Here is the treasurer's report on Cyberspace Communications, Inc. finances
through January 31st, 2004.
Beginning Balance $4,390.70
Credits $330.00 Member contributions
$5.00 Repayment of bounced check fee
$1.00 Miscellaneous donations
$2.00 Sale of a Grex handbook
$1.52 Interest on our savings account
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$339.52
Debits $80.41 Pumpkin Rent for February
$45.97 Electricity for January
$13.71 Phone Bill (see below)
$135.00 DSL January 15 through February 15
$6.48 Paypal fees (income = $182)
$38.00 Renewal of P.O. Box
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$319.57
Ending Balance $4,410.65
Our current balance breaks down as follows:
$4,164.11 General Fund
$163.99 Silly Hat Fund
$60.00 Spare Parts Fund
$22.55 Infrastructure Fund
The money is distributed like this:
$1,038.88 Checking account
$3,371.77 Savings account earning 0.65% interest annually
We had one new member (scheidr) in January. We are currently at 84
members, 78 of whom are paid through at least February 15th. (The
others expired recently and are in a grace period.)
Notes:
- It was a good month for Grex!
- This month's phone charges totalled $90.88. We had a credit
leftover from the change from centrex to POTS lines, which we have now
used up. So next month's bill will be back to normal.
- I filled out Grex's personal property tax return and turned it in at
City Hall on Friday the 30th. For a summary see
http://www.cyberspace.org/~invent/reportsummary.cgi?repyear=2003&showest=1
I estimate the taxes we'll pay this year at $143, up from $81 last
year. (We bought NextGrex in 2003.) My estimate could be off,
though, depending on what the Assessor does.
- A $12 check that I deposited in November came back unpaid. There is
a $5 penalty when that happens. The person who bounced the check has
replaced it (with cash) and paid the fee.
- Our electricity bill is going to go up a lot, as of January 1st,
because both OldGrex and NextGrex are up and running. Scott and I
measured the current in the Pumpkin at 13.25 Amps, up from 5.5 amps in
2001 (the last time we measured it). I haven't changed the amount
we're paying yet, because Kip is going to check a power meter out of
the library as soon as one comes back, and hopefully get a more
accurate measurement of just how much juice we're using. When he
gives me that number, I'll write a letter to our landlord explaining
the situation, and include payment for the difference in January.
Thanks to everyone who contributed in January:
bruin, mbroggy, mbusse, mudlark, robh, scheidr, and one person who
asked to remain anonymous.
If you or your institution would like to become a member of Grex, it
only costs $6/month or $60/year. Send money to:
Cyberspace Communications
P. O. Box 4432
Ann Arbor, MI 48106-4432
If you pay by cash or money order, please include a photocopy of some
form of ID. I can't add you to the rolls without ID. (If you pay
with a personal check that has your name pre-printed on it, we
consider that a good enough ID.) Type !support or see
http://www.cyberspace.org/member.html for more info.
155 responses total.
Who donated the $1?
Re 1: That would be me, I think. Why? For the Hek of it. (And because I didn't have change.)
i'm ejaculating on your tits.
Yesterday two longtime Grex members told me they won't be renewing their memberships as a result of the recent debate. Not because of the outcome, but because of the process.
I'm almost certain I won't be renewing, either. This isn't a threat, or a promise --- just a heads-up. It's a pity, and something that I've been wrestling with since I first heard about valerie's excision of entire discussion items. I've received a lot of help from a good chunk of grex's members in the past, and I've tried to do what I could to return the favour in support of the system. I simply don't see the point, anymore.
It should be the outcome.
Wow. I guess I feel a little sad that people are ready to give up on grex over this. I cant say that I was happy about all of this business but I wasnt really expecting people to actually bail over it.
I guess we can score two more points for the M-Netters in their attempt to destroy Grex.
I don't think it's the actual issue so much as the vitriol and keats of text that were written with a lot of mean-spiritedness (mostly on one side, in my opinion) -- I certainly am much less interested in participating if all my efforts are going to garner are insults and diatribes about "favoring favorite people". I suspect that others feel the same way, even if all they're doing is reading such things.
