg> FL. is better than expected in many ways. Lots more nature, for one thing. Come visit... Still have Tigger. Tim's at the public high school and doing *amazingly* well (although his grades could be better). Michael is working free-lance. Gareth had a rough transition this year to a new school, but today we visited a zoology middle- school magnet program, and he's pretty psyched to see if he can get in for next year. We have a pretty little house (we're renting- still own the one in A2- need a new tenant. Suggestions?) on a man-made lake, with a hot tub on the porch. Haven't really found a comfortable pagan community here yet, a handful of puppies- ok, I guess that's my lot in life. At least I'm not having horrible migrains while trying to teach anymore- for that, I'm deeply greatful. There is a public class/circle that I visit sometimes, but it's a bit -hm, sloppy, I guess, to be really comfortable. So I keep looking and considering what to do about it... Reading anything interesting? Or thinking about interesting ideas? Who else do you see that I'd know?
Mr. Anne, heh, I like that. He's a great guy, funny, too smart for his own good, a wee bit arrogant, and a million other things. Met him through some friends almost 3 years ago. He's working on getting into the RN program at LCC. There's a pic of the two of us on the grexer page ( www.grexergallery.net ) under my name and then group. The wedding is on the 3rd anniversary of our first date (sappy romantic people we are... did I mention that? ;) ) I moved to Haslett, which is near Lansing- so I don't think I see anyone you know. Though, you remmber Chris Loughlin (Cat)? I see him from time to time. We just helped each other with the humane society cost to get cats (they had a two for one deal, so he got Dee a kitten and I got Mr. Anne a year old cat). Not doing much at the moment- although I'm trying to see if I can get the Beau's daughter to ConVocation (It is still running, yes?). She's got definite interest in learning more- and I'd like to get her to meet some folks- as opposed to everything solely coming from books. (Did I mention he's a bit older than me? His daughter is 5 years younger than me). Oi... don't have time to finish this now, will come back to it shortly.
Having a "daughter" 5 years younger than you will be interesting. Will he respect your parenting ideas and instincts, when he already has experience? Yes, COnVocation is still running. Wish I could be there, but it's too far and there's too much else going on then. <sigh> Have fun! Yes, I remember Cat. And Dee. ENjoy the kitties. What work are you doing? Sappy and romantic is a good way to be. Have fun!
Having as much fun as they'll let me. ;) Currently temping for a non- profit that helps see to it that the rights of disabled folks are protected. We've talked about raising kids and so on- but obviously the real thing will be different. I'm not worried about things clashing too much, he respects my concerns with the raising of cats. ;) Plus we want many of the same things for our kids. Plus, he was the divorced non-custodial parent, so raising a kid together will be new for him. Though there's a plus in that he has lots of experience with night feedings, diapers, etc., so I won't have to train him. ;) Oh, and the daughter just got married on Dec. 23, so when we get married I'll have a son and daughter right away. I could be a 'grandma' and a mom the same year! ;) That would be weird. Probably won't make it this year- haven't started planning and these things always take forever. Plus, I usually hung out with smoker people (step-daugther to be smokes too) and since I just quit 6 months ago (and still really miss it) I'm a little worried about going. Am still thinking on it. Gareth's middle school has a zoology program? Wow. They didn't have those things when I was a kid! Lucky boy.
Congrats on being a non-smoker! Having grand kid older than your own kid would be odd. Entertaining, though. Is he pagan or pagan/friendly? Religion is another issues that comes up more when kids are involved. Yeah, pre-trained mail-- what a treat. Your temp position sounds really neat. Hope it becomes permanent.
The temp position is covering someone on maternity leave, so I don't have a lot of hope that it'll be permanent. The woman in question is the insurance carrier for her husband/self/new baby, so her not coming back isn't really an option. Yeah, the Beau is pagan friendly, not pagan himself. It's likely our children will not be raised to any particular religion
Ah. well, it's always possible that someone else will leave and need you to take *their* position at the same office. Thing about raising kids in a particular religion; it's easier- they know "what they are". Not necessary, though. But I think kids *do* need the security of a set of family rituals, around holidays and milestones, life crises and moments of great happiness. Kids like customs and rituals. So you will end up building a set of practices that work for your unique family blend. But (from personal experience), don't let inconvenience keep you from creating and sticking to whatever you all decide will work. And the process of developing such traditions will be afun exercise for the two of you!
re: Raising kids/rituals: Yanno, I hadn't exactly thought of it from that point of view. Makes perfect sense though. Some 'rituals' around holidays will likely be in place before we have kids. Definitely something to think about, thanks. :)
Yeah, one of the joys of becomming a couple is developing family rituals, which draw from both your traditions of origin, but are yours alone.
I like the sound of that.
Yup. It's work, though.
Well yeah, I keep getting told that anything worth doing is. Or something like that. ;)
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