ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 2005 Ryan Antkowiak,,, ryan Mon Aug 29 22:50:03 20 rya72 responses total.
i think jason and i have the right to have a tel war late at night when no one is here and no one is fighting for resources. i also think you are a gay little bitch but that is beside the point. neither jason nor i stopped any of the 10 users from doing anything they would need to do.
Back when I was staff, I would have locked that account right away. I wouldn't make any assumption that it was a little private "for fun" battle, either.
Other than being childish (?) or annoying (?), what does that ps output imply about affect on grex, really?
If the owner of the "jason" account complains to staff we'll certainly take the matter under advisement. Otherwise, what's the basis for the complaint? More to the point, though, given that we have an open newuser policy and newuser is currently enabled, what's the point of locking an account supposed to be? In the past it hasn't effectively deterred problem users from coming back under other names, it's only made it harder for people who want to ignore the problem user to do so by causing them to shift login names periodically.
that's why you aren't currently on staff, scott. secondly you don't have the temperment as a mcnally and you sir are altogether useless, scott. so in short mcnally rules and scott suck dick and ryan is cry baby bitch.
Nope, I resigned from staff, for completely boring reasons such as "not available to do any staff work".
You're not really making much of a case in your own defense, are you? I believe you've got the potential to act like an intelligent, mature person. It'd help things a lot if you decided to exercise that potential. Being curious about how the system works and wanting to learn are good things. If it turns out that you ARE harassing users who don't welcome your tels, that's going to be a bad thing. I'm currently inclined to defend your "right" (for lack of a better word) to explore the system but if I conclude that you're seriously harassing people I assure you that my sympathy would be with them, rather than you.. In the meantime, nothing anybody has said yet has demonstrated to me that you're causing any serious harassment or disruption and you've been polite and responsive when we've talked about things like your runaway CPU job the other day. I hope that things will continue on that basis and that you continue to enjoy grex by learning about the system. Please don't put me in a position of having to protect other users from your experiments.
re #6: Scott slipped in, my #7 was (obviously, I hope) intended for triludaa's benefit.
This response has been erased.
Well, that seems clear enough.
Yeah ; it's clear that jason decides to wait seven hours before complaining in the system problems item.
hum, jason, and you sent me no tels nor did you send me 430 emails marked from me to me, get real man. seriously. you can give but you can't take? check the mail logs and you will see. however, the real thing here is this, like life there will be several things that happen to you that you don't like. you have ways around them. cutting an account is one and perhaps the most foolish of them all. crying like jason after doing the same things is stupid. you can take view as i shall do: what jason and i did was foolish, yet fun; no one got hurt, no one died and i consider the issue dead. if you check the mail logs and you find i got the amount of mail i said i did, you track it jason, you come to me and say do i wish to complain? i will say no, i am a big boy and i can handle myself, thanks! good day to you, sir.
Re. 10: Does it? How do we know jason didn't originally consent to the tels, and only later, as a way to get triluda in trouble, claim he objected to it?
i forgot i had putty logging turn on. so if you'd like to see tel for tel mail for mail what went down i have a full record of it. i am sure you can easily match this with the write logs and the logs for mail. what seems cloudy is often muddy. what is clear though is ryan is stalking me: ryan: !cat triludaa.log
No such file or directory
re #13, #10: I meant it seems clear enough that a complaint has been made.
This response has been erased.
It appears that triluda is accusing you of spamming his e-mail account. My suggestion would be that you just filter his mail, and be done with it.
either that or you quit spamin' my email from another shell account, i already have seen how childish you can be about your party bot, so i know you aren't beyound reproach. perhaps you can have your mother come in here and defend you on the fact you didn't send me spam from #shell.be
i would also like to ask how your party bot was acceptable. i saved all those emails and many posted where the request were made from, i bet you have a connection to #shell.be ssh 217.22.55.50 and that's what my email suggest. then it states a fact or two, you are a shitbag so is the person who hatched you.
re #17:
> Attached below is a harassing email sent to me by triludaa. This type of
> behavior is completely unacceptable. Again I ask, why is this person still
> allowed to come here?
What do you propose we do? Lock his account and shut down newuser? Forever?
The bottom-line answer to your question "why is this person still allowed to
come here?" is this: Grex runs an open system. We let *everyone* come here.
We do hope that people observe a modicum of decorum but so far nothing anyone
has credibly accused him of amounts to more than petty harassment and poor
taste -- not enough to be worth compromising the system's goals of open access.
> All he does is cause trouble for everybody.
Curiously he seems to mostly cause trouble for you and jason and based on
his responses to your allegations I'd say he makes a reasonable case that the
trouble-causing is mutual. If you kids insist on making a stink that bothers
the other users then somebody from staff (not me -- I don't believe banning
users is effective) may take it on themselves to act but with the mutual
accusations that have been made don't assume that you'll be happy with the
results if that occurs.