I really hope that people will reconsider leaving Grex. I value this community enough that I'm willing to consider new ways of operating, if it helps maintain the community.
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I kind of remember when similar things starting going on over on Mnet but with different "troublemakers". People got upset and left...mostly to come here. What happened after that is that over time, there were fewer and fewer interesting people. There have always been folks who flame each other online and who try to cause problems. But when all the interesting people have left, then what is left? I cant blame anyone for not wanting to put up with it but once the more interesting people start leaving, things get pretty boring pretty fast. FWIW, I am still an "mnetter" although I certainly have no desire to do anything to hurt grex.
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I'm sure it was your behaviour that caused it.
Re 11 - If Fascism had won on Grex, you wouldn't still be here. Gods, how I wish fascism had won on Grex...
Re. 14: Is that why you started running party bots you were specifically told not to run, and then when you were stopped, you cursed and vitrioled in the system problems item?
Re: #4: What aspects of "the process" are what these people say will be having them leave? The proposals (which is the grex defined way to enact grass roots system changes)? The discussions? The name-calling? I would like to know what was so bad about "the process", whatever that means.
re 19 We could post excerpts!
Re resp:12: Sure, anyone is welcome on M-Net. Making trouble is what M-Net is all about. But on Grex people occasionally want to do stuff other than gaming the system and talking about shitdicks.
Welcome to the
February General Conference
fairwitnesses: jerryr
slynne
First item 1, last 66
Ok: find shitdick
No matches found.
Welcome to the
January General Conference
fairwitnesses: jerryr
slynne
First item 1, last 127
Ok: find shitdick
#3.259 dc;fu (ric)
1: TWILA that I allowed shitdicks.com to expire.
#3.265 www.bush2004.com (tonster)
3: ratbert:/var/www/turnover # whois shitdicks.com
30: Domain Name: SHITDICKS.COM
63: ratbert:/var/www/turnover # host -t ns shitdicks.com
64: shitdicks.com name server ns1.nameresolve.com.
65: shitdicks.com name server ns2.nameresolve.com.
66: shitdicks.com name server ns3.nameresolve.com.
67: shitdicks.com name server ns4.nameresolve.com.
Welcome to the
December General Conference
fairwitnesses: jerryr
slynne
First item 1, last 100
Ok: find shitdick
#36.28 Twinkie (twinkie)
4: Dustin, it's really high time that you ate a bag of shitdicks.
Yeah the focus has changed .
Yeah. twinkie's the only one who still talks about shitdicks; even ric's given it up.
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O, sorry: I meant in the context of M-Net. Grex -- gull included -- talks more about shitdicks than M-Net does.
Indeed, it's almost as if shitdicks is the only concept they've imparted from m-net culture.
Funny, I was just thinking how our bbs looks far too much like M-Net's these days...
re#8 gull... who are these mysterious mnetters that you think are trying to ruin grex?
I'll fess up: The only reason I spend so much time trying to aid, literate, and help Grex is because I want to ruin it.
Given that a lot of people maintain accounts on both systems, I'm not sure how one determines which among them are "M-Netters who also use Grex" and which are vice-versa. Or even why it matters.
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Ergo, due to all this opinionated speech floating around; GreX's bbs has become more like m-net's!
Re #20: Well, I can't truly speak for the users in question. But my understanding from what they told me is that the large quantity of bitterness, the harassing emails, the name-calling, and the lack of a sense that Grex is a community were the biggest problems. One person was finding the situation stressful enough that his/her physical health was suffering.
really?! her health was *suffering* because of people's behavior on a bbs? *rolls eyes* the person in question obviously has some sort of emotional disturbance REGARDLESS of what goes on around here.
I would tend to agree.
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I forgot one of my hats in my locker at school at STP, and I don't like the one I have at home. What does Cyberspace Communications suggest I do?
Yet another demonstration that some people take online communications seriously. There *are* people in the world (I'm one) who don't see a bbs as a place solely useful for trading insults.
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Yup. Resp:36 is pretty revealing of the M-Net attitude. "They're just pseudos, not real people. They don't have feelings."
Why would n't I take it seriously? I am talking to you and you are talking to me. Just because it's not in person doesn't mean that I'm not involved in what I'm saying and what you're saying. It's as real as the conversation I just had with a workmate. If he said "shut up you old hag", I would be stressed and upset, so why shouldn't I be in this forum?
That's pretty much how I feel, too. You don't have to be emotionally disturbed to feel stress when someone yells at you, or at someone in the same room with you. That's what it has felt like for me over the past month.
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Yeah, like the m-netters arew 'immune' to feelings. Right.
The point you should take from #4, Jamie, is that to a lot of us this is not just a game, of logic or anything else. I don't really expect that to mean anything to you, but I have to say it anyway.
so gull again throws out the mysterious "m-net" like it is supposed to be an insult. Yet he is unable to provide names or reasons as to who this "insult" encompasses. He hasn't even bothered to define what a grexer is, other than he identifies himself as one. Gull, what makes a grexer? I've been on grex since it first opened to the public in ..what year was that.. 1991? I've been here just as long as many of you.
Iggy, if you're that bothered by inaccurate refences to "M-Netters" then perhaps you could do something about the inaccurate references "Grexers" from you, jp2, and others. As in "Grexers don't believe in free speech", etc.
Personally, I find it hard to understand how a person can make something like a bbs so important to themselves that when things like this happen, it makes them actually physically ill. And I say this as someone for whom online conferencing is very important. Sure there are people on Mnet and Grex who can upset me that much but they are all people I have real life relationships with. I worry about some of the people who are getting very upset about all of this. I wish there was something I could do to make everyone happy. You know, some kind of win-win solution. I *really* wish jep and valerie would have considered having the items restored with all of their posts removed as well as all the posts of people who would obviously have been very willing to give their permission. I think it is fair to acknowledge that some people are upset because their words have been deleted without their permission. It is fair to acknowledge that the sore loser game playing behavior of some of those people is upsetting other folks around here. But maybe the first thing we can do is stop all these "mnetters" and "grexers" remarks. It seems like when someone calls someone on Grex an "mnetter" it is meant as some kind of insult but also meant to illustrate that those people are outsiders and not very welcome here. Ditto for when people on Mnet start using "grexers" a lot.
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Re 50: Lynne, it's not the bbs. Repeat: It's NOT the bbs. It's the other people on the bbs that get some folks worked up and even ill. Imagine that about half the people you talked to on the phone were that rude. Would you just say "oh, it's just the phone, it's not reality"? How about face-to-face? What seems to be the big difference is that some of us view online communication to be just as real as the telephone, which is just as real as face-to-face. That you don't see it as real, to me, indicates that you are the one with some social shortcomings.
Haha. Scott, I work in tech support, half the people I talk to *are* that rude and I find myself thinking, "well, it's just the phone, not reality...they cant hit me, stab me, burn me with cigarettes, feed my dog klonopin or throw poop at me" *all* the time. Maybe working at ASH has just given me a different perspective.
I think slynne is missing the fact that to some people here, there are real friends of theirs that are involved, maybe even people they see in person on a regular basis. Not everyone here thinks of other BBS'ers as just text on the screen with no real person behind it. Saying "it's just a BBS, it shouldn't be that important to them" shortchanges the real friendships and real people that are involved. I really do think that this is a cultural difference between Grex and M-Net, and what we're seeing now may be a wrenching change where Grex's culture is going to be forced to become more impersonal, like M-Net's.
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I get it that real people are involved here. Honestly, if someone I knew in real life who I cared about were treating me like shit either here or anyplace else, it would upset me. But I dont get upset about people I dont know especially when it is online because I know that a person cant leap through their computer and harm me physically. And no one can harm me emotionally unless I let them.
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*makes boogie-boogie taunting face at slynne* Have I ruined your day yet?
Lynne, when you get rude tech support calls are you allowed to be as rude in return?
I guess I don't think there is anything that could - or should - be done to / with grex that would retain the people who say they are leaving due to the item killing kaper and its aftermath.
resp:60 - nope. And as it turns out, since they dont bother me, I find it very easy to be pleasant. I am also very very good at directing conversations in the way I want them to go. In my case at work, I can have people laughing by the end of the call. But, I have to admit that the main reason I am not rude back to those people is because my employer wouldnt like it and my employer *pays* me. resp:61 - I have to disagree. While I dont know who is leaving, I'll bet it is some of our more interesting people. Just so you all know, I dont think there is anything wrong with wanting an online community filled mostly with people who kind of know you and who are willing to be there to support you. I also understand that people want an open community where folks can wander in and be made to feel welcome. The problem though, is that if you have an open system, folks you might not want to feel welcome will come in too. If that part of it really bothers people, they very well may want to leave. I like the open system feel of this place, personally. I also like the sense of community. In fact, it means so much to me that I am not willing to leave here right now because doing so would just harm the community. I hope that anyone else who values that sense of community tries to stick it out with me. Ignore the folks who bother you. Use a twit filter if you must. But please please keep contributing here because *being here* is more important than even sending in money. (although naturally, I hope people will continue to be willing to do that too)
Disagree, then. Just what *is* it you think could / should be done to / with grex to retain / bring back those people? Kick out all the "trouble makers". Issue rose colored glasses?
I dont know. I would kind of like people to learn how to ignore "trouble makers". I would like people to realize that *they* are valuable to grex. Not because of any potential money they might send it either. Because each person here contributes something to someone. I would like to convince people to ignore the people whom they dont think contribute and focus on everyone else. I admit too that this is all a totally selfish desire of mine. I want people to stay because it makes my grex experience better.
Re 62: I'd suggest that you've gotten used to an unnatural and unhealthy type of social interaction. :(
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resp:65 Yes! That is just it. I have learned how to deal with unhealthy types of social interaction. It's a skill. And one I happen to like because it allows me to take more social risks than I might otherwise. I have my safe places where all the social interaction is safe and healthy and wonderful and all of that. I see grex as being more public than that. I share a lot here but I dont share everything because this is a place where jerks can come in. HOwever, I have met some of my closest friends online. People with whom I can have safe private conversations with. People I can share my deepest secrets and pain with. People I wouldnt have in my life if m-net/grex were closed systems. Those people are so important to me that I think it is worth ignoring a few jerks sometimes in order to keep the system open so some other really great person can come strolling into my life. You cant have the safe and secure utopia community *and* have an open system. You can have a pretty darn good community though. This is especially so if people are committed to it. This is what grex has right now and hopefully will continue to have.
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I dont like the idea of other people's words having been deleted without their permission. However, I dont see it happening again in the near future and frankly, I dont think anyone's words that were deleted are anything I will miss.
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the notion of "kicking out the trouble makers" is pretty risky because just whose definition do you use? Who would speak for all of grex and be the one to point fingers? Before you know it, someone will be pointing at YOU.
Hey, the GreX public did a pretty god job of kicking out two troublemakers: jep and valerie.
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Gawd; better call in some more m-netters to fill in the empty seats!
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:)
(Fixed dumb typo)
In all of the verbiage and nastiness on both sides, Lynne's said one of the
most valuable things I've ever read about BBSing:
I have learned how to deal with unhealthy
types of social interaction. It's a skill. And one I happen to like
because it allows me to take more social risks than I might otherwise.
You have four choices:
1. Leave
2. Close the BBS to "undesirables"
3. React to undesirable behavior with stress and hostility
4. Learn to deal with unhealthy types of social interaction in a healthy
manner
When I've said in the past that it's best to ignore system twits, I'm not
saying that you should learn to like them. They're going to be a part of
Grex unless you shut the doors. It's unavoidable -- you may manage to
teach or bully or scold some into changing their behavior, but there will
always be more. It's up to you whether you continue to allow their
presence to stress you out, or learn to handle them in a healthier way.
Wow. Thanks Joe. I agree with everything you have said in resp:78
this discussion has gone on longer than is comfortable for me.
i hope i don't get a tummyache because of it.
