Some of you may remember the funk item from the previous music cf. It seemed to be the consensus that funk is dead, although I tend to doubt that-- I think funk just morphed into something else. I'm sure that can be debated, but I do think it's notable that rap music has been strongly shaped by the particular genre. For example, Wil Smith has listed funk music as a strong influence, and George Clinton has admitted publicly that a lot of his royalties in recent years have come from rap artists sampling his material. Warren G's "G Funk Era" was just dripping with a particular funk style. Ludacris uses a lot of funk, too, and "I've Got Hos in Different Area Codes" was a strong example. If rap is said to have grown from urban poetry, then, is it possible that it shares a common root with funk? Could be a stretch, but the fact that rap seems to use funk all the time seems like there is some connection and continuity.26 responses total.
I remember where I first heard of rap: In a music column in "Omni" magazine, during either its (the magazine's) first or second year. That is, in 1978. At the same time, I was hearing "Bootsie's Rubber Band" nigh on every morning. (The squadbay was divided into two-man cubes, but the dividers were only about six feet tall. What one person listened to, we all listened to.) So I'd say it obvious that they share roots.
george clinton is a cosmetologist...right?
Funk will never die! :)
My understanding of rapping is that it came from the Jamaican "toasting" practiced by dub/dancehall MCs. The American adaption would of course be based on funk, that being the state of dancable black music in the 70's other than disco. George Clinton, being the smart guy that he is, figured out the sampling stuff quite early on and set himself and his music catalog (apparently he redid some of his own classics to gain ownership of publishing rights somehow) for easy licensing and clearance. When people wanted to sample his stuff, they could do it without having to hire a bunch of lawyers and fight over it. As a result Clinton got paid and more exposure via samples in rap tunes.
I think the Lost Poets and Gil Scott Heron may have a claims to be rap roots as well.
I'm watching "Saturday Night Fever" on TNT; some of Travolta's moves show up not much later in break dancing. So it would seem there is no bright line between disco and breaking. I mentioned listening to Parliament. Thinking back on what I was hearing, very little of it was 'song'; most of it was talking to the audience over the music, setting a scene. So I'm not convinced that there was a bright line between "funk" and "rap", either.
Actually, if I had been cognizant enough to include the whole of hip- hop as I had intended, and not just rap, the parallels might have been even clearer, as rap is just a part of that larger genre. Funk and hip-hop both seem to be an attitude and an expression of much of the same culture. They focus on a lot of the elements of urban society, and so thus my thoughts. I would be interested, however, to learn more about how rap evolved from toasting, and how it came to be in America. Where would all the roots be? Those that later grew techno, from what I remember discussed here, came largely from Detroit. Of course, I think quite a bit came from the East Coast, i.e., New York, from those such as the Sugarhill Gang, Grandmaster Flash, and a bit later, Run DMC.
Hmm... "Africaa Bambataa" [spelled weird like that, I forget exactly how] is supposed to have been a key link in rapping and especially turntable stuff.
Re-read #5!
resp:5 Not familiar with those artists; care to enlighten me? Again, in the other item, we discussed the connections to disco: I think, at least in part, that there was crossover, if you want to look at disco and funk as separate, and that the former and latter were the white and black sounds, respectively, at first. Therefore, "KC and the Sunshine Band" could be counted as one of the first bands to start crossing over the sounds successfully. Just a hypothesis-- anyone have a different perspective?
Gil Scott Heron was probably best known for "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" in which he took jabs at society and white culture, delivering his lyrics more as a speech than a song. It was something of an anthem for the Black Pride movement (or at least was inspired by that movement). IIRC, the Lost Poets were a NYC based group with a similar approach and were around even earlier. I never heard any of their stuff, but I've certainly read a lot of references to them in articles about rap history.
"...and whitey's on the moon..." who wrote that?
Gil Scott Heron [hyphen?].
Yeah, there may be a hyphen in there somewhere ;)
Now that I'm home and can access my CD collection: "Gil Scott-Heron".
There was also another area that I was wondering about-- what's the difference between funk and soul? More accurately, how did the sound branch out? I am assuming soul is an earlier sound than funk, but I find the connections elusive (without a ton of study time I can't make right now; musicology can't pay the bills). I am assuming soul descended from the family tree of jazz and rhythm and blues (I am recalling an old Entertainment Weekly listing an obituary of celebrities; one was a black.. musicologist, apparently, judging from the flowchart/tree that was written on a blackboard behind him). I am also assuming that James Brown had a heavy hand in the evolving sound, as he is associated with funk, and yet is called "The Godfather of Soul." Did fusion have an influence? The interplay between funk and disco seems to clearer to me, somewhat, if only that I can list that Kool and The Gang seems to be one group that bridged the gap. Oddly enough, I wonder if they returned to the cycle-- they eventually turned to a 'lite pop rock' twist on their style that I think might have a little bit of influence in some of contemporary soul. Granted, these are wild extrapolations, and I will need to do some heavy homework sometime deep in a music library.
