I wonder if Grex might be a more enjoyable place to spend time if more of us used twit filters. The reasons I'm going to set one up go like this - I don't want to waste my online time looking a some of the vacuous stuff that's entered. Two, I don't feel I'm any more obligated to read or view every response entered here than I am to answer every single phone call or open every piece of mail I get. Three, if I don't see it I won't be tempted even a itsy, bitsy bit to respond. And that's a good thing. But if I don't know how to set one up then I'm betting lots of people don't know. So how is it done? Is the filter list private or world readable? Once it's setup is it easy to turn on and off? Edit the list? Does it slow down your session? Does the same filter work for both telnet, ssh and Backtalk? And then the most controversial question of all: is Grex at a point where we should make it easier for newusers by right from the get-go giving them filters (on by default) with instruction on how to turn it off, if desired? That last is a whopper change in philosophy, for sure. But I don't see a whole lot of new people joining our community and I have to wonder how much of it is due to our slow interface and how much of it might be due to the way we look to someone not already taken with our quirky ways. How would we administrate such a thing? Haven't a clue. But I thought it might be time to talk about it.95 responses total.
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Depending on the prose, yep, they just might.
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I'd like to have the source for the twit filter on GreX.
re 0 I volunteer for the twit administrator position.
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Re: #6 Yep.
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When I read Grex, I am usually reading it as a member, not as staff. Why shouldn't I have the same rights to use a twit filter as any other member. Isn't telling me that I can't just because I am staff just as much of a censorship as some of the other claims of censorship here? Why should it be anyone's business who I filter or not, don't I have the same rights to privacy as anyone else or does being staff make me a second class citizen with no privacy or rights? If that is the case, maybe I will have to re-think spending what little spare time I have doing unpaid work for this community. I pay my membership dues that same as any other member. I am first, and foremost, a member of the Grex community. My being on staff is secondary to that. If being on staff means that I have to give up my rights to privacy and to ignore twits... (No I don't run a twit file and, currently, have no intentions to do so. But I greatly resent the fact that it is felt that I shouldn't have to just because I am staff. What is next, telling me that I can't type "forget" on items that don't interest me, that I have to read every item in every conference just because I am staff?)
No one is entitled to be listened to. That's not something you can buy by becoming a member of Grex.
Anyone who really wants their words to be read should find a way to circumvent said filters.
(Not being a twit is a good way to start.)
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Re. 11: BEcause, as a Grex Staffist, you have an obligation to help its users.
Wow, it's amazing how few responses I'm seeing in this discussion. :)
Ok, since I have an obligation to always help Grex users with all problems, I will soon be showing up on your doorstep with printouts with every item and every response you have ever made on Grex under every user name you have used and showing them all to your parent(s)/guardian(s). I will then ask them to make sure you never have the wherewithal to login here again.
glenda, are you saying you have copies of things I've scribbled? I thought we went over this censor log thing already.
As someone who's primarily a backtalk user, twit filters are less than useful. Yes, backtalk does give you an option to ignore a user, but their responses still show up, along with a link to see the ignored text. It would be a bit more useful, IMHO, if it just completely skipped their responses.
Who says that I didn't make copies before you scribbled?
gkenda, if you're going to take the trouble to do this for polytarp, then please endore jp2's request of printing out everyone's responses and asking them if they want the items in which those responses occur to be deleted. Thanks.
Re #0: I've repeatedly published instructions for Russ's Very Own Twit Filter (you can call it RVOTF, a mouthful intentionally designed so that you won't want to use it often). Did you miss them? And regarding certain responses which I did not see (by design) but can guess at from the references to them: if you want to be treated like a human being, try acting like one.
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"Mentally skipping people of no interest" is what I've generally tried to do, and still do to a large extent. Now I do filter a couple of folks (a number of logins, but I think it's just two distinct people). I use Jon Zeeff's filtering program, augmented by a couple of Picospan aliases that make it easy to turn on and off. (It's off for this item.) Agora's much more pleasant now. Easy-to-maintain filters for party and write have been around for a long time. I think it would be appropriate and technically feasible to implement a similar one for bbs, such that all a user has to do is list the logins they want to filter in their ".noread" file, and have one command available to turn the filter on, another to turn if off. Everybody has a right to speak. Likewise, everybody has a right to choose who they're going to listen to.
No, I didn't miss your previous comments, Russ, but I wasn't tempted to filter at that point. I am now. I'm also not making the assumption that the twits are worse than before, it's just that I seem to be enjoying Grex less. And this looks like a nice low-key way to try to turn that around. It's not censorship, it's not moderated conferences, it's not verification. It's more like a remote control for a TV and I'm going to mute the obnoxious advertisements. How do I get to your filter, Russ? What filter do you use, Ken?
Using a computerised filter will make it too easy to include in your twist list people who should be corrected, as well as incorrigible pains in the ass.
The best way to correct twit behavior is to ignore it. I'm going to get real serious about doing that by using system tools. Maybe others will too. We'll see.
But how can you tell the difference, Jeff?
Hint: I think my definition of "twit" is somewhat more wide than yours or Mrs Remmers. I very rarely respond to the second category I gave, and when I do, it's usually in the form of a short and sarcastic comment.
Psst - Jeff - sarcastic comments encourage them. That's what they live for.
That's a good point. Thankyou. Wow, this conf is much more active than aggro, isn't it?
It's way more interesting.
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Personally, I dont use a twit filter. However, even as a board member, I dont think I have an obligation not to ignore certain users even if they are members. That might cost me some votes if I run for board again but I think I can live with that. I think it would be nice if we could make it easier for newusers to set up twit filters. Maybe offer them access to someone else's twit list since, naturally, a newuser would have no way to know who is a twit. On the other hand, who knows which users a particular newuser would find annoying?
Since I plan to become a member before the the next board election, I'll say that it won't affect my decision whether or not to vote for you.
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Yeah. It's hip, man. Far out.
All I had to do was type 'ignore' to use Valerie's twit filter program. Only problem with it is I need to keep a list of twits and enter ALL of them each time I run the program, instead of just adding new ones.
Just edit your .cfonce file. The list of users you're filtering is near the bottom.
however much you'll listen to me is debatable, because occassionally people like to generalize and don me with the "m-netters are evil, period" cap. but, maybe a few will find this insightful. it may come as no surprise that i find twit filters to be a pathetic escape mechanism, reminiscent of drinking when you're depressed, or eating uncountable pints of ice cream because somehow it drowns out your body's cry for better eating habits. it's a personal issue. having just a pinch of libertarianism in me, i'm inclined to say that everyone is entitled to *actively* engage in acitivites that he/she see best fit for him/herself. when soup posts dozens of items of worthless crap into serious and non-serious conferences, what happens is that i strengthen my capaciyt to *deal*, not to ignore. part of this is that it exercises the part of my being which is the capacity to *deal*. another part of it is the anomoly of positive contribution. although statistically we find that soup has posted in a ratio of, say 99:1 worthless:meaningful responses, we also find that those 1 in 99 responses are indeed meaningful, and are indeed a positive contribution to...whatever, be it higher social thoughf, hobbyist computing, or some other unexpected fork of mainstream zombie culture. now, let's assume that *all* responses by soup have been filtered. no exceptions. all are filtered, with extreme prejudice. who loses out? you ca argue that soup loses out because of some crack-ass crying wolf analogy. or, you could argue that the active filterer has missed out, because he/she missed said positive contribution. soup posted in the unix conference on m-net about 100 lines of instructions, without CAPS, for how to install freebsd via ppp over a null modem cable from win95 (ftp install). why on earth would such a villain post such a positive contribution to hobbyist computing? it's because he's human, and our culture encouragees poitive contribution. i think it's also safe to assume that most people who've found small bbses in michigan are self-motivated and willing to work towards *some* goal, be it a positive contribution or simply indulgence in pranks. what's the end result? you can quite easily deal with a shot-lived period of what you might deem textual vulgarity (or even just graffiti), or, you can accept this as the current state of north america's youth and expect, as most mature adults do, that this period of graffiti is short-lived, and the only possible outcome is that you've dismissed the positive contributions that the poster has made to a community in exchange for short-lived relief from what is ultimately just a disagreement in taste. that said, we resume where i left off with entitlement of the individual to engage with discretion in acts that he/she sees most suite to his/her own taste. i can't possibly condemn, through whatever dialogue we engage in, one's choice to filter the material that he/she reads in any form. i can, however, condemn a community's willingness to offer blind, total filtering of a contributor's offerings, be they deemed meaningless, or even vulgar in their frequency, as a default for all inquisitors who find themselves logged on to grex, pondering their potential place as contributors to, or even just passive admirers of, a system which welcomes speech in so many forms.
>>slip<<
Yes.
plongeur posts way the hell more than I do.
he does. and he's also a bad example of positive contribution.
Mostly because he's better at the caps-type-nonsense style.
I'm a VERY positive contribution, but I'm afraid many of my most avid readers don't realise it's all part of a litarary experiment of grand proportions.
I didn't realize we were supposed to lump you in with such famous bbs researchers as sabre and deja.
So how do I set this up? Are there a number of different filters available?
To use the one keesan's talking about, type: twit user1 user2 user3 at the Ok: prompt.
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I think it would be a great idea if a twit filter which read a .noread file allowed specifications such as filter exceptions by item or conference (using except:) and filter limitations by item or conference (using only:) to be added to each filteree, something like this: jp2 except: agora40 2, 10-17, 100; aaypsi 12; coop rational naftee russ only: guitars 400 In this instance, users rational and naftee would be completely filtered. User jp2 would be filtered everywhere except items 2, 10-17 and 100 of agora40, item 12 of aaypsi and the entire coop conference. User russ would only be filtered from guitars conference item 400.
There's a guitars conference?
If there were, I'd probably filter Russ in all of it. :)
rotflmao.
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How long before someone brings up a comparison between twit filters and spam filters? Whoops, guess I just did. Here's my attempt at an analogy: I go to public concerts, panel discussions, public group meetings at campuses and restaurants. Someone else (soon to be called a twit) jumps up and down at these various events attempting to gain my attention by acting in what obnoxious way seems to gain them the most reaction. Now some folks find it offensive that I want to somehow filter this person out and that I should instead find a way to "deal"? I "deal" just fine when it is the occasional grab for attention, but when it is persistent and in many many items, I tire easily. Guess that I'm just a bad person that way. :)
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Sindi's filter needs to be setup anew, with each session, I believe. I'd really appreciate if someone would walk me (and anyone else who is interested in trying this) though how to set it up so that my settings are automatically activated with each login.
No, it doesn't need to be "setup anew [what strange verbology]". See 50. Idiot.
My filter does not need to have anything done to it unless I want to add more names. Type 'ignore' at the main prompt and follow Valerie's instructions. You can also add names later, to the existing names, without using the 'ignore' script by 'pico -w .cfonce'. THe -w prevents pico from line wrapping because the last line needs to be all on one line. Add names before or after existing names of twits. You can look at my .cfonce, I think. Then the next time you login you will have a working twit filter. If you make any changes, you can activate the new filter by logging out and in again. (There is probably some command to do this without logging out and in by I don't know it). People have the freedom to write and publish anything they like, which does not mean that I am required to read all the books in the library, even if some of them refer directly to others that I have not read. I don't see any more reason to read all the responses in one item, than to read all items at grex. Some authors I just don't want to read. If you use 'ignore' every time you want to change your filter, .cfonce will keep growing longer, because every time it adds a few lines to the file which replace the previous ones.
(or she could've just followed my directions to do the same thing, but, haha, it's funny.)
It's a nice quick and dirty program. All info is stored in the .cfonce, so it's readable, but that's fine by me. Responses by those I'm filtering are simply gone. Not even an item header announcing the content has been filtered, simply a skip in the number sequence. On this ssh session it doesn't seem to have slowed anything down. Cool. Was it Valerie who wrote this program? If so, thanks Valerie.
The command to put it into effect without logging out and back in is: source .cfonce
(One can also simply exit bbs and then re-enter bbs.)
re 57 Who said this had anything to do with wanting attention?!
welllllllllllllllllllll .... the slippery slope catches up ... starting with those .yeswrite and .nowrite files AGAINST WHICH i put up a finger-frothing protest, to no avail. expecially the vile .yeswrite file philosophy and implementation.
Using the ignore filter I still have to plow through a lot of items where the only response was by a twit. I see a blank, then hit Enter to continue. About 90% of the items that are presented to me are now blank, meaning the twits are pretty busy entering responses.
resp:48 deja's a famous bbs researcher? Hot damn, is that why she sent me some sorta welcome e-mail when I joined M-net back in '95 or so? (Yeah, I was at M-Net briefly before I came here.)
In case I wasn't clear, I was being facetious. Sabre and deja have both claimed, after being called on their obnoxious on-line behavior, that it was all just an "experiment." So what did she say in your "sorta welcome e-mail"?
Oh I'm sorry Tod, I should have said my poor attempt as analogy. I certainly have tried the diplomatic approach in saying "Your jumping up and down here at the outdoor concert isn't adding to the event, would you please consider some other method of interaction." It rarely works. I still try every now and then. It usually degenerates into "How about I just jump up and down in front of you a little bit to get your attention. Or maybe this little bit. You can see over me anyway, if you can just manage to ignore me, but you won't." And would salad like to suggest what else besides attention one might want?
Sure, maybe some of us try to have fun around here a little bit? Or is that completely illegal?
Why is being a pain in the butt fun
You SERIOUSLy think some of those extremely silly all-caps responses are THAT annoying? If you read some you might actually think they are funny. I'm serious.
I read them, I don't particularly think they are fun ny. Apparently my funny bone only works on certain things (like Terry Pratchett ...)
I could have written that (if there had been more typos).
re 75 C'mon, I can't be THAT bad..
The caps posts are kinda boring in themselves (sorry, kids). What I like about them is the way the capsters don't realize that I read them to *my* background music, not theirs. AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!! That applies to lots of posts, though, including mine.
Mm, aren't you ignoring your own advice?
The caps posts are great. I invented them.
AHAHAHAH No you didn't
I did.
Re 79: I gots no problem with them, although if the Grex box were sitting on *my* desk I admit I might want to permanently disconnect them from it, too. Whatever.
re 82 No, you didn't.
Here is an update on my twit-filtering experience. I'm a much happier Grexer. Such a little change but the benefit seems enormous. Mostly, I feel I'm doing what I can to totally ignore those needing attention with twitish behavior. It's kind like this, if a twit screamed in a forest, and nobody was there to hear it, would his 15 minutes would be over. Fusion philosophy, 101. ;-) I do wish such a thing were available for Backtalk users. I also wish it was a little easier to edit the twit list. But if you're someone who simply must respond, just one last time, thinking this time for sure what you'll say will make a difference... Consider letting it roll by unseen. Have that be your statement.
Backtalk does have such a feature, you tit.
What atlantic said, or would have said if he'd been a good person, was: "But Mary, BackTalk does have such a feature. Furthermore, you should see how nice the item lists in Agora and Coop look after you've done a mass 'forget' on all the items by jp2, polytarp and all their pseudos."
I feel so much happier now.
You feel like happy tits, eh?
resp:70 Of course. I just wasn't around long enough, I guess, to know deja had been obnoxious. I experienced M-net party, but that was about it. The e-mail was just some sort of generic welcome, I think. I totally wasn't expecting it and I guess that's why I remembered it some. But it was so long ago that I have no real idea what it said specifically.
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You don't know??
re #85 ...... ummmm any comment about the slippery slope ? #143.67 TS Taylor (tsty) Fri, Mar 12, 2004 (23:17): welllllllllllllllllllll .... the slippery slope catches up ... starting with those .yeswrite and .nowrite files AGAINST WHICH i put up a finger-frothing protest, to no avail. expecially the vile .yeswrite file philosophy and implementation.
Yummmm. Yeswrite.
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