:(
Go Joe! Go Lynne! Thanks for articulating why I'm staying. I too wish I could "kick out" the people I perceive as "ruining" Grex. But I value Grex more than I dislike them. And I want other people to realize that there are quite a few of us who want to be in a community where healthy interactions are the -norm-.
huh.. i didn't get the same thing out of slynne and jmsaul that cmcgee appeared to. i thought they were saying it is much healthier to learn to deal with people rather than to kick everyone out so you can have a private sanctuary.
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I didn't read cmcgee's "I too" as referring to slynne and jmsaul. And *I too* applaud what they said. :)
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I have not kicked people out. I use tools to avoid having to deal with the messes they make, such as the ignore command, or fixseen when someone posts all over agora or scribbles all over agora. If everyone did this the vandals might get bored and go away.
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All that is fine, but it isn't about changing *grex* in any way - it's about people essentially developing thicker skins or the ilk. And that isn't something "grex" can do, other than perhaps posting a "warning" during newuser or other places. So, while people leaving grex because they were stressed out over the item killing kaper may be unfortunate, unless grex is to become a private members-only club where no mean / nasty people would ever show up, those as bailed, well "sorry to see you go, but..."
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I think that a warning about this being the internet, etc. might be appropriate. Seriously.
*I* can develop a thicker skin. What about the jerks who are also driving away new users, by entering abusive responses in party or Agora item 1?
i highly doubt new users are helpless, defenseless little bunnies that need someone charging in on a white horse and chainmail to protect them.
re91: i'll assume that you consider me to be one of *the jerks*
who are the newusers who i have driven away? i want names
scott. in fact i want names of any folks who have been
driven away by *the jerks*
That is not the point. If I were a potential user of grex, and the first and probably only thing I saw here was name-calling, I would go away.
Re 93: Easy enough. I'm not calling you one of the jerks-who-are-trying-to-drive-people-away. I'm referring more to polytarp. Although I'll certainly give you an honorary "jerk" for your pointless demand for essentially uncollectable data. ;)
I don't see any way that grex can remain "grex" and at the same time preclude jerky users.
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"Grex: Where The Weak Are Killed and Eaten."
"Grex: Doing Personal Favors For Favored Persons"
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So we do personal favors for favored persons. How do I get on the a-list? Enquiring minds want to know.
Founding a Grex and writing a great deal of its software, spending at least 5 years on the board and over 10 years on staff... yeah, good thing we got rid of that worthless valerie person.
Re #91: You have the same four choices about them, Scott. With the
additional note that you *could* restrict certain items or
conferences to "approved" users or "approved" posts while still
leaving the rest of the system open -- but those restricted areas
wouldn't really be very Grex-like. I suspect a lot of people
you value wouldn't be comfortable in moderated or restricted
places.
(I think you missed his point, Joe; or maybe he didn't express it very weil: how to keep new users who who are turned off by the 'jerks'?)
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What?
Re #101: It apparently involves claims of grievous injury resulting in Victim Identification.
Re #102: Nobody got rid of her. She got rid of herself. Everyone else
who was parodied is still here and actively participating.
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So who else *is* being parodied there, anyway?
As far as I can remember, Sindi, Rane, Bruce, Twila, Jaklumen, Mynxcat, and a few other people occasionally, including me and most of the parodists. Also Jan, now.
(what jmsaul said in #108)
Re. 111: there're many more.
Re 103: Nope, there are more than four choices. Choice #5 would be to convert them... we've done it before.
i wanna jerk
Re #114: Re-read my original post. Yes, you can convert them -- but you
can't convert them instantly, and there will always be more.
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When you write something intelligent. That's not going to happen anytime soon.
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riddance
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Re 109: I resent the implication that I couldn't fix the disk. I did fix the disk. I was up copying the data off a perfectly good disk so that it could be cannibalized for parts to fix the disk that had died. Kip did the actual cannibalization, so it was a group effort. It's been a week since the vote was over, and some minds are still spinning in a tight little circle: "Valerie is Satan. No free speech on Grex. Valerie is Satan. No free speech on Grex. Valerie is Satan. No free speech on Grex...." OK. OK. Take a valium. Get some sleep. Maybe some breathing exercises. You'll do yourself an injury if you keep this up much longer.
Nothing a little breastmilk won't cure!
Just a little more sex...
AND A LOT MORE FREEDOM RIBBON!
re122: whatever, milquetoast.
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re : 122 It's rather convenient to be condescending after the fact, when you've basically got what you wanted, ne?
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Your second sentence in #129 proves that your complaints are farce: if your words were really being censored, you'd not be able to claim that you had been censored. Until YOU stop scribbling your posts, you're little more than a hypocrit to accuse Valerie of vandalism for removing her posts. As has been said many times, you can re-enter your comments from any removed items at any time.
Joe, you really don't think people can be selectively censored? Why's it impossible for some things they say to be censored and others not?
Because censorship is general, aimed at either particular people, or particular subjects. The removals here on grex were not targeted at people nor at subjects. The people whose responses were removed can still post on grex (and have, endlessly. :) The subjects of the responses can still be discussed on grex. Just not in the original items.
Keep up the lame justifications, gelinas. The fact of the matter is I can *NEVER* repost the deleted items because (a) I don't have copies and (b) I don't have a photographic memory. Sure, I could post something similar, but MY ORIGINAL WORDS are now gone forever because some assholes voted that valerie and jep's feelings were more important than mine. Those were personal favors for favored persons, pure and simple. As the disfavored person, I feel a loss over my words similar to a mourning and all you can do is pretend nothing was lost. Fuck you. If you can't see my point and acknowledge it then you are as insensitive an asshole as certain grexers accuse mnetters of being.
Was it hard to write that while wiping away tears, cyklone?
No, I save my tears for more important things. This feels more like I was robbed by a bunch of self-righteous senior citizens driving real slow getaway cars. The sad part is not that I was robbed but that they took something of inherent value to me.
Oh, okay.
Yes, I do see your point, and I acknowledge your loss, cyklone. That it hurts doesn't make it censorship, though. That it was a personal favour for special persons doesn't make it censorship. I've been convinced that the deletions were wrong. I've NOT been convinced that it was censorhip.
Why'd you ban my address, putz?
Cyklone, I am sorry that you felt so attached to your words that you feel pain that they were removed. I suppose that I don't quite get this, since I work as a copy editor and I write for publication -- if I were that attached to what I wrote, even the stuff I really adore, I'd feel pain a LOT. Just because you said it one way at one time doesn't mean that you can't get it really close another time, as long as you have a forum that allows you to try again. And I lost some information that was important to me (things like when Griffin smiled first, etc. -- which I didn't keep in any diary, or save in a folder, or anything else and which I can't replace by memory or any other means (unless someone saved the text and are willing to share), but I am not half as upset as you are.
so you are saying that you are sorry he is upset/hurt...BUT that you don't really understand why? That is the exact same argument the people doing the parody used and were attacked for not understanding the full scope of the hurt feelings that were caused because of it. (gack, run-on sentence)
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Um. I'm saying that I don't quite get the amount of pain he's claiming. I know a lot of authors (maybe not a huge amount, but I deal with them every day, and I talk to others on a regular basis) and only a very few of them are so attached to one particular expression of their ideas (as in, "oh, you deleted my file? you've censored my immortal ideas!" rather than "oh, you deleted my file? I'll have to rewrite this, what a drag. Hope I can get it close to the cool thing I wrote before.") that they feel it's worth a lot of complaining and screaming and all of the rest of it. Yes, I know it hurts to have something you've written disappear, although it hurts worse to have it mangled by an uninterested editor, ime. I don't think that making something disappear en masse without looking to see who or what was in the stuff disappeared (I don't think Valerie knew or cared exactly who or what was written in those files at the time she did it, so it was not aimed at anyone in particular or at any speech in particular) is the same at all as making fun of someone else in what seems in the medium of computers to be a mean spirit (I admit that I could be misreading your words in the agora conference but it did not seem like "ha-ha, let's laugh together at how silly everyone one is", but more of a "look what an idiot and a jackass this person is, let's laugh at what a dolt they are, and how much better we are..." type of speech). I would hope that I would not perform either action, since I don't like causing pain, but I'd rather do Valerie's action (which was not meant to hurt, imo) rather than the parody (which seems meant to hurt, or at least seriously sting, the persons parodied). YMMV.
How could the parodists be intending to sting people that weren't even reading our posts (at least until the self-righteous janc made such a big announcement)? Second, you again fall for the "it's easy to repost the same ideas" myth. NO IT ISN'T! My posts were very specific responses to words and situations present during a particular time and in a particular place. There is no possible way I could recreate those words, especially when the other words that inspired them have been removed as well. What is so hard to see about that? I'm not complaining you censored my "immortal ideas." I am complaining that you censored the expression of my ideas; an expression I can never recreate thanks to the grex thugs doing personal favors for favored persons. Thugs like you, twila. Fuck you. As far as whether or not you "get" the pain I am claiming, maybe you should reread my item in agora (#56, I believe). You are again falling for the mistake of using yourself as a yardstick for measuring and judging appropriate behavior. That is a *HORRIBLY DEFECTIVE* method and much of what has been posted is a perfect example of why.
Why isn't it easy to repost it? You had the ideas, you can have them again. If they were so inspiring and needed to be saved, then you should be able to remember the thrust of them well enough to recreate them, or the parts thereof that you believe are important. The expression is fleeting compared to the idea. I do not subscribe to the belief that all speech is important and needs to be archived for all time. Some things need to be. Some things should be forgotten as soon as they are typed. Are you sure you want to re-read yourself saying "fuck you" and calling untrue names (I am not "a brutal ruffian or assassin" as per Merriam-Webster) in twenty years, for example? You may wish to, but unless you take steps to preserve that expression of yourself for yourself, you can't expect it to be there. George isn't going to do it for you. Harry isn't. I'm not. Grex isn't. Aren't you using yourself for your yardstick? Everyone does. It's part of being human, since the only experience you have is your own. Yes, I know many people and I listen to them telling me their experiences (whether via voice or electrons), but in the end, I have to filter that through my own mind and heart and truth, to come to a decision. I didn't make a decision to vote to "favor favored persons" -- I voted the way I did because (1) what's done is done, and it would have been wrong to repost things so that those who gawk and cause trouble could have more fodder, and (2) as a parent, I could see why valerie and jep wanted those items gone. I would have wanted them gone too. I would hope that I'd have done it in a differnt way than Valerie did, but I can't say that I would have with emotions running high.
Some of these guys should be spanked with a yardstick... ;-)
... or a cattle prod... oh, yeah. --> ;-)
AND ALL OF THEM NEED TO WEAR A GREX FREEDOM RIBBON!
Twila, when I have more time I will explain how far off base you are with your "yardstick" analysis. However, one recurrent theme can be blown out of the water right now. The whole "now it's such a big deal we can never restore it because it would no longer be the status quo" carries a huge negative implication within that assumption. What you are saying is (a) if a berserk staffer or a whiner like jep manages to delete text and (b) the deletion naturally creates controversy, then (c) it cannot be restored *because* of the controversy (ie "it would have been wrong to repost things so that those who gawk and cause trouble could have more fodder"). This leads to an absurd result: If someone does something outrageous on grex, like seizing control of the words of another, then that person's wrongful acts of deletion will not be undone because of the controversy the *wrongdoer* created. Talk about rewarding inappropriate behavior. That is just one of the incredibly damaging lessons of the vote not to restore.
re 138 >I've been convinced that the deletions were wrong. I've NOT >been convinced that it was censorhip. OH GREAT! Then you can follow these three easy steps to do what is RIGHT for GreX: 1) Break into the Pumpkin 2) Restore the deleted items as written in jp2's proposal from backup tape 3) Resign from staff If you follow the three steps I'll send you an autographed postcard. If you manage to skip step 3) I'll send you two postcards. Deal?
AND I"LL SEND YOU A RIBBON EVEN IF YOU SKIP ALL STEPS!!!!
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EXACTLY! If anyone has a copy of the dbunker posts, I would very much appreciate my words back.
I HAVE A COPY OF THIS RIBBON< YOU SHOULD WEAR IT
TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE
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