Grex Oldcoop Conference

Item 67: The IRS has forgotten about Grex

Entered by jp2 on Mon Jan 5 17:11:39 2004:

Forgive me, but I am about to do what I do best...raise hell.

I was looking for 1040 forms on the IRS site when I came across a search
function for public charities and non-profits.  This can be found here:

  http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/charities/page/0,,id=15053,00.html

Given that, I did the obvious.  I searched for Arbornet and Cyberspace
Communications.  Arbornet came up fine.  But several searches for "Cyberspace
Communications" and variants yielded no matches.  Unlike the Arbornet
dissolution this appears to the a mistake by the IRS.  However, as the
paranoid type, I usually expext this means something is very wrong.  So it
may be wise to give the IRS a ring on the matter, when convenient.
52 responses total.
#1 of 52 by other on Mon Jan 5 19:14:00 2004:

What possible problems could arise from the IRS having neglected to 
list us, so long as we have documentation of our status?

#2 of 52 by jp2 on Mon Jan 5 19:19:55 2004:

This response has been erased.


#3 of 52 by other on Mon Jan 5 19:32:15 2004:

That is not sufficient justification in my opinion for us to seek to 
correct the IRS in its performance of a function which appears to be 
in no way affecting us.

#4 of 52 by jp2 on Mon Jan 5 20:00:17 2004:

This response has been erased.


#5 of 52 by gull on Mon Jan 5 20:25:26 2004:

I guess that's a good point.  The next symptom might be someone who
wrote off a contribution to Grex losing an IRS audit.

#6 of 52 by jp2 on Mon Jan 5 21:08:29 2004:

This response has been erased.


#7 of 52 by other on Mon Jan 5 21:11:36 2004:

#5.  Audits are not the first line of response to flagged returns.  
Usually there is a request for clarification if there is an issue on  
an otherwise reasonable return.  If such a request is issued, we 
have the documentation to support the claim of deductibility.

This is a non-issue.

#8 of 52 by albaugh on Mon Jan 5 22:31:07 2004:

I agree that this is a "what if?" scenario on steroids.  Also, I would be of
the mind to not call attention to oneself.

#9 of 52 by scg on Wed Jan 7 23:33:48 2004:

Grex called attention to itself by filing for 501(c)3 status, and put a lot
of work into getting it.  I don't know anything about the IRS site that Jamie
mentioned, but it seems to me that any suggestion not to follow up on this
would have to be a knee-jerk anti-Jamie response rather than a prudent course
of action.

Presumably, the reason for 501(c)3 status is to allow donors to give with
confidence that they can then take a tax deduction on the donation.  Allowing
that status to be called into question seems like a waste of the status.

#10 of 52 by other on Thu Jan 8 17:21:32 2004:

This response has been erased.


#11 of 52 by other on Thu Jan 8 17:23:33 2004:

it's reallyu more a reflection of distrust of the mechanisms of 
government, but you're probably right.  Sure, we could provide the 
documentation, but they should be able to verify it independently.

We DO show up in GuideStar, though:

http://www.guidestar.org/controller/searchResults.gs?action_gsReport=1&
npoId=90715

(though we should update the report and change the incorrect address)

#12 of 52 by jp2 on Thu Jan 8 18:16:15 2004:

This response has been erased.


#13 of 52 by aruba on Thu Jan 8 19:31:48 2004:

The IRS helpline for exampt organizations is very busy this week.  I'll try
again tomorrow, and otherwise wait until week after next.  (I'm booked solid
next week.)

#14 of 52 by other on Thu Jan 8 19:34:34 2004:

I updated the GuideStar information, but someone on the board will 
have to follow up.  I'll email the login and password to the board.

#15 of 52 by slynne on Thu Jan 8 21:18:58 2004:

Thanks.

#16 of 52 by jp2 on Wed Apr 14 14:11:28 2004:

This response has been erased.


#17 of 52 by tod on Wed Apr 14 16:54:40 2004:

Let's play "Name that Fraudulent 501c3"

http://www.irs.gov/app/cgi-bin/eosearch.cgi

Exempt Organization Search  
    
Organization Name: Cyberspace Entrepreneurs 
City: Honolulu, HI 
Code: None - A public charity with a 50% deductibility limitation. 
Organization Name: Cyberspace Snow and Avalanche Center 
City: Corvallis, OR 
Code: None - A public charity with a 50% deductibility limitation. 
Organization Name: Flying in Cyberspace 
City: Seattle, WA (Until December 2004) 
Code: None - A public charity with a 50% deductibility limitation. 
Organization Name: Golden Retrievers in Cyberspace 
City: Sunnyvale, CA 
Code: None - A public charity with a 50% deductibility limitation. 
Organization Name: Seniors in Cyberspace International Inc. 
City: Alexandria, VA 
Code: None - A public charity with a 50% deductibility limitation. 

Nothing found for Grex or Cyberspace Communications.  Not only should you
folks yank your blue speech ribbon but you should yank the 501(c)3 claims on 
http://www.grex.org/member.html
and change it to a 501(a) or else remove it completely.

#18 of 52 by ric on Wed Apr 14 17:51:36 2004:

Heh.  I thought M-Net had problems.

#19 of 52 by tod on Wed Apr 14 19:02:59 2004:

re #9
Was Grex ever more than a 501(a)?  Perhaps Grex has been confused all along.

#20 of 52 by jp2 on Thu Apr 15 00:22:30 2004:

This response has been erased.


#21 of 52 by tod on Thu Apr 15 00:46:37 2004:

Yea..like a 501c or 501d but not exclusively a charity or education as in (c)
nor a religious or apostolic organization as in (d)
In other words..just a non-profit without a 501(c)3 rating. IE You pay your
taxes if funds are not 501c or 501d earmarked.

#22 of 52 by jp2 on Thu Apr 15 02:00:09 2004:

This response has been erased.


#23 of 52 by mdw on Thu Apr 15 07:20:00 2004:

I don't know of anybody who would argue the IRS is a model of either
benevolence, efficiency, or even accuracy.  For what it's worth, if
        http://www.audubon.org/local/cn/98summer/tax.html
is accurate, grex most likely does not appear in publication 78 because
we failed to file form 990 or 990EZ, which in fact we're not required to
file because our annual receipts are below $25K.  I vaguely recall that
990/990EZ is something of a bear to fill out.  I doubt the IRS makes it
clear that 990/990EZ and publication 78 are connected in any obvious
fashion.  Judging by web page I cited here, this connection may also be
a new thing...

#24 of 52 by tod on Thu Apr 15 16:23:50 2004:

Arbornet doesn't file a 990 and to my knowledge hasn't though we've met with
an IRS agent in the past to show him our "base operations" *cough*

#25 of 52 by other on Thu Apr 15 16:45:43 2004:

As long as we have our letter from the IRS acknowledging our 501(c)3 
status, and we are able to provide a copy of it to donors, we have no 
reason to be concerned about this.

I wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea at all to scan it and place a 
link to it on our site...

#26 of 52 by tod on Thu Apr 15 16:58:10 2004:

Don't sweep it under the rug. The IRS's Publication 78, Cumulative List of
Organizations, is intended to assist you in learning if an organization is
eligible to receive tax-deductible charitable contributions.  In the rare
instance where you might be considered by a large donor they may overlook you
due to not seeing your listing.  Call the IRS (toll-free) at 1-877-829-5500
and ask if Cyberspace Communications ever received a 501(p) suspension, and
if not, ask why its not listed in Article 78.  
See how simple it is?

#27 of 52 by aruba on Thu Apr 15 18:31:26 2004:

In February I called the IRS to ask about our status.  They told me that
sometime since we were granted 501(c)3 status, we did not respond to a
mailing from the IRS, and that's why we were taken out of publication 78.
Almost surely this happened because they had an old address for us, so we
never received what they sent.

Our status wasn't removed, we were just listed as "inactive", or something
like that.  The IRS agents I spoke with were clear that donations to Grex
are still tax-deductible, and there are no worries that we'll lose our
status.  It's just a glitch.

They sent me a packet of forms, including a change of address form.  I
filled them out and sent them back in February.  They told me at the time
that they'd get back to us in 30 days, but they didn't.  After about 5
weeks we received a letter saying they were sorry it was taking so long,
and promised to get back to us again in another 60 days.  That's where we
stand now.  Since this is their busy season, I expect it might be a while.

Section 501(p) refers to organizations whose status has been suspended for
terrorist activities.  The list of organizations in that category is at
http://www.irs.gov/irb/2003-48_IRB/ar14.html.  Grex is not among them.

#28 of 52 by tod on Thu Apr 15 19:40:29 2004:

Not yet, anyways.

#29 of 52 by jp2 on Fri Apr 16 02:13:57 2004:

This response has been erased.


#30 of 52 by aruba on Sat Apr 17 05:38:13 2004:

We received a letter today from the IRS, confirming that our 501(c)3 status
is active, i.e., Cyberspace Communications is currently exempt under section
501(c)3.  I scanned the letter and put the contents in ~aruba/irs.txt .

#31 of 52 by mary on Sat Apr 17 11:44:54 2004:

Thanks, again, for all your work on this, Mark.

#32 of 52 by soup on Sat Apr 17 19:18:42 2004:

Thanks mary!

#33 of 52 by slynne on Sun Apr 18 13:20:38 2004:

Mark, you are awesome! Thanks.

#34 of 52 by jp2 on Sun Apr 18 19:41:40 2004:

This response has been erased.


#35 of 52 by soup on Sun Apr 18 21:47:28 2004:

Thanks slynne!

#36 of 52 by tod on Tue Apr 20 04:57:53 2004:

THanks soup!

#37 of 52 by realugly on Tue Apr 20 05:02:10 2004:

Thanks, soup!

#38 of 52 by soup on Thu Apr 22 02:56:57 2004:

Thanks tod!  Thanks realugly !

#39 of 52 by realugly on Thu Apr 22 05:09:25 2004:

You're welcome, soup!

#40 of 52 by gregb on Fri Apr 23 16:18:38 2004:

'Night, John-Boy!

#41 of 52 by tod on Fri Apr 23 18:14:04 2004:

Thaks Greg!

#42 of 52 by realugly on Fri Apr 23 19:16:22 2004:

Thanks, Greg!

#43 of 52 by soup on Fri Apr 23 22:21:49 2004:

Thanks tod!  Thanks realugly!

#44 of 52 by tod on Fri Apr 23 23:14:48 2004:

Thanks sop!

#45 of 52 by realugly on Fri Apr 23 23:21:03 2004:

Thanks, sop!

#46 of 52 by soup on Sat Apr 24 04:12:44 2004:

Thinks mop!

#47 of 52 by tsty on Sun May 30 20:35:19 2004:

re #30 .... aruba rulz! thank you, very mulch, no leaf of faith necessary now

#48 of 52 by soup on Mon May 31 02:16:49 2004:

thnkjss sss tsty lkjh !!

#49 of 52 by tsty on Thu Jul 1 07:06:47 2004:

wow .... an ignored pun? *what* has happened to grex?!

#50 of 52 by salad on Fri Jul 2 05:46:36 2004:

Geez

#51 of 52 by tsty on Tue Nov 29 05:10:32 2005:

well, for one thing, it has lost its sense of humour .... there was one.
  
  
  
  
  
once
  
  
  
  
  
  
a long time ago.

#52 of 52 by jesuit on Wed May 17 02:14:32 2006:

TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE

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