#6 of 10: by Dan Cross (cross) on Sat, Jan 8, 2005 (20:11): Well, your shell looks okay. Joe, did you see anything weird? #7 of 10: by Joe (gelinas) on Sat, Jan 8, 2005 (20:31): Yes, I do see something weird, and I'm checking on it. He sees something weird, does he? So do I. Yet another likely successful attempt by GreX's staff to withhold information from GreX's members. Why does GreX's staff like holding its members so much? That is, why can't WE, the people who support GreX and who GreX is run for, know what's happening on GreX? #9 of 10: by Guy Polis (cyfapunk) on Sat, Jan 8, 2005 (21:52): So what's going on Joe? I can use this OK so its not my password? Was my account's status changed in one of the system files? I don't think my password was up for expiration. Was someone else hacking on the system? #10 of 10: by Joe (gelinas) on Sat, Jan 8, 2005 (21:56): I'll contact you in e-mail, cyfapunk. Why are issues that are so important that two staff members and running around and hilariously bumping into each other (laugh track) in an attempt to deal with them not so discretely shuffled off into E-mail? #8 of 10: by Dan Cross (cross) on Sat, Jan 8, 2005 (21:45): Okay, I figured you might, so I didn't investigate further. And why is this apparently accepted by more than one staff member, suggesting that it's not a PROBLEM_PERSON problem so much as something that's endemic to the system? It baffles the mind, which struggles to come up with some sort of coherent answer. The first thing that suggests itself is that perhaps this is an inherent state of a GreX staff member. That merely by being a member of GreX's staff one either must already have or must immedietly aquire a certain taste for distaaastful secrecy. One might this this for a while, but it doesn't last for long. What mechanism could possibly account for this? The only answer is MYSTICAL. Perhaps some chakrahs somewhere are aligned in such manner that necessiSTATES such a characteristic. This too isn't believable for long, especially not in the Tradition as it is to-day, with its adopted (and, ironically, unlike in normal adoption, where the relationship is such that the parent nutures and cares for and creates a mature child, this one here has the adoptee maturing the adopter) emphasis on what is emirically knowable. Thus, one comes to the conclusion that there isn't really a problem at all. That we'[re mistaken when we think it's unusual or impossible that all of GreX's staff loves secrecy. This doesn't hold for long, and, I think, the positions become cyclical and we go back to the beginning. We might find the problem of how this works incomprehensible, but we must nevertheless look for a way to solve it.18 responses total.
#11 of 11: by Guy Polis (cyfapunk) on Sat, Jan 8, 2005 (23:19): Er, Joe how? I still can't log in to read email. That's probably the funniest thing ever, and demonstrates how going against good principle inevitably leads to things that are bad EVEN in utilitarian terms.
#12 of 12: by Joe (gelinas) on Sat, Jan 8, 2005 (23:30): I'll work something out. Yet another reflexive gesture of secrecy.
So you wouldn't have a problem with Grex's staff giving out your password in a public forum, yanno, in the interests of no secrets?
I wouldn't mind at all if they gave out MyDearPassword .
(ANYWAY< I WOULD mind, but I wouldn't mind if they notified people that that's what they were doing, rather than reflexively HIDING tihngs (perhaps in gelinas's beard)).
Generally there is a reason that things are hidden. Is it a matter of staff hiding things or a matter of that same staff respecting the privacy of a member? Why should staff tell us every single little keystroke they make? If there was a problem with my account- I would rather it was discussed privately with me rather than in front of everyone. As a matter of respecting my privacy.
Miie, too. I think the staff is handling this properly.
Re. 6: I would expect and hope that they would as much as possible try to strike the mean between affecting my privacy and maximising openness. All I'm saying is that for significant actions, they should by default try to tell us what's happening. I'm not saying they have to "tell us every single little keystroke they make," which is why I stressed how this action was obviously significant.
Why?
To eliminate the reflex of secrecy that shouldn't be present in an organization such as Cyberspace, Inc.
But I thought we established that some secrecy is necessary?
Some secrecy is necessary. We can't be said to have established that, since we both believed it well before this item's genesis. What I'm saying is that for SIGNIFICANT ITEMS the act of secrecy should only be entered into when there is SPECIAL REASON for doing so. Things related to SIGNIFICANT ITEMS should by default be made known, even if only in vague, unspecific terms, as in a preface to a book. This contrasts with the current system of keeping things related to SIGNIFICANT ITEMS secret BY DEFAULT, and only RELEASING information when there is SPECIAL REASON. Now, the DECONSTRUCTIVE METHODS of Hegel, Derrida, Sartre, Heideigger, etc., tell us that secrecy and non-secrecy aren't actually opposites, and that one is just a special case of the other and vice versa, and that this situation brings to mind the PARADOXICAL Special Loops elucidated by Hofstadter, but since we are making a practical distinction, and it appears all practical distinctions have the same quality, it doesn't seem like we have much choice.
> Why does GreX's staff like holding its members so much? Because they're so warm and cuddly.
re #12- now you're just makin' stuff up. ;)
re 0 If the problem of how this works is incomprehensible and baffles the mind, and yet we must come up with some sort of coherent answer, to nevertheless find a way to solve it, we must really be screwed by GreX staff, yes?
V. insightful and v. much indeed.
I dan see why Joe wouldn't want to be specific about what was wrong, but I think a generalized statment like, "Your password was changed," or "Your mail was copied," etc. would be informative without revealing anything.
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