Meanwhile if you want to e-mail me privately I would be happy to show you
how to use tools already available on Grex to:
a) block triludaa from sending tels or writes to you
b) block triludaa from sending e-mail to you via an e-mail blacklist
c) block everyone except pre-arranged senders from sending e-mail to
you via an e-mail whitelist.
d) block response from triludaa in party and bbs.
The system's more than big enough for both of you if you'll just drop your
juvenile little feud and with a little bit of effort either one of you can
end it unilaterally. Why not do that?
This response has been erased.
Again I find Mcnally a bless for grex. Not because he appears to support me, because he doesn't he supports a free system and has a level head. This staff memeber (Mcnally) is a role model for all want to be staff for grex. I have not complained on anyone, nor have i asked for staff to contact the other shell that the emails came from, i am not seeking their help on this matter because I realize ryan is being a child. I also realize I have the right and the ability to take care of my party, bbs, mail and tels on grex and shouldn't trouble staff for something I can do. I also don't have this lock and reap account theory that seemed to be big at some time on grex. I for one will drop the issue and not reply back to ryan who appears to only be childish to me. I do say, however, if you wish to kill my account you should at least get my saved log on both jason and ryan which includes all tels and mails. good day to you ryan.
Please explain how to block the telegrams, which get in the way when I am trying to read the web. I know how to block emails but don't have any objection to conducting a discussion via email. I don't want to block all telegrams because I meet some interesting people from other countries.
I think you can add the people you don't want to receive telegrams from to the file ~/.nowrite. Then your login script (.profile, .zshrc, whatever) should execute the command mesg -ye (thats accept messages with exceptions). Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong on this.
amin -n lynx or amin -n bbs or amin -n <program> for whatever program you are running and don't want to be disturbed by writes/tels
mcnally is great
This response has been erased.
Thanks for the .nowrite info. I already had such a file with a few variants of polytarp in it, and it had never worked. I added to .cshrc 'mesg -ye'. I don't suppose there is an easy way to set up 'tel' not to send telegrams to more than one person in one minute. You don't want to block someone from sending multiple telegrams to one person, because that is the only way some people have figured out to communicate - during the first five tels I attempt to teach them to use 'talk' or even email instead.
While adulations from me are hardly worth much in the way of respect on Grex, I'd like to thank mcnally for being the person to finally put ryan in his place.
Please ignore that offensive comment by nharmon ; I truly and utterly believe mcnally to be a great staff member and all-around Alaskian.
Re #26: "amin" is a way to indicate to someone that you're busy with something and would rather not be bothered, but it doesn't block them if they decide to go ahead and write you anyway.
amin ,idi
i know someone with the last name amin, but he is not a dictator.
He's a javascript function !
Umm, yes it does John - if you pass it the correct argument (like I specified).
try !man amin ?
AUTHOR : Jan Wolter
Re #36: Ah - ok. Had forgotten that.
However, amin blocks everybody, which you might not want to do. If you want to filter selectively without blocking everyone, then .procmailrc (for mail), :ignore (for party), and .nowrite (for write/tel/talk) are tools designed for that purpose. I use 'em, and I agree with mcnally that barring users for bad taste, besides being difficult to implement from a technical standpoint, isn't what Grex is about.
Does grex have .yeswrite ?
It used to...
Yes, it does.
This same user (triludaa)has in the past used his grex email priviledges to mail bomb other users. One night he used one of his known other grex emails to flood by email box with close to 10,000 emails. I complained to staff and provided clear evidence that he did this, and staff did nothing. I thought staff could have reported that activity, and I'm sure I wasn't the only user he used grex to mailbomb, to his ISP at the least. On another occasion, he changed his .forward file on his "triluda" account to my email address, so that any email sent to him by staff went to me. Staff reset his password and the .forward file was taken out and that is why he is now "triludaa" with two a's, because he had to get a new login. he's a troublemaker who has no desire to use grex in a proper manner, and who seems to only desire to find new ways to abuse it. What do you do about users like this?
Basically you have two choices: 1) Turn off newuser 2) Learn to live with them. We've already had a long period this year without newuser and people weren't very happy about it. And we can take actions to mitigate some of the more common misbehaviors. But *some* level of annoyance is always going to be present on an open system.
clear evidence? what the fuck ever, dude! get real and go fuck yourself.
fuck 'em
This response has been erased.
i agree with ryan. in fact, grex should close its doors period. shut down and never turn on. or we can stop new user ban me, naftee, scholar and a whole host of others so it's just down down krj, bru, ryan and his mother. if you choose to do that grex should change its name to children of corn!
My cousin Settimio in New York (we call him "Babe") will take care of Grex's little problem, but it's gonna cost you. Or, you could just learn to enjoy the little ones -- make them take off their muddy shoes before coming in, shush them when the grownups are talking, clean up their messes, tell them when they're doing well, give them the occasional time out, and enourage them to sit up straight and finish their vegetables.
re #49 Valerie starring as Malachai!
McNally correctly points out, and Ryan apparently agrees, that major changes to system policy would be needed to implement selective exclusion of users. Eliminating newuser, or comparably drastic measures. So maybe this is a good time to remind folks that Grex is a Michigan corporation with a set of bylaws that it is legally obligated to follow. These specify a governance structure and policy-making procedures. Structure: Grex has members (people who pay dues, get to vote, and have a few additional perks such as outgoing telnet access), a board of directors (elected by the members), and a technical staff (appointed by the board and responsible for implementing policies and keeping the system running). Procedures: The technical staff doesn't make policy, it's job is to implement it and to keep the system running. Policy is made by the board or by member vote. Traditionally, the board deals mainly deals with things that involve money issues - hardware upgrades, rent, insurance, etc. - with more far-reaching changes to the user experience - access policies, etc. - being enacted by member vote. I think that any change in newuser, mail access, posting privileges, anything like that - should be by vote of the members. The bylaws specify how this works - member makes a proposal in a new coop item, there's open discussion for a set period of time, 10% of the members have to endorse bringing the proposal to a vote, proposer submits final wording, then a vote takes place by secret online ballot over a period of days. (For text of the bylaws, see item 2 of this conference or go to http://grex.org/local/grex/bylaws.html) Several policies have come into existence by member vote. (And several proposals have failed, as well.) See the "Grex Member Votes" webpage (http://grex.org/local/grex/votes.html) for a history. Actually, I'd like to see people's ideas for improving the Grex experience. And maybe I personally find annoying some of the same users that Ryan and other find annoying. Perhaps that's the price you have to pay to have the things that one likes about Grex, perhaps not. But just bear in mind that for anything to change, you have to have a concrete, technically feasible proposal, and you have to persuade enough people that it's a good idea to vote it in.
I find the GreX experience as enjoyable as enjoyment offers.
or you could go join the well or the wall or whatever that pay for chat site is and then see how long they put up with your baby whining bullshit.
also i would like ryan to think of this, there is a whole host of party goers that dislike you mother because all she does is talk about crap such as: what she is cooking, what dave thought, what she cleaned today and so forth. perhaps you might want to protest and get her banned as well.
Shutting off newuser would be lame.
I am a paying member of Grex, and would probably cease being such if newuser were shut down because of a policy decision. I do not think I would be the only one. Grex needs new members in order for it continue as a healthy organization. Without new members, it'll simply die out. And shutting down newuser will do just that.
Shutting down newuser will kill kittens.
And then only killers will have guns!
I am not a paying member. If newuser is shut down I will stop using grex and encourage any grexer with whom i might have any influence to do likewise.
It occurs to me that what grex needs are users, not members. The ``member'' population is totally out of touch with the vast, vast, vast majority of grex users, but still seem to feel they are the only ones qualified to wield any authority on grex. One lesson I learned about leadership is that, with authority, comes responsibility. The grex membership has authority to make decisions affecting a group many times larger than itself, but takes almost no responsibility for doing so.
I'm a member and I try not to touch anybody's vast vast vast anything without gloves first.
I am not a member, but I would touch tod's wife without my gloves.
thanks, naftee
> The grex membership has authority to make decisions affecting a group > many times larger than itself, but takes almost no responsibility for > doing so. Be careful what you wish for.
It bears pointing out that the political climate is still changing in this country. With a more conservative congress and a more conservative judiciary, and acts like the Patriot Act already on the books, it is likely there will be another attempt to push through a version of the Communications Decency Act. It is conceivable that grex may one day not be able to exist in its current form due to new censorship laws. Grex with its open newuser provides uncensored content that children can read, and laws could easily come that would require grex to censor its own material and age- verify its users. So the question may be, do you wait until you are forced to do things differently, or do you attempt to adjust now so that there is more time to find changes that are acceptable? For grex to do nothing belies the dark future that may await it in the years to come as this country gets swallowed up in paranoia.
> So the question may be, do you wait until you are forced to do things > differently, or do you attempt to adjust now so that there is more > time to find changes that are acceptable? Not only do we wait until we are forced to do things differently, but we attempt to nip in the butt any upcoming legislation that forces us to change how we do business. If anything like the Communications Decency Act ever finds its way on to the law books, perhaps Grex and M-Net can come together (*huh* *huh*, come) and buy a server colo'd on Sealand. 8D
YES! Go Sealand!
<scans barcode on infidel's forehead>
I don't think anyone wants Newuser shut down. I certainly don't. But what I do know is that our policies act as a filter for the users we attract. By staying wide open we don't appeal to everyone. Just as a verified system doesn't appeal to everyone. Everyone checking us out decides if the content is worth their time. It's the content that is the deal breaker, not the gate. To a great degree I think we've worked ourselves into a positon where we are stuck with our course. We don't have enough users that if we had the BIG BATTLE over verification, the remaining folks would make critical mass. Yet our content now is pretty thin and the community ingrown. I suspect many of us are here because of momentum and habit. I still enjoy Grex but I'm also glad there are other communities out there.
"Yet our content now is pretty thin and the community ingrown. I suspect many of us are here because of momentum and habit." I simply can't believe that mary has posted something that I actually agree with....just when you think you heard it all.
TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE
You have several choices: