Is it time we contracted and paid for technical work Grex needs done? I know, radical stuff. We've not gone there before, ever, that I know of. We've always been quite proud of the fact we existed and thrived on the gift of volunteer time. But that's not working so well for us at the moment. Maybe it's time to carefully choose where we need some work done, find out what it would cost us, see if anyone qualified wants the job, and move on. Could we get three hours of work for $250? What could be accomplished with that time? Can we afford it? Can we afford not to? This idea is not in any way intended to slight our volunteer staff. Far from it. They have priorities and, rightfully so, Next Grex isn't up there with paying the bills and spending time with growing children. But maybe it's both practical and fair to invest some money into moving this project forward. Whatcha think?122 responses total.
This response has been erased.
This response has been erased.
Why would this mean being cornered with a vendor/contractor. Isnt setting up a system more work than maintaining it?
#1 isn't really fair. Dan had some ideas about how the transition should be organized, but he'd already outlined those ideas, they mostly involved other people doing the work, and Dan wouldn't have been available for a period of time in the near future anyway. I'll have to think about #0 a bit, but my first thought is that three hours wouldn't be enough to get much done and Grex couldn't afford what it would cost to get the whole job done at market rates.
Haha! Remmers's trying to defend his wife even when he knows she's in the wrong.
This response has been erased.
This response has been erased.
This response has been erased.
I believe at this point the operating system needs to be loaded, there are version issues, and every step of the setup is being documented. I wasn't thinking along the lines of hiring unknown (to Grex) techies, but rather paying one or some of our current staff for a few hours of work, to jump-start the project. I'm not even sure they'd have time to fit in paying work. I'm just otherwise so out of ideas on this one. Thanks for the offer, ryan. I have a feeling if you want staff to see your offer you'd be better off entering it in garage, where Next Grex work is being discussed.
This response has been erased.
This response has been erased.
I volunteer. I'm skilful and mature.
This response has been erased.
only sadly.
I've a standing offer open to help out on anything remaining to be completed on nextgrex. Unfortunately, the one thing I cannot help out with from afar is loading the basic OS and getting it onto the net.
(Which really seems to be the sticking point right now.)
I'm not in favor of paying a staffer (or anyone else) for contracting work for NextGrex. We're volunteer run and I can't see any reason why that should change. We were told a year ago that buying NextGrex was urgent, and then the treasurer was pushed to buy everything quickly because it was urgent to get everything into place. The urgency of the project failed as soon as the stuff was all bought. I am not going to conceal that I, for one, feel let down by the staff about it all. Maybe it really was urgent and Grex is being left dangling; maybe someone panicked and stampeded Grexers into sending money for no good reason. Maybe both. But there you go. We all placed our trust in some people, and they... well, they really didn't earn it. It does not mean they're bad people. They're excellent people, and we were once lucky to have them. Grex can't back out and get it's money back. No one can presently move the project forward. We can't stay where we're at. There's not enough will or outrage or responsibility (or something) to replace the staffers with someone who *will* do the job. So here we sit, until Grex dies and goes away, or someone does what they said a year ago they'd do, or someone else takes over the project.
If we hadn't bought the hardware, we'd be even further from migrating. The hardware purchased was advanced enough that we'll still get several years' use of it after we migrate, even if it is a year old by the time we migrate. I don't know that paying to get the project off the dime would help. I can see how it _could_ help, though: Someone who has to choose between paying the bills and working on grex could be influenced by being able to do both at once.
This response has been erased.
re 13 willcome considers the caps lock key as cheating and being unlucky.
I do not agree with John's harsh conclusion that staff has let us down or that they have violated the trust of grex users. That strikes me as wrong-headed and more than a little mean. I also think arguments that there is some sort of expiry date on the hardware we purchased are silly. Whatever the capacity of hardware we purchase, the grex community would expand to use that capacity. My guess is that the increase in capacity from the new hardware would simply unmask some other constraint like network capacity or the like. The more pressing issues in my view are those such as how to keep drawing people in the conferences and how to redistribute staff workload more evenly. I do not think we can afford to hire someone to do the work and from what I understand of the current situation, the issues limiting staff time for work on nextgrex are not the sort that would go away by incentivizing through some cash outlay. Even if they were, that is not how I'd like to see the relationship between staff and the larger community redefined. Right now staff are part of the community; throw in salaries and folks start talking about violated contracts and "violated trusts". What I would like to see is a confirmation of the specific requirements necessary to see nextgrex into production and then a plan from the board on how we are going to finish those off with existing staff resources. If we can't get there from here with the staff resources on hand, I would like the board to draw on volunteers from the larger grex community to see this project through.
I guess I pretty much agree with Bruce, but like Mary, I'm out of ideas for how to move forward.
But you have lots of ideas in moving backwards, don't you.
This response has been erased.
This response has been erased.
I agee with John in that if we had waited to buy the hardware we could have got it cheaper. The hardware may not be outdated by the time we get around to using it, but the prices may have dropped, so grex wouldn't have spent so much on it.
If we hadn't bought the hardware, we wouldn't have made as much progress as we have. If we didn't have the hardware, we'd have made NO progress toward the migration.
Would it be possible for someone to do the onsight work with the guidance of someone who is remote? I mean, I can put a cd in a drive just as well as anyone else.
The hardware is currently located in the home of janc, who apparently has everything *except* the time. :(
This response has been erased.
I'm sorry you've not heard the answer. I know it's been offered: Yes.
This response has been erased.
Re resp:24: I agree that things need to move forward. I think that the "the hardware will be obsolete!" argument is a red herring, though. No matter how long things sit, that hardware will still be less obsolete than what Grex is running on now, and that's all that matters. If we'd put off buying the hardware there wouldn't even be the *possibility* of moving forward. Re resp:32: You'd have to ask Marcus, I think, and I haven't seen him posting to coop recently. What are you afraid will happen? Who is likely to come along and try to enforce the license terms? If they haven't cared yet, why are they likely to care now?
This response has been erased.
This response has been erased.
I think gull's questions are pretty good ones.
My question in situations like this is always "who is getting hurt"? If the answer is "no one", I don't see what's immoral about it.
But the issue of Picospan licensing has little or no relevance to the topic of this item.
This response has been erased.
I think that's true if you assume "illegal" and "immoral" are synonyms. I personally don't.
This response has been erased.
Right, as far as we know, the OS hasn't been installed yet...
The hardware, which was supposed to be bought with OpenBSD in mind, isn't quite OpenBSD compatible. In particular, the Ethernet controller isn't very well supported. There are really two ways to proceed. Well, three: 0) Fix OpenBSD so the hardware is supported (not going to happen). 1) Buy other hardware that is supported. The SCSI controller had some problems, too, but is probably fine. The real issue is the ethernet; a $20 Netgear card could be plugged into the machine and the onboard ethernet ignored and the problem would be solved. 2) Switch to another operating system. I've always had my doubts that OpenBSD is the way to go for grex. The main argument in favor of it (that it's ``more secure'') is BS; grex would be better off on FreeBSD, which supports all the hardware it already has. Oh, screw it; I'll build out next grex over the next month if someone will take care of putting it on the network, and in the pumpkin. If Valerie and Jan don't have the time to work on it, then it should probably be relocated to a place where someone with more time on their hands can get to it.
Heck, a $12 RealTek card (you can get 'em at Sky-Tech on the corner of Ellsworth and Carpenter for that, retail boxed) would do fine. OpenBSD should support these cards with the "rl" driver. There *has* been some progress. For example, janc spent a good bit of time testing OpenBSD's software RAID feature. Ultimately the tests showed it hurt performance too much to make sense for Grex, but I don't think we should discount the work that went into it. I think FreeBSD can be just about as good as OpenBSD, security-wise, if it's configured intelligently and kept up to date. Most of the OpenBSD security improvements are eventually ported to FreeBSD anyway. Both are damn good operating systems.
Thanks for the offer cross :)
This response has been erased.
To correct a misimpression that seems to be forming: The OS was installed on NextGrex months ago, and quite a bit of work was done in terms of configuration and porting software. The work has been logged online, mostly in the Garage conference I think, some of it in Coop. What hasn't happened is *upgrading* the OS to the latest version of OpenBSD. There are good reasons for doing that, but it isn't something that would hold up everything else. Re #43: Wow Dan, that's quite an offer. Thanks.
This response has been erased.
Thanks, cross!
This response has been erased.
I agree I was harsh, but the fact is, this project has sat for 7 months now. I don't agree that anything was gained by buying the hardware a long time before it was to be used. I think if the money was sitting in the bank, or even still in Grexer's pockets, we'd be in the same place right now. I don't even agree nothing was lost by the way things have gone. I don't think I'm the only disappointed person on Grex. The treasurer talks of how our cash in the bank is dwindling... but look how well money, even for a vitally important project, is used when it's received. New hardware will improve things a *great* deal. At least I hope it will. It will if it's ever used to run Grex. I'll cheer when it's time. I often have in the past. But for now, I won't apologize for saying I feel let down by the staff.
re resp:34: That's a heroic offer. Thanks, Dan! I hope it's accepted.
John, TBH, NextGrex looks to me to be moving along at least as fast as previous upgrades have. It really feels to me like you're carping, not because you're saying that it should go faster, but because you keep saying it over & over & over. Volunteer time is always a bottleneck. Trying to run a system, including upgrades & maintenance, on the basis of consensus rather than in a top-down manager-to-managed structure adds to the problem. Frankly, if I were on staff & were one of those trying to move ahead on this, I'd be resenting the sheer time taken up reading the responses of a few individuals who apparently have endless time and nothing of importance (IMNAAHO) to say. Heck, I do resent it as it is, & I'm not even seeing most of their postings, I think. (No, you're not one of those I'm referring to; my first paragraph above isn't meant to say that I think you're in the twit category. If it sounds to you like that, email me & I'll try to be clearer.)
This response has been erased.
re resp:53: Sorry if you don't think I should speak up. But not sorry enough to shut up. If there are X people who think I shouldn't say what's on my mind, then there are X people who's opinion I don't care about. I think there are many who disagree with me, but I think there are some who agree, too -- however graceless they might think me for saying it as bluntly as I did. Look, I like Grex a whole lot. I have read the statements from the treasurer over the last couple of years, as Grex went from 100 supporters and a growing bank account to 80 supporters and a shrinking bank account. Why do you think that is? I have an idea that explains at least part of it. I get frustrated when I wait for the system to do the next thing; go to the next conference or finish entering an item or whatever. So must others. Those users who left aren't going to come back, and the next dozen who leave aren't coming back, and it won't be long before Grex is where M- Net is now. (If there are 10 supporting users on M-Net, I'm surprised.) Or where the old Arbornet was before that (there were 4 users of Arbornet when it merged with M-Net). I don't think the MextGrex hardware is depreciating as quickly as is Grex itself. I want NextGrex for myself. I want it because I think it's cool to think of Grex moving onto something a little less obsolete. It's new, different, and exciting. But there *is* a bigger picture as well.
This response has been erased.
Dan, that's a generous offer. Please run it by staff, soon.
Re resp:55: Cracking the whip over volunteer staff people and saying, "work harder, damn it!" generally isn't very effective, unless your goal is to drive away volunteers. Do you have any constructive suggestions, or just complaints?
Regarding #57; I assume all the staff who want to participate are reading this.
I suspect your assmption is faulty, Dan. Unfortunately, for all concerned.
re resp:58: Do you know how long we went between *mentions* of NextGrex in the coop conference? We went from July to October, when I brought up the subject again. And the mentions in June and July weren't substantive, as I recall them. Constructive? I don't have any attaboys, no. I think we should listen more to cross, if he'll come back to the staff at all. I think we need to go with stock Unix, not customized code only a couple of people can administer -- because those couple of people haven't been available for a while. I think Grex shouldn't be allowed to wither on the vine because of overdependence on people who aren't interested in it any more. Do *you* have *anything* to contribute? Or just "Shut up, jep"? re 59-60: I suspect it's a matter of definition of "want to participate".
I thought that there is on going stuff about NextGrex in the Garage cf, not here.
Oops. Through May, there was extensive discussion of everything happening with NextGrex here in coop. Then it abruptly stopped.
BOOM NextGreX
Did you boom NextGreX?
Re resp:61: I didn't ask for "attaboys". I asked for constructive comments, i.e. ones that include suggestions for how to move forward. "That damn volunteer staff is lazy" seems to be your only comment so far, and it's not constructive or helpful.
And John, as I said, my objection to it is that you keep saying it, over & over & over. I guess what David (gull) just said is relevant, though; if you were offering constructive suggestions or offering to help along with this it wouldn't sound so much like carping. (I offer as an example cross, who has complained quite a bit about the rate of progress from time to time, but who's been involved & (AFAICS) quite helpful.
Regarding #60; Fair enough, Joe; can you help me spread the word? The critical people to get hold of right now are Jan and Valerie, since the hardware is physically in their possession.
I'll see what I can do.
I guess I disagree with davel and gull in that I think there are valid reasons to complain. Maybe you fellows will come up with a schedule under which I may complain again with your permission? I inquired in October and was told "wait a month". I waited two months before complaining. I don't have the time or expertise needed to make NextGrex. That is why I never said I'd do it. Dan Cross has stated the project can be simplified to the point where any Unix system administrator could understand it, instead of only one person, by eliminating weird custom password code and suchlike. I endorse that concept. Grex will be a lot more secure with standard Unix software than it ever will when relying on one person. While I don't have the expertise to build NextGrex, I do have Unix knowledge and ability which could conceivably help. I was on the staff of M-Net for several years. I am the Unix root at work on some machines, though for maintenance purposes only. I'm the go-to guy in customer support for Unix information. I'm willing to help out Grex and/or NextGrex where I can. I won't be designing any software but there are times when I could log in and test things, or clean up after busier and more expert people, etc. I'm pretty good at documentation. I don't expect the staff to take me up on it, but if they do, I'll help out where I can. If it counts at all toward your definition of "helping", davel, I also contributed money to the new hardware project a year ago. I really don't regard myself as destructively jeering.
I'd like to explain, in a bit more detail, why I brought this up in the first place. Jobs for programmers are tight right now. Or so I've heard, right here on Grex, from programmers. I think it was Jan who said he's been forced to take work at a much reduced fee, to get the contract. That means he's working more hours to make the same income to meet his bills. Yuck. I don't think it's just Jan that's been caught in this squeeze. I think it's a lot of our volunteer staff. Then you throw in the usual family obligations that all of us have, some more than others, and before you know it, Grex projects are on the back burner. In the past our staff has been very generous with their time. I think they'll be generous again, when they're able. So maybe it is both practical and realistic to think of jump starting the project by paying for the next few hours of work. And that's all it would be, the next few hours. Just enough to get past this bottleneck. Then (cross fingers) maybe voluteers with more time could pickup the slack. But we'll have to see how that goes. But any progress right now would be an upper for the whole project. I hope it works that Dan can get things going before he leaves. But, if not, I'd like this to be considered.
I don't think it's very practical. It's a noble gesture, to be sure, but realistically grex isn't going to be able to afford much time from anyone. What I think is realistic, and necessary, is to get an operating system loaded onto the hardware we have that's *stable* and get the hardware into the pumpkin. After that, most of the work with getting nextgrex running is really just turning the crank.
I believe there are grexers willing and capable of helping finish off the configuration of nextgrex if we can simply get it on line and accessable via the net. I'm happy to help out, I believe others have made the same offer. If Dan can help with the first part, I think amongst the lot of us, we can sort out the rest.
This response has been erased.
I guess the job market isn't tight where jp2 is. ;>
This response has been erased.
Re 75> Would it have been worth the fie bucks?
This response has been erased.
(What he doesn't mention is that he was paying five dollars, not receiving.)
fie those dollars.
This response has been erased.
This response has been erased.
RE 80> I'm not sure I feel so good anymore.
The real sad thing in all of this is that NextGrex was originally supposed to come to our house for set up, with STeve and Marcus working on it and them guiding me through most of the work. This was going to help me out with my education in Computer Science, to have yet another person familiar with the set up, to see if I could handle it and therefore set me up as another staff member to do regular backups, etc. I even cleared space for it to be worked on. Then for some reason un-named person(s) felt that the approach that STeve and Marcus planned for getting it up and running was going to take too long and took it off on the other track. I was gung ho on doing this. I was looking forward to working with them and furthering my education. I want NextGrex as much as everyone else and would have been here, onsite so to speak, to goad STeve and Marcus into getting it done. Chances are we would have been up and running a while ago. STeve felt that after all the work he did to find the compents and reasonable prices for them and getting everything ordered, and then having it pulled away saying that the plan he and Marcus came up with was too conservative was a slap in the face. I had to do a lot of fast talking to stop him from pulling away from Grex completely. He has still been working on things, but is less willing to put family and work life on hold than he was before. And I really can't blame him for feeling that way. Grex has been a time sink for him ever since they started about the concept of Grex. It has taken a lot of his time away from his family. It has occasionally taken time away from work. We have fought about Grex coming first more times than I can count. He has been proud of being a part of Grex. Don't blame him or Marcus for being hold ups in getting NextGrex up and running.
This response has been erased.
Okay, this is gonna come out wrong I'm sure, but please be assured I don't mean anything negative; this is serious advice. If you're serious about furthering your education in the computer industry, one of the most important things to learn in order to maintain your sanity is how to distance yourself from your projects. It's easy for those of us who care about doing things right to become personally attached to our projects, and to take it personally when control is taken out of our hands. I've lost count of the number of times that a project I was looking forward to working on was handed to someone else, someone who I felt wouldn't do as good a job, because they had more available time to work on it than I did. It's hard, but sometimes it's the best thing for the project. Jep (I think it was him) once said something that has stuck with me: If the data on your computer is less important than the computer itself, then your computer is a toy, not a tool. Without belaboring the comparison too heavily, NextGrex can't be anyone's toy. It's a real project, with real constraints. One of those constraints is time. Exactly who does the work, in what space, and whether or not they learn anything from it -- well, I'm sorry, but those just aren't constraints for this project.
Glenda - I'm sorry that STeve's feelings were hurt. His weren't the only ones. I'm certain no one wanted that to happen. The board and staff chose a strategy which we thought had the best chance to get the system up quickly. It may have been a mistake - no one can say for sure. But I still think we did what was for the best. BTW, you can name me if you like.
HEYM EVERONE< IT"S ARUBA"S FAULT! HEY EVERYONE! LE"TS BLAE ARUA
I am sure it seems like I, for one, have been trying to blame someone, but that's really not where I am coming from. I don't care who works on NextGrex. I am disgruntled that it's not being done. We need to be able to have Grex, and Nextgrex, even if two people -- *any* two people -- are not available, interested, capable, well- disposed, or happy. The responses from glenda and aruba seem to show very clearly why. De-centralize Grex. It can be run well by other knowledgeable people, even if it's not done as brilliantly as if Marcus and STeve are involved. I don't think we need brilliance much, not right now. We need reliability.
I tend to agree with flem on this. Working in the IT industry, there are numerous times pet projects are taken away from you and givn to someone else. And Glenda, if Grex was already a time-sink for STeve, maybe it is a good thing that someone else got to work on it, instead of two of you working on it all of your free time.
This response has been erased.
Planning has begun for a weekend Next Grex Fun Fest, either later this month or early next. The goal is to get Next Grex as near to up as we can.
That's great, Joe. Please keep us informed.
I'm sorry, I didn't make myself completely clear. I meant that I find it ironic it was felt that STeve's and Marcus's approach to getting NextGrex up was too time consuming. It was felt that in doing so NextGrex would be up faster... If we had followed the path that they had planned, it would be up and running by now. As for it being educational for me. I was looking forward to it. I am not very disappointed. I will still get that education in putting up an OpenBSD box for myself, pretty much with the same equipment that NextGrex is using. It is just that if I had done it with NextGrex I would have been pushed to do it. Doing it for my own box will wait until I get around to-it. All I have at the moment is rectangular and triangular to-its :-) It would have been interesting and I was looking forward to helping Grex in that manner. Oh, well, so it goes. I had meant to point out that the time sink of Grex on STeve's part was more of a: If Grex needed his services, he would do his best to be there to provide them even if it meant other aspects of life had to go on hold for a bit. The big things did't/don't bother me. I love Grex and want what is best for it, if it takes my husband away at times I accept it. What bothers me is that STeve can become all-consumed by things. I.e. I am going up to bed, he says he will be along in a minute and finally comes up 2-4 hours later. When I ask why, it is because he found something or was doing some little thing that led to another on Grex. He didn't realize how long he spent doing "some little thing," he looses all track of time when doing something he cares about. This is one of the reasons I fell in love with him. It can, however, get aggravating at times. Especially when being awakened in the wee morning hours by a husband that should have already been asleep.
Glenda, you don't need physical access to the nextgrex hardware in order to work on it; if you're still interested, I'm sure arrangements can be made for you to access it remotely.
NextGreX.
I have only skimmed the above. Paying me would make little difference in the short term. I have a contract, I can't really take on another until this one is done. It might prevent me from having to take another contract immediately after this one comes along (assuming that one is offered to me), but only if you are paying a competitive rate, and frankly, Grex can't afford that. The work I've done so far this morning would have cost Grex most of it's income for the month. It's also unnecessary. I want to work on Grex. Given some decent blocks of free time, I will. I'm very disappointed with the time it has taken for things to get done. The system got built fast. The OS was installed, and I installed my nearly all of my software quickly too. Then we spent months waiting around for others to do anything. I was supposed to install OpenBSD 3.4 about a month ago. It took me longer than I expected to get around to it, but it's done now. I don't honestly believe that anyone was waiting for me to install OpenBSD 3.4. I'm pretty pleased that I was able to install OpenBSD and reinstall all the software that I'd previously installed and all the software that Dan Gryniewicz had installed in just two working days. Everything is documented and most of the installation steps are scripted. This pass through things required various fixes to the install scripts, and I did much improvement of hte documentation, but it went pretty well all in all. My goal is to eventually get to the point where a new Grex can be built from a bare machine, a net connection and the cvs archive by one person in 24 hours. Some of the work that was done on the old new Grex was not documented. This includes the 'pf' config, the quotas, and the login mods to allow Grex style passwords to be used. My next task is to try to figure out what was done and get documented and back up. I guess I also need to talk to Marcus. I'm not sure what to say to Glenda's comments. NextGrex should have been up by now, certainly. If there was ever a plan to house NextGrex at STeve's house, I never heard about it. My thinking was that once it was on the net, it didn't much matter where it was, as anyone anywhere could connect to it. The advantage of my house is that there are two Grex staffers living and working here, so there is someone available to do reboots nearly 24x7x365. I guess the handling of all that resulted in STeve and Glenda being a bit put out. I'm sorry about that. I'd certainly do anything in my power to make it possible for them to contribute to this effort.
I kept a copy of the pf information on my own machine, just in case I never got it properly committed in cvs. I'll transfer it back to the new grex machine later today.
The login.conf stuff was done by me, and is simple. I'll write up documentation for it.
Which'll probably be skimmed.
Dan: I looked in your directory, found the login.conf stuff and installed it and documented it. You're right it was simple. (And, I think, the correct solution).
I've now moved the pf.conf back on to the new grex machine, worked it over some more to get it closer to what we need, and enabled it. I've also moved over a copy of the document I wrote way back when. All of this has now been committed to CVS.
Great. Thanks.
Thanks Joe!!
If NextGrex had been up last Sunday (1/4) would the mail disk have died? I thought we were replacing the disks; I may have been wrong.
Yes, NextGrex has all new disks.
We had hoped the mail disk would survive until the new grex machine went into service. It didn't. :(
Why didn't someone anticipate this, and replace the disc BEFORE it broke?
Did my eyes deceive me, or was it not the *controller* that died and not the "disk" (media)?
Did your eyes conceive ye?
They replaced the logic board of the drive itself, Kevin.
... but it was not a head crash or other damage to the platter or head.
I think we should pay to get NextGrex up before we have *another* disaster. We may not be so lucky next time.
Speaking as a staffer who did spend a chuck of two nights getting mail back up on Grex last week, I haven't had a lot of personal time to spend on NextGrex. Those of you who know my professional life know that I have been consumed by work on the new Malletts Creek Branch for the AADL. I and my coworkers have been writing new circulation software and setting up a new class of thin clients for the patrons to use at this new branch. Not to mention the fun of having to go through three different connectivity methods to get this branch connected to the rest of the library. Those of you who know my personal life know that my partner, Tracey, suffered a venous ischemia during a resection of two brain tumors in September and has had a difficult recovery requiring much of my remaining attention. Now, writing today, the day after the new branch opening, I have a few days of tweaking work to do, and Tracey's rehab therapy is coming along nicely. I'd like to think my life will finally slow down enough to pay more attention to NextGrex and get it up and running. Those of you who doubt my dedication or wish to poke fun at this idea need to remember that it was myself and Jan who stayed up late at night and recovered Grex's email last week. I think I've made my point. Please give our current staff a little more time.
My best wishes to Tracey and please take whatever time you need to do it right.
I certainly feel the same way, Kip. I'm glad Tracey is feeling better.
My goodness. Yes, I agree with Sindi and Mark. I apologize for my critical remarks in this item and others. I sure didn't mean to criticize anyone dealing with such circumstances as those. Best wishes to Tracey!
You are certainly not the problem with the delay of NextGrex, kip. You did outstanding work for Grex *and* in your day job with the Library.
Unfortunately, it's all to easy to forget--especailly for newcomers-- that Grex is all done by volunteers. They don't /have/ to do this. The fact that Grex has lasted this long is certainly a testiment to the staff's dedication.
And egoes ;)
TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE
You have several choices: