---- Cutting and pasting from the "Bummed" item in fall Agora conference ---- ( item:agora,7 ) :: #191 of 208: by Bjorn Arnesen (vidar) on Mon, Oct 22, 2001 (16:54): IBB TV and Radio have been ruining Enya's song "Only Time". #192 of 208: by S. Lynne Fremont (slynne) on Mon, Oct 22, 2001 (17:11): Yeah, it got really popular all of a sudden. I have the cd and still like it but it is getting near the "overplayed" point #193 of 208: by Megan Heberlein (eeyore) on Mon, Oct 22, 2001 (23:16): Actually, Enya ruined "Only Time", just by doing it. You know, for as much as I tend to like the Irish-y stuff, I cannot stand her... #194 of 208: by Ken Josenhans (krj) on Tue, Oct 23, 2001 (00:39): Apparently someone tied the Enya song in with an inspirational video about the attacks, and as a result the album rocketed to #2 on the Billboard charts. I don't have the details. #195 of 208: by take off, eh? (beeswing) on Tue, Oct 23, 2001 (14:31): I also can't quite dig Enya. ... #197 of 208: by Sarah Zamenski (michaela) on Tue, Oct 23, 2001 (20:30): Enya is new age, not Irish. Even I'll admit that. Well, she's Irish, but her new album isn't. "The Celts" was close, but still bordered on new age. #199 of 208: by Mickey (micklpkl) on Tue, Oct 23, 2001 (21:41): I'm bummed to read so many folks dissin' Enya in the bummed item. #200 of 208: by Twila Oxley Price (anderyn) on Tue, Oct 23, 2001 (22:02): Well, she's new age, but she's still Irish. After all, the woman WAS born there, and speaks Gaelic. I figure that it makes her Irish, even if her music isn't traditional. #201 of 208: by Paul Kershaw (brighn) on Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (00:29): I believe that Sarah meant, "While enya is ethnically Irish, her music does not qualify as belonging to the genre 'Irish music.'" Anymore than U2's does. Or Therapy?'s. #202 of 208: by Twila Oxley Price (anderyn) on Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (07:16): Well... what constitutes the genre? Singing in Gaelic? Using *only* traditional instruments and tunes? Enya certainly started out in Clannad, back when they were definitely an Irish band by any definition, and even now her music bears echos of that. Clannad certainly isn't traditional anymore, but are they still Irish music? #203 of 208: by That Anne Person (mooncat) on Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (08:37): I like Clannad. :) #204 of 208: by Christopher L Goosman (goose) on Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (09:32): Don't forget Thin Lizzy..they're Irish. (or were in the case of Phil Lynott) #205 of 208: by Brooke Edmunds (edina) on Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (11:09): Clannad and Altan are Irish - and slightly uncommon trivia, Enya's sister is the lead singer of Clannad - and Enya used to be Clannad. And for the ultimate in Irish music, it hands-down goes to the wondrous boys of the Chieftains. "Irish Heartbeat" - where they collaborated with Van Morrison is one of my favorite pieces of work. #206 of 208: by Ken Josenhans (krj) on Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (11:49): Maybe we need an Irish Music item. Or a Celtic Music item. Or... :) #207 of 208: by Twila Oxley Price (anderyn) on Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (12:49): Grin. Maybe. Of course, I still don't like the Chieftans that much. (Twila admits it might be heresy, but they just never grabbed her. Christy Moore, uhm, Tommy Sands, and the Black Family are all more to her taste.) #208 of 208: by Paul Kershaw (brighn) on Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (12:59): I can't give a detailed account of what qualifies a "Irish" music, but since I've heard some in English, I don't think "sings in Irish" is a requirement. I do understand that The Pogues are at least closer to Irish music than modern Enya is. Tori Amos used to be in a hard rock band, and Ministry's first album was pure New Wave, and David Bowie's first singles were heavily influenced by folk, but I don't think any of those artists belong to those genres now.72 responses total.
((( This item is Agora 94 and Music 45. )))
Thanks Ken. I have been wondering why folks dont like Enya. I think her voice is beautiful and it doesnt matter to me if her music is considered "authentic" Irish music or not.
