Grex Oldcoop Conference

Item 64: Cyberspace Communications finances for December 2003

Entered by aruba on Thu Jan 1 16:21:10 2004:

Here is the treasurer's report on Cyberspace Communications, Inc. finances 
through December 31st, 2003.

Beginning Balance     $4,041.40

Credits                 $651.00         Member contributions
                         $17.00         Miscellaneous donations
                        $140.00         Donation to pay for speakerphone
                          $1.68         Interest on our savings account
                   ------------
                        $809.68

Debits                   $80.41         Pumpkin Rent for January
                         $45.97         Electricity for December
                          $0.00         Phone Bill (see below)
                        $135.00         DSL December 15 through January 15
                         $10.22         Paypal fees (income = $270)
                         $22.83         Winter Personal Property Taxes
                        $140.00         Speakerphone (see below)
                   ------------
                        $434.43

Ending Balance        $4,416.65

Our current balance breaks down as follows:

$4,170.11               General Fund
  $163.99               Silly Hat Fund
   $60.00               Spare Parts Fund
   $22.55               Infrastructure Fund

The money is distributed like this:

$1,046.40   Checking account
$3,370.25   Savings account earning 0.65% interest annually

We had two new members (kd3hw and garrigan) and one returning member 
(fhoda) in December.  We are currently at 84 members, 81 of whom are 
paid through at least January 15th.  (The others expired recently and 
are in a grace period.)

Notes:

- It was a good month for Grex!

- This month's phone charges totalled $90.83.  But we received a 
refund for the $168 in installation charges we paid to SBC last month, 
which covered the bill and left us with a credit of $77.17.  So next 
month's bill will only be about $13.

- Because we have a board member who will be connecting to meetings 
by phone next year, mary bought us a speakerphone for $140.  We tried 
it out at the last meeting and it worked great.  After a little bit of 
discussion of whether we should return it and maybe try to find a 
cheaper one, mdw offered to donate $140 to pay for the phone just so 
we would all shut up and move on.  His generous offer was accepted. :)

- Grex pays personal property taxes to the City of Ann Arbor on the 
equipment it owns.  The payments are divided into winter and summer 
taxes, with the winter ones being about half the size of the summer 
ones.

Thanks to everyone who contributed in December:

arabella, dang, dpc, fhoda, garrigan, jep, kd3hw, mdw, mooncat, other, 
russ, siamiam, tod, wlevak, and two people of whose logins I am 
unsure.

If you or your institution would like to become a member of Grex, it 
only costs $6/month or $60/year.  Send money to:

Cyberspace Communications
P. O. Box 4432
Ann Arbor, MI 48106-4432

If you pay by cash or money order, please include a photocopy of some 
form of ID.  I can't add you to the rolls without ID.  (If you pay 
with a personal check that has your name pre-printed on it, we 
consider that a good enough ID.)  Type !support or see 
http://www.cyberspace.org/member.html for more info.
62 responses total.

#1 of 62 by naftee on Thu Jan 1 16:43:48 2004:

Great report, MMArk!


#2 of 62 by aruba on Thu Jan 1 18:02:58 2004:

Whoops, I realized I forgot something.  One $12 check which I deposited in
November bounced.  So there should be an additional $12 debit for the check
and a $5 penalty.  The person who bounced the check has promised to replace
it and to pay the fee.

So subtract $17 from our balance.  I've corrected the copy of the report in
~aruba/reports/0312.txt .


#3 of 62 by aruba on Thu Jan 1 19:20:23 2004:

OK, another thing I forgot.  (Normally I would roll these things into next
month, but since it's the end of the year, I'd like to get it right.)

We moved cyberspace.org from Verisign to Dotster, and paid Dotster $8.95 to
register it through 1/12/2006.  So make our end-of-year balance $4,390.70.


#4 of 62 by willcome on Thu Jan 1 20:39:18 2004:

Grex lost nearly a thousand dollars over 2003!


#5 of 62 by aruba on Thu Jan 1 21:36:00 2004:

See the next item.


#6 of 62 by naftee on Thu Jan 1 23:03:23 2004:

re 2 Isn't it the person that issues the bounced cheque supposed to pay the
penalty, and not the depositer?


#7 of 62 by aruba on Thu Jan 1 23:15:26 2004:

I think it' standard practice for both parties to get charged something.


#8 of 62 by keesan on Thu Jan 1 23:40:23 2004:

Does grex now have to pay personal property tax on the new phone?


#9 of 62 by aruba on Fri Jan 2 15:27:52 2004:

Yes, I'm afraid so.  It's not in the Pumpkin, though, so I'm not absolutely
positive.  I should read the fine print on the tax return.


#10 of 62 by keesan on Fri Jan 2 22:34:45 2004:

Perhaps Marcus could own the phone and lend it to grex once a month?


#11 of 62 by jep on Sat Jan 3 07:18:41 2004:

That would leave Grex short one Board member if there was a problem 
getting the phone to the meeting for any reason.  I think a Grex 
officer should keep the phone, and Grex should just pay the taxes.


#12 of 62 by remmers on Sat Jan 3 16:23:18 2004:

I don't see how Grex owning the phone solves anything.  If Grex owns
it and an officer keeps it, and the officer can't make it to a meeting
for some reason, you've got the same problem.


#13 of 62 by jp2 on Sat Jan 3 18:32:36 2004:

This response has been erased.



#14 of 62 by gull on Sun Jan 4 00:54:18 2004:

That might present problems for the local dialins. ;>


#15 of 62 by aruba on Wed Jan 7 04:27:58 2004:

Scott and I measured the current Grex and NextGrex are drawing, and it's
13.25 amps.  We have been paying for 5.5 amps for the past 2 and a half
years, so the electric bill will jump significantly next month.  Hopefully
before long we'll be on only one machine.

I guess we should say a big thanks to Jan and Valerie for footing the bill
for NextGrex's amps up to now.


#16 of 62 by keesan on Wed Jan 7 05:10:41 2004:

I thought that newer computers were supposed to use less electricity.


#17 of 62 by jep on Wed Jan 7 05:17:13 2004:

Yeah, if the new computer is drawing almost twice as much power as the 
Sun, that would be pretty surprising, wouldn't it?  


#18 of 62 by naftee on Wed Jan 7 13:31:58 2004:

It's just that much more powerful.


#19 of 62 by carson on Wed Jan 7 13:35:18 2004:

(thanks, Jan and Valerie, for footing the bill for NextGrex's amps up 
to now!)


#20 of 62 by davel on Wed Jan 7 14:11:08 2004:

(Thanks, Carson.  Mark said we should say it, but didn't say it ...)


#21 of 62 by aruba on Wed Jan 7 15:15:31 2004:

THanks, Jan and Valerie, for footing the bill for NextGrex's power up to
now!


#22 of 62 by gull on Wed Jan 7 18:37:07 2004:

I wonder why the power drain is so much larger for the new machine than
for the Sun?


#23 of 62 by gelinas on Wed Jan 7 18:38:35 2004:

I wonder if there is something else going on, like the old equipment
drawing more than we realised.


#24 of 62 by jp2 on Wed Jan 7 18:42:17 2004:

This response has been erased.



#25 of 62 by gull on Wed Jan 7 18:56:59 2004:

Re resp:23: I guess we'll find out when the old machine is disconnected.


#26 of 62 by naftee on Wed Jan 7 19:26:28 2004:

We should get nuclear fusion to power the Sun .


#27 of 62 by aruba on Wed Jan 7 19:52:35 2004:

Right, the old hardware hasn't been changed in a long time, but perhaps its
power needs have for some reason.  Dunno.  If we needed any more incentive
to get Grex onto the new machine, this is it.


#28 of 62 by scott on Wed Jan 7 20:37:53 2004:

We've got more disks running in current Grex. too.


#29 of 62 by aruba on Thu Jan 8 16:40:48 2004:

DTE Energy tells me our building is on the "D3" rate, which means the total
cost for electricity, including credits and taxes, is $.097451312/kWh. 
Using that figure I calculate our electric bill at $108.47 per month, which
is $62.50 more than it used to be.  Ouch.  I hope it doesn't stay at that
rate for long.


#30 of 62 by gull on Thu Jan 8 20:08:30 2004:

I assume the calculation is taking into account the computer power 
supply's power factor?  Modern computer supplies tend to be highly 
capacitive.


#31 of 62 by aruba on Thu Jan 8 20:22:27 2004:

I have no idea about power factors.


#32 of 62 by gull on Thu Jan 8 21:08:55 2004:

It's a complicated topic, but in a nutshell if a load isn't purely 
resistive, it can be using far less power than simply multiplying the 
current by the voltage would indicate.  (The extreme example would be a 
purely capacitive or purely inductive load, which would draw current but 
use no power.)  If that's how the calculation was done, we're probably 
overpaying by quite a bit.  Didn't Grex used to own a watt-hour meter, 
like is usually installed on the side of a house, for measuring its 
power use?  That would be the most accurate way to do it.


#33 of 62 by scott on Thu Jan 8 21:11:33 2004:

Never did get a usable number out of that watt-hour meter.

The current measurement was taken with an analog clamp-on inductive ammeter.


#34 of 62 by other on Thu Jan 8 21:19:12 2004:

Did you take an average over time, or a momentary reading?


#35 of 62 by scott on Thu Jan 8 21:29:23 2004:

A momentary reading.  I've never seen Grex's power use fluctuate
significantly, other than the occasional use of a monitor.


#36 of 62 by other on Thu Jan 8 21:31:48 2004:

I'm wondering if the technology of Next grex's power supply might be newer
enough to make that difference.  Worth looking into?


#37 of 62 by gull on Thu Jan 8 21:46:09 2004:

I would almost guarantee that we're overpaying.  Computer power supplies 
are very capacitive.  Unfortunately, without a wattmeter, it's hard to 
say by how much we're overpaying.

What was the problem with the watt-hour meter?


#38 of 62 by aruba on Thu Jan 8 21:46:56 2004:

How would one look into it?


#39 of 62 by gull on Thu Jan 8 22:29:58 2004:

Hmm...according to this page, some PC power supplies now have power 
factor correction built in, so I could be wrong:
http://www.dansdata.com/gz028.htm
I'm not sure how you'd find out what the power factor of NextGrex's 
power supply is, though the power supply manufacturer might know.  I 
recommend looking at the above URL, because it explains the concept of 
power factor far better than I did.


#40 of 62 by jmsaul on Thu Jan 8 23:54:35 2004:

Does Grex have a separate meter?


#41 of 62 by aruba on Fri Jan 9 00:41:21 2004:

Grex is not metered separately from the rest of the building by the electric
company.  We do happen to own an electric meter, though, donated by Jim and
Sindi.  However, it doesn't work.  (This is like bad news-good news).


#42 of 62 by gelinas on Fri Jan 9 01:11:54 2004:

(Nonetheless, all of our equipment is plugged into it.)


#43 of 62 by bhoward on Fri Jan 9 01:36:44 2004:

So how is grex' electrical bill determined and split out from the other
residents of the building if J&S' meter doesn't work?


#44 of 62 by gelinas on Fri Jan 9 02:09:32 2004:

Every now and again, Scott et al try to measure how much electricity we are
drawing, we do some arithmetic, and that's what we send the landlord, until
we do some more measuring.  


#45 of 62 by jmsaul on Fri Jan 9 03:09:11 2004:

Re #41:  Why would Jim and Sindi need a -- wait.  They don't, which is why
         they donated it.  I get it.

I know gas prices are way up, but electricity shouldn't have moved all that
much.  And that bill is large.


#46 of 62 by aruba on Fri Jan 9 03:25:23 2004:

The electricity rate hasn't changed much at all - in fact it's decreased a
little.  But our usage jumped from 5.5 amps (last measured in 2001) to 13.25
amps.  It's possible it changed sometime inbetween, but I'm pretty sure our
equipment was the same right up to when NextGrex moved there at the end of
December.


#47 of 62 by gelinas on Fri Jan 9 03:25:59 2004:

(Joe, go back to response #15 and start forward; I think the numbers might
make more sense then.)


#48 of 62 by aruba on Fri Jan 9 03:32:37 2004:

BTW if anyone else has an inductive ammeter and would volunteer to check
Scott's reading, that would be great.


#49 of 62 by janc on Fri Jan 9 05:10:07 2004:

Valerie and I had been wondering why our power bill were so much higher
lately.  Maybe it was NextGrex.


#50 of 62 by jep on Fri Jan 9 05:22:37 2004:

How much would it cost to purchase the equipment needed for Grex to 
accurately gauge it's power usage?


#51 of 62 by scott on Fri Jan 9 12:55:40 2004:

These days the downtown library has a couple power meters which can be checked
out for a few days, I think for free.


#52 of 62 by keesan on Fri Jan 9 15:07:18 2004:

What is our meter not doing correctly?  I think we have it because Detroit
Edison was getting rid of it for some reason.  I can ask Jim.  Or maybe it
came from the Reuse Center.


#53 of 62 by gull on Fri Jan 9 18:22:18 2004:

What you want is an AC wattmeter, not an ammeter.  The current the 
computer is drawing doesn't tell you how much power it's using unless 
you know the power factor.  I think wattmeters are fairly expensive, 
normally -- at least $200.  It'd be nice if someone had one Grex could 
borrow.

What the power company uses on your house is a watt-hour meter.  It 
measures power used over time, which if you cancel out the units works 
out to a measurement of total energy used.


#54 of 62 by jp2 on Fri Jan 9 18:27:12 2004:

This response has been erased.



#55 of 62 by willcome on Fri Jan 9 19:39:25 2004:

AHAHA< YEAH< DEWY DECIMAL SYSTEM


#56 of 62 by gelinas on Sat Jan 10 01:17:59 2004:

There were no power meters at the library today.  They don't have "hold"
system, so it's just a matter of being there when some are available.

I stopped by Madison Electric to see about getting a power-meter.  The going
price is $500.00 for a permanently mounted meter.  He did a back-of-the
envelope  calculation to show that the maximum cost for a single 15-amp
outlet is in the neighborhood of $30.00, at two cents per KWh, which he said
was about the highest DTE charged.  Did you slip the decimal point, Mark?

(A bit later, I'll find my residential bill, to see what rate I'm paying.)


#57 of 62 by gull on Sat Jan 10 02:19:13 2004:

(15A*120V*24hours*30days)/1000=1296 kWh
1296kWh*$0.02=$26 plus tax.  Makes sense to me.


#58 of 62 by gull on Sat Jan 10 02:22:33 2004:

Well, the math does.  I don't know where he got the idea that DTE 
charges a max of 2 cents per kWh, though.  I'm paying just over $0.08 
per kWh in my apartment.


#59 of 62 by aruba on Sat Jan 10 03:22:19 2004:

Yeah, the rate for our building is $.097451312 per kWh, if you include the
credit and 6% sales tax.  Dunno where he got $.02.


#60 of 62 by willcome on Sat Jan 10 08:36:46 2004:

Haha!  My power's at four Canadian cents per kilowatt hour!


#61 of 62 by jp2 on Sat Jan 10 15:49:34 2004:

This response has been erased.



#62 of 62 by jesuit on Wed May 17 02:14:31 2006:

TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE


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