88 new of 116 responses total.
Just when you thought there was "hope", the Tigers lost all 3 at Toronto over the weekend: 8-6, 1-0 (10), 8-0. That makes 'em 37-105 with 20 games to go. That's 6 series, where they'll need to average 1 win per series for "safety". Meanwhile, some coincidental humor: http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/arlonjanis/archive/arlonjanis-20030906.ht ml
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No relation.
(son and dad, unless you meant "no relation to the comic strip.") ;)
In the "Arlo & Janis" comic strip, Arlo and Janis are husband and wife.
The Tigers lost 4-2 to the Yankees last night in NYC (Tue Sept 9). That makes 'em 37-106 with 19 games to go.
Heh, the NY Times had interesting coverage, both of the game and of the Tigers. The Tigers reportedly kept the game in doubt until very late, which doesn't make division-leading New York look good in a close pennant race. We can call it a moral victory for Detroit. :)
Last night (Wed Sep 10) the Yankees slaughtered the Tigers 15-5. That makes 'em 37-107 with 18 games to go. Winning 6 of those games, mostly against teams in contention for the playoffs, makes reaching "safety" more and more unlikely. The Tigers happen to be in NYC one more day, 9/11.
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The Tigers have now clinched the worst record among all Major League teams. THey are 22 games behind the second-worst team, Tampa Bay.
They have 5 series left, against KC, Toronto, Minn, KC, Minn. All teams over .500. KC and Minn are still trying to win the AL Central, but Toronto has been all but mathematically eliminated. So maybe Toronto is our best shot.
The Tigers had the decency not to disrupt the 911 observances in NY last night, losing 5-2 to the Yankees. That makes 'em 37-108 with 17 games to go.
They won tonight, though. 20 game loser Mike Maroth shut out the surprising Kansas City Royals, and the Tigers won #38, 3-0. Come on, guys... 5 more wins...
I saw several games on Wednesday nights. It's a shame that they always lost, because I never saw anything recklessly stupid done. It was good baseball and I enjoyed watching it, regardless of the outcome. By the way, did SprotsCenter show a clip of a triple-play this summer? I missed it, if they did. Or maybe there wasn't one anywhere?
That makes 'em 38-108 with 16 games to go.
Yes, there was a triple-play this summer, unassisted even, but I did not see a clip. I finally tracked down a description some where on the web: Runners on first and second, who start at the crack of the bat. Shortstop catches the fly and steps on second to double the runner headed for third, then chases down the runner trying to get back to first. (This was something like the 12th unassisted triple-play in the history of the game.)
The Tigers were up to their old tricks Sat. night, losing 7-0 to KC @ COPA. That makes 'em 38-109 with 15 games to go. I wonder if they are close to the record for having been shut out the most times...
Thanks, Joe. For some reason knowing that it happened just makes me feel better. Probably the family is relieved that I didn't print copies of the play and plaster the door, as I did when Wells pitched his perfect game. [25-year old stepson: "Is this good?"]
Tigers lost again today, to break the team record for losses in a season. They're now 38-110.
With 14 games to go, they're still 5 wins away from "safety".
If they can win 2, they won't, at least, have broken the record for fewest wins (though they will have tied it). If they can win 3, they will be safe from having the worst win percentage ever.
It's the fewer-than-40-wins mark I've been pulling for.
The Tigers got stomped 10-4 by KC Mon night (Sep 15). That makes 'em 38-111, just a hair over .250, with a lucky 13 games to go. They are making it increasingly tough on themselves to avoid 120 losses. When this season began, I think we all felt it would be another stinker. But I know I had no conception of the Tigers being record-setting bad. I mean, they have almost no chance at all to win 50 games. Having wins in only the 40's is humiliatingly putrid in the extreme.
Looks like the Tigers pitching managed to get shelled again tonight (Tue Sept 16), losing 9-6 to the visiting Blue Jays. That makes 'em 38-112 with now only 12 games to go.
So it's not _quite_ time to give up hope of a sub-40-win season. :/
The Tigers were doing all right till the late innings tonight. But the score really shouldn't have been that close - Toronto played attrociously.
The Tigers got shut out again (!), tonight (Wed Sept 17) 6-0 at the talons of the Toronto BLue Jays. That makes 'em 38-113 with 11 games to go. It looks certain now that they'll share at least some portion of the "worst record" with the '62 Mets. According to something in Sunday's Free Press / News Sports section, NY Yankees manager Joe Torre told Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski that even though the '62 Mets were an expansion team, their roster was full of established major league players (obviously not the best ones). Whereas the current Tiger roster is largely "youngsters". So the Tigers should not get overly discouraged, and put themself down as low as the lowly Mets. Sounds like a good rationalization to me... ;-)
The Blue Jays provided another pounding tonight (Thu Sept 18) 10-6 over the stripeless Tigers. That makes 'em 38-114 with 10 games to go. To reach "safety" they would have to play .500 ball, which is twice their winning rate this season.
(They are at .250 right now.)
And 7 of the last 10 games are against Minnesota, which is leading the division and has won 6 in a row. :(
How soon before Minnesota clinches the division and all home field advantages? That is, when can they cool their jets?
Minnesota only has a 3.5 game lead; they will be highly motivated to crush the Tigers. In newspaper stories today, Alan Trammell says the team has "run out of gas."
The Tigers lost again tonight. They had a chance to tie it up in the eigth, but Dmitri Young popped out with the bases loaded to end the inning. They've now lost 7 in a row, and 13 of the last 14. And their winning percentage has dipped below .250.
re 60:
Hey Alan, did they have gas to begin with?
(putting it short, I thing the problem is the players, not the staff).
Tigers lost again today, taking them to 38 and 116. Only one win in the last 15 games.
Something I've only seen mentioned once in the press: In 2002, the Tigers fired Phil Garner early in the season and promoted Luis Pujols to be the caretaker manager for a doomed season. Pujols had never managed before, but he brought in his veteran manager friend Felipe Alou as bench coach. It was, of course, a horrid season, and Pujols and Alou were fired by the Tigers at the end of it. (55-106, the 2002 record, doesn't sound so bad now, does it?) Alou was hired as the manager of the San Francisco Giants, and he brought in Luis Pujols as a Giants coach. The Giants have the National League West title with a 14 game lead. I imagine Alou and Pujols are relieved to be out of Detroit.
At 38-116 the Tigers would have to go 5-3 over the last 8 games to reach the "safety" of 43 wings. It's not going to happen. They and their fans are doomed to at least share some worst team records. Even if they go a respectable 3-5 they will set the record for most losses (121).
Tim Ryan in resp:59 :: One writer pointed out that you are right; by the final weekend's series with Detroit, the Twins are likely to have clinched the division title and might be in a mood to rest their front-line players for the playoffs. I'd forgotten that there were two series left with Minnesota.
Tigers lost again today. That makes 9 in a row, 15 out of 16. 7 games to go. Minnesota needs two games to clinch, and they play two games at home against Cleveland on Tuesday and Wednesday. So they may indeed have clinched by the time they come to Detroit on Thursday. Meanwhile, Kansas City and Chicago are tied for second in the division, 5.5 games back of the Twins. They're both out of the wildcard race. We go to KC next, for three games. KC has won 7 of their last 10.
(Why do you think the Tigers could beat the Twins' second, or even third, rank players?)
The Tigers are indeed 38-117 with 7 games to go. They are the "lock of the millennium" to tie / break the record for losses.
Tigers lost again tonight. They looked pretty good early on - sent 8 men to the plate in the top of the 5th and tied the game at 4; but then they came apart in the 6th, making at least 3 pitching changes in the inning. So they've lost 10 in a row, 16 of the last 17. 6 games to go.
That makes 'em 38-118, an amazing, astounding *80* games under .500 Royals doubled 'em up, 12-6. We're all doubled over in pain... :-(
That's 40 games under .500, if I understand baseball speak correctly. The number of games B is behind A is ((A's wins - B's wins) + (B's losses - A's losses)) / 2 So if you compared the Tigers to a team which had n wins and n losses, you'd get ((n - 38) + (118 - n)) / 2 = 80/2 = 40. But I'm just extrapolating from what I've seen in the newspaper, so I could be wrong.
I understand they're charging $5 for Upper Deck Box and Reserved seats this weekend. The Tigers are 1-93 this year when trailing after six innings. The Tigers would be 40 games behind a .500 team (78-78) at this point, however they'd need to win 80 more games in order to get to .500, so they are 80 games below .500.
I'm thinking of going to a game this weekend. Anyone want to make a Grexpedition of it?
Actually aruba, your "/ 2" logic is what I have thought it *should* be, since it would represent the number of games they would have had to win instead of losing that would take them to .500. However, that is not how it is interpreted in baseball tradition: "# games under .500" is the number of consecutive games the team would have to win to get back to .500. I don't like it, I think it "doubles" the "stat", but it's "the tradition".
How many games are the Tigers behind the American League leader?
The Tigers are 29 1/2 games in back of Cleveland (67-90), #4 in their division. They're 49 games back of Minnesota (87-69), their division leader. If there were no divisions, they'd be 59 games in back of the Yankees (97-59) for the American League pennant. Mark, I wouldn't mind going to the game, preferably on Sunday so I don't have to miss any college football games on TV.
The Tigers pounded out a month's (season's) worth of frustration on the Royals, winning Tuesday night (Sept 23) 15-6. They had gone ahead 7-2 in the top of the 4th, then promptly gave up 4 runs to make it 7-6. But they came right back with 4 in the top of the 5th, and ended up scoring at least 1 run in each of the first 7 innings, something they haven't done is many years. Their previous high for runs this season had been 10. So they're now 39-118 with 5 games left. With 1 win they will at least avoid setting the record for fewest wins. It's still going to be hard to avoid setting the anti-record for most losses.
It's going to be hard to avoid one more win, but I think the Tigers can do it.
Let's put it this way; the Tigers just ended a 10 game losing streak. They have 5 left to play. They can lose them all... and the odds are that they will. I'm hoping for any win(s) they can get. Every one is important to avoid a bad milestone: 1 win -- win #40, at least tie the Mets rather than "pass" them 2 wins -- win #41, winning percentage goes above .250 3 wins -- no worse than 120 losses 4 wins -- not the worst team ever, or even tied for worst ever 5 wins -- a year-ending 6 game winning streak would be a breath of fresh air
Sunday's game is at 1:05 - let's do it. Who else wants to go, besides jep and me? THose of us in Ann Arbor could carpool, and meet the rest of you at the ballpark.
There are some good tickets left for $5. I just did a search and could have bought 4 seats in section 325 (behind the plate, upper deck, middle row of the section) by ordering them on-line. These are normally $20 tickets. I sat there several times during the Tigers first season in Comerica. There's a $3.25 surcharge per ticket for ordering tickets on-line. It might be worthwhile. They *could* sell out for the last game, though I think it's unlikely. We'd surely get better tickets by buying in advance. If we're going to meet up at the ballpark, we ought to pick a place and time so we can find each other. Maybe the Tiger statue in front of the stadium would be a good place?
That sounds good. I'll enter an item in the new Agora. Tigers score 4 in the 1st inning last night, then hung on to win 4-3. So they won't become the first team not to win 40 games. One more win and they'll be above .250, and so avoid having the worst winning percentage of all time.
OK, I entered item 25 in the new agora to discuss a Grexpedition to Comerica.
Yep, they're now 40-118 with 4 games left, all at home against Minnesota.
If they lose all four, they'll end up at .240. Not as good as a sub-40 win season, but they *are* the Tigers, after all.
BTW, those last 2 games in KC (Tue & Wed) were managed by stand in Larry Parrish, a former manager of the Tigers, still with the organization. Alan Trammell was away due to the death of his mother.
Game summary from tonight (Thu Sept 25): Tigers were down 1-0 in a pitching duel, heading into the bottom of the 7th. With runners at 2nd & 3rd and one out, Bobby Higginson's ground ball tied the game at 1. With runners on 2nd & 3rd this time with 2 out, a double brought them both in for a 3-1 lead, setting up a win for the Tigers starter. But in the top of the 8th Matt Anderson continued what I consider to be the swoon of his career, walking 2 of the 3 batters he faced, both of which scored. Reliever Rodney gave up a sac fly and a 2-run homer to give the Twins back the lead 4-3. In the bottom of the 8th, Craig Monroe's solo homer tied the game at 4. The game went into extra innings still tied, until Shane Halter's 2-out "walk off" solo homer game the Tige's a 5-4 win. So that makes 'em 41-118 with 3 games to go. They have now assured themselves not to tie for the fewest wins, and cannot have the worst winning percentage. Who knows, it just might be possible for them to reach "safety" after all, with 2 wins in the next 3 games.
Nope, they won tonight, in the 11th inning, on a 2 out home run by Shane Halter. This is their 3rd win in a row, and it clinches a better winning percentage and more wins for the season than the 1962 Mets. I would say now that the Tigers will not be considered the worst team in the Modern Era. A few years ago, Halter played every position on the field in a ball game. (The manager at the time, whom I believe was Larry Parrish, would have put him in at DH as well, but didn't; it was just a mistake on his part.) From this, and seeing him in occasional games, and hearing him in interviews, you might think Halter is a player to be reckoned with. In fact, he's a scrub; he wouldn't be playing for any other major league team and shouldn't be with the Tigers. He won't be around next year and won't wind up with another major league team. He's really pretty bad. But... good for him. I'm glad he had one good day.
Actually, that was his 2nd "walk off" (game winning & ending) home run this month: The first beat Cleveland.
The Tigers made a brave go of it Friday night (Sept 26), losing 5-4 in 11 innings. They took a 2-0 lead in the first inning, and another lead 3-2 in the 5th on a solo homer by Dmitri Young, after the Twins had tied it at 2. The game went into the 10th tied at 3, and the Twins went ahead 4-3 on a 2-out walk followed by a double. But the Tigers tied the game at 4 in the bottom of the 10th on a 1-out single by Shane Halter. The Twins got the winning run in the top of the 11th on a leadoff home run. So that makes 'em 41-119 with 2 games to go. They can still reach "safety" if they win both. Anything less means tying or setting the record for most losses (which they already have the American League record for now).
It was exciting at the end of the game. I was surprised to find that I expected them to win. It's been a while since I felt that way.
the tigers are my favorite team again. we...except for the mudhens who would KICK THEIR ASS.
I know. I might have to go watch this team next year. They prolly need someone to encourage them and let them know that it doesnt mean they are bad people if they lose. ;)
Tigers are losing 8-4 to Minnesota in the eighth, it appears they may tie the record tonight and go for the record tomorrow
Nope, they're tied at the bottom of the 9th. Come on, Tigers!
They did it! They won! They were down 8-0 in the 5th inning, and they came back against the Minnesota Twins and they won!
They can't even lose properly, can they? ;)
I think they did it just the way I wanted them to!
The winning run: a walk, two stolen bases, and then a passed ball on a strikeout allowed the runner at third to come home.
Ack - I can't believe I game up on the game after 6 innings, and so I missed the comeback.
I gave up on the game, too. (-: I was checking scores on football games on the WWW when I saw the Tigers were tied up. I turned on the TV just after the game was over.
re94: cups hands and yells like stuart smalley: "IT'S OK NOT TO MAKE THE BIG SCORE YOU GUYS, WE STILL THINK YOU'RE GOOD PEOPLE!" slynne is more entertaining at a 'hens game that muddy mudhen is...
It's all the cheap beer. ;)
...and the greasy slabs of mudhens pizza! /munches on a mudhens corndawg
I saw an article in one of the Detroit papers which said that Mr. Illitch had decided to get some good players, even if it did cost him some money. I just heard the same thing on WDIV's 11:00 news. So may be some good did come out of this season.
Sat. Sept. 27 the Tigers came back from an 8-1 deficit to win in the bottom of the 9th 9-8. That was the biggest deficit overcome since 1965. That made 'em 42-119, with *still* a possibility to reach "safety" and avoid all associations with the '62 Mets, by winning on Sunday.
Sunday September 28, the final day of the season, the Tigers used a 7-run 6th (their biggest 1-inning outburst of the season) to gut out a 9-4 win over the Twins, to cap off an improbable 5 wins in their last 6 games, against teams much better in record than they. That means that they do indeed avoid tying the '62 Mets for most losses in a season, and fewest wins. However, this was still a terrible team overall, winning at just above a .250 clip for the season. They did set the American League record for most losses in a season. But since there was nothing to be gained by tying or breaking the Mets anti-record, you can tip your cap to them for showing some grit in the end.
The Terry Foster article Joe mentioned quotes Mike Ilitch as vowing to spend to improve the team: http://www.detnews.com/2003/tigers/0309/29/a01-282569.htm Some Ilitch quotes: "I am going to do what I feel is necessary to field a good team. I am going to go out and sign free agents. I am going to operate like other teams because I feel I have a foundation. I understand our youth and it is not real complicated now. We are going to fill the holes and see how it works. Everybody can pass judgment on it." "People kind of laughed at me, but they asked me what team do you want to pattern yourself after and I said Minnesota. And they laughed and they roared. But they drafted right and look where they are. "It boils down to assessing talent and hiring the best people. "You are talking about the past, and I want to talk about the future. I don't know what good it does to talk about the past." "I am telling you we are going out and getting ball players, and we are going to have a good team. We are on our way up. I cannot tell you we are going to have a championship caliber team (in 2004), but we will be a better team." "This is what major-league league sports is all about -- talent and leadership. Alan can do a much better job if he's given talent. He hasn't had a lot of talent to work with. We turned the kids over to him. We knew we we're going to take a bit of a hit. Of course, we didn't ever think it was going to be this severe."
That article says many of the things I've been waiting to hear. It appears to acknowledge that there is not enough talent within the Tigers organization to compete; that the only near-term solution is to go to the free agent market; and that Mike Ilitch is committed to making the Tigers into a winner. Now that he's said it, he just has to do it, and Dave Dombrowski, the general manager, has to spend the money wisely. We can't have more $10 million per year Bobby Higginsons and $8 million per year Dean Palmers and Damion Easleys; guys who were all, at one time, above-average ball players but never anywhere near being stars. We need to see some guys brought into the minors who have the talent and are given the coaching to succeed at the major league level. Before that, we need some starting-quality every day baseball players. Immediately, we need a catcher, shortstop and center fielder who can field as well as an average major league baseball player and also hit well. The Tigers don't have anyone on the team, or in the minors, with any hope of achieving at that level. The Tigers were able to cut salary for next year by some $20-25 million, and now need to invest that money. They cut Damion Easley ($14 million for this year and next year), and Dean Palmer ($8 million), Craig Paquette ($2 million). They'll also probably lose Shane Halter ($2 million) and Matt Anderson ($3.2 million). In another year they'll be able to dump Bobby Higginson ($12 million); there's no reason they can't apply that money to better baseball players as well. All of those guys were signed to big contracts by Randy Smith, who never had any idea what constituted a good baseball player. Dave Dombrowski is better at evaluating talent. Therein lies my hope for next year and the next few years. If Dombrowski is given the money that Randy Smith was allowed to spend, I think he can build a good baseball team with it. But, we'll see.
Wouldn't it almost be better if the Tigers had beaten the record? Then they'd have undoubtedly hit bottom and would only be able to improve. It's like the Lions: why can't they go completely winless and be a memorably horrible team, instead of dragging out one or two wins per season and being merely on the low end of mediocre? I'm at least half trolling here...
Imagine that... (-: The Tigers can always be worse as long as their record is not 0-162. I think it's a pretty fair bet that they'll win more than 43 games next year. I don't distinguish much between 43 and 70 wins, though; either way you're a last place team. They haven't improved until they're not last place in their division. I hope they won't be in last place again next year. They haven't really improved until they break this string of consecutive losing seasons. This was the 10th or 11th straight year with a less than .500 record. I'd be delighted if they win game #82 next year. They aren't a good team until they make it into the playoffs. They're at least a couple of years away from that. I can wait if they start to improve. (If they don't start to improve, I'll wait anyway, of course.)
No, it would not have been better for them to have set any more records for being the worst team in some regard. Losing 4 more games and having all the "worst" records for themselves would not have made Illitch decide to do something different than what he has already announced. At least this way people (at least outside of Detroit) will quickly forget about how bad they really were.
I was hoping the Tigers would lose out also. As one of my friends put it, "Stupid Tigers can't even lose right."
Then s/he is just as "stupid" as the Tigers. ;-)
I wish I knew how to whorek out what you're saying. I just don't understand it. These guys are from England, and who gives a shit?
You have several choices: