Recently enough, a certain Grex staff member was a bit confused. He thought, see, that /etc/passwd files, which don't actually contain any passwords, were somehow dangerous things. In his confusion, he incorrectly believed that having such things posted on Grex would somehow compromise the security of Grex and other systems. No-one but him believed this to be the case. Indeed, many people much more experienced in system administration than him came forward to verify that /etc/passwd files being posted on Grex was a perfectly harmless activity. He now rightly believes this truth. However, in his confusion -- when he thought that something good was wrong -- he naturally and nobly attacked what he believed to be wrong. He did this by freezing the accounts of users who were posting /etc/passwd files. Let me make something clear at this point. No-one would rightly condemn the staff member for doing something he thought was good and just and beneficial for the system. Indeed, he should only be condemned for acting contrary to what he believes to be good and just and beneficial for the system. The problem, then, isn't with the actions that were taken. Instead, the problem is that certain actions weren't taken after the staff member was led up the rocky incline into the world of truth and justice and true and just forms. In his confusion, he had unjustly caused damages to certain people by freezing their accounts. Now that we all realize this action was unjust, we should surely attempt to restore it and make ammends. This can be done quite simply. All it would take is for a staff member to take five minutes to reset the accounts and communicate the login information to people whose property was unjustly destroyed. This should, I think, be done to-day.40 responses total.
Uh, whether or not posting /etc/passwd files in a public forum was a harmless activity or not, it was an UNnecessary activity. It was in FACT an attempt, albeit a futile and useless one, to harm the system. It was attempt to be a nuisance and divert staff resources. Those user ids should have been locked. This is what happens when you are a pain in the ass, you lose your id and you have to go create a new one. Which is all they have to do, run newuser. Losing a login is a penalty for juvenile behaviour, its like a slap on the wrist
I predict David is not going to last very long at the University of Toronto.
Re #1: If we are going to lock the accounts of users whose posts are deemed "UNnecessary activity" then I can see justification for locking LOTS of accounts.
Lock 'em up and throw away the [encrypted] key...
#2...I meant "unnecessary activity intended to either harm the system or needlessly divert staff resources" This could be anything from posting the passwd file in a public forum, to entering Plato's Republic three hundred times in Agora just to annoy people.
re #1 "Losing a login is a penalty for juvenile behaviour, its like a slap on the wrist" Its more like a monkey see, monkey do when you consider the staff wastes their time following around those they don't "like".
Re. 1, 5: In response 1, you agree that posting /etc/passwd files was a harmless activity. The only thing you state that you think should be punishable by account loss is "unnecessary activity". In response 5, you define "unnecessary activity" as something INTENDED to HARM the system. Posting /etc/passwd files DIDN"T harm the system, and -- more importantly, when analyzing whether or not it counts as "unnecesasry activity" according to your definition -- WASN"T INTENTED to harm the system or, for that matter, anything else. Re. 2: I predict the same thing, but I wonder why you predict it. I predict it because I've decided that what I'm doing here isn't for me, and that I'd be better off doing something else somewhere else, though I'll certainly stick it out for the year. Anyway, folks. I think the situation can be neatly described as such: 1. People posted /etc/passwd files. This was not unjust at all. 2. A certain staff member believed the action described therein #1 was unjust. He therefore punished the people he believed to be taking unjust actions by freezing their accounts. 3. Punishing just actions is an unjust action. 4. Unjust actions should be undone as much as possible, so as to restore justice. 5. The unjust action of freezing accounts of people who had done nothing unjust must be undone by unfreezing the accounts. Doesn't that make sense?
And the moon isn't even full...
Instead of making snide comments, perhaps you can tell me where you think I've erred in my analysis.
I should probably respond quickly, before I forget all about this. I've somehow acquired the unfortunate habit of forgetting everything you say moments after I read it. I don't actually remember anything about this incident you are talking about, which suggests either that the account involved was one of yours, or that I've forgotten that there are other people I forget just as rapidly. If it should happen to have been you, then it appears that you have acquired another account somehow, and are going along just spiffily, so there really seems to have been no great harm done. I can't remember how many accounts you've had so far, but it seems like quite a lot. You'd probably start feeling all itchy if you had the same account for four months in a row. So, if you were harmed at all, then it was just a teeny tiny little harm. Posting a passwd file to the conferences is a teeny tiny harm too. In the context of a conferencing system, it's basically littering. All sorts of people who would like to be reading conferences find themselves reading an ugly load of gibberish instead. So a teeny tiny harm was done, and a teeny tiny harm was received and ... What was my point again? Dang, I forgot. But I suspect I'm happier that way.
By that logic, Jan, you should have a teeny tiny harm done to you, since your post did a teeny tiny bit of harm to me by annoying me. Needless to say, no-one should harm you in any way. Through a teeny tiny bit of properly applied casuistry, then, we can determine that no harm should have been done to the people whose accounts were closed and that those accoutns should be restored promptly.
re: 0,7,9,11: too stupid; didn't read
Thanks, Eric. :(
Well, I'm sorry I annoyed you. In retribution for my sins, I'll say something
nice:
You, mfp, are my favorite user.
There. Now we are all even-steven and we can forget the whole subject,
whatever the heck it was.
hi, jan. i think i'm on the verge of being absolutely psychotic. like, seriously. i don't know what happened to my brain, but GEEz. it's sad.
Also things like posting passwd files and posting plato's republic over a hundred times can be interpreted as an attempt to slow down the system by filling up its disk space (which is limited after all) What looks like fun to one person can look like vandalism to another
root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash daemon:x:1:1:daemon:/usr/sbin:/bin/sh bin:x:2:2:bin:/bin:/bin/sh sys:x:3:3:sys:/dev:/bin/sh sync:x:4:100:sync:/bin:/bin/sync games:x:5:100:games:/usr/games:/bin/sh man:x:6:100:man:/var/cache/man:/bin/sh lp:x:7:7:lp:/var/spool/lpd:/bin/sh mail:x:8:8:mail:/var/mail:/bin/sh news:x:9:9:news:/var/spool/news:/bin/sh uucp:x:10:10:uucp:/var/spool/uucp:/bin/sh proxy:x:13:13:proxy:/bin:/bin/sh postgres:x:31:32:postgres:/var/lib/postgres:/bin/sh www-data:x:33:33:www-data:/var/www:/bin/sh backup:x:34:34:backup:/var/backups:/bin/sh operator:x:37:37:Operator:/var:/bin/sh list:x:38:38:SmartList:/var/list:/bin/sh irc:x:39:39:ircd:/var:/bin/sh gnats:x:41:41:Gnats Bug-Reporting System (admin):/var/lib/gnats:/bin/sh nobody:x:65534:65534:nobody:/home:/bin/sh dah:x:1000:1000:David A. Hoffman,,,:/home/dah:/bin/tcsh sshd:x:100:65534::/var/run/sshd:/bin/false naftee:x:1001:1001:,,,:/home/naftee:/bin/bash jlamb:x:1002:1002:,,,:/home/jlamb:/bin/bash Thanks for reminding me to reread the chapters of The Repulic of Plato of Allan Bloom I'm being lectured on tomorrow!
I like the last item in the feme conference
SlIP! I MEANT FEMME
Hey, mfp posted an /etc/passwd file, freeze his account, NOW!
By the way: I didn't actually read the Bloom translation. I, like any decent person, read the Grube one. Bloom is a kerl, even if he's associated with the University of Toronto.
[Has "kerl" caught on yet? I've been using it all the time in the hope that everyone in the legal system hereabouts will adopt it. I even threw it into a few depositions, and employed it in trial testimony in New York City recently. You know, it might not seem like much, but these teeny tiny steps are how history is made, you know?] Anyhow, fwiw, I agree with David that the accounts of his that were deleted on account of his being an asshole should all be reinstated. If "being an asshole" were in itself sufficient cause to have one's account deleted, then rcurl and md, to name only two prominent and beloved Grexers, would've been deleted ages ago. Need I even mention jp2, twinkie, happyboy and the others? Here's a suggestion: to help gather the assholery all in one place, I suggest that all of David's deleted accounts be reinstated and turned over to me. Just reset the passwords and email me the list of id's and passwords, and I'll take it from there.
What right do you have to call md an asshole?
I don't get it. :(
re22: thank you for mentioning me, oldtimer!
>> #23 of 25: by Sindi Keesan (keesan) on Mon, Oct 11, 2004 (00:17): >> What right do you have to call md an asshole? > #22 of 25: by ipse (md) on Sun, Oct 10, 2004 (09:38): > If "being an asshole" were in itself sufficient cause to have one's > account deleted, then rcurl and md, to name only two prominent and > beloved Grexers, would've been deleted ages ago. Now keesan, read very carefully this time...
Sindi, I have found that the New England sense of humor occasionally doesn't work so well out here among the gentiles. Don't get discouraged.
For those who don't have a good understanding of what a "New England sense of humor" might entail, probably the most famous example would be Penn Gillette (he's the one who talks -- a lot.)
They put tomatoes in their jokes.
<---- still clueless.
albaugh assumes everyone is dumb. don't feed the troll.
Spoken like a good little trole.
Yeah, Penn Jillette -- note correct spelling -- might have it. Bobby
and Peter Farrelly are said to have it. I think Mark Twain developed it
after he moved to Hartford. ("I do hope it stops raining, Mr
Twain." "It usually does.") Annoying as hell, if you ask me.
[btw, I believe it's New Yorkers who put tomatoes in their jokes.]
re #34 Yes, Manhattan. Glad SOMEBODY caugh it.
My neighbor (also from New England) says tomahto.
neighbour
canadian boure.
Damn straight.
TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE
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