Bootsy Collins (bass player for Parliament/Fundakelic), in an NPR interview I heard, basically summed up the difference as where the accents fell. Soul is basically on the 2 and 4 (although I've got some Marvin Gaye running through my head that says 1 and 3), which ties in with the blues/jazz source. Jame Brown put accents on somewhat odder beats, and usually at a significantly higher tempo. P-Funk put an accent on every single quarter note, the "everything on the one" sound. I think the big difference is that funk puts more accents into a measure than soul.
I like that explanation. To confuse things further, I would also point out that a lot of soul music is played on the "back" part of the beat. I am *not* referring to the 2 and 4 that you are talking about, I mean every beat. It's a concept that throws a lot of very experienced musicians, who think you are either on or off the beat. In fact, there is a certain amount of wiggle room. At the extremes, someone too far "in front" sounds like they are rushing or pushing the beat, and someone to far "behind" can sound like they are dragging (even though they are keeping the correct tempo). Anyway, my observation is that funk tends to be much more on the "front" of the beat as compared to soul.
resp:17 Yeah, I understand Bootsy Collins is one of the funk bass authorities. As for James Brown, the notion that his accent placement for soul.. how do you mean 'irregular'?.. is different and usually accompanies a faster tempo, I think, might suggest some evolution between soul and funk. Granted, George Clinton and Parliment are later performers, so naturally, I think their interpretation of funk is/was probably different than Brown's. What about Earth, Wind, and Fire? Almost forgot about them. From what little I have heard of their best material, they were slightly on the edge of funk leading into disco-- I think I remember Kool and the Gang made a more abrupt shift than they did. "Shining Star" and "Boogie On Down" are examples I am thinking as far as a EWF shift more into disco. Between scott and cyklone's explanation's, I think my initial observations concerning soul and funk might not have been far off. The combination of accent and beat placement seem to suggest a real difference in mood between the two styles; i.e., soul sounds more mellow, mournful, etc., and funk sounds a little peppier. With the latter, emphasis on more accents would probably enhance such an effect. I think emphasis on bass accompaniment probably influences the mood further.. much of funk, but not all, uses some sort of bass guitar instrumentation, and with the proliferation of subbass sound with the subwoofer (I believe, tho, Infinity introduced the sub speaker in '68 or '69), the accent can further be enhanced with a low frequency sound. With psychoacoustics and music therapy in mind, I do strictly define beat by connections to the heartbeat-- many studies suggest the heartbeat often changes to match the tempo (beats per minute) of music an individual listens to, and so I suppose some sort of suggestion of mood would have a basis in fact. I remember Ken said Chicago used to employ some funk in their sound, especially when they were still getting away with the name Chicago Transit Authority. Noting that Chicago played with marrying fusion, pop, and some folk rock style, eventually gravitating to the overdone 80's power ballad, I'm also curious how they fit in. Could the power ballad be in any way connected to the last sound Kool and the Gang employed, which seemed to be a float away from disco into the "pop rock" or "lite rock" sound? I am beginning to understand why a professor of mine suggested musicology..
Bootsy, in the NPR interview, did a *great* Jame Brown vocal impersonation to demonstrate how the accents worked. Sadly, I can't remember exactly where the accents fell. But it was a vocal thing, not necessarily a bass thing. Soul, at least the Motown variety, had a dominant bass guitar foundation.
I did a little research, and I found the hip-hop group Digital Underground was responsible for popularizing P-Funk samples in rap music. Here's a review of their debut (and most notable) recording, "Sex Packets" from Real One, as follows: * While hip-hop was consumed by the hardcore, noisy political rap of Public Enemy and the gangsta rap of N.W.A., Digital Underground sneaked out of Oakland with its bizarre, funky homage to Parliament- Funkadelic. Building most of their music from samples P-Funk records and developing a similarly weird sense of style and humor, highlighted by Shock-G outrageous costumes, and the whole band's parade of alter egoes. Of all these alter egoes, Shock-G's Humpty Hump -- a ridiculous comical figure with a Groucho Marx nose and glasses, and a goofy, stuttering voice -- was the most famous, especially since he was immortalized on their breakthrough single, "The Humpty Dance." Over the course of their career, Digital Underground has featured a numerous members, but throughout it all, Shock-G has remained at its core, developing the band's sound and style, which they had from the outset, as their 1990 debut Sex Packets proved. Sex Packets was an instant hit, thanks the loopy single "The Humpty Dance," and while they never scaled such commercial heights ever again, their role in popularizing George Clinton's elastic funk made them one of the most important hip-hop groups of their era. Shock-G (b. Gregory E. Jacobs, August 25, 1963) had spent most of his childhood moving around the East Coast with his family, eventually settling in the Bay Area of California. He dropped out of high school in the late '70s and spent several years pursuing a life of crime before eventually finishing his degree and going to college to study music. Along with Chopmaster J, Shock G formed Digital Underground in 1987, and the duo released a single, "Underwater Rimes," that year which went to number one in the Netherlands. In 1989, the group signed with Tommy Boy and that summer "Doowutchyalike" became an underground hit. By that time, Digital Underground had expanded significantly, featuring DJ Fuze, Money-B (b. Ron Brooks), and Schmoovy-Schmoov (b. Earl Cook). Sex Packets, the group's debut album, was released in the spring of 1990, and "The Humpty Dance," which was rapped by Shock G's alter ego Humpty Hump, climbed all the way to number 11 on the pop charts, peaking at number seven on the R&B charts. With its P-Funk samples, jazzy interludes and innovative amaglam of samples and live instrumentation, Sex Packets received positive reviews and went platinum by the end of the year. Digital Underground followed Sex Packets in early 1991 with This Is An EP Release, their first recording to feature rapper Tupac Shakur. The EP went gold and set the stage for their second album, Sons of the P, which was released that fall. On the strength of the gold single "Kiss You Back," Sons of the P also went gold, but it received criticism for its similarity to Sex Packets. By the time Digital Underground delivered its third album, The Body Hat Syndrome in late 1993, hip-hop had become dominated by gangsta rap, particularly the drawling G-funk of Dr. Dre, which ironically was heavily indebted to George Clinton. Consequently, their fan base diminished significantly, and The Body Hat Syndrome disappeared shortly after its release. Nearly three years later, Digital Underground returned with Future Rhythm, which spent a mere three weeks on the charts. Who Got the Gravy? followed in 1998. ~ Stephen Thomas Erlewine, All Music Guide * Of course, Snoop Dogg also sampled George Clinton as well-- "What's My Name" is essentially a cover of "Atomic Dog."
Also, having done a little research on Heatwave, of "Boogie Nights" fame, it would seem that soft funk evolved somewhat into connections to disco, and soul would seem to be the slow-tempo counterpart to funk. Heatwave was apparently an influence on the second sound of Kool & The Gang. Here's Real One's notes at the artist guide again, on the album _Central Heating_, as follows: If you could use only one adjective to describe Heatwave's sound, it would be "smooth." The band's romantic ballads and slow jams were the epitome of smooth, and that adjective also describes many of their up- tempo funk grooves. This isn't to say that Heatwave's funk lacked grit -- it had plenty of grit, but even so, it was an undeniably smoother style of funk than Parliament/Funkadelic, James Brown, Tower of Power, Rick James, or the Bar-Kays. In fact, when Kool & the Gang switched to a smoother, sleeker approach in 1979 and hired J.T. Taylor as its new lead vocalist, Heatwave was a big influence. The Kool & the Gang that emerged on 1979's Ladies' Night is certainly a lot more Heatwave-like than the gutbucket, down-and-dirty Kool & the Gang of "Jungle Boogie" and "Hollywood Swinging." And it isn't hard to hear the parallels between Taylor and Heatwave's Johnnie Wilder. It's safe to assume that when Kool & the Gang was reinventing itself, its members had Too Hot to Handle and Central Heating in their collections. With this excellent sophomore effort, Heatwave lived up to the promise it showed on Too Hot to Handle. The invigorating funk smash "The Groove Line" became a disco-era anthem, and the album's other big hit, "Mind Blowing Decisions," is a quiet-storm classic. From up-tempo funk grooves like "Party Poops" and "Put the Word Out" to the romantic Northern soul of "Happiness Togetherness" and "Leaving for a Dream," Central Heating is among Heatwave's strongest releases. ~ Alex Henderson, All Music Guide
I'm not sure if it was mentioned in the funk item from the previous music conference, but funk also seems to have been absorbed quite a bit into the newer styles of rock. On this thread, I think The Red Hot Chili Peppers were probably one of the first bands to really put the rock-funk mix in the spotlight. The fact that George Clinton mentored them in their early days is quite notable-- he told VH1's Behind The Music something to the effect of "I go where the funk is" when interviewed about his work with the Chili Peppers. I worked with some rockers at my last job, and so I was listening to the rock station quite a bit. Apparently, a lot of rock acts were drawing on funk as well as hip-hop.
resp:19 and resp:22 As discussed before, funk smoothed out in the late 70s to merge somewhat with disco. Soul, on the other hand, picked up the tempo a bit to mainstream into contemporary "lite rock," although I suspect that it was merely mingling with its "white sound" contemporaries (think AM dial for "white sound," I guess). Heatwave, Kool and the Gang, Earth, Wind, and Fire, and Lakeside are all reference points; as is Lionel Richie during and after his work with the Commodores.
just on a disco tangent-- Kylie Minogue seems to be the latest to follow the retro-disco trend, and she seems to be doing quite successfully. After the remake of "Locomotion," she's recently hit stardom with "Fever" (aptly named, I'd say). She's drawing comparisons to Madonna, supposedly because Madonna once sounded like a disco dolly. The sound is very much in keeping with early 80's disco trends.. it's tied to very soft funk.
another comment on the funk-to-rap: Rapper Coolio brought attention to a late 70's and early 80's funk and R&B band called Lakeside in 1995 by remaking two of their big hits with them: "It's All The Way Live" and "Fantastic Voyage." "It's All The Way Live" was a Top 5 R&B hit in 1979, cut from their debut album, _Shot of Love_. "Fantastic Voyage" was their biggest pop hit and another R&B chartopper in 1980, cut from their third album of the same name, which also went gold. Again, I don't think the Coolio remakes took samples: I think Lakeside actually performed in the songs.
You have several choices: