Wait, I have a question. If I entered an item while drunk, and wanted it removed afterwards, would the staff remove the item? Jep's "not in his right mind" claim is a total fiction created so he is not required to justify his actions (unless he were institutionalized for a mental disorder, at the time, but I strongly suspect someone might have mentioned that by now), but intoxication is equivalent to incapacitation. How would the staff react? What if a recovering alcoholic wanted all their items from their alcoholic phase purged? After all, alcoholism is a disease.46 responses total.
Please give these lame hypotheticals a rest.
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Ask me on Tuesday.
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While I do think jp is stretching with the analogy between intoxication and mental incompetence, I hope that does not divert people from considering what I have said elsewhere about a hypothetical item about recovery from addiction. Such an item would have tremendous potential in terms of providing valuable insights for other addicts (or to friends and family of addicts). I suggest that we should not permit censorship that would remove such items simply because the original posting addict has second thoughts about allowing the items to remain. The proper solution is to allow the original addict to remove his/her own words and leave the rest to provide whatever assistance other addicts, friends of addicts, family of addicts, etc. might be able to glean for their own benefit. That is all I am asking people to do with jep's items.
The proper solution is to wait to see how the vote comes out, to find out what it tells us about current thinking.
My answer is: if Jamie entered a bunch of items and responses he later wanted removed because they were embarrassing to his older saner self, I would definitely vote not to remove the items. In fact, just in case a majority might eventually vote to remove them, I would copy them and save them so I could quote my favorite passages in appropriate places.
If you are saying the proper solution is whatever the grex voters decide, then I beg to differ. If they vote in favor of reinstatement, then yes, they will have found the proper solution because it balances jep's rights to control his own words with the rights of others to control theirs. It will also balance jep's rights to deny access to certain information with the rights of others to provide and/or access helpful information. The unfortunate fact that jep cannot deny access to 100% of the information about him is merely a byproduct of his previous decision to post publicly. He was warned and he continued. Therefore, any incidental burden (a burden which jep has not really even demonstrated to date) fairly falls on him and should not be borne by innocent posters and others who may benefit from whatever words may remain. If grex votes in favor of jep's request, that will not be a proper solution. Instead it will simply prove grex does not believe in free and uncensored speech. It will prove grex does not really care about providing information to others in need, even after JEP HIMSELF said he wished such information were available to him. It will prove grex has no compassion for strangers or newbies, but only for favored insiders. As such, it will not be a proper solution; it will merely prove grex has no core principles that cannot be trumped by the desire to do personal favors for favored persons.
And that makes Grex different from you how?
You are ignoring that a "proper solution" may simply be a "proper solution _for grex_." That you disagree with the proper solution for grex is no more relevant than that I disagree with the proper solution for grex. However, *until* the decision is rendered, you cannot know whether you disagree with it. I think we really should wait to see how the vote comes out before indulging in further polemic.
It looks like #7 snuck in when I was replying to #6. However, my answer to #9 would be that I still try to remain consistent with my principles, even when friends are involved. Maybe I'm just different that way. I remember a gf asking me what was important to me in a woman and I said something like "morals" or "character." She was quite surprised.
Oh please.
As twinkie would say: True story
Great, now I have to parody *you* in Agora.
Cool!
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It's good to know that removing a few pieces of years-old text are the same as killing millions of people.
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Grex is not a government, stupid, it's a privately owned bbs. They don't even have a contract with you, written or implied. The only thing anybody can try and catch them on is the "free speech on the Internet" thing, and even that is enforceable and revokable at their whim. If I point to the "free speech on the Internet" statement and splutter that they've violated it, they can (and should if they're honest, in my opinion) simply shrug and ignore me.
<they should also delete that statement if the items are not restored>
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Re resp:8: Paraphrased: "I'm smarter and more ideologically pure than all of you, so if you vote against me you're all idiots." Clearly, we should give up this whole voting thing and just make cyclone Dictator of Grex.
You could do worse.
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I was thinking of some of Grex's home-grown victims of estrogen poisoning, Right Man Syndrome, Right Wing Syndrome, Liberal Humanist Fabulosity, and other afflictions I find annoying. You aren't even on the map.
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Re #22: Whoa, cowboy! Aren't you the one who decried the name-calling and the slide away from rationality and calm discussion? Howzabout a little consistency then, OK? Please re-read #8 and tell me what portions of my *reasoning* you disagree with. PS: Thanks md!
P.S. Johnny has a question too! :-)
I thought you didn't care what polytarp/willcome posted.
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He needs his blue overalls; the uniform of the Party.
resp:25 I love it!
And we got to Godwin's Law, too. I knew we would sometime soon.
Actually we were there a while ago.
I had to look up Godwin's Law. Computer geek jargon, apparently. Please don't use any more computer geek jargon I have to look up. Thank you.
You're welcome!
HEY does that make cyklone a COMPUTER GEEK? IGORV SAID SO!
Re resp:27: From resp:8: "If you are saying the proper solution is whatever the grex voters decide, then I beg to differ. If they vote in favor of reinstatement, then yes..." In other words, your opinion is all that matters, not the opinion of the voters. You're saying that if the voters decide the way you don't personally agree with, they're all wrong. I stand by how I characterized your post in resp:22.
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Close, but no cigar. You are challenging my conclusion, not my reasoning, as requested in #27. Care to try again? And what about your claim that name-calling is inappropriate? Having a hard time living up to your standards?
re 38 In a trial, if DNA evidence comes in that aquits the prisoner, than clearly all the jury were wrong, weren't they?
Re resp:40: Show where I called you a name. You called jep a 'pussy'. I haven't stooped to that level.
Ummm, how about "Dictator of Grex"? PS: you are still ducking the substantive issue I asked you to address.
NOW YOU'RE CALLING HIM A DUCK. CAN'T YOU ASSHOLES BE NICE FOR A CHANGE?
YEAH< ASSHOLES~
TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE
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