44 new of 56 responses total.
I was unaware that there was a movie version of any Heinlein work save for _The Puppet Masters_. (_The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_ would make a decent miniseries.)
Heinlein worked on the script of at least one movie, I know; unfortunately I can't remember the name. Hmmm, where did I see that. I also happen to be the proud posessor of a copy of the Starship Troopers pencil-and-paper "bookcase game", from Avalon Hill. I have yet to play it, though. I really do think "Dave" was a ripoff, and I haven't seen Heinlein credited for it anywhere. I bet if he was a live he'd sue their butts. :)
One of the early MST3K movies was written by Heinlein. I'll see if I can find the name.
Heinlein worked on the script, and together with Chesley Bonestell, was technical consultant for the 1950 production of George Pal's _Destination Moon_.
That's it, I think. And it was in the list of MST movies that I read about it.
If it was writtin by Heinlein did it really deserve the MST3K
treatment?
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (This wasn't exactly The Moon is a Harsh Mistress...)
Someone told me that they made a TV miniseries (in Britain or Canada, I don't remember which) out of Red Planet. I'd love to see that someday.
From what I heard about Destination Moon, yeah, it deserved the treatment. They had a rather insipid 5 part minisieries on US TV (animated) from Red Planet. My faves? _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ is definately there, so is The Menace From Earth and Podykayne and Double Star. Then mabye some of his other juvies. Note that Double Star is itself a homage to the Prisoner of Zenda (the sequel of which is pretty bad), just as the Roling Stones and Trouble with Tribbles got the idea from the same source. .s
Sorry to hear the miniseries wasn't great. What was the source that The Rolling Stones & Trouble with Tribbles got their idea from? (Not to imply that there was only one plot in The Rolling Stones; the episode with the flat cats is one of many.)
Agreed that "the idea" refered to the idea shared between them, not the only
idea in The Rolling Stones.
Don't remember the source for the "fuzzballs that breed schtick;" think
it's in Expanded Universe, though.
I just read "Waldo" and "Magic, Inc." Very old Heinlein; the copyrights in the front ranged from 1940 to 1950. Not as good as some of his other stuff, I think, but not bad. He's still the only writer that's been able to make politics sound even remotely interesting to me.
Make what? Waldo and magic Inc were nice; they were some of the first Heinlien I read.
(I'm sorry mneme, I don't understand the question.)
Have spacesuit, will travel. Great book Waldo and magic inc. Podkayne of Mars Starship Troopers. All were my introduction to SF
aruba: for some reason, the first tim e I read #24, the line starting with politics iddn't appear:( But his stuff isn't pure politics; more political philosopy.
Right, I agree. But mostly when I hear about politics in real life, I am just disgusted and bored. But when Heinlein talks about it (I guess Double Star is the best example, although characters play politics in Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Stranger in a Strange Land, too), it sounds really exciting. Double Star almost made me wish we had a figure like that main character in our political system today. I think Heinlein would have liked Ross Perot. :)
I read "The Door into Summer" recently. A pretty good time-travel book, I thought, if a bit predictable. Not a source of feminism, though. I really like reading Heinlein when the world seems to be crumbling around me, and people are acting in ways I can't understand. Heinlein knows *exactly* how people will act (because he writes them), and he manipulates them out the wazoo. It's delightful to see his heros cut through all the bullshit of life and get their way in the end.
What do you think of Heinlein's Future History series? The paperback omnibus edition that collected several stories annovels introduced me to SF stories. I particularly enjoyed _Methuselah's_Children_ despite the fact that the longer lifed people went to another star system with a magic box. Just press the button and you're there. Speaking of magic devices, has anyone read _Sixth_Column_, the novel where some white guys fight off Asian invaders with a magic stick? Are magic devices a trend in his SF?
I'm working my way through all of Heinlein's works, and I finally got to Sixth Column, so I can answer the above post. I thought it was pretty bad. I was rather surprised at all the racial slurs Heinlein throws around; in a number of other books he very deliberately makes the point that racism is stupid. But Sixth Column was written in 1941, and I guess tensions were high... I can't think of many "magic devices" other than the two you mention, Mike. I mean, there's lots of times when people encounter forces they don't understand, but not too many times when they pull a rabbit out of their - uh - shorts and win by virtue of it. Often Heinlein's stories are about how humans can use their wits to out smart other humans; about how one can use one's mind to overcome obstacles. (And often his villians act really stupidly, which is always a disappointment.)
What would everyone suggest as a good next book of Heinlein's for someone who's read Starship Troopers and Stranger In A Strange Land? I loved them both, but can't decide what to read next. I tried just a random one I picked up at the library (green hills of earth) and couldn't get into it..
Generally the older ones are better than the most recent ones. "The Puppet Masters" is pretty good.
"Starship Troopers" and "Stranger in a Strange Land" are two of Heinlein's four novels which won the Hugo Award. The other two were "Double Star" and "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". "Starship Troopers" was published in 1958, I believe, and "Stranger in a Strange Land" was published in 1961. Other books published around the same time were "The Door Into Summer", "Have Space Suit -- Will Travel", "Farnham's Freehold" (one of Heinlein's most forgettable books in my opinion), and "Glory Road". The two you mentioned feature Heinlein in his most didactic voice. (Those who criticize them say he sounds like a preacher.) He preaches a lot in "Farnham's Freehold", "Citizen of the Galaxy" (one of my favorites), and "Time Enough For Love", and in many of his other books, too. "Starship Troopers" was the last book he wrote intended as part of his series of juvenile novels. Other Heinlein juvenile novels include "Rocket Ship Galileo", "Between Planets", "The Red Planet" (which has the same Martians as "Stranger in a Strange Land"), "Have Space Suit -- Will Travel", "The Star Beast", "Podkayne of Mars", and "Citizen of the Galaxy". If you can find a copy, Alexei Panshin's "Rite of Passage" is written in the same style as Heinlein's juvvies, and is fully as good as *any* of them. (That there is high praise from me, as Heinlein was unquestionably my favorite science fiction writer.) "The Green Hills of Earth" is a collection of short stories, part of Heinlein's "Future History". Most of the collection of short stories is available as "The Past Through Tomorrow", and he has some novels set in the Future History as well. I'd go back and try again. Some of those stories are brilliant, outstanding, and extremely influential among science fiction writers. That ought to get you started.
"green hills of earth" was the other one I've tried. I could get into it... But I'll try some of those you suggested. Thanks.
"Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is definately where you should go next. "The Puppet Masters" is also a good choice. "I Will Fear No Evil" and "Time Enough for Love" represent the start of his escape from editors and his descent into self-indulgence, but still have some redeeming virtues.
Heinlein's book "Stranger in a Strange Land" was the first one of his which was released "in unabridged form" by his widow after he died. She touted it as 50% longer, and containing a treasure trove of great additional story parts. I'd agree it's 50% longer... I cite it to people as an example of just how much an editor can do for a writer, even a terrific writer like Heinlein. Read the original published version, not the uncut version.
Re #37: (If I can RE a post that is 2.5 years old) I honestly couldn't find anything at all worthwhile in "I Will Fear No Evil". It just went on and on and on, and nothing happened. Re (jep) - how do you know the Martians in Red Planet are the same as the ones in Stranger in a Strange Land? There's an oblique reference to a Martian insurrection of some sort in "The Rolling Stones", so I figured that that book and Red Planet were in the same universe. But the grandmother character in The Rolling Stones also appears in THe Moon is a Harsh Mistress, so by that logic, THe Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Stranger in a Strange Land would be in the same universe. Not sure if that makes sense.
Heinlein is best known for the "Future History", but there are shared events throughout his other works as well. The actual "Future History" was revised for consistency, but works outside of it still include some of the shared history and shared events. "The Rolling Stones", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "The Red Planet", "Between Planets", "Podkayne of Mars", "The Rolling Stones", and "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" all contain references to what I've always regarded as the same Martians. "Double Star" might, too. But there are inconsistencies between the Martians in some of these stories. "Moon" is probably a Future History story, and maybe so is "The Red Planet". "The Rolling Stones" is probably not. "Stranger" is certainly not, but it's set in what the Future History calls "the Crazy Years". "Double Star" is not part of the Future History. "Podkayne of Mars" is very close to "Between Planets". Either could be regarded as a Future History story, or not a Future History story. "Stranger" and "Red Planet" refer to neophyte Martians. Both have Martians who cause people and objects to disappear, and also have "sharing water" ceremonies. The relationship seems very clear to me. I think "Red Planet" was written in 1952. Heinlein claimed to have plotted "Stranger" around that time, then packed his notes away and waited a decade to finish writing it because he didn't think anyone would buy it in 1952. So that timing could be regarded as more evidence. But when it all comes out, Heinlein was a commercial writer. He wrote what sold, and wasn't always hobbled by consistency. Even his works intended as part of the Future History don't always jibe. Why should they? Some of his works outside of it are clearly related, but also quite clearly not part of it.
Well, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and The Rolling Stones share a character, so they are definitely in the same universe; I don't remember anything which made me think they were in the Future History. I think the Martians in Between Planets are decidedly different from those in Red Planet; I can't remember what they were like in Podkayne of Mars.
The Martians never appear in "Podkayne of Mars" but they were described as a tired old race, much like they were in "The Rolling Stones" and "Between Planets", and for that matter, "Double Star". I think they were the same Martians but viewed from different perspectives in "Red Planet" and "Stranger in a Strange Land". I think it's arguable whether "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is part of the Future History. It's not inconsistent with it, or not very much so. The Moon was never mentioned as a penal colony anywhere else in the Future History as far as I can remember. It probably would have been in such short stories as "The Menace From Earth" and maybe "It's Great To Be Back". Harriman's Luna City isn't the predecessor for Luna City from "Moon/Harsh Mistress". But then, the moon in "Moon/Harsh" doesn't seem like the moon in "The Rolling Stones", and *they* share a common character. The underground tunnels of "Moon" are very much the same as those in the Future History. Events from a number of stories which are undeniable Future History stories never had any effect on other stories in the series (the anti- gravity developed in "We Also Walk Dogs", for one example). There are other inconsistencies in the Future History. That's why I find it hard to exclude such stories as "Moon/Harsh" from it on the basis of a few inconsistencies.
"_I Will Fear No Evil_ ... just went on and on and on, and nothing happened." Try _Time Enough for Love_. It goes on even longer, but some interesting things happen. This is one really long, bad book with not one but several pretty good, short books trying to get out.
I've read most everything else by Heinlein, and am saving Time Enough for Love for some time when I need a reward. I should say, I think I've read everything else except To Sail Beyond the Sunset, The Cat Who Walked Through Walls, and Grumbles from the Grave. I did read The Number of the Beast, which was such a big waste of time (except for the last chapter), that it turned me off of reading most of those later ones.
Since this seems to be the Heinlein item.. Slashdot recently reported that an unpublished Heinlein manuscript from early in his career had been found and was going to be published (later this year, I think..) Anyone know more about this?
Sounds very interesting. I wonder if it's a forgery?
That thought had crossed my mind as well..
From http://www.calpundit.com/archives/002083.html: "For Us, the Living" was written by Heinlein about 1938-9, before he wrote his first sf short, "Lifeline." The novel, "For Us, the Living," was deemed unpublishable, mainly for the racy content. So racy is/was the content that in the 1930s the book could not even have been legally shipped through the US mail! For this reason, after a few publisher rejections, the novel was tabled by Heinlein, but the content was mined for his later stories and novels. A fellow named Nehemiah Scudder even appears in "For Us, the Living." It's important to point out that according to those favored few who have thus far read this long lost Heinlein novel, it did not go unpublished because it was bad--they say it's quite good, though clearly a first novel by the author (it has a two and a half page footnote!). It was unpublished because the mores and culture of the time would not allow it.
I have been a devoted Heinlein fan for most of my reading life. I still like re-reading a Heinlein novel when I want something familiar and comfortable, but not most of his later books. After "Time Enough For Love", which was published in 1973, I think, he wrote one other good novel. That was "Friday". I'd say "Job: A Comedy of Justice" was readable in parts; "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" and "The Number of the Beast" were bad and equal to one another, and "I Will Fear No Evil" and "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" were truly abysmal. I've read some of the re-releases of his "unedited" works. "Stranger in a Strange Land", in particular, is a dazzling example of just how much an editor can do for a good novel. The "unedited" version is okay but rambles. The original released version is a spectacular science fiction novel. Mark, "Time Enough For Love" is not one of Heinlein's best works. I pretty much agree with dbratman; resp:43.
If you're looking for a good forgery of Heinlein, skip Spider Robinson and John Varley, who were often compared to Heinlein in their day. Get a copy of Alexei Panshin's "Rite of Passage". It is unquestionably the best non-Heinlein Heinlein book out there. Panshin was a literary critic, I guess, who wrote a biting criticism of Heinlein called "Heinlein in Dimension". He then apparently took everything he criticized about Heinlein's juvenile novels, and wrote what he thought Heinlein should have written. He made it work really, really well. It's a terrific book.
Hmm.... Heinlein claimed that he wrote his first short story in response to an advertisement of a contest. He doesn't _quite_ indicate it was the first thing he had ever written; he says, "I could do better than that." Still, the title is very close to an Ayn Rand novel. Interestingly, that novel seems to have been published in 1959 (I'd thought it was about twenty years earlier than that). Does Virginia claim this is one Robert's works?
I love "Rite of Passage". I recommend it to all the mothers of teenage girls I know, because it's one of the best young-adult emulations I've ever seen.
Slightly off topic, but for young-adult emulation, Peter Beagle's _Tamsin_ blew my socks off. It was hard to believe that it was a middle-aged man writing it; it sounded and felt disturbingly like a teenage girl.
And to flip the sexes, my candidate for the best depiction of a teenage boy written by a middle-aged woman is "Very Far Away from Anywhere Else" by Ursula K. Le Guin, which is not fantasy or SF at all.
Well, the fourth of Heinlein's predictions has proved sadly, sadly wrong, hasn't it? Pre-emptive wars are now part of the aggressive US foreign policy.
indeed.
You have several choices: