So let me get this straight. The staff refused to do the right thing and did not restore the vandalized items because their was a vote. But when there is a proposed vote on the Canadians, they decide to ignore that. I really want to know, is there an honest fellow among you?39 responses total.
As I said in party, you wouldn't recognise honesty if it kicked your bloody arse across the Potomac, jp2.
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support for bush increases .....
The difference between the two situations is that the items could be restored at any time, should that be what the membership wanted, but not removed again, should _that_ be what the membership wanted, while the vandals canNOT be cleaned up after later but can be restored at any time; the damage they did, if left for 24 days (two weeks for discussion and then ten days of votiing) would be beyond repair. But if the membership wants the damage restored, I'll quite willingly put it back. (Of course, I'd then resign from the staff and board, because grex would no longer be manageable or useable.) Your dishonesty lies in *knowing* this (you are too smart not to have realised it on your own) but pretending _not_ to be able to see it.
You know for a fact that it's against section 4.a. of the bylaws, gelinas.
You also know for a fact that you've repeatedly said you rely on what more experience staff members say, becasuse you're too incompetent to figure it out for yourself. You also know remmers has said this: #52 of 157: by John H. Remmers (remmers) on Mon, Mar 1, 2004 (12:09): Of course not. And I'd hope that Grex staff would take reasonable steps to correct any damage, intentional or otherwise, inflicted by anyone, staff or not. In fact, the staff does that all the time, mopping up after users who fill up the disk or do other harmful stuff. Having a staff member do a baddie like that took us by surprise. I'd like to think that the staff would have ultimately decided to do the right thing by way of correction. But remember that you are the person who decided to move right away to a member vote, effectively taking the decision out of the staff's hands. Ah HA! remmers, who's much more experience than you, knows Grex doesn't take action on pending member initiatives. Why did you lie?
That could have been directed at any staff member, including the new ex-staff cross and valerie. Where is your proof?
"But remember that you are the person who decided to move right away to a member vote, effectively taking the decision out of the staff's hands." is quite easily distilled to a general statement, and everything you say is quite quickly distilled to moronic.
Why is anybody posting responses to these people? You realize you're part of the problem if you do, right? Here's a clue: You don't have to act on or even think about anything posted by jp2, polytarp or their pseudos. There will be no consequences whatever if you simply forget all their items and put them on your twit list. Really. I promise. If you want to sic some investigators on them and get them in legal trouble, that's another matter. But if that's really what you're doing, you should know that engaging in any dialog with them at all is only going to weaken your case.
People posting serious and grave concerns isn't a problem, md.
Didn't say it was. ;-)
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(According to user atlantic, he's not even capable of handling UNIX! System being unuseable. SUURE).
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Try reading the statement in context.
Right. The quote from me above is definitely out of context. Reading a bit further down it that item, there's this: -- BEGIN QUOTE #129:62 by Kevin Albaugh (albaugh) on Tue, Mar 2, 2004 (14:20) While I can possibly buy the notion that once the motion was made staff was reticent to act on their own, I think the major reason for inaction is that this situation had never come up before, and it wasn't clear exactly what should be done or how & who to do it. If jp2 had known that the staff were ending deliberation once the motion was made, he could have said something like "the staff is free to do what it would have done had the motion not been made", and that to me would not have resulted in any inappropriate action having been taken. I.e. if the staff already had a policy of restoring mistakenly deleted items, then they would have proceded to do so, regardless of any motion being made to do so (and in fact not requiring such a motion). This all goes under the category of "live and learn". ---- #129:63 by saladman (salad) on Tue, Mar 2, 2004 (17:54) Yeah, learn that GreX sucks. ---- #129:64 by Joseph M Saul (jmsaul) on Tue, Mar 2, 2004 (21:37) So... the next time this happens, all that's necessary to prevent staff action to restore the items is for some random member to make a proposal in Coop? Are you sure that's the way you want it to work? ---- #129:65 by John H. Remmers (remmers) on Wed, Mar 3, 2004 (06:30) No, I hardly think we'd want it to work that way. Kevin's #62 is pretty close to my own thinking. -- END QUOTE That is, if there's a policy in place, merely entering a proposal to change it doesn't suspend it. Problem with the item deletions was that there wasn't a policy already in place.
There was no policy in place for dealing with vandals? Great! Well, jp2 has now entered one. You should thank him.
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Yes.
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We all know Grex mettes out punishment without and regard to morality, jp2.
Right, it punishes them by saying that they support free speech, and then deleting items en masse behind their back.
#18 is an interesting question. The page
http://cyberspace.org/local/grex/policy.html
answers some of it, and the pages
http://cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/grex-principles
and
http://cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/grex-limits
offer more information. Another good page to look at is
http://cyberspace.org/faq.html
In general, password files help crackers find usable loginids, which
provide targets. This is why many system administrators disabled the
SMTP VRFY and EXPN commands. In recent years, they've also taken to
disabling finger, for the same reason.
There is no good reason to post a password file anywhere in bbs, and it's
only possible use is to crackers. So I remove it.
Locking accounts is done to stop ongoing abuse, to prevent recurrence,
and to inspire the account owner to contact staff. An acknowledgement of
the error and an agreement to not repeat it (and not to find new errors
to perpetrate) is usually sufficient to get the account unlocked.
The strategies "many system administrators" (name one.) take to prevent "crackers" are, of course, only applicable to closed systems. Anyone who's going to be running around "cracking" Grex is going to be able to get its usable IDs real easy. There were VERY good reasons for posting the password file, and, even if there weren't, things don't need reasons to exist. Locking accounts in this case isn't going to prevent abuse in this case because there was none.
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re 23 I've had several accounts locked in the past, and _EVERY TIME_ that I've contacted staff, they've either said diddly to me on why they did it, or blamed it on polytarp.
Let's try to make this simple for you #%^&#%-heads, shall we: grex is showing that it is run in a fairly reasonable matter, with some things carried out seat of the pants, some by rule of thumb, some by hard & fast policy. Reasonable grexers accept this, are happy for generally reasonable people (staff) to make value judgments. Unreasonable people (you know who you are) simply try to waste a lot of everyone's time by engaging in these tiresome "meta" discussions instead of "true" grexing. Whine all you want to, bay at the moon in frustration. Nobody cares that your accounts are getting canceled - in fact they're quite pleased to see it happen. Type away if it amuses you. We just don't care. And we're happy the way things are run, thank you. For perhaps the first time ever a staff went rogue. But that has passed now, and reasonable people have gotten over it. You should try it sometime...
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re 27 >For perhaps the first time ever a staff went rogue. But that has passed now, and reasonable people have gotten over it. You should try it sometime... On that subject? Never. It was wrong, and it is still wrong.
Well tod, i consider myself a thinker, and I agree with albaugh. In the absence of supernatural abilities, one must do the best one can in the circumstances. That necessarily entails some ad-hoc filling in of the blanks, interpretation, and pragmatism. On the complacency note, though, right on.
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Nor did I say that you were.
Some people consider him a twit for asking questions, though.
DON"T FEED THE TITS!
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I was not aware that Kevin was on staff.
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Yeah, don't confuse me with that "evil" staff! :-) (I'm not worthy...)
TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE
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