Grex Sports Conference

Item 112: Football in America

Entered by senna on Sun Sep 23 21:51:13 2001:

114 new of 199 responses total.


#86 of 199 by gelinas on Fri Oct 19 03:24:29 2001:

I was surprised today to hear that the Lions have sold out all but one of
something like the last fourteen home games.  Hope blooms eternal?


#87 of 199 by gelinas on Sat Oct 20 23:32:22 2001:

Speaking of Lions, PSU won today.  Good finish, too.  


#88 of 199 by ea on Sat Oct 20 23:45:42 2001:

Syracuse has new Uniforms.  I don't like them.  They replaced the Blue 
home jerseys with Orange.  The numbers are Blue, with a White shadow, 
and are very hard to read from a distance.  They kept the Orange pants 
that they were wearing (that is the biggest mistake, imho ... I think 
that teams should not wear the same color pants as the jerseys (with 
the exception of Penn State's white jerseys/white pants road uni's) 
just don't look good).  The walls around the field at the Carrier Dome 
are also Orange, so the players blend in with the walls.

Oh yeah, they won 45-3 too.


#89 of 199 by senna on Sun Oct 21 06:08:08 2001:

That sounds suspiciously, very suspiciously, like a one-time deal engineered
by Nike.  Expect to see navy back later.  Actually, I've long held that
Syracuse, with fantastic road uniforms and a tradition of doing so, should
wear white at home.  I agree, though, that sounds like a nasty combination--I
don't mind teams wearing the same color shirts and pants, and it can be a
snazzy change-up, but not in this case.  Visualizing it makes me cringe.

Michigan did not play, but got two big breaks when Penn State beat
Northwestern and Michigan State lost.  The effects?  Michigan no longer has
to worrya bout taking one conference loss and losing the BCS bowl bid to a
one-loss Northwestern on tie-breakers.  Similarly, if UM loses to Michigan
State, a distinct possibility, MSU already has two losses.  UM is solidly in
the driver's seat in the Big Ten.  Too bad about MSU, though, because that
game was beginning to look good... it still should be, but the implications
won't be the same.

The really big upset today was Stanford's win over Oregon, a tremendous
back-and-forth shootout that broke Oregon's home winning streak and their
unbeaten record, and kept Stanford in the PAC Ten race.  Only UCLA carries
the torch now.  

Thanks for the uni update, Eric.  


#90 of 199 by ea on Sun Oct 21 16:08:09 2001:

I would've thought it was a one time Nike promotion except for the fact 
that none of the official apparel places either inside or outside the 
stadium had the new jerseys.  If it was just a promotion, they would've 
had the new jerseys in the stores a few days before the game, so people 
start seeing the jerseys and thinking about buying them.  Then the game 
comes, the team is wearing the new uni's, and people are thinking "wow, 
new jerseys.  I have to buy one".  Make no official announcements, but 
wear the new jerseys for one or two games, just long enough to sell a 
bunch, then go back to the old ones.


#91 of 199 by senna on Sun Oct 21 17:44:30 2001:

Might be a coache's idea, too.  I saw a picture at a Syracuse newspaper site,
and it looked awful.  Please tell me that in the actual dome, the shirt and
the pants were the same color of orange.


#92 of 199 by ea on Sun Oct 21 18:33:45 2001:

They did look (from my vantage point in one of the only obstructed view 
seats in the place) like the color was the same on the pants and the 
jerseys.  Apparently, the team had been asking for Orange jerseys since 
the middle of last season.  The team did not know they would be wearing 
new jerseys until they returned to the locker room after pre-game 
warmups.  I think that they should have switched to navy pants with the 
orange jerseys, but that's just my opinion.

I have a friend who is pretty good with photoshop, and he had faked up a 
few images of UM players wearing blue pants with their uniforms, just to 
see what it would look like.  Blue pants with the white road jerseys 
would look fine, but not with the blue home jerseys.  I'll try to see if 
I can find a copy of one of the pictures.


#93 of 199 by senna on Sun Oct 21 20:52:54 2001:

Out of the question.  In football, pants are in no circumstances to be darker
than home jerseys.  I wouldn't be a fan of UM in blue pants at home, but it's
an interesting idea I've thought about for away.

The Lions lost another heartreaker, a last-second field goal loss to the
Titans.  They had just scored on a fourth down touchdown pass to Desmond
Howard in the corner (sound familiar?  Blech.  At least they showed some
fight.  It looks like the major obstacle this season is going to wind up being
injuries.


#94 of 199 by ea on Mon Oct 22 03:44:29 2001:

If the pants can't be darker than the home jerseys, then how could 
Syracuse go to white home uniforms, without also switching to white 
pants?


#95 of 199 by senna on Mon Oct 22 05:31:51 2001:

Well, when I say "home," in this case I mean "colored jersey."  White jerseys,
oviously, can't be darker than pants.  I was sort of hoping to avoid
explaining it, though... after all, a vast majority of college teams where
colored jerseys as tyheir home jerseys in all situations.  A small number
(notably Georgia Tech and LSU) wear white at home, and a few wear white at
home on one or two odd occasions, such as Florida.

In the pros, jersey switching is far more common.  It's kind of annoying,
actually.  Anyway, what I mean is that pants should never be darker than
colored jerseys. :)

How did I get started on this?  Sick sick sick.  Clevland beat Baltimore, the
new Browns franchise overcoming the old Browns franchise, for the first time
today.  It was nice to see, and the crowd really got into it.  Good day to
be a Wolverine in the NFL, too.  Anthony Thomas ran for 188 yards and a
touchdown, and David Terrell caught 7 passes of 88 yards (I think, not
positive of the stats) in Chicago's 24-0 win in Cincy.  Desmond Howard caught
the aforementioned tying touchdown pass in a losing effort for the Lions. 
Jerame Tuman caught Jerome Bettis' halfback pass for a touchdown for
Pittsburgh.  Tom Brady overcame a rough day for Michigan grads Elvis Grbac
and Brian Griese to lead (sort of) the Patriots to a big win over the Colts,
completing a season sweep.  Brady is causing serious controversy in New
England, and has yet to throw an interception in the NFL.  And, lesser known,
Tim Biakabatuka rushed for 120 yards in a Panthers loss to the Redskins.


#96 of 199 by lynne on Mon Oct 22 13:40:32 2001:

(I think the Terrell stat was for 91 yards.)


#97 of 199 by ea on Sat Oct 27 20:00:46 2001:

The #4 team in the nation? Well, it's not Virginia Tech any more.  
Syracuse 22, Virginia Tech 14.  Syracuse actually looked like a 
dominating football team for the first time this season (beating Temple 
does not count).  No turnovers, but the defense and special teams forced 
2, and a safety.  We even managed to get some rushing yards against the 
VT defense.


#98 of 199 by gelinas on Sun Oct 28 03:13:47 2001:

Michigan's tackling was sloppy again today.  Of course, so was a lot of the
rest of their game.  Right up until they got the ball back with maybe a minute
left to play and six-point lead I feared they'd manage to lose.


#99 of 199 by lk on Sun Oct 28 03:50:53 2001:

All I can say is: it's a "W".

What a crazy day.  Michigan should approach 4th in the BCS poll.


#100 of 199 by jep on Mon Oct 29 18:51:36 2001:

Michigan is #6 in both polls, and is 7, 6, 9, 8, 7 and 2 in the 
computer polls which have been released so far.  It looks like they'll 
be about #7 in the BCS this week.


#101 of 199 by senna on Tue Oct 30 03:06:15 2001:

#4.  The teams we're behind are all very good, though, so don't count any
chickens.  Between the chances of Texas and/or Florida leapfrogging and the
low probability of Miami losing (between Oklahoma and Nebraska, we are
guaranteed at least one loss), Michigan is a long shot at best for the Rose
Bowl... *if* Michigan wins out.  That's not likely.  Remember, this is
Michigan State week, and Michigan State can easily take Michigan in East
Lansing, injured or no.


#102 of 199 by ea on Tue Oct 30 04:16:38 2001:

Apparently, the VaTech coach isn't willing to face the fact that his 
team did not play like a Top Ten team, and is trying to come up with 
excuses for the loss.

http://www.espn.go.com/ncf/news/2001/1029/1270567.html


#103 of 199 by lynne on Tue Oct 30 18:01:47 2001:

Bah.  I don't buy the "easily" in #101.  I think it's going to be a good game,
and that MSU has a shot...but my money's on the Wolverines.  The MSU defense
can't contain Walker, and the UM defense is still solid.  MSU's best chance
is forcing turnovers and mistakes, which have admittedly been a problem for
Michigan.


#104 of 199 by senna on Tue Oct 30 22:25:59 2001:

Not a huge problem, but a problem.  If MSU can convert a turnover or two in
the right places, they could win in a shootout.  It's not that hard to
see--some radio commentators were predicting a defensive battle, but I don't
see it.  Both teams can run, and both teams can *really* pass.  Michigan State
has the best pair of receivers that Michigan will face all season, and the
secondary has been known to give up the big play.  Prominent big plays from
Washington, Illinois, and Iowa wound up not having a large effect on the game
(the latter two lost, and the Washington offense was not on the field for the
important parts of their win), but Charlie Rogers can take the ball all the
way.


#105 of 199 by lynne on Wed Oct 31 15:58:28 2001:

True...but none of which negates my scoffing at an easy win for either side.
I continue to scoff!  <set bad french accent = off>


#106 of 199 by senna on Wed Oct 31 18:13:24 2001:

Oh heavens, it's not going to be easy.  Even "blowouts" in this series are
hard, hard games to win.  Michigan was the better team and played the better
game in '97 in a game that finished with a one-sided scoreline, but it took
some big plays to put the game away, and Michigan State started with all the
momentum.  MSU looked like they had it easy against UM in 99, but only a
critical catch by Plaxico Burress in the last two minutes sealed it after a
furious Tom Brady comeback.


#107 of 199 by lynne on Wed Oct 31 18:50:09 2001:

Damn damn damn!  It conflicts with practice...I'm going to have to either
skip practice or persuade my VCR to record properly.  Does anyone know whether
some VCRs are set to not record over tapes which have been previously 
recorded?  It looks like that might be what's happening...have to check.
And oh yeah...Michigan is still going to win.  :)


#108 of 199 by krj on Wed Oct 31 18:54:39 2001:

Lynne, there is a tab on the "spine" of the videotape cassette 
which is to be broken out to prevent recording from happening.  
If you haven't broken out that tab, then the VCR should 
merrily record over whatever was previously 
on the tape.   

Commercial prerecorded VHS tapes will always have that tab removed, 
barring a screwup at the factory, so the owner doesn't erase their
rental movies.


#109 of 199 by orinoco on Wed Oct 31 19:46:14 2001:

(Of course, there's nothing magical about the tab that's built into the
cassette.  Anything that covers over the hole should make the cassette
recordable again.  Scotch tape usually works.)


#110 of 199 by lynne on Thu Nov 1 16:29:58 2001:

I'm aware of that mechanism.  I was wondering if there was another one that
had been developed.  Trying again tonight with a new blank tape...but I
think I'll make it home to watch Friends just in case.


#111 of 199 by jep on Thu Nov 1 21:31:35 2001:

Michigan got #4 in the BCS rankings for this week.  That's pretty good 
for a team which lost it's quarterback, top receiver, best running back 
in history and 3 offensive linemen who went in the 1st round in the NFL 
draft.


#112 of 199 by senna on Thu Nov 1 22:55:13 2001:

And another drafted early in the second round... someone mentioned that there
are a lot of pro teams that would have liked to have our offense from last
year.  I know the Lions would.  With last year's #2 receiver destroying every
defense he plays, and Thomas and Terrell emerging as major forced in Chicago,
and... you get the idea.  

Remember, with all the great things we hear about this offense, Michigan State
held us to 14 points at home last year.  


#113 of 199 by lynne on Thu Nov 1 23:03:14 2001:

How much of their defense from last year did they lose?  I think I remember
people commenting that it was a very young team.


#114 of 199 by lk on Fri Nov 2 01:33:20 2001:

The more important question for MSU: how much of their defense from
THIS year did they lose (to injuries).

Stanford has risen to #6 in the BCS.  I'm still hoping for a rematch of the
first Rose Bowl, exactly 100 years ago, which M won 49-0.  (I'm not saying
it's gonna happen, that's why I'm "hoping".)


#115 of 199 by senna on Fri Nov 2 01:47:12 2001:

Don't count your chickens, although that would have tremendous dramatic
appropriateness (and it would give us a chance to exact revenge for Jan 1,
1972).  


#116 of 199 by senna on Fri Nov 2 03:28:14 2001:

So, here's a primer to the "casual," that is, sane, fan of UM or MSU or any
other type of contest in this state.

MICHIGAN vs MICHIGAN STATE.  November 3, 2001, 3:30 pm EST

Breakdown:  Michigan is 6-1, 4-0 in the Big Ten, ranked 4th in the BCS poll
used to determine the teams that play for the national championship.  Michigan
State is 4-2, 2-2 in the Big Ten, unranked in any major poll.  Michigan has
an outside chance at going to the Rose Bowl national title game and can win
the conference even with one more conference loss.  Michigan State has an
extremely slim, outside shot at the conference title, and is more likely
shooting for a solid goal of playing in a New Year's day bowl game.  

Currrent trends:  Michigan has followed its loss to Washington in the second
game of the season with a run of good and occasionally really good play.  With
solid wins over Illinois and Purdue, the only other Big Ten teams with less
than two losses, Michigan has established itself as the class of the field,
even pulling out a win in a hostile environment against Iowa when playing
flat.  Michigan State started strong, slumped with a crushing defeat to
Northwestern and a bewildering collapse against Minnesota, and hit stride last
week against Wisconsin.  Nobody's quite sure which team will appear to play
Michigan this weekend, but you can be assured that most of the best players
from the defensive backfield will be on the sidelines with injuries
regardless.

Players to watch:  Offense overshadows defense here.  Michigan has been riding
Marquise Walker all season long, and Ann Arbor locals have begun talking him
up for the Heisman Trophy, which he won't win.  He is spectacular, and
contributes huge plays in every game, though.  BJ Askew can play at least
three positions for Michigan, but he has settled in at tailback, where he can
run effectively and catch passes on screens and safety valves.  If he gets
going on the ground early, Michigan will have a very easy time on offense.

Michigan State is *loaded* with skill position talent.  TJ Duckett has
struggled early in the season (well, sort of; reports of his struggles are
overrated--MSU has been able to run the offense through different directions),
but he had a big game against Wisconsin last week, and he will be relied upon
to run over and through Michigan defensive linemen that have been stingy
against the run thus far this year.  Herb Haygood and Charlie Rogers provide
a tremendous double-threat at receiver that Michigan won't be able to match
up with properly, and at least one of them should have a big game.  Rogers,
incidently, will draw NFL paychecks in a couple of yers, so he's worth
watching.  

Key:  Nothing original here.  Turnovers and special teams will have a huge
effect on the game.  If MSU wants to win, they will have to get the ball deep
in Michigan territory and convert for at least a couple of scores.  Their
ravaged secondary is going to get burned by Walker's superior physical talent
at least once or twice, but how they play second and third receivers Ronald
Bellamy and Calvin Bell will decide how efficiently Michigan can march down
the field.  Don't forget, this game will end under the lights, and if MSU is
close or leading late, Spartan Stadium is going to become *very* hostile.



#117 of 199 by lk on Sat Nov 3 00:02:33 2001:

That's a good analysis. And this game will be the real test for the
Michigan rushing defense, ranked #1 in the country.

My analysis is a bit shorter (even if biased): M 34, MSU 17.
(:

[Note: I'm not even hedging my bet; this is the same prediction i posted
in M-Net's sports cf earlier this week.]


#118 of 199 by lynne on Sat Nov 3 18:07:07 2001:

Mmmm...I think it'll be closer than that.  Say UM 24, MSU 17.
Two and a half hours to kickoff!


#119 of 199 by gelinas on Sat Nov 3 23:35:45 2001:

It's 24-20 with four minutes left.  And the home team has the ball.  This has
been a hard-fought game.


#120 of 199 by jep on Sun Nov 4 00:35:51 2001:

Michigan State won, 26-24!


#121 of 199 by krj on Sun Nov 4 01:58:11 2001:

<krj does the happy Spartan dance>
 
I want to thank senna for his pre-game analysis in resp:116.
I thought seriously about working in the garden, because it was such a 
beautiful afternoon, but senna convinced me it would be a game 
worth watching.  I was invited to the home of a couple of other 
MSU alumni and we had a great time.  This was one of the most exciting 
football games I've had a personal interest in.
 
I don't know enough to do any serious analysis, but these seem 
like two badly flawed teams.  Michigan coach Lloyd Carr looked 
*really* unhappy, especially since those two late stupid penalties
(one for a face mask, one for 12 men on the field!!!) kept Michigan
from putting the game away after MSU had fumbled  on a snap (argh again!)
and allowed Michigan to take the lead.

<krj does more happy Spartan dance>


#122 of 199 by senna on Sun Nov 4 05:52:24 2001:

Michigan was certainly flawed today, a depressingly regular pattern in Spartan
Stadium.  MSU usually does a good job of keeping Michigan off its game when
MSU is at home-and those guys were flying for the entire second half. 
Michigan played like a sack of wet napkins all second-half long, but MSU
deserves credit for the out-of-mind quality of play, particularly in the
secondary.  Not for the interceptions so much as for the elmination of easy
options play in and out.  I'm not sure why Michigan didn't try to attack the
secondary too much, but I guess we never really got any drives going to do
it.

Controversy abounds in the existence of the last second (ESPN analyst Rod
Gilmore suggests that there's some home cooking involved with the second left,
but I can't really comment on the accuracy of that until I see a
second-by-second replay.  I thought it should have run off, but I wasn't
watching the clock when the ball was spiked, so I couldn't say for sure.  

Michigan really didn't play a game to win, though.  Countless opportunities
to put the game away, including several in the last drive, were blown in
heartbreaking fashion.  Worse, Michigan never broke--if a team is going to
drive to score, you hope that they leave some time left on the clock for a
desperation comeback, but there was obviously no chance for that.

The place wasn't as intense as some UM-MSU games have been at the beginning,
but it was rocking by the time Michigan scored to go ahead 24-20.  It *was*
really hostile at night.  A passenger jet flew directly over the stadium on
its approach to the airport during halftime, causing no small consternation
in the crowd, by the way.

We aim to please, Ken.  Absolutely cracking game of football today, a perfect
example of.. escape through sports. :)  Congratulations to MSUers, it was a
terrific game.


#123 of 199 by lynne on Sun Nov 4 18:59:48 2001:

Dammit.  I thought the Michigan defense was really spectacular most of the
game...it was *so* depressing to watch the friggin offense go three and out
or just give the ball away.  
What a frustrating game to watch.  I so miss Drew Henson.


#124 of 199 by senna on Mon Nov 5 00:09:48 2001:

I don't, really.  He's gone, and there's no much we can do about it.  The team
that matters is what we have on the field, and it has already surpassed
espectations on offense.  The second half was abysmal, yes, but it was far
more than the fault of missing one quarterback.  


#125 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Nov 5 03:02:34 2001:

I agree.  Michigan *always* has someone who can step up to replace *any*
player.  Navarre is working out.  I don't like the interceptions he threw
yesterday, and there were some incomplete passes (if I recall correctly)
that could have been done better.  But he's working out.  We'll play on
New Year's Day, and we'll be the Big Ten champions, which is all I ever ask
of my football team.


#126 of 199 by senna on Mon Nov 5 03:44:02 2001:

Three wins in the big ten are never guaranteed, so nobody count their chickens
yet.


#127 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Nov 5 03:58:50 2001:

As we saw yesterday. ;/


#128 of 199 by goose on Mon Nov 5 14:13:16 2001:

Okay, I see all this talk of Michigan has pretty much lost their chance at
the Rose Bowl due to this loss.  Why is that, they still have the best Big
Ten record right?  


#129 of 199 by lk on Mon Nov 5 14:34:17 2001:

This year, which also happens to be the 100th anniversary of the first
Rose Bowl game (Michigan 49, Stanford 0), is the BCS national championship
game. Thus it will feature the #1 and #2 teams in the BCS poll rather than
the Big-10 vs. Pac-10 champions.

Historical note: after Michigan's one-sided victory, the Tournament of Roses
(which predates that game) went back to racing elephants (or some such) and
didn't play another football game for about 15 years. Thus while it is the
100th year, it is only the 87th(?) game.


#130 of 199 by bruin on Tue Nov 6 01:47:34 2001:

BTW, wasn't the Rose Bowl played in an eastern U.S. city for one year 
during World War II?


#131 of 199 by senna on Tue Nov 6 02:02:17 2001:

Yep.


#132 of 199 by goose on Tue Nov 6 03:44:06 2001:

RE#129 -- Man, that sucks.  Why did they change it to the BCS crap?


#133 of 199 by gelinas on Tue Nov 6 04:23:58 2001:

The money.


#134 of 199 by goose on Tue Nov 6 05:27:01 2001:

Figures.


#135 of 199 by jep on Tue Nov 6 17:19:35 2001:

I think the Big Ten and PAC-10 didn't want to be left out of the BCS, 
and neither did the Rose Bowl.

Meanwhile, I hope for a split national champion every year.  The BCS 
championship is the official national championship.  All of the coaches 
in the USA Today/ESPN poll are required to vote the winner as the #1 
team, but the AP poll is done by the media and it's possible they could 
pick another team as #1.  Unlikely, but possible.  That's my dream 
scenario every year.


#136 of 199 by gelinas on Sun Nov 11 06:06:01 2001:

I forgot to set the VCR before leaving for Atlanta this morning; did anyone
tape the game?  If so, can I borrow the tape?


#137 of 199 by senna on Sun Nov 11 16:32:09 2001:

I'm afraid I have a blanket policy against taping Michigan games, but ones
broadcast on ESPN or ESPN2 are occasionally replayed late at night on those
stations--check into it.  UM-Minnesota was probably shown last night, but you
never know.


#138 of 199 by mrcool on Sun Nov 11 18:08:41 2001:

who won the game?


#139 of 199 by ea on Sun Nov 11 19:07:21 2001:

Syracuse beat West Virginia yesterday, and Miami survived a scare from 
BC, leaving SU and Miami as the only 2 teams that are undefeated in Big 
East Conference play.  Next week's matchup between the two has become a 
huge game.  A lot of people who were saying at the beginning of the 
season that Syracuse didn't have a chance are changing their tune 
somewhat.  I think the general opinion on campus is that it will be a 
close game, rather than a blowout, and it could go either way.


#140 of 199 by gelinas on Sun Nov 11 21:30:46 2001:

Thanks for the pointer, Steve.  I don't see it on tonight's schedule, so I
guess I missed it.


#141 of 199 by bruin on Mon Nov 12 01:58:03 2001:

RE #138 Michigan beat Minnesota 31 to 10.


#142 of 199 by krj on Fri Nov 16 04:33:36 2001:

Detroit TV note: channel 4 sportscaster Bernie Smilovitz just announced that
"Sports Final Edition" will be resurrected for the 11:30 pm Sunday time 
slot.  Fred McLeod will be the host.  The station showed some of their 
Lloyd Carr interview which will be the main attraction this Sunday.


#143 of 199 by albaugh on Thu Nov 22 10:00:17 2001:

Now that it's Thanksgiving, let us all be thankful for the pitiful Wisconsin
"special" teams...  ;-)


#144 of 199 by senna on Thu Nov 22 13:34:04 2001:

Amen.


#145 of 199 by lk on Thu Nov 22 17:32:05 2001:

...and the strong and sure leg of Hayden Epstein.

Not just for making the FG, but for kicking the ball out of the end-zone
on the ensuing kickoff (which should also have been done in the final
minute of the MSU game, instead of the squib kick which was returned to
mid-field and set up, well, let's no go there.)


#146 of 199 by krj on Thu Nov 22 18:18:42 2001:

I found an interesting web page on the question:  Why do the Detroit 
Lions play on Thanksgiving every year?  
http://www.sportsjones.com/sport&society7.htm
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/1930s/thanksgiving.cfm


#147 of 199 by tpryan on Thu Nov 22 22:44:23 2001:

        "...it's become a tradition.".


#148 of 199 by krj on Thu Nov 22 22:48:49 2001:

... and WDIV blew off the second half of the Dallas/Denver game
so they could show "Ed", which they had previously pre-empted.  
Boo hiss!


#149 of 199 by krj on Thu Nov 22 23:18:57 2001:

Um, oops, wrong channel.  Silly me, NBC hasn't had any football for 
years...


#150 of 199 by senna on Fri Nov 23 01:27:16 2001:

Some crazy games today.  Amazingly, I missed the end of both, but they were
fantastic.


#151 of 199 by tpryan on Fri Nov 23 14:07:23 2001:

        So, how did the Lions snatch defeat from the jaws of 
victory this time?


#152 of 199 by senna on Fri Nov 23 15:50:06 2001:

They fell a two-point conversion short of a 16 point comeback to tie the game.


#153 of 199 by krj on Fri Nov 23 16:07:14 2001:

So on the basis of the late rally one might think the Lions might 
switch to McMahon as the primary quarterback; before that rally I 
thought he looked terribly ineffectual, though, with lots of 
incomplete passes.


#154 of 199 by albaugh on Fri Nov 23 19:57:11 2001:

0-10 - by far the worst record of my lifetime.  OTOH, it's not like they're
getting blow out every game, so it seems hard to call them a terrible team.
But the record speaks for itself...


#155 of 199 by senna on Fri Nov 23 21:54:25 2001:

I doubt they'll switch.  He was put in, in part, because the team appeare to
bed doing nothing.  He got some seriously good playing time.  Charlie is still
playing good football, and I think it would be better to keep McMahon at least
partially under wraps for a while, so his development isn't disrupted.

It's football weekend, and we're already having some fun.  Colorado has jumped
out to a 35-3 lead over #1 Nebraska early in the second quarter.  Nebraska
just scored to close it to 35-10.  This is a shocking breakdown of Nebraska's
defense, thought to be among the best in the country.

Tomorrow is the BIG game.


#156 of 199 by gelinas on Sun Nov 25 04:28:42 2001:

Penn State won!?


#157 of 199 by gelinas on Sun Nov 25 06:10:10 2001:

In the "General Announcements" item, Richard commented on reactions to
Michigan's 8-3 season.  I'm ready to see _Navarre_ run out of town, but
not Carr.

He's thrown too many interceptions and uncatchable passes this season,
especially the last few games.  Gonzales falling asleep at the switch
didn't help.


#158 of 199 by senna on Sun Nov 25 17:51:18 2001:

Don't pay attention to richard, Joe, he's just trolling for reactions. 
Navarre is young, and he's not playing with a lot of confidence, but the loss
was far from his fault.  He shouldn't have been the starter this year, but
the starter is in the Yankees organization.  Who's to blame for that?  Well...
the game, which doesn't allow players to be paid.  Drew was too good, so what
are you going to do?

Ohio State needs to take games occasionally, or this isn't a rivalry.  They
hadn't won in Ann Arbor since '87.  It was bound to happen eventually.


#159 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Nov 26 02:25:43 2001:

Yeah, I know they had to win.  And having already lost two this season, losing
this one doesn't hurt as much as it would were it the only loss of the season.

And I knew this was supposed to be Henson's year as starter, with Navarre
using it for experience before he became the starter.  He can still learn,
I guess.


#160 of 199 by senna on Mon Nov 26 03:32:37 2001:

He can and he will.  Jim Cnockeart made an excellent point earlier--Brian
Griese was pretty lousy as a sophomore, too.  Tom Brady didn't really get good
until his senior year, but he was better than sophomore Drew Henson, who
combined talent with youthful inexperience and couldn't get the job done. 
Remember his interceptions against MSU in '99?



#161 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Nov 26 03:41:18 2001:

Yeah, I remember the struggles of the sophomore quarterbacks.  So it's not
fair to expect more of this one. ;)


#162 of 199 by lk on Mon Nov 26 07:14:33 2001:

There's only one thing I've ever heard Joe Paterno say that I liked (and,
in fairness to the coach, I don't hear much he has to say).  "If you don't
get better from week to week, you get worse."  I haven't see Navarre get
better.  I would not bet on him being the starter next year, though he is
the likely candidate given the importance of experience at the position.

I don't think Gonzo fell asleep. My initial impression was that he was
yelling signals to the receiver when the ball was snapped. I think it was
snapped early and was also high.

Carr has a pretty good record against top-10 and top-25 teams.  Maybe the
problem is that we need to play better teams.... (:


#163 of 199 by albaugh on Mon Nov 26 15:18:03 2001:

The Wolves only had 1 significant win out of their 8 this season - the blowout
of Illinois.  The comeback win at Iowa was important, but that is where the
warning signs began.  Probably the most disappointing thing has been the case
of the dropsies that Walker has contracted.

Losing to Ohio State, when the OSU team is superior and earns/deserves its
victory, that is to be expected (and it was during the *real* rivalry, Bo and
Woody).  But to hand the game to OSU is what is hard to swallow.  OSU had *1*
drive that they deserved what they earned - all other scores were a benefit
of Michigan turnovers.  If Walker doesn't drop the TD pass, and Epstein
doesn't miss the ensuing chippie, UM still could have won, which should tell
you how little OSU "deserved" to win the game.

We can only hope that the team gets its stuff together for the Citrus Bowl,
so as to avoid an 8-4 season, from the "bad old days" of Gary M.


#164 of 199 by senna on Mon Nov 26 21:24:23 2001:

Tennessee likely awaits.


#165 of 199 by tfbjr on Mon Nov 26 22:55:12 2001:

While I'm not a fanatic, I can't help but feel somewhat bummed after
Nebraska's loss on Friday.  I suspected we would have trouble with Colorado,
but I did not expect THAT much trouble.

Oklahoma's loss was even more bizarre...


#166 of 199 by senna on Tue Nov 27 02:44:45 2001:

I don't know.  Oklahoma, at least, succumbed to problems that had been visible
all season.  Nebraska's meltdown is as shocking as any I've seen in college
football.


#167 of 199 by gelinas on Sun Dec 9 05:17:27 2001:

So I caught the end of the SEC championship game.  The Citrus Bowl is going
to be interesting, but I fear it may not be much fun.  I hope the offense
can get its act together this month.


#168 of 199 by albaugh on Sun Dec 9 14:26:09 2001:

I believe you're referring to a possible UM - Tennessee matchup...


#169 of 199 by gelinas on Sun Dec 9 22:52:24 2001:

Until today's paper, everything I read listed it as "definite" not "possible".
But yeah, that's what I was refering to.


#170 of 199 by tpryan on Sun Dec 9 23:49:40 2001:

        Well, at least the Lions did not snatch defeat from the 
jaws of victory today.  Tampa Bay just beat them when it mattered.


#171 of 199 by senna on Mon Dec 10 02:28:44 2001:

Depends on how you define it.  The Lions continue to be great theatre.  


#172 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Dec 10 04:12:55 2001:

I watched the last quarter.  Almost, they had me hoping.


#173 of 199 by senna on Mon Dec 10 08:50:04 2001:

Hope springs eternal.  It's fun watching the Lions with a detached pessimism;
instead of worrying about the dire possibilities of a successfully completed
winning drive by Tampa Bay, I am left wondering how they will be able to
produce a touchdown when it seems to unlikely.  Because, after all, they're
certain to do it.


#174 of 199 by tpryan on Mon Dec 10 17:39:38 2001:

        I tuned into the game inadvertently.  When I saw that the
Lions where ahead near the end of the game.  I wanted to see how
they could ness it up.  Instead, Tampa Bay just played better.
Losing the return kickoff just broke all hope, unlikely to see the
Lions do anything with possesion and less than a minute on the clock.


#175 of 199 by brighn on Mon Dec 10 18:40:10 2001:

The Bucs played atrociously except for the first quarter. The Lions let them
win. There's no excuse for not one but two fourth-down 15-yd passes, followed
by a game-winning pass to the *same player* that got the other two heroic
passes.

Then again, I want the Lions to go 0-16, so I'm still happy. =}


#176 of 199 by albaugh on Mon Dec 10 22:39:57 2001:

Now, will next year's issue of the BCS "rules" have something in there about
conference champions getting precedence over those they have beaten,
"regardless" of record?  In this case, I'm referring to 10-2 Colorado having
beaten 10-1 Nebraska, and winning the Big-12 championship, including a win
over Texas, the team that beat them earlier in the year.  This year's BCS put
Nebraska ahead, based on some marginal categories.  But that decision / rule
is a great detriment to the concept of conference championships!  

OTOH, I *hate* it when for the post-season conference tournaments for
basketball, some conference has a tournament champion with a losing record
that gets the NCAA bid.  I think that should be "outlawed".


#177 of 199 by gelinas on Tue Dec 11 01:29:24 2001:

I think Jim C.  had _one_ good idea in his column this evening:  Take the 
pressure off the "national championship."  Two polls, two hundred champions
works for me.  

College football ends on New Year's Day.


#178 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Dec 17 03:58:35 2001:

I've heard that the Lions missed their opportunity to set a record for the
most losses without a win at the beginning of a season:  they now have a 1-12
record.


#179 of 199 by krj on Mon Dec 17 05:11:57 2001:

Darn.  Who will remember a 2-14 season?


#180 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Dec 17 05:17:07 2001:

But who can forget a 0-12 start?  At least until it's replaced by something
more spectacular.


#181 of 199 by ea on Mon Dec 17 05:26:57 2001:

there's always next year


#182 of 199 by brighn on Mon Dec 17 16:04:22 2001:

#180> there's been an 0-15 season.
 
The Lions are now *tied* for the worst record in football, with Carolina, who
(with 12 losses in a row) could still nudge the Lions for the worst record,
and the longest losing streak (the Lions had had 13, including 1 from the last
season, although the *longest* losing streak belongs to Tampa Bay, I believe,
which didn't win a game until its 27th, in its second season).


#183 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Dec 17 22:26:17 2001:

I thought the worst start had been Tampa Bay at 0-14.  That was the record
I expected them to meet and maybe beat.

I think it'll take more than a few 8-8 seasons to wipe out the memory of this
one.  A 16-0 next season _might_ do it.


#184 of 199 by brighn on Tue Dec 18 01:05:54 2001:

oh, I think you're right, TB went 0-14 then 2-12.


#185 of 199 by gelinas on Sun Dec 23 05:13:53 2001:

The other day, I started reading some columnist's opinion that Tom Brady was
a 'fraud'.  I read about half of it and gave up, setting it aside for later
consideration.  ESPN2 just showed some highlights of an apparently recent
game, one of which was Brady catching a pass for a first down.  


#186 of 199 by albaugh on Tue Dec 25 07:45:03 2001:

I don't see how a "fraud" could survive in the NFL...


#187 of 199 by ea on Wed Jan 2 22:23:25 2002:

Ouch.  That was not a good football game.  It's only Michigan's worst 
bowl loss in history ...  Michigan spent too much time trying to 
establish the run, and it took Lloyd Carr too long to realize that The 
Run had been established, and it was not working.  I know, traditional 
Big Ten offense requires having a strong running game, but if you have 
a good passing offense, it will open up the defense, and allow you to 
run the football.

In other Big Ten news, Ohio State went from being down 28-0 to having 
the game tied at 28-28, then losing to South Carolina, on a last second 
field goal (only over the bar by about 3 inches)


#188 of 199 by gelinas on Thu Jan 3 03:35:41 2002:

Yeah, but Michigan doesn't seem to have much of a passing game, either.


#189 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Jan 7 04:54:48 2002:

So the Lions said good bye to the Silverdome by winning.  I'd have liked to
have seen the game, now that I know how it turned out.  It looked like they
got an "excessive celebration" penalty after the second (?) touchdown.


#190 of 199 by ea on Mon Jan 7 18:29:22 2002:

It wasn't an "excessive celebration"  The flag was for a facemask on 
the defense.  The penalty was assessed on the ensuing kickoff.  
Although, if the NFL had the excessive celebration rule, Johnie Morton 
would've been flagged for doing the "worm" dance in the endzone after 
he scored that touchdown.


#191 of 199 by gelinas on Tue Jan 8 03:47:17 2002:

All I saw was him flopping around and a flag being thrown in front of him.
Sometimes, highlights aren't enough.


#192 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Jan 28 04:51:00 2002:

I watched the Patriots beat the Steelers today.  A couple of the calls seemed
really wrong, but when all was said and done, my team won.


#193 of 199 by tpryan on Mon Jan 28 23:36:08 2002:

        As I was waiting for the Simpsons to begin, the commentators
where saying that this was the *big* game while the Superbowl is
a reward for a conference championship.  The other returned with,
no, it's the goal to make it to the Superbowl and win the Superbowl.

        I can see where some of the logic comes from.  If the Patriots
walk all over the competition in the Superbowl, then I can see looking
back and saying the the conference championship was the "super" game
to have won, as the logic would be that the Steelers also may have
wiped the floor with the competition.

        Of the playoff games thusfar, which one was the best?
From you as a fan viewpoint, and as a toughest game to win 
basis.


#194 of 199 by gelinas on Tue Jan 29 05:37:40 2002:

The Patriots game was the first professional game I've watched in memory. 
I'm no judge.


#195 of 199 by albaugh on Wed Jan 30 23:20:32 2002:

Let's see who's old enough to be able to remember what the "Playoff Bowl"
was...  :-)


#196 of 199 by gelinas on Mon Feb 4 00:46:02 2002:

No, I don't remember that bowl, but I *probably* am old enough to.

So I'm watching the Superbowl.  Again, the Patriots defense is doing better,
offensively, than the Patriots offense.  Still, as long as they keep it up,
I'll be happy. :)

Brady looked pretty good on the first few plays.


#197 of 199 by jep on Mon Feb 4 03:36:34 2002:

It turned out to be a really good game!  New England actually won on a 
last-second field goal.  The final score was 20-17.


#198 of 199 by tpryan on Mon Feb 4 16:58:58 2002:

        Hearing the end of the championship game, I thought the Patriots
where supposed to wipe the walls with the Rams.  Little I know.  I did
see the end of the Superbowl.  Hey, good to see that it did turn into
a match of the champions.
        It kinda negates my asking the question again about "Was there
a game that was more Super for the Patriots in the championship series?".
Can it be said that an earier game gave them a tougher opponent or
where we seen better play?


#199 of 199 by albaugh on Tue Feb 5 16:49:04 2002:

Time for U-M fans to be proud of their alums in the Super Bowl:  Brady on
offense, Ty Law on defense.  :-)

The "Playoff Bowl" was an old NFL thing where the losers for the conference
championships would play a "consolation game" prior to the Super Bowl.  It
was deservedly scrapped:  Who wants to lose *2* playoff games at the end of
the season?!


There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: