Grex Oldcoop Conference

Item 143: Twit Filtering

Entered by mary on Wed Mar 10 22:45:51 2004:

I wonder if Grex might be a more enjoyable place to spend time if more of
us used twit filters.

The reasons I'm going to set one up go like this - I don't want to waste
my online time looking a some of the vacuous stuff that's entered.  Two, I
don't feel I'm any more obligated to read or view every response entered
here than I am to answer every single phone call or open every piece of
mail I get.  Three, if I don't see it I won't be tempted even a itsy,
bitsy bit to respond.  And that's a good thing.   

But if I don't know how to set one up then I'm betting lots of people
don't know.  So how is it done?  Is the filter list private or world
readable?  Once it's setup is it easy to turn on and off?  Edit the list? 
Does it slow down your session?  Does the same filter work for both
telnet, ssh and Backtalk?

And then the most controversial question of all: is Grex at a point
where we should make it easier for newusers by right from the
get-go giving them filters (on by default) with instruction on how
to turn it off, if desired?

That last is a whopper change in philosophy, for sure.  But I don't
see a whole lot of new people joining our community and I have to 
wonder how much of it is due to our slow interface and how much of
it might be due to the way we look to someone not already taken with
our quirky ways.  How would we administrate such a thing?  Haven't
a clue.  But I thought it might be time to talk about it.  
95 responses total.

#1 of 95 by tod on Wed Mar 10 23:18:22 2004:

This response has been erased.



#2 of 95 by mary on Wed Mar 10 23:26:46 2004:

Depending on the prose, yep, they just might.


#3 of 95 by jp2 on Wed Mar 10 23:28:48 2004:

This response has been erased.



#4 of 95 by salad on Wed Mar 10 23:37:03 2004:

I'd like to have the source for the twit filter on GreX.


#5 of 95 by salad on Wed Mar 10 23:38:05 2004:

re 0 I volunteer for the twit administrator position.


#6 of 95 by tod on Wed Mar 10 23:40:56 2004:

This response has been erased.



#7 of 95 by jp2 on Wed Mar 10 23:48:16 2004:

This response has been erased.



#8 of 95 by mary on Wed Mar 10 23:54:28 2004:

Re: #6  Yep.


#9 of 95 by tod on Wed Mar 10 23:59:24 2004:

This response has been erased.



#10 of 95 by jp2 on Thu Mar 11 00:01:00 2004:

This response has been erased.



#11 of 95 by glenda on Thu Mar 11 00:41:44 2004:

When I read Grex, I am usually reading it as a member, not as staff.  Why
shouldn't I have the same rights to use a twit filter as any other member.
Isn't telling me that I can't just because I am staff just as much of a
censorship as some of the other claims of censorship here?  Why should it be
anyone's business who I filter or not, don't I have the same rights to privacy
as anyone else or does being staff make me a second class citizen with no
privacy or rights?  If that is the case, maybe I will have to re-think
spending what little spare time I have doing unpaid work for this community.

I pay my membership dues that same as any other member.  I am first, and
foremost, a member of the Grex community.  My being on staff is secondary to
that.  If being on staff means that I have to give up my rights to privacy
and to ignore twits...

(No I don't run a twit file and, currently, have no intentions to do so.  But
I greatly resent the fact that it is felt that I shouldn't have to just
because I am staff.  What is next, telling me that I can't type "forget" on
items that don't interest me, that I have to read every item in every
conference just because I am staff?)


#12 of 95 by aruba on Thu Mar 11 00:51:29 2004:

No one is entitled to be listened to.  That's not something you can buy by
becoming a member of Grex.


#13 of 95 by salad on Thu Mar 11 00:56:54 2004:

Anyone who really wants their words to be read should find a way to circumvent
said filters.


#14 of 95 by gelinas on Thu Mar 11 00:58:49 2004:

(Not being a twit is a good way to start.)


#15 of 95 by jp2 on Thu Mar 11 01:18:20 2004:

This response has been erased.



#16 of 95 by rational on Thu Mar 11 01:26:55 2004:

Re. 11:  BEcause, as a Grex Staffist, you have an obligation to help its
users.


#17 of 95 by krj on Thu Mar 11 02:31:21 2004:

Wow, it's amazing how few responses I'm seeing in this discussion.  :)


#18 of 95 by glenda on Thu Mar 11 02:38:16 2004:

Ok, since I have an obligation to always help Grex users with all problems,
I will soon be showing up on your doorstep with printouts with every item and
every response you have ever made on Grex under every user name you have used
and showing them all to your parent(s)/guardian(s).  I will then ask them to
make sure you never have the wherewithal to login here again.


#19 of 95 by rational on Thu Mar 11 03:12:41 2004:

glenda, are you saying you have copies of things I've scribbled?  I thought
we went over this censor log thing already.


#20 of 95 by ea on Thu Mar 11 03:20:25 2004:

As someone who's primarily a backtalk user, twit filters are less than
useful.  Yes, backtalk does give you an option to ignore a user, but
their responses still show up, along with a link to see the ignored
text.  It would be a bit more useful, IMHO, if it just completely
skipped their responses.


#21 of 95 by glenda on Thu Mar 11 03:46:50 2004:

Who says that I didn't make copies before you scribbled?


#22 of 95 by salad on Thu Mar 11 04:08:05 2004:

gkenda, if you're going to take the trouble to do this for polytarp,  then 
please endore jp2's request of printing out everyone's responses and asking
them if they want the items in which those responses occur to be deleted.
Thanks.


#23 of 95 by russ on Thu Mar 11 05:23:22 2004:

Re #0:  I've repeatedly published instructions for Russ's Very Own
Twit Filter (you can call it RVOTF, a mouthful intentionally designed
so that you won't want to use it often).  Did you miss them?

And regarding certain responses which I did not see (by design)
but can guess at from the references to them:  if you want to
be treated like a human being, try acting like one.


#24 of 95 by jp2 on Thu Mar 11 11:24:57 2004:

This response has been erased.



#25 of 95 by remmers on Thu Mar 11 12:23:12 2004:

"Mentally skipping people of no interest" is what I've generally
tried to do, and still do to a large extent.  Now I do filter a
couple of folks (a number of logins, but I think it's just two
distinct people).  I use Jon Zeeff's filtering program, augmented
by a couple of Picospan aliases that make it easy to turn on and
off.  (It's off for this item.)  Agora's much more pleasant now.

Easy-to-maintain filters for party and write have been around for a
long time.  I think it would be appropriate and technically feasible
to implement a similar one for bbs, such that all a user has to do is
list the logins they want to filter in their ".noread" file, and have
one command available to turn the filter on, another to turn if off.

Everybody has a right to speak.  Likewise, everybody has a right to
choose who they're going to listen to.


#26 of 95 by mary on Thu Mar 11 12:38:17 2004:

No, I didn't miss your previous comments, Russ, but I wasn't 
tempted to filter at that point.  I am now.  I'm also not
making the assumption that the twits are worse than before,
it's just that I seem to be enjoying Grex less.  And this
looks like a nice low-key way to try to turn that around.
It's not censorship, it's not moderated conferences, it's
not verification.  It's more like a remote control for a TV
and I'm going to mute the obnoxious advertisements.

How do I get to your filter, Russ?  What filter do you use, Ken?



#27 of 95 by twenex on Thu Mar 11 14:09:23 2004:

Using a computerised filter will make it too easy to include in your twist
list people who should be corrected, as well as incorrigible pains in the ass.


#28 of 95 by mary on Thu Mar 11 14:39:36 2004:

The best way to correct twit behavior is to ignore it.  I'm going to 
get real serious about doing that by using system tools.

Maybe others will too.  We'll see.


#29 of 95 by anderyn on Thu Mar 11 14:50:09 2004:

But how can you tell the difference, Jeff?


#30 of 95 by twenex on Thu Mar 11 14:52:42 2004:

Hint: I think my definition of "twit" is somewhat more wide than yours or Mrs
Remmers. I very rarely respond to the second category I gave, and when I do,
it's usually in the form of a short and sarcastic comment.


#31 of 95 by aruba on Thu Mar 11 14:54:51 2004:

Psst - Jeff - sarcastic comments encourage them.  That's what they live for.


#32 of 95 by twenex on Thu Mar 11 14:56:24 2004:

That's a good point. Thankyou.

Wow, this conf is much more active than aggro, isn't it?


#33 of 95 by salad on Thu Mar 11 15:09:24 2004:

It's way more interesting.


#34 of 95 by tod on Thu Mar 11 16:19:05 2004:

This response has been erased.



#35 of 95 by slynne on Thu Mar 11 17:10:54 2004:

Personally, I dont use a twit filter. 

However, even as a board member, I dont think I have an obligation not 
to ignore certain users even if they are members. That might cost me 
some votes if I run for board again but I think I can live with that.

I think it would be nice if we could make it easier for newusers to set 
up twit filters. Maybe offer them access to someone else's twit list 
since, naturally, a newuser would have no way to know who is a twit. On 
the other hand, who knows which users a particular newuser would find 
annoying?


#36 of 95 by twenex on Thu Mar 11 17:16:02 2004:

Since I plan to become a member before the the next board election, I'll say
that it won't affect my decision whether or not to vote for you.


#37 of 95 by tod on Thu Mar 11 17:57:49 2004:

This response has been erased.



#38 of 95 by twenex on Thu Mar 11 17:58:42 2004:

Yeah. It's hip, man. Far out.


#39 of 95 by keesan on Fri Mar 12 03:16:50 2004:

All I had to do was type 'ignore' to use Valerie's twit filter program.  Only
problem with it is I need to keep a list of twits and enter ALL of them each
time I run the program, instead of just adding new ones.  


#40 of 95 by rational on Fri Mar 12 04:33:36 2004:

Just edit your .cfonce file.  The list of users you're filtering is near the
bottom.


#41 of 95 by styles on Fri Mar 12 05:14:18 2004:

however much you'll listen to me is debatable, because occassionally people
like to generalize and don me with the "m-netters are evil, period" cap.  but,
maybe a few will find this insightful.

it may come as no surprise that i find twit filters to be a pathetic escape
mechanism, reminiscent of drinking when you're depressed, or eating
uncountable pints of ice cream because somehow it drowns out your body's cry
for better eating habits.  it's a personal issue.  having just a pinch of
libertarianism in me, i'm inclined to say that everyone is entitled to
*actively* engage in acitivites that he/she see best fit for him/herself.

when soup posts dozens of items of worthless crap into serious and non-serious
conferences, what happens is that i strengthen my capaciyt to *deal*, not to
ignore.  part of this is that it exercises the part of my being which is the
capacity to *deal*.  another part of it is the anomoly of positive
contribution.  although statistically we find that soup has posted in a ratio
of, say 99:1 worthless:meaningful responses, we also find that those 1 in 99
responses are indeed meaningful, and are indeed a positive contribution
to...whatever, be it higher social thoughf, hobbyist computing, or some other
unexpected fork of mainstream zombie culture.  now, let's assume that *all*
responses by soup have been filtered.  no exceptions.  all are filtered, with
extreme prejudice.  who loses out?  you ca argue that soup loses out because
of some crack-ass crying wolf analogy.  or, you could argue that the active
filterer has missed out, because he/she missed said positive contribution.
soup posted in the unix conference on m-net about 100 lines of instructions,
without CAPS, for how to install freebsd via ppp over a null modem cable from
win95 (ftp install).  why on earth would such a villain post such a positive
contribution to hobbyist computing?  it's because he's human, and our culture
encouragees poitive contribution.  i think it's also safe to assume that most
people who've found small bbses in michigan are self-motivated and willing
to work towards *some* goal, be it a positive contribution or simply
indulgence in pranks.  what's the end result?  you can quite easily deal with
a shot-lived period of what you might deem textual vulgarity (or even just
graffiti), or, you can accept this as the current state of north america's
youth and expect, as most mature adults do, that this period of graffiti is
short-lived, and the only possible outcome is that you've dismissed the
positive contributions that the poster has made to a community in exchange
for short-lived relief from what is ultimately just a disagreement in taste.

that said, we resume where i left off with entitlement of the individual to
engage with discretion in acts that he/she sees most suite to his/her own
taste.  i can't possibly condemn, through whatever dialogue we engage in,
one's choice to filter the material that he/she reads in any form.  i can,
however, condemn a community's willingness to offer blind, total filtering
of a contributor's offerings, be they deemed meaningless, or even vulgar in
their frequency, as a default for all inquisitors who find themselves logged
on to grex, pondering their potential place as contributors to, or even
just passive admirers of, a system which welcomes speech in so many forms.



#42 of 95 by styles on Fri Mar 12 05:14:33 2004:

>>slip<<


#43 of 95 by twenex on Fri Mar 12 05:17:06 2004:

Yes.


#44 of 95 by salad on Fri Mar 12 05:41:33 2004:

plongeur posts way the hell more than I do.


#45 of 95 by styles on Fri Mar 12 05:43:26 2004:

he does.  and he's also a bad example of positive contribution.


#46 of 95 by salad on Fri Mar 12 05:44:53 2004:

Mostly because he's better at the caps-type-nonsense style.


#47 of 95 by rational on Fri Mar 12 06:27:56 2004:

I'm a VERY positive contribution, but I'm afraid many of my most avid readers
don't realise it's all part of a litarary experiment of grand proportions.


#48 of 95 by cyklone on Fri Mar 12 13:32:42 2004:

I didn't realize we were supposed to lump you in with such famous bbs
researchers as sabre and deja.


#49 of 95 by mary on Fri Mar 12 15:14:09 2004:

So how do I set this up?  Are there a number of different
filters available?  


#50 of 95 by rational on Fri Mar 12 15:21:40 2004:

To use the one keesan's talking about, type:  twit user1 user2 user3
at the Ok: prompt.


#51 of 95 by other on Fri Mar 12 15:57:02 2004:

This response has been erased.



#52 of 95 by other on Fri Mar 12 16:00:18 2004:

I think it would be a great idea if a twit filter which read a 
.noread file allowed specifications such as filter exceptions by 
item or conference (using except:) and filter limitations by item 
or conference (using only:) to be added to each filteree, something 
like this:

jp2 except: agora40 2, 10-17, 100; aaypsi 12; coop
rational
naftee
russ only: guitars 400

In this instance, users rational and naftee would be completely 
filtered.  User jp2 would be filtered everywhere except items 2, 
10-17 and 100 of agora40, item 12 of aaypsi and the entire coop 
conference.  User russ would only be filtered from guitars 
conference item 400.


#53 of 95 by twenex on Fri Mar 12 16:12:57 2004:

There's a guitars conference?


#54 of 95 by remmers on Fri Mar 12 16:14:11 2004:

If there were, I'd probably filter Russ in all of it.  :)


#55 of 95 by twenex on Fri Mar 12 16:17:47 2004:

rotflmao.


#56 of 95 by tod on Fri Mar 12 16:48:27 2004:

This response has been erased.



#57 of 95 by kip on Fri Mar 12 20:37:41 2004:

How long before someone brings up a comparison between twit filters and spam
filters?

Whoops, guess I just did.

Here's my attempt at an analogy:

I go to public concerts, panel discussions, public group meetings at campuses
and restaurants.  Someone else (soon to be called a twit) jumps up and down
at these various events attempting to gain my attention by acting in what
obnoxious way seems to gain them the most reaction.  

Now some folks find it offensive that I want to somehow filter this person
out and that I should instead find a way to "deal"?  

I "deal" just fine when it is the occasional grab for attention, but when it
is persistent and in many many items, I tire easily.  Guess that I'm just a
bad person that way.  :)


#58 of 95 by tod on Fri Mar 12 20:59:20 2004:

This response has been erased.



#59 of 95 by mary on Fri Mar 12 21:04:12 2004:

Sindi's filter needs to be setup anew, with each session, I believe.

I'd really appreciate if someone would walk me (and anyone else who
is interested in trying this) though how to set it up so that 
my settings are automatically activated with each login.



#60 of 95 by rational on Fri Mar 12 21:12:41 2004:

No, it doesn't need to be "setup anew [what strange verbology]".  See 50. 
Idiot.


#61 of 95 by keesan on Fri Mar 12 22:02:20 2004:

My filter does not need to have anything done to it unless I want to add more
names.  Type 'ignore' at the main prompt and follow Valerie's instructions.
You can also add names later, to the existing names, without using the
'ignore' script by 'pico -w .cfonce'.  THe -w prevents pico from line wrapping
because the last line needs to be all on one line.  Add names before or after
existing names of twits.  You can look at my .cfonce, I think.  Then the next
time you login you will have a working twit filter.  If you make any changes,
you can activate the new filter by logging out and in again.  (There is
probably some command to do this without logging out and in by I don't know
it).  

People have the freedom to write and publish anything they like, which does
not mean that I am required to read all the books in the library, even if some
of them refer directly to others that I have not read.  I don't see any more
reason to read all the responses in one item, than to read all items at grex.
Some authors I just don't want to read.

If you use 'ignore' every time you want to change your filter, .cfonce will
keep growing longer, because every time it adds a few lines to the file which
replace the previous ones.


#62 of 95 by rational on Fri Mar 12 23:54:54 2004:

(or she could've just followed my directions to do the same thing, but, haha,
it's funny.)


#63 of 95 by mary on Sat Mar 13 00:51:47 2004:

It's a nice quick and dirty program.  All info is stored in the .cfonce,
so it's readable, but that's fine by me.  Responses by those I'm filtering
are simply gone.  Not even an item header announcing the content has been
filtered, simply a skip in the number sequence. 

On this ssh session it doesn't seem to have slowed anything down.  

Cool.  Was it Valerie who wrote this program?  If so, thanks Valerie. 


#64 of 95 by glenda on Sat Mar 13 01:01:12 2004:

The command to put it into effect without logging out and back in is:
source .cfonce 


#65 of 95 by gelinas on Sat Mar 13 01:09:12 2004:

(One can also simply exit bbs and then re-enter bbs.)


#66 of 95 by salad on Sat Mar 13 01:20:46 2004:

re 57 Who said this had anything to do with wanting attention?!


#67 of 95 by tsty on Sat Mar 13 04:17:18 2004:

welllllllllllllllllllll .... the slippery slope catches up ...
  
starting with those   .yeswrite   and   .nowrite files  AGAINST WHICH i
put up a finger-frothing protest, to no avail.
  
expecially the vile .yeswrite file philosophy and implementation.
  


#68 of 95 by keesan on Sat Mar 13 04:43:00 2004:

Using the ignore filter I still have to plow through a lot of items where the
only response was by a twit.  I see a blank, then hit Enter to continue. 
About 90% of the items that are presented to me are now blank, meaning the
twits are pretty busy entering responses.  


#69 of 95 by jaklumen on Sat Mar 13 11:42:48 2004:

resp:48 deja's a famous bbs researcher?  Hot damn, is that why she sent 
me some sorta welcome e-mail when I joined M-net back in '95 or so? 
(Yeah, I was at M-Net briefly before I came here.)


#70 of 95 by cyklone on Sat Mar 13 13:31:11 2004:

In case I wasn't clear, I was being facetious. Sabre and deja have both
claimed, after being called on their obnoxious on-line behavior, that it was
all just an "experiment." So what did she say in your "sorta welcome e-mail"?


#71 of 95 by kip on Sat Mar 13 16:41:46 2004:

Oh I'm sorry Tod, I should have said my poor attempt as analogy.  I certainly
have tried the diplomatic approach in saying "Your jumping up and down here
at the outdoor concert isn't adding to the event, would you please consider
some other method of interaction."  It rarely works.  I still try every now
and then.  It usually degenerates into "How about I just jump up and down in
front of you a little bit to get your attention.  Or maybe this little bit.
You can see over me anyway, if you can just manage to ignore me, but you
won't."

And would salad like to suggest what else besides attention one might want?


#72 of 95 by salad on Sat Mar 13 19:48:05 2004:

Sure, maybe some of us try to have fun around here a little bit?  Or is that
completely illegal?


#73 of 95 by anderyn on Sat Mar 13 20:30:57 2004:

Why is being a pain in the butt fun


#74 of 95 by salad on Sun Mar 14 02:08:12 2004:

You SERIOUSLy think some of those extremely silly all-caps responses are THAT
annoying? If you read some you might actually think they are funny.  I'm
serious.


#75 of 95 by anderyn on Sun Mar 14 05:16:17 2004:

I read them, I don't particularly think they are fun ny. Apparently my funny
bone only works on certain things (like Terry Pratchett ...)


#76 of 95 by twenex on Sun Mar 14 13:42:48 2004:

I could have written that (if there had been more typos).


#77 of 95 by salad on Sun Mar 14 16:40:54 2004:

re 75 C'mon, I can't be THAT bad..


#78 of 95 by md on Sun Mar 14 16:48:27 2004:

The caps posts are kinda boring in themselves (sorry, kids).  What I 
like about them is the way the capsters don't realize that I read them 
to *my* background music, not theirs.  AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!! That 
applies to lots of posts, though, including mine.  


#79 of 95 by twenex on Sun Mar 14 16:50:17 2004:

Mm, aren't you ignoring your own advice?


#80 of 95 by atlantic on Sun Mar 14 16:54:32 2004:

The caps posts are great.  I invented them.


#81 of 95 by salad on Sun Mar 14 17:08:06 2004:

AHAHAHAH No you didn't


#82 of 95 by atlantic on Sun Mar 14 17:10:38 2004:

I did.


#83 of 95 by md on Sun Mar 14 17:24:27 2004:

Re 79: I gots no problem with them, although if the Grex box were 
sitting on *my* desk I admit I might want to permanently disconnect 
them from it, too.  Whatever.


#84 of 95 by salad on Sun Mar 14 18:17:25 2004:

re 82 No, you didn't.


#85 of 95 by mary on Sun Mar 14 19:48:10 2004:

Here is an update on my twit-filtering experience.

I'm a much happier Grexer. Such a little change but the benefit seems
enormous.  Mostly, I feel I'm doing what I can to totally ignore those
needing attention with twitish behavior.  It's kind like this, if a twit
screamed in a forest, and nobody was there to hear it, would his 15
minutes would be over.  Fusion philosophy, 101. ;-) 

I do wish such a thing were available for Backtalk users.  I also
wish it was a little easier to edit the twit list.

But if you're someone who simply must respond, just one last time,
thinking this time for sure what you'll say will make a difference...
Consider letting it roll by unseen.  Have that be your statement.


#86 of 95 by atlantic on Sun Mar 14 19:53:00 2004:

Backtalk does have such a feature, you tit.


#87 of 95 by md on Mon Mar 15 01:18:09 2004:

What atlantic said, or would have said if he'd been a good person, 
was: "But Mary, BackTalk does have such a feature.  Furthermore, you 
should see how nice the item lists in Agora and Coop look after you've 
done a mass 'forget' on all the items by jp2, polytarp and all their 
pseudos."


#88 of 95 by anderyn on Mon Mar 15 04:03:27 2004:

I feel so much happier now. 


#89 of 95 by salad on Mon Mar 15 04:53:27 2004:

You feel like happy tits, eh?


#90 of 95 by jaklumen on Mon Mar 15 08:42:08 2004:

resp:70 Of course.  I just wasn't around long enough, I guess, to know 
deja had been obnoxious.  I experienced M-net party, but that was about 
it.  The e-mail was just some sort of generic welcome, I think.  I 
totally wasn't expecting it and I guess that's why I remembered it 
some.  But it was so long ago that I have no real idea what it said 
specifically.


#91 of 95 by tod on Mon Mar 15 16:07:37 2004:

This response has been erased.



#92 of 95 by md on Tue Mar 16 02:50:21 2004:

You don't know??


#93 of 95 by tsty on Tue Mar 16 11:12:06 2004:

re #85 ...... ummmm any comment about the slippery slope ?
  


#143.67 TS Taylor (tsty) Fri, Mar 12, 2004 (23:17):
 welllllllllllllllllllll .... the slippery slope catches up ...

 starting with those   .yeswrite   and   .nowrite files  AGAINST WHICH i
 put up a finger-frothing protest, to no avail.

 expecially the vile .yeswrite file philosophy and implementation.



#94 of 95 by twenex on Tue Mar 16 11:22:45 2004:

Yummmm. Yeswrite.


#95 of 95 by jesuit on Wed May 17 02:14:57 2006:

TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE


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