Grex Oldcoop Conference

Item 305: Nominations for Special Election to Fill Board Vacancies

Entered by remmers on Sat Jan 7 14:44:56 2006:

A special election needs to be held to fill the unexpired terms of Steve
Van Loon (vanloons) and David Cahill (dpc), both of whom have resigned
from the Grex board of directors.  The terms will run through December
2006.  Use this item to place names in nomination.  Self-nominations are
allowed.

The same eligibility requirements apply as in a regular board election:
By the time the election begins, you must be a member in good standing
who has paid at least three months membership dues.

I've recommended to the board that nominations be open for two weeks,
followed immediately by an online election over a period of 15 days, the
same length as a regular election.
118 responses total.

#1 of 118 by triludaa on Sat Jan 7 15:37:26 2006:

 i agree with shutting grex down forever!


#2 of 118 by keesan on Sat Jan 7 16:51:52 2006:

Remmers, could you please list both current board members and former board
members who cannot be reelected this year, so we will know who is left to
nominate?  If there are not enough people willing to run, could the bylaws
be changed to allow reelecting someone who has been out of office for a
shorter period than usually required?  


#3 of 118 by naftee on Sat Jan 7 20:42:54 2006:

i agree with triluda !


#4 of 118 by gelinas on Sun Jan 8 02:07:15 2006:

The current Directors are listed at

        http://www.cyberspace.org/local/grex/bod.html

which also has the list of those who have served before, including their dates
of service.  The Directors are aruba, slynne, gelinas, bhoward and polygon.
Those ineligible for election are vanloons, dpc and mary.  mooncat has been
out of office for one year and so is eligible for election.

I would hope some of those who refused a two-year term next month will
consider standing for these one-year terms.


#5 of 118 by keesan on Sun Jan 8 02:15:51 2006:

I nominate jadecat and remmers and scott and janc.


#6 of 118 by bhoward on Sun Jan 8 02:34:49 2006:

I would like to renominate Mike Mcnally.  His earlier objections
not withstanding, I think he would make an excellent member of
the board.


#7 of 118 by naftee on Sun Jan 8 04:36:43 2006:

i nominate sindiiii kesan.


#8 of 118 by gelinas on Mon Jan 9 02:28:17 2006:

re #4, above:  %s/next month/last month/


#9 of 118 by slynne on Mon Jan 9 02:40:21 2006:

I think everyone nominated so far would do a good job and I would be
priveledged to serve on the board with any of them. Seriously. They are
all folks whose opinions I respect. 



#10 of 118 by janc on Sat Jan 14 20:07:25 2006:

I accept Sindi's recommendation.

I haven't been terribly active on Grex lately, but I'd like to change
that.  My kids are big enough so that even board meetings wouldn't be
any real problem anymore.


#11 of 118 by aruba on Sat Jan 14 20:10:45 2006:

That's great!


#12 of 118 by keesan on Sun Jan 15 00:34:10 2006:

How old are the kids now?


#13 of 118 by kingjon on Sun Jan 15 00:38:59 2006:

Re #12: At a shell prompt, type "finger arlo kendra" to find out ...



#14 of 118 by slynne on Sun Jan 15 05:58:10 2006:

Wow, Janc. That is awesome


#15 of 118 by janc on Sun Jan 15 13:58:56 2006:

Arlo is seven, Kendra will be four in three months.


#16 of 118 by spooked on Sun Jan 15 21:11:42 2006:

Oh, how time flies!


#17 of 118 by jadecat on Mon Jan 16 20:48:50 2006:

I think I'm going to have to decline the nomination this time around.
But thanks. :)


#18 of 118 by kingjon on Mon Jan 16 23:53:43 2006:

I nominate steve, keesan, and rcurl.



#19 of 118 by slynne on Tue Jan 17 03:52:53 2006:

All good choices. 

I nominate you, kingjon


#20 of 118 by tod on Tue Jan 17 04:44:29 2006:

I nominate janc


#21 of 118 by happyboy on Tue Jan 17 09:49:27 2006:

remove the ribbon


#22 of 118 by kingjon on Tue Jan 17 11:56:29 2006:

Re #19:

I decline. If I had chosen EMU or Concordia as my college I would accept, but
I'm a student at Calvin, which is in Grand Rapids -- too far a distance.

I also nominate srw.


#23 of 118 by remmers on Tue Jan 17 12:52:22 2006:

I accept my nomination.


#24 of 118 by slynne on Tue Jan 17 17:07:02 2006:

Yay!


#25 of 118 by keesan on Tue Jan 17 23:14:58 2006:

I decline, I think remmers and janc would do a much better job.  I will
nominate myself if we ever finish building the house we started in 1986.


#26 of 118 by tod on Wed Jan 18 00:15:50 2006:

I can relate!


#27 of 118 by bhoward on Wed Jan 18 01:05:35 2006:

Dang.  20 years?  Are you growing your own trees for the wood
you need?


#28 of 118 by nharmon on Wed Jan 18 03:04:16 2006:

Hey, there are buildings that took 20 years to build. Egyptian pyramids
come to mind.


#29 of 118 by keesan on Wed Jan 18 04:00:57 2006:

Monticello took a lot longer.  We are spending too much time on the design,
and we also started by digging a hole which then caved in, and building the
foundation of recycled blocks including some from the old county building,
and as much recycled wood as people were throwing out near us, and the goal
is to heat with electricity for $100/year (or maybe with stored potatoes and
apples).  We have visited people in newer houses than this one.  


#30 of 118 by tod on Wed Jan 18 18:20:47 2006:

A man's home is his castle..and in some cases a few of us actually have a
castle.  You don't DIY overnight.


#31 of 118 by albaugh on Wed Jan 18 19:31:35 2006:

Aquinas is better...  ;-)


#32 of 118 by cross on Wed Jan 18 23:47:18 2006:

A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man
contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.
                -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery


#33 of 118 by tod on Wed Jan 18 23:51:11 2006:

I outta take this microphone and beat ya over the head with it, cuz that's
what you deserve.  That's what you deserve!!
                -- Charles Manson to the judge at his sentencing


#34 of 118 by happyboy on Thu Jan 19 09:49:39 2006:

"Puppycow Appleshoe."
  ---Koo Koo


#35 of 118 by remmers on Sat Jan 21 14:45:21 2006:

Did the Board set dates for the election?


#36 of 118 by aruba on Sun Jan 22 10:15:45 2006:

The board decided to start the election on Monday the 23rd.  Sorry that
hasn't been posted in coop before now.


#37 of 118 by remmers on Sun Jan 22 12:54:47 2006:

Okay.  I guess nominations and opportunities for acceptance end at
midnight tonight (Sunday) then.  I'll open the voting as early as
practical on Monday, when I know the complete list of candidates.  I
presume that plan is to keep the polls open for 15 days, the same as in
a regular election.

If nobody else accepts a nomination, it looks like this will be another
non-competitive election -- 2 candidates, 2 slots.

I seem to be in the position of both administering the election and
being a candidate.  This has happened before, and the way that it was
handled was to have a second person count the votes.  It's kind of moot
if there's no competition, but still it would be nice if another staff
member who's not a candidate handles the election after I've done the
initial setup.  There's not much to "handling it" - poll opening and
closing is now automated, so about the only thing the administrator has
to do is tally the results when the election is over.  It's pretty
simple to do via a script.

Any volunteers?


#38 of 118 by spooked on Sun Jan 22 22:11:26 2006:

I'll count the votes.


#39 of 118 by naftee on Mon Jan 23 01:37:04 2006:

how's your sperm count ?


#40 of 118 by happyboy on Mon Jan 23 02:01:16 2006:



        i have seven!


#41 of 118 by scholar on Mon Jan 23 11:51:03 2006:

I have many, many spermatazoa because my testicles are huge.


#42 of 118 by remmers on Mon Jan 23 16:03:40 2006:

Re #38:  Thanks, Mic.  I'll be in touch via email regarding procedures.

The polls are open, now through February 6.  It's a non-competitive election,
but you should vote anyway.  Type 'vote' at a Unix shell prompt, '!vote' at
most other prompts, or vote on the web at
https://grex.org/cgi-bin/pw/voting-booth .


#43 of 118 by keesan on Mon Jan 23 16:48:35 2006:

I read Jan's statement (Remmer's did not provide one yet) and wonder why there
is mention of setting up the Sun but nothing about all his hard work getting
the current grex hardware running.  Remmers did a lot of work on current grex
too, and it is really generous of them to also agree to run for board.


#44 of 118 by aruba on Mon Jan 23 18:20:10 2006:

Jan's statement is from the last time he ran for the board, which was a
while ago.


#45 of 118 by happyboy on Mon Jan 23 18:30:47 2006:

re41:  oh, did they finally descend?  congrats!


#46 of 118 by remmers on Mon Jan 23 18:35:23 2006:

I've emailed Jan suggesting that he update his statement.  And I'll
provide one of my own.


#47 of 118 by naftee on Mon Jan 23 21:19:30 2006:

john remmers doesn't have a voting statement :(


#48 of 118 by kingjon on Mon Jan 23 21:23:47 2006:

Amd isn't there usually a time period between the closing of nominations
 and the opening of the voting, to allow the people who haven't seen
their  nomination to be contacted and asked to accept or decline?


#49 of 118 by aruba on Mon Jan 23 23:03:39 2006:

Yes, there normally is such a period.  Since this is a special election, and
there had already been a long nomination period, the board decided to start
the election a week after our meeting (which was Monday the 16th.)


#50 of 118 by charcat on Tue Jan 24 00:29:31 2006:

I just tried voting and could not seem to vote for John,,?


#51 of 118 by janc on Sat Feb 4 15:55:27 2006:

I have updated my statement.  I also put a date on it, so that people
will know it is old the next time I run.  This happens every time.  Sure
has been a long time since I last ran.

Hmmm...didn't get John's reminder email.

Apparantly neither did John, since he still seems statementless.  Well,
I'll say that he has been active with Grex since it began, longer than I
have.  He's one of the original founders.  He is currently the most
active staff member, the one person most likely to reboot Grex when it
needs rebooting.  He'll respect Grex's traditions, and yet be open to
new ideas. Vote for John!


#52 of 118 by spooked on Tue Feb 7 10:06:41 2006:

Counting has finished in the Grex board election to fill the two 
positions made available by two resigning board members.  The tally 
of votes was:

    Members (17 voted of 60 eligible): 15 janc, 15 remmers
    Non-Members (24 voted): 19 janc, 13 remmers

Of note, only the member votes count in this election, of course.

Since there were two positions available and only two candidates 
ran for the election, the uncontested result is that both janc and 
remmers are elected to the Grex BoD.  Congrats nevertheless to Jan 
and John!  They will both do a fine job.

Thanks to all people who cast their vote!




#53 of 118 by janc on Tue Feb 7 16:19:30 2006:

Thanks.


#54 of 118 by tod on Tue Feb 7 17:18:50 2006:

You're welcome!


#55 of 118 by naftee on Tue Feb 7 21:01:07 2006:

thanks tod !


#56 of 118 by tod on Wed Feb 8 01:21:06 2006:

THanks soup!


#57 of 118 by keesan on Wed Feb 8 01:57:50 2006:

Who did the other two voting members vote for?  Is there a place on the ballot
to write in names, that I did not notice?


#58 of 118 by kingjon on Wed Feb 8 02:04:38 2006:

It is possible to vote for no candidates. You may vote for *at most* as many
candidates as there are open seats; it is possible to vote for fewer. 



#59 of 118 by keesan on Wed Feb 8 02:20:43 2006:

So either two people voted for nobody, or four people each voted for only one
person, or ....   Odd.


#60 of 118 by spooked on Wed Feb 8 08:40:42 2006:

Yep, many people vote for n positions - where n is the number of available 
positions, in this case 2.



#61 of 118 by charcat on Thu Feb 9 00:42:04 2006:

I may have been one of the people voting for only one, for some reason
in telenet I could only vote for one, using putty, I could only vote for
the other (and probably erased my vote for the first one) don't know
why, something about how my computer is set up I guess,,,,,


#62 of 118 by richard on Thu Feb 9 22:09:16 2006:

Only 28% of eligible voters voted, which could lend credence to the argument
that quorum requirements ought to be reinstated.  How few a number of votes
is too few?  Would it be okay if only one or five people voted and a board
member was elected?  I wonder if Grex's 501(3)(c) could be affected it if
does not have reasonable minimum quorum requirements?  Should Grex declare
an election void if too few voters vote and schedule another election?


#63 of 118 by mcnally on Fri Feb 10 02:53:35 2006:

 I'm just taking a wild guess here but my suspicion is that only 28% of
 voters voted because the election results were a foregone conclusion.


#64 of 118 by spooked on Fri Feb 10 09:08:05 2006:

From memory - I think you can only vote for 1 person at a time.

But, I would have to look at the software to confirm this (remmers would 
know this for sure).


#65 of 118 by richard on Fri Feb 10 15:38:55 2006:

re #62 if there are only two people running for two open seats, can the board
not declare that the election is unnecessary and vote to simply name them to
the board?


#66 of 118 by nharmon on Fri Feb 10 16:39:12 2006:

No. Because if (hypothetical if) nobody votes for one of the two
candidates, then technically he can not take the position. No?


#67 of 118 by keesan on Fri Feb 10 16:52:43 2006:

I agree that a certain percentage of voters ought to vote in order to make
an election valid - maybe 50%?


#68 of 118 by aruba on Fri Feb 10 16:57:01 2006:

The bylaws originally had such a quorum requirement, but it was removed by
a member vote.


#69 of 118 by richard on Fri Feb 10 17:09:24 2006:

re #66 yeah but one can assume that Jan and Remmers can and would have elected
themselves, simply by casting their own ballots.  No other votes were thus
necessary.


#70 of 118 by marcvh on Fri Feb 10 17:22:41 2006:

Suppose the quorum requirement were in place, and so this most recent
election were declared invalid, so the candidates were not elected.  I
suppose that the result would be a new election, and an aggressive
campaign to get more people to vote even though the positions are not
contested and so the vote doesn't particularly matter.  Would that be a
good thing?  Why?


#71 of 118 by nharmon on Fri Feb 10 17:31:40 2006:

Re 69: True, thus demonstrating the hypothetical nature. An election has
to be held so that at least one person votes for either of the two.


#72 of 118 by richard on Fri Feb 10 17:35:40 2006:

re #70 sure it would be a good thing because it would have allowed more time
to encourage others to run.  Grex should not want to have an election where
there are not more candidates than seats to be filled.  Grex should want
voters to have a choice, which they did not have here.


#73 of 118 by richard on Fri Feb 10 17:39:00 2006:

Or maybe just an amendment that states that if the nominating period closes
and there are not more nominees than there are open seats, that the nominating
process shall be automatically extended.  That henceforth grex will not hold
uncontested elections.


#74 of 118 by keesan on Fri Feb 10 17:49:59 2006:

How about a way for people to vote AGAINST some candidate, and they can't win
if they have more votes against than for them?  Then total jerks could not
win an election where there were no more candidates than openings.


#75 of 118 by marcvh on Fri Feb 10 17:50:34 2006:

So you'll end up with a perennial candidate who runs on a platform of
"don't vote for me, I'm only here to make the election legitimate."


#76 of 118 by mcnally on Fri Feb 10 18:02:30 2006:

 "If nominated, I will not run.  If elected, I will not serve."
                                   - William Tecumseh Sherman


#77 of 118 by albaugh on Fri Feb 10 19:07:36 2006:

You can't have an election determined by proclamation, since that would
prevent the opportunity for write-in candidates.


#78 of 118 by kingjon on Fri Feb 10 19:30:53 2006:

Re #72: There were more than two nominees; I suspect that they hadn't seen
their nominations in the item. I think we need to make sure that henceforward
there's the time period after the close of nominations but before the election
starts for the nominees to be notified.



#79 of 118 by mcnally on Fri Feb 10 20:20:30 2006:

 re #78:  I was one of the additional nominees and I can assure you, I saw
 my nomination.  However, I had just declined another nomination only a few
 weeks before and saw no need to issue a second refusal.


#80 of 118 by other on Fri Feb 10 22:05:43 2006:

A) You can't force people to accept a nomination.
B) You can't force people to run.
C) You can't force people to vote.

Given these facts, there is no reason to implement a policy that
prevents the organization from functioning for those who actually do
wish to participate.  If people want contests, then they should run. 
Richard, if you want competition for board positions, then you should
take it upon yourself to run and create that competition.  If you can't
even be bothered to do that, why should anyone pay attention to your
complaint about the lack of choice?

Also, given a policy that does not require a quorum, the logical
assumptions are that if you don't bother to vote, then you don't care
what the outcome is, and if you don't like the nominated choices in the
election, you will run for the position yourself.  Again, given this
basic logic, if you actually care (instead of just liking to bitch about
things and not do anything to change them -- in which case fuck you) but
aren't willing to do anything, why should anyone else care what you say
or think?


#81 of 118 by richard on Fri Feb 10 22:37:41 2006:

Other,  your "logical assumptions" are wrong.  Why would one logically run
for an office when one lives a thousand miles away and has no conceivable way
of ever attending a board meeting in person?  That doesn't mean that one can't
care about the process, and the legitimacy of the process.  

I ask again, how few is too few?  If only remmers and jan voted in this
election, and elected themselves, is that tantamount to a mandate from grex's
membership that they be on the board?  Why were the quorum requirements
rescinded in the first place?  Was the board too lazy to do mass mailings and
push members to vote?  It wouldn't be so hard to get the extra ten votes
needed to get over forty percent would it, if the board was working toward
that goal.

I think the quorum requirements were restricted because the board had no
interest in pushing its own members to be active in the organization.  So lets
eliminate quorum rules altogether, so the FEW can guarantee elections without
needing the MANY.  I ask again, HOW FEW IS TOO FEW?  


#82 of 118 by tod on Fri Feb 10 22:41:42 2006:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060204/482/xsr20302040051


#83 of 118 by richard on Fri Feb 10 22:52:43 2006:

I suggest a sliding quorum requirement.  For the initial election, make the
quorum 40%, if a second election is needed, reduce quorum to thirty five
percent, if a third, thirty percent.  You'd still get to the point where an
election could take place with less than a quarter turnout, but not right away
and not easily.  


#84 of 118 by spooked on Sat Feb 11 02:00:36 2006:

I think the fact that people actually put forward themseleves to run is 
admirable and wins some votes - not to say that either candidate is not 
worthy of their board election victory, nor that they won't do a great 
job.




#85 of 118 by mcnally on Sat Feb 11 03:30:59 2006:

 re #81:
 > Why would one logically run for an office when one lives a thousand
 > miles away and has no conceivable way of ever attending a board meeting
 > in person?

 I'll admit that distance was a factor that led me to refuse nomination
 but bhoward finds the time to volunteer on the board and attends meetings
 via videoconference from Tokyo.


#86 of 118 by cross on Sat Feb 11 04:43:17 2006:

Richard, I think you take grex way too seriously.


#87 of 118 by janc on Mon Feb 13 18:00:29 2006:

I have nothing to say, but I am posting anyway, because I think the
subject under discussion is every bit as important as voting in an
uncontested election.  I call for all Grexers to stand firm in the
preservation of that greatest of all Grex traditions, pointless
activity.


#88 of 118 by kingjon on Mon Feb 13 18:33:47 2006:

Hear, hear!



#89 of 118 by tod on Mon Feb 13 19:50:53 2006:

Grex Error Alerts have been raised to color code chartreuse..


#90 of 118 by crimson on Mon Feb 13 21:59:54 2006:

... and downgraded again to mauve.


#91 of 118 by richard on Tue Feb 14 15:26:01 2006:

#87 jan, you'd call quorums pointless until grex is taken over by a fringe
element that gets its people elected to the board with half a dozen votes
because there is no quorum and nobody cares.  Radicals get elected in
societies with no quorums.


#92 of 118 by jep on Tue Feb 14 16:01:20 2006:

We've just elected a couple of radicals here!  Heh.

If Jan Wolter and John Remmers are the kinds of people we are electing 
to the Board, I have a very hard time being concerned about the manner 
in which they were selected.  I am completely failing to come up with 
any ambition to support making a change.


#93 of 118 by richard on Tue Feb 14 16:20:26 2006:

just because the results now are acceptable doesn't mean they will always be,
someday some twit is going to get elected to grex's board with eight votes.


#94 of 118 by tod on Tue Feb 14 17:10:24 2006:

/eg


#95 of 118 by jep on Tue Feb 14 17:49:08 2006:

If the Grex Board gets overrun by ninnies, then we'll all find 
something else to do with our time beside spending it on Grex.


#96 of 118 by tod on Tue Feb 14 18:22:53 2006:

if


#97 of 118 by mcnally on Tue Feb 14 21:48:38 2006:

 re #91, 93:  In other words, your nobleminded proposals are really
 intended to alter the system to ensure that a majority of voters
 never elects candidates who are unacceptable to you?


#98 of 118 by tod on Tue Feb 14 22:06:12 2006:

The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few...


#99 of 118 by nharmon on Tue Feb 14 22:11:50 2006:

or the one.


#100 of 118 by krj on Wed Feb 15 05:23:49 2006:

My theory is that a twit is more likely to get elected to the 
Grex board due to a lack of candidates, rather than a lack of 
voters.  So, perhaps to combat this threat, every Grex member should
be required to run in, say, every third board election.
 
(*coff*)


#101 of 118 by spooked on Wed Feb 15 11:21:23 2006:

That would sure boost our membership =)


#102 of 118 by nharmon on Wed Feb 15 13:07:51 2006:

I think its funny that we're so concerned about "twits" becoming board
members.


#103 of 118 by keesan on Wed Feb 15 17:42:51 2006:

If they can nominate themselves and be seconded by one member, it could happen
some day.  How about a rule by which anyone nominated by 10 members is forced
to run for the board?  I nominate krj.


#104 of 118 by tod on Wed Feb 15 18:25:52 2006:

re #100
That's not nice.


#105 of 118 by jadecat on Wed Feb 15 19:35:28 2006:

re #103- I don't think that would work. How can you force someone to
serve on the Board?


#106 of 118 by nharmon on Wed Feb 15 19:49:31 2006:

I wonder if forcing people to serve on the board violates any state
corporation laws.


#107 of 118 by marcvh on Wed Feb 15 21:14:57 2006:

or possibly the 13th amendment.


#108 of 118 by nharmon on Wed Feb 15 21:17:57 2006:

Huh?


#109 of 118 by keesan on Thu Feb 16 00:45:56 2006:

That was a joke.


#110 of 118 by naftee on Thu Feb 16 02:31:14 2006:

boy dat lol


#111 of 118 by janc on Thu Feb 16 13:47:51 2006:

I think that if a person who many people thought was a twit was running
for the board then (a) other candidates would appear, and (b) more
people would take the trouble to vote.  Richard seems to assume that
voter apathy would be uneffected by the kind of imaginary circumstances
that he thinks would cause it to be a problem.

Honestly, it's hard to image two less controversial board candidates
than John and I.


#112 of 118 by remmers on Thu Feb 16 20:29:29 2006:

We could change that...


#113 of 118 by mcnally on Thu Feb 16 20:42:47 2006:

  Maybe we should auto-nominate the most twit-like person on Grex in
  each future board election, ensuring that all elections are contested
  by candidates who want to prevent the twit's election.


#114 of 118 by crimson on Thu Feb 16 21:18:05 2006:

But what if one *won*?


#115 of 118 by davel on Thu Feb 16 21:20:38 2006:

Maybe turnout would improve in the next election?


#116 of 118 by tod on Thu Feb 16 21:39:15 2006:

re #114
Haven't they?


#117 of 118 by cross on Thu Feb 16 22:27:54 2006:

I protest!


#118 of 118 by jesuit on Wed May 17 02:16:02 2006:

TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE


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