Grex Oldcoop Conference

Item 59: Minutes of Grex Board Meeting 18 December 2003

Entered by other on Fri Dec 19 01:58:24 2003:

7:04 pm bhoward calls.
present: mary*, remmers, aruba*, other*, slynne, gelinas*, polygon, 
sgsk, flem*, bhoward (by phone)   
[* denotes current board member]

1. Opening gavel: 7:12pm EDT

2. $466 in, $499 out  - november.  
december so far: $470 in, $261 out [expected] (phone bill correction 
due to sbc screwup on centrex cancellation)
4 returning members, 2 new, 83 members, 82 current (paid up).
cafe press sent money.  woohoo.
sold a pc video board to someone in columbus, oh. for $10.
for more details, see treasurer's report online.

3. staff: gelinas: usual deletes, locks and a reap with 13000 user 
accounts recovered.
newuser moved to a/ partition instead of d/.
new user group "neighbor"
17000-18000 accounts remain current.
reap took about 14 hours, locking/cleanup is 2-3 hrs per week, but 
could be more.
        [doorbell - mdw arrives 7:23]

4.  will come back to it when STeve arrives [some 20min - 2hrs 
hence].

5. legal advice: other:  We've been offered a consultation by 
attorney Doug Mulkoff in Ann Arbor.

Discussion follows about the circumstances under which to actually 
make the first consultation.
Mary suggests that we should hold off until we have a specific 
concern, while mdw says we already 
have some, and flem says we should do it just to find out what to 
look out for.  
mdw:  we need to do our homework so we can know as much as possible 
going in.
other: the purpose of the first consultation is mutual education.
aruba:  let's form a game plan before going in, in order to reduce 
attorney time requirements 
in getting up to speed on us.

follow-up committee: polygon, gelinas, aruba, with input from other 
interested parties.
will develop document to educate attorney about Grex.
polygon will call attorney Mulkoff to inform him of our process on 
this.

6. trademark.  $335 per service for ten-yr period (US).  cannot use 
circle-r until registration complete, but circle-tm, and circle-sm 
can be used before then.  not only words, but the specific forms as 
well are covered.  renewal requires form but no fee (apparently).  
Next Step:  work up the application, and determine then whether to 
submit it and pay the fee.
There is not uniform belief in the necessity of this move among 
those present.
Grex is registered as a DBA.  
cyberspace.org domain is possibly our most valuable asset, and if 
trademarking is applicable and will protect us from loss of it, then 
it may be justified.

7. remote Bd mem access:  seems to be working.  speaking volume has 
to remain high enough to overcome sensitivity issues with the 
technology.  discussion covers differences in technology and user 
experience quality, primarily between full- and half-duplex modes.  
Question:  should we buy the unit we're using now, or something less 
expensive, or something.  Question answered.  mdw is making a 
donation to cover the cost of the unit we're now using [$140].

8. new business: aruba thanks currently departing board members for 
4yrs of service.
flem's mental meanderings: we've had an awful lot of stuff going on 
on the baff list.
how should we respond appropriately.  Basically how we've been doing 
it.
[8:30 - STeve arrives]

4. next grex: openBSD 3.4 has been installed.  ssh available for 
existing accounts.
docs in cvs.  meetings will be scheduled and online work can also 
proceed.

5. staff report cont'd:  STeve locked a bunch and none squawked.  
Board should address /var/spool/mail disk, because its lifespan is 
running out.  Should we replace disk on current machine or spend the 
time on next grex?  Answer: hopefully next grex will up before mail 
disk dies.  We have the hardware to replace it available, but the 
cost is time.

9. Closing Gavel: 8:51pm EDT
57 responses total.
#1 of 57 by willcome on Fri Dec 19 02:04:43 2003:

Did you guys even get around to discussion the colour problem?!

#2 of 57 by other on Fri Dec 19 02:07:39 2003:

Correction: EDT times referenced above are actually EST.

#3 of 57 by gelinas on Fri Dec 19 03:15:01 2003:

Thank you for the complete and quick minutes, other. :)

#4 of 57 by aruba on Fri Dec 19 04:26:16 2003:

Heh.  Fastest minutes ever. :)

#5 of 57 by bhoward on Fri Dec 19 05:30:24 2003:

Thanks again to Mary for sorting out such a nice speakerphone.  I was
able to hear everyone quite clearly.

