24 new of 50 responses total.
resp:22 - are the novels set after "Return of the Jedi" part of a consistent storyline? If so, what happens to Luke? Does he indeed fall into the Dark Side?
Actually, yes they are. If I remember correctly, He does not, he actually finds more Jedi, trains, and starts a Jedi school. Han and Leah have twins, names both start with J and I don't remember them at this time, a boy and a girl, and some relative of Chewy is ALSO in the Jedi school. And yeah, the Emperor comes back in another cloned body, there were BIG debates about if he could do that, but apparently he could.
Well if the emporer could, what about Anakin, Kenobi, Yoda, etc.?
Probably could, but he may be happy to be Kenobi the freindly ghost.
The Emperor comes back? After that gory finish? Plastic bouncing clowns, like I said. Surely, if this is possible, then Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, master of the Dark Side of the Force, should have known how pointless his disposal of the Emperor would be before he performed it. But then, I don't buy half the stuff in "Phantom Menace" either.
Well, the Emperor apparantly doesn't bounce back any too easily. He's out of commision for a long time. Even if Vader knew this was possible (not obvious that he would), he might consider buying Lucas a couple decades to mature before the Emperor could have another whack at him a fair deal. I don't think Vader was a master of the Dark Side of the Force. I think he was a slave of the Dark Side of the Force. Anakin, Kenobi, and Yoda don't have clone bodies. But it does seem clear that at least some Jedi are able to maintain some sort of spectral existance after death. Mostly it seems to be the more contemplative types who do so. Kenobi and Yoda both die voluntarily with their bodies vanishing after death. Anakin makes a spectral appearance, but I'm guessing he needed help from Kenobi and Yoda to do that. "If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can imagine," or something like that says Kenobi before he lets Vader kill him. There is no evidence in the movie that his power extends to more than giving Luke posthumorous advice, but presumably there is more to it. Yoda and Kenobi had each been sitting around alone for a few decades doing nothing while the Empire takes over the universe. Presumably they weren't really doing nothing, but were in some way preparing to go into ghost mode and do some really impressive stuff. All the other Jedi, good and bad, leave corpses. Hard to tell if the Emperor did. Apparantly not.
If I understand correctly, there is something in the way they're bound to the force, the midiclorian count, and the total power of the jedi if they dissapear after they die. They're tied into the force so tight that their body ends up being absorbed by the force, hence the astral projections. Vader woudln't have known about the clones, because being the only one of the Sith to survive the original parting of the "good" jedi and the "bad" jedi, the Emperor decided that the less the subordinant knows, the less likly they are to rebel against you. For those who don't know the parting, here it goes: One Jedi found the power of the darkside and when he was told that he couldn't use the dark powers by the jedi council, he wanted to know why, if there is balance in everything, then there should be balance in themselves as well. They forbid it, and he ended up leacing to practice the dark arts, and many jedi followed him. They learned the dark force powers, and the time came when he was old and had about 50 followers and he died. Well, all of the apprentices began fighting over who was to rule. All but one. The Sith ended up killing each other, all but the one, and the "good" jedi thought that it was over. Evil kills itself. But the one had watched and learned and he knew what the error was. Never show your pupil everything, and never have more than one. That way YOU are in control, and they're dispensible. So, this one, eventually became Palpitane and the Emperor, and he trained Maul, and then Vader, and some in the middle, but that's that point of the Sith. The cloning is something that he had a LOT of time to come up with. And it takes decades to get "into" the other body. It's not something that happens instantaneously. The only reason, to backtrack, that we saw the projections of Anakin, kenobi, and Yoda, is because they're the only ones that had a connection to Luke. But others do fade into the force.
I also got the impression that at the end of Return of the Jedi that Anakin, Kenobi and Yoda where ready for the next place in the force after watching over Luke (and Leia). Something they could not do for a long time.
resp:32 - Vader can be a master and a slave of the Dark Side at the same time. "Master: a person very skilled in some work, profession, science, etc."
In other words, he's a middle manager. ;)
35: There is one Master, one Apprentice. Vader was not the master.
Jeez Louise. I said "master" with a small m, not with a large M. All I meant was that Vader is knowledgable about the Force. Good grief. This is the kind of obnoxious hairsplitting that gives science-fiction fans a bad name. In any case, he said to Obi-Wan, "Now I am the Master." Maybe he was mistaken.
he only meant that because Obi-Wan was his master in the good side of the force, he trained him, and in some thoughts, the only way to truly become a master is the death of the one who taught you, otherwise you are forever a student to them.
Just watched Empire Strikes Back last night. Now recall from the Episode I novel and movie that the syth fought among each other, killed each other off, so that "in the end" there were only 2 syth lords existing at once, a master and an aprentice. But in ESB (episode 5) Darth Vader and the Emporer are talking about turning Luke to the dark side, so that he could become a powerful ally. Based on past history, that couldn't work. So the Emporer should just have had Vader kill Luke to end the threat, since there were already the 2 syth in place - the Emporer as master, and Vader as apprentice. I could see Vader secretly plotting - as he proposed to Luke - to have Luke join him to overthrow the Emporer, thus yielding Vader as master and Luke as apprentice syth. But I can't see the Emporer actively supporting trying to turn Luke to the dark side. I can only chalk this up to ESB coming out 20+ years before Phantom Menace, where all this syth stuff got worked out. :-)
But you're forgetting Jedi, and how while the emperor wanted Luke to give in to his dark side, he wanted him to either kill Vader OR kill the emperor himself. He can clone himself again after a time. Luke was Vader's only weakness, and by turning him to the darkside there was nothing that could redeem Anakin/Vader's good side.
Also if Luke had turned and managed to kill Vader they would have been back to 2, master and aprentice. If you haven't seen it yet find the Star Wars fan-film Duality for an interesting look at Sith apprentice training techniques.
The Saga Begins (Al Yankovic) To the tune of "American Pie" From the CD "Running with Scissors" A long, long time ago In a galaxy far away Naboo was under an attack And I thought me and Qui-Gon Jinn Could talk the Federation into Maybe cutting them a little slack But their response, it didn't thrill us They locked the doors and tried to kill us We escaped from that gas Then met jar Jar and Boss Nass We took a bongo from the scene And we went to Theed to see the queen We all wound up on Tatooine That's where we found this boy... Oh my my, this here Anakin guy May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye Saying "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" Did you know this junkyard slave Isn't even old enough to shave But he can use the Force, they say Ahh, do yo usee him hitting on the queen Though he's just nine and she's fourteen Yeah, he's probably gonna marry her someday Well, I know he built C-PO And I've heard how fast his pod can go And we were broke, it's true So we made a wager or two He was a prepubescent flyin' ace And the moment Jabba started off that race Well, I knew who would win first place Oh yes, it was our boy We started singin'... My my, this here Anakin guy May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye Saying "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" Now we finally got to Coruscant The Jedi Council we knew would want To see how good the boy could be So we took him there and we told the tale How his midi-chlorians were off the scale And he might fill that prophecy Oh, the council was impresed, of course Could he bring balance to the Force? They interviewed the kid Oh, training they forbid Because Yoda sensed in him much fear And Qui-Gon said "Now listen here Just stick it in your pointy ear I still will teach this boy" He was singin'... My my, this here Anakin guy May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye Saying "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" We caught a ride back to Naboo 'Cause Queen Amidala wanted to I frankly would've liked to stay We all fought in that epic war And it wasn't long at all before Little Hotshot flew his plane and saved the day And in the end some Gungans died Some ships blew up and some pilots fried A lot of folks were croakin' The battle droids were broken And the Jedi I admire most Met up with Darth Maul and now he's toast Well, I'm still here and he's a ghost I guess I'll train this boy And I was singin'... My my, this here Anakin guy May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye Saying "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" We were singin'... My my, this here Anakin guy May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye Saying "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi" "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
I was impressed by how accurately Weird Al told the story of "The Phantom Menace", and how much he covered in a song only a few minutes long. He does a pretty nice job, I think.
A few posts back I mentioned the fan film Duality. Once you watch that watch Two-Ness. They are both available on www.theforce.net
The superior pleasure of listening to this song over actually watching the movie is immeasurable.
Now, that's going a bit too far. It's a nice song, but not at all a bad movie.
Okay, "Weird Al" would get a passing grade in his Filking 101 class. He told the story in the song. That's it. Frankly, I had a hard time figureing out who the point of view singer is; Ben does not know of Anakin's future at this point. Only us fen and George Lucas know that.
I may be a seriously geeky SF fan, but even I'm not worried that the singer of the song (clearly young Kenobi) is referring to things that won't happen until later movies. It's just a funny song, not a dramatic novel...
resp:47 - not a bad movie? Indeed not: that's far too mild. It's one of the two or three very worst films I've ever watched all the way through, ghod knows why I bothered.
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