#6 of 57 by mary on Fri Dec 19 11:32:27 2003:

You are most welcome, Bruce.

I think Eric must have posted these minutes before leaving the meeting
location.  It's going to be hard to top that.

#7 of 57 by remmers on Fri Dec 19 11:36:40 2003:

He posted the minutes before getting up from his chair, seven minutes
after the closing gavel.  A new record.

#8 of 57 by davel on Fri Dec 19 13:33:47 2003:

Were any of the decisions which were made (keep the mail disk if possible,
for example) actually motions which were voted on?

The minutes aren't clear on this, & I'm just curious; but if they were, the
minutes should say so.  If they weren't, fine.

#9 of 57 by aruba on Fri Dec 19 13:36:20 2003:

No, we didn't vote on any motions.

#10 of 57 by carson on Fri Dec 19 13:36:58 2003:

(wow.  he even caught the EST/EDT error right away.  Eric's my new hero!)

#11 of 57 by micklpkl on Fri Dec 19 14:03:35 2003:

What is the "baff list?"

#12 of 57 by remmers on Fri Dec 19 14:14:35 2003:

Mailing list for board and staff.

#13 of 57 by jep on Fri Dec 19 14:18:26 2003:

It's a pretty good start.  For a beginner.

#14 of 57 by gelinas on Fri Dec 19 14:28:04 2003:

Here is a list of some subjects of recent messages to baff, with dates:

        Nov 25          Certifying candidates
        Dec  3          Supercharge your sexual battery
        Dec  2          SPAM  (Greetings from Grex Candidate
        Dec  2          Account of Board Candidate Terminated
        Dec  6          Participation in Coop
        Dec  8          Programs to display excerpts from newuser text
        Dec 12          Ethernet on Next Grex
        Dec 17          Thursday Board Meeting Location Change
        Dec 18          OpenBSD 3.4

Some topics generated more messages than others.

#15 of 57 by gull on Fri Dec 19 15:01:42 2003:

I think we should have a vote on whether to supercharge Grex's sexual
battery.

#16 of 57 by jp2 on Fri Dec 19 15:37:26 2003:

This response has been erased.


#17 of 57 by other on Fri Dec 19 15:59:03 2003:

Probably

#18 of 57 by janc on Sat Dec 20 01:46:01 2003:

Don't buy any new disks for old Grex.  There are about five 4 Gig disks
already connected to old Grex.  Turn one on, format it, and go.

#19 of 57 by mdw on Sat Dec 20 03:01:57 2003:

We have many examples of groups on grex.  For instance, we have trivial
groups, integral domains, and cyclic groups.  I don't know if we have
any baby monster groups.

#20 of 57 by jp2 on Sat Dec 20 14:42:32 2003:

This response has been erased.


#21 of 57 by gelinas on Sat Dec 20 14:47:05 2003:

Because SunOS 4.1.4 has a limit of 64K (+/-) uids.  When we get close to that
limit, we switch to a new group, which causes newuser to start at the bottom
and fill in.

Since OpenBSD doesn't have that limit, we expect to migrate to just one group
for everyone.

#22 of 57 by willcome on Sat Dec 20 16:26:44 2003:

Personally, I think Grex should maintain it's quirky tradition even when it
doesn't have to.  It'll add character to the system.

#23 of 57 by jp2 on Sat Dec 20 22:37:31 2003:

This response has been erased.


#24 of 57 by gelinas on Sat Dec 20 22:55:37 2003:

Why "bizarre"?

I don't know; I don't even know if thought has been given to the matter.

#25 of 57 by willcome on Sun Dec 21 01:22:40 2003:

Re. 22:  its.

#26 of 57 by remmers on Sun Dec 21 13:06:18 2003:

What's bizarre is that a service running on such old hardware and
software gets so many users.

What's the standard group name - "guest"?  Seems contrary to the concept
that we like people to move in and stick around forever.  Maybe "resident".

#27 of 57 by bhoward on Sun Dec 21 14:34:37 2003:

What do you think about using "citizen" which communicates the sense
commitment without implying physical locality?

#28 of 57 by remmers on Sun Dec 21 15:03:15 2003:

Current names are folks, beings, humans, populus, entities,
units, sapients, and citizens.  So there's precedent for
"citizen" and it does convey an appropriate idea, but it'd
be fun to come up with something new.

How about "grexers"?

#29 of 57 by janc on Sun Dec 21 18:02:57 2003:

Because of the uid limit, most Grex uid's have been used by many different
accounts over the years.  However, the combination of group-id-number and
user-id-number uniquely identifies every user in the history of Grex.  

That's cool but I can't think of any use for it.  I can't say I care at
all what happens to this when we move over.  Might be best just to move
everyone to one group and never have to think about it again.

#30 of 57 by jp2 on Sun Dec 21 19:27:15 2003:

This response has been erased.


#31 of 57 by mary on Sun Dec 21 19:51:54 2003:

Bipeds?

#32 of 57 by cross on Sun Dec 21 20:02:50 2003:

What about the group name that had been already chosen and put into
the renumber script?

#33 of 57 by naftee on Sun Dec 21 22:08:43 2003:

re 20 "neighbours"

#34 of 57 by keesan on Sun Dec 21 22:54:08 2003:

Plebs - the common people of ancient Rome;  the general populace.

#35 of 57 by mary on Mon Dec 22 00:44:58 2003:

Mortals.  You can't get much more
inclusive than that.

#36 of 57 by remmers on Mon Dec 22 01:13:47 2003:

Yes, but through one's writing (on a bbs or elsewhere) one
achieves a measure of immortality.

#37 of 57 by mdw on Mon Dec 22 03:29:45 2003:

Which would better fit "aspirants".

#38 of 57 by aruba on Mon Dec 22 04:14:47 2003:

Re #31: I can think of at least two Grexers who aren't bipeds...

How about "rabble".

#39 of 57 by keesan on Mon Dec 22 04:28:42 2003:

You'uns.

#40 of 57 by jp2 on Mon Dec 22 04:54:20 2003:

This response has been erased.


#41 of 57 by gull on Mon Dec 22 16:10:15 2003:

I'd push for "users", because of the principle of least surprise.

#42 of 57 by remmers on Mon Dec 22 17:13:44 2003:

But Grex is *supposed* to be surprising!

#43 of 57 by bhoward on Tue Dec 23 01:38:30 2003:

Rereading all this, I've decided that personally, I prefer "folks" to
"citizens".

#44 of 57 by gelinas on Tue Dec 23 02:19:55 2003:

Re 32:  I couldn't find that name mentioned anywhere.  I finally tracked
it down in garage:

        gid   50 (people)     ->  * gid 200 (people)

#45 of 57 by jep on Tue Dec 23 04:10:24 2003:

Wouldn't the most inclusive group name be "us"?

I am trying to think of reasons why it matters what the group name is, 
and failing.

#46 of 57 by jp2 on Tue Dec 23 04:11:03 2003:

This response has been erased.


#47 of 57 by gelinas on Tue Dec 23 04:16:37 2003:

Everything matters to _someone_, jep. :)

#48 of 57 by naftee on Tue Dec 23 08:29:01 2003:

I nominate "myself"

#49 of 57 by remmers on Tue Dec 23 14:32:03 2003:

Re #59: "Us" could be misinterpreted as "United States", decidedly
non-inclusive.

It doesn't matter why or whether it matters what the group name is.
Experience tells us that a large percentage of discussion on any
public bbs is about things that don't matter.

#50 of 57 by jep on Tue Dec 23 15:41:40 2003:

So you're saying that my point about the topic being irrelevant is 
irrelevant?  I can live with that.

How about "earthlings"?

#51 of 57 by flem on Tue Dec 23 16:56:53 2003:

I'd support "earthlings", because Murphy's law dictates that this will
eventually cause extraterrestrials to visit grex.  Which would be cool.

#52 of 57 by jp2 on Tue Dec 23 17:03:10 2003:

This response has been erased.


#53 of 57 by mynxcat on Tue Dec 23 18:57:57 2003:

hah!

#54 of 57 by mary on Sun Dec 28 02:19:47 2003:

A date has been set for the next board meeting.  It'll be
on Monday, January 19th, 7:00 p.m., at slynne's house.

#55 of 57 by naftee on Sun Dec 28 19:30:42 2003:

THAT SOUNDS MORE LIKE A PARTY , IF IT'S AT SLYNNE'S HOUSE< I HEARD SHE'S A
PARTY *&ANIMAL*

#56 of 57 by willcome on Sun Dec 28 21:30:29 2003:

I made a response that I didn't like and this is the memorial.

#57 of 57 by jesuit on Wed May 17 02:14:30 2006:

TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE

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