Enya is one of my guilty pleasures. Hey! stop that dirty-minded train of thought! I meant to say her *music*. I am a hard rock fan at my core, but my tastes also cover other music, and I find Enya's music very relaxing.
I like Enya's music pretty well. It doesn't matter to me that it may not be considered "pure" Irish.
I have a collection of cd's that I keep in my room that are by "bedtime music" Enya is one of my favorites. It is totally relaxing.
I wouldn't care for a constant diet of it, but I find Enya's music to be enjoyably atmospheric, making fine background music when I'm concentrating on a book or a programming project..
I like Enya...I just don't consider the new album "Irish" in style. When I think of Irish, I think of the Pogues (Irish punk) or the Chieftains.
#7: Well, if you're going to be picky, The Pogues are/were (are they still arond?) Londoners letting on to be Irish... Enya is an Irish woman playing "New Age" music , though she does come from an Irish Folk background; just as U2 are an Irish band playing Rock 'n Roll (or whatever it's called nowadays).
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The Pogues had occasional moments of brilliance (I've always liked "Fairytale of New York") and many less-inspired but still enjoyable songs (I have an inexplicable soft spot for some of the other songs on "If I Should Fall..", like "Bottle of Smoke" and "Turkish Song of the Damned") Unfortunately, McGowan just disintegrated under the weight of his band's success..
The Pogues one moment of glory: The Boys From The County Hell by Shane MacGowan On the first day of March it was raining It was raining worse than anything that I have ever seen I drank ten pints of beer and I cursed all the people there And I wish that all this rain would stop falling down on me And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink And mother wake me early in the morning At the time I was working for a landlord And he was the meanest bastard that you have ever seen And to lose a single penny would grieve him awful sore And he was a miserable bollocks and a bitch's bastard's whore And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink And mother wake me early in the morning I recall we took care of him one Sunday We got him out the back and we broke his fucking balls And maybe that was dreaming and maybe that was real But all I know is I left that place without a penny or fuck all. And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink And mother wake me early in the morning But now I've the most charming of verandahs I sit and watch the junkies, the drunks, the pimps, the whores Five green bottles sitting on the floor I wish to Christ, I wish to Christ that I had fifteen more. And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink And mother wake me early in the morning And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink And mother wake me early in the morning The boys and me are drunk and looking for you We'll eat your frigging entrails and we won't give a damn Me daddy was a blue shirt and my mother a madam And my brother earned his medals at My Lai in Vietnam And it's lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink And mother wake me early in the morning On the first day of March it was raining It was raining worse than anything that I have ever seen Stay on the other side of the road 'cause you can never tell We've a thirst like a gang of devils, we're the boys of the county hell. And it's lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink And mother wake me early in the morning And it's lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink And mother wake me early in the morning. But I've heard whole Pogue albums where every song is done in the same time, no matter what it is. In particular, I've never fogiven Shane MacGowman for the way I heard him massacre "Roddy MacCorley".
Honestly, I don't think most people's issue with Enya is whether or not she's 'traditional.' Some people like their music hard, and some like it soft, and Enya's far enough on the soft end of the spectrum that she'll annoy the hell out of anyone with harder tastes. The Pogues (or, better yet, Dropkick Murphys or Ashley MacIsaac) have the same problem in reverse -- their sound is hard enough that it'll annoy anyone with softer tastes, no matter how good or bad or 'real' or 'fake' their music is. (Of course, Enya _isn't_ traditional, and neither are the Pogues. My point is, there are too many people who think that Enya is authentic but the Pogues aren't (or vice versa -- sorry, Sarah) for me to think that anyone's really talking about authenticity when they have this argument.)
(And then there's the question of why it should matter if music is "authentic"..)
I agree with Paul that The Pogues had but one moment of glory, but disagree about what it is. "Fairytale of New York" is a classic, and it was only after buying a Pogues album that I realized it was Kirsty that made that song a classic, not The Pogues. BTW, I don't *like* Irish music, so saying that Enya isn't Irish music is a compliment to her, not an insult. (I'm glad to see that Dan is going with the flow on this conversation...)
Actually, what I really don't like about her is the music. Computerized music just makes my skin crawl. Well, and a whole bunch of her songs sound all the same too. Her earlier stuff did seem to have some Irish background to it, even if it was New Age.
enya makes me sleepy.
anything which calms happyboy down is probably a good thing =}
hah! I do like the Pogues - Peace and Love is one of my favorite pieces of music, but not for the reasons people think - "Young Ned of the Hill" is such a rebel song - it makes me think of the Wolftones. And I am also love "Down All the Days". But "In My Blue Heaven" (I may have the title wrong) brings back such great memories of dancing around my dorm room. I am a huge fan of Hothouse Flowers - they are more of a poppy Irish band (think Counting Crows) but when I see them, they usually do one or two trad Irish songs and they convey it quite beautifully. They seem so wonderfully passionate about it all . . .
re17: buy me some BEER then, paul. :)
resp:18 :: I wasn't sure Hothouse Flowers were still around. I'd sort of lost track of them; I was never that big a fan but one of my trading friends was quite enthusiastic. Fiachna seems to be in a long term collaboration with Michelle Shocked; he was with her band when they played Ann Arbor, and a few years back a limited-edition release was jointly billed to the two of them.
Metallica is my favorite Irish band. Well...they *did* do a cover of Whiskey in the Jar...
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What's funny about when I first heard the Metallica version is that I was totally unaware of it being a very old Irish song not to mention that I was unaware that it had been covered by other artists. I kept thinking... "this song is really a departure for them... not their typical style... but I *like* it..." I felt so naive when I learned the truth. I've since been to some Irish parties. Lots of Irish music with compulsory participation. It took a few drinks to make me comfortable singing along to the rooster song...
The fact that "Whiskey in the Jar" was on their 2-disc "cover songs" set didn't tip you off that it was a cover? ;}
Although I call myself a fan, alas... I have not followed their releases for some time. I heard "Turn the Page" much later. I can't think of other covers I have heard by them. "Am I Evil" is an old cover done by Diamondback if I recall correctly, but they did that one a long time ago and released it on the original "Garage Days". Now I'm curious to hear the other tracks... or at least see what they covered. Oh well... it's not Irish music, so I should avoid derailing the discussion. I know little about Irish music. 'cept I know a song about a rooster.
One would be tempted to try to interest Terence in...
1) Horslips, a 1970s Irish band which flitted back and forth
between mostly acoustic traditional and straight rock, and
whose best album is a "concept album" (uh-oh) hard rock setting
of the Irish mythological work THE BOOK OF INVASIONS.
2) Moving Hearts, a 1980s band which began as an experiment to create
an authentically Irish rock and roll, with Christy Moore as
the singer, and uillean pipes usually replacing electric
guitars as the lead instrument. With Christy as the singer
they were a very political band; after he left they did one
more album which was an all-instrumental masterpiece, THE STORM.
3) Runrig, a long-lived Scottish band who are really just an
arena rock band with a sizable folk/Gaelic influence.
Hothouse Flowers is still around - they have releases a "live" and "best of" cd. I could only get their 4th cd in Ireland. I saw them in concert this past summer - they are probably one of my fave live bands. I anxiously await new stuff - they did some new songs that I hadn't heard before.
FWIW, Metallica's version of "Whiskey in the Jar" is a cover of Thin Lizzy's version of the tune.
Re # 15: I have noticed that some of her songs do seem strikingly similar and I have had trouble telling some of them apart from the first few moments of playing but I do make the connection pretty fast. I actually thought that if one stripped away the lyrics from "Tempus Vernum" (also on A Day Without Rain) it would make an excellent villain entry theme. What I was objecting to in the bummed item is 1. Only Time being played as background music for an episode of Friends (a show I detest) was having a baby, and 2.) being overplayed on the radio (I like Enya, but I *hate* "Orinoco Flow" from being exposed to it at least once an hour when I worked at Meijer). In the most recent issue of Entertainment Weekly I received (before I cancelled the subscription) had a sidebar about why this drudging of "Only Time" is going on. It also mentioned 2 faster remixes of the song, and that Enya will be doing 2 songs for the first Lord of the Rings movie. I have never considered Enya's music Irish, just New Age - since that's the section her CDs are always in.
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Mmmm...Battlefield Band...I love them. You need to hear Corvus Corax, too.
Battlefield Band is supposed to be at the Ark in early November, with their new singer Karine Polwart. I haven't got the date at my fingertips. Christy Moore sang on the album titled MOVING HEARTS, and on the second one DARK END OF THE STREET.
Re Corvus Corax: _Great_ band name. What're they like?
They're just great. I can't describe it. LOUD bagpipes and drums...strong stage presence...
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They're a bit hard to find, but I think I've seen them on Ebay. cdnow.com might have some too. I don't know the album names. My friend sent me some mp3s.
A large number of Corvus Corax recordings turn up on amazon.de (the German site), and Google finds a web page for the band.
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It can't be any worse than ordering CDs from a Polish language web site :) If you want to pursue this seriously, we'll talk to Leslie, she has a good command of the German language. Sarah, thanks for the mention of Corvus Corax, they seem interesting.
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Enya is goopy, but it's amazingly high quality goop. I like every song she's ever done, with one exception: "Marble Halls". "The Lord of the Rings" will not be the first film she's had songs in. Songs from her albums also appeared in "Toys" (the underrated Robin Williams film) and "L.A. Story" (the superb Steve Martin film). And those are just the ones I've seen.
She also did some music for the game and/or movie "Final Fantasy". I like Enya. I just consider her more new age than Irish (though she IS Irish in heritage).
re: resp:40 & Corvus Corax: I have one of their CDs. It's called TRITONUS.
Thank you! I always loved "Toys" but everyone just looks at me like am on crack when I say it.
"Toys" also features an excerpt from Tchaikovsky's unjustly neglected First Symphony. A great film, and not just for the music.
Well - Joan Cusack makes any movie wondrous.
..shame about her sitcom, though.. has that been cancelled yet?
#46> I couldn't agree less. I find her very grating. Her brother, OTOH, tends to be a shining light in a mess of a movie (with a few exceptions); he needs better taste in scripts.
resp:47 :: I believe that WHAT ABOUT JOAN was cancelled. It was odd that it was renewed for this year, and then cancelled so suddenly in the new season.
If this is going to become the Cusack item, I must express my regret that John has become a big enough star that apparently he is now only going to appear in really sucky pictures. That often happens to big stars. =High Fidelity= was really fine - an actor even infinitesimally grating would have been unable to carry it off - but I have not the slightest desire to see any of his subsequent films to date.
Hmmm, I thought "serendipity" looked like it had some possibilities.
Until I read the reviews.
John has gone on record saying that he makes movies like "American Sweethearts" so that he can make smaller films like "High Fidelity".
#50> John Cusack has only had two films released since "High Fidelity." That sounds like an awful small sample size, given his pre-"HiFi" filmography, to decide he's sold out.
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resp:54 - given Cusack's pre-"HiFi" filmography, it's even more striking that he seems to have "sold out" (as you put it) than it would be if he'd made films like these latest two before. To me, Cusack is the "bury himself in the role but do it splendidly" actor of "Malkovich" and "Cradle Will Rock". By the reviews, "America's Sweethearts" and "Serendipity" are romantic star turns - a very different genre even from "HiFi". I didn't use the term "sold out", which implies a cynicism on the actor's part I did not suspect: rather I tried to describe him as a victim of the scripts he's offered. Nor did I "decide" he's done it - I posted a speculation only. If one can't note a trend without being told that one's jumped to conclusions, that will certainly put a damper on conversation. resp:53 - If Cusack is going to use his star power to make more small films, what of that kind does he have in the works?
As far as I'm concerned, Cusack's role in "Better Off Dead" will always be his shining moment..
Cusack wasn't a romantic lead in "Say Anything..."? It looked like it from the bit I saw (only about fifteen minutes, though, I couldn't stand it). "Serendipity" looks from the teasers like a rehash of his old "Say Anything..." and "Better Off Dead" persona, with a little of the "HiFi" biz. For that matter, his "Grosse Pointe Blank" role had plenty of romantic comedy bits, and that's probably what I'd call my favorite Cusack movie (as opposed to my favorite movie that Cusack was in, which is probably "Midnight in the Garden...", which I'd call my favorite Spacey movie ;} ). A "trend" has not been established by only two movies in a filmography the size of Cusack's. You're jumping to conclusions.
You know, I think "Better Off Dead" is my favorite movie with Cusack in it although I like almost all of the others. That movie is genius!
resp:58 - I wasn't judging Cusack's latest films by their teasers, but by their reviews. Their differentiation from his earlier films - noted by the reviewers themselves! who know at least as much as you or I do - is so sharp that two films indeed make a trend. And these are major roles, not cameos. Stars tend not to make as many films as successful lesser players (or are you going to tell me I'm jumping to conclusions by calling Cusack a new star?) Look, here's an analogy - Russia had dozens of czars before Kerensky and Lenin. But to suggest in 1918 that their advent marked a trend in Russian history couldn't be dismissed as "jumping to conclusions" because they were "only two leaders in a history the length of Russia's". Admittedly there's a much sharper difference between a czar and a Menshevik (let alone a Bolshevik) than between any two Cusack films, but the point is that the relative weight of the two sides doesn't invalidate the observation of a trend.
I know what I'm nominating for "Strangest Analogy of the Week".. :-) I agree partially with both sides -- I don't think two films necessarily constitutes a trend, but I also think that after a couple of successful high-profile films, the types of roles offered to actors start to change. Were "America's Sweethearts" or "Serendipity" successful, though?
#60> Cusack has been a "star" for a while. He's been put up against Cage, Spacey, and Broderick, all stars when the movies in question were made (Con Air, Midnight in the Garden..., and Road to Welville, respectively). "Lesser players" don't tend to get billing like that.
Major billing in a given film isn't the same thing as being a star, in the sense I'm discussing it. In the IMDB poster for "Road to Wellville", Cusack, Broderick, Dana Carvey, Bridget Fonda, and Anthony Hopkins all get their names in precisely the same size lettering, but surely you're not going to claim that makes them stars of equal magnitude?
At the time the movie was made, they were of comparable levels, with Hopkins perhaps edging the rest of them out. Carvey was still hot from SNL, Fonda has pretty much always been at a same just-below-the-radar buzz level, and Cusack and Broderick were names that had been around for a while, and that people were aware of (the same, I think, could be said for Hopkins). Your sense of "star" appears to be "David Bratman thinks X is a star." I don't believe that many sources, if any, use that specific gauge for determining who is and who isn't a star.
So I'm the only person who thinks Cusack is a star? "Stars expected to appear include ... John Cusack" - Brian D. Johnson, "Hot titles in Toronto", Maclean's, Sept. 10 "America's Sweethearts [is] a romantic comedy dripping with star power: Julia Roberts ... John Cusack" - Des Partridge, Courier Mail, Nov. 8 (that's the actors, not the characters, being described) And so forth. And what made me think he's a new star? Well, how about the flush of articles about him that have appeared in the last year or so? How about the independent lead billings? There wasn't anything like that before. (Road to Wellville was billed as an ensemble film.) I live on the planet Earth, Paul, not just in my own mind, or yours. And on the planet Earth, what I see around me is that John Cusack, a hard-working character actor of long standing, has recently taken a startling metamorphosis into his first highly-publicized leading romantic-comedy roles, in films whose reviews are accusing them of a soppiness and sappiness not previously associated with Mr. Cusack's work. I also observe that, on the planet Earth, actors who achieve this status are frequently stuck with it, and that their later films mostly don't measure up to their earlier ones.
I didn't say Cusack wasn't a star. Now you're putting words in my mouth. I
said that Cusack wasn't a NEW star. When Midnight... came out, he got equal
billing with Spacey, a major new star at the time. Grosse Pointe Blank was
a star turn for Cusack, although the clear star of Aykroyd (with, granted,
a much smaller role, almost a cameo) and the nearly-as-famous Alan Arkin both
received lesser billing (the IMDb poster shows Cusack and Driver, and lists
the four of them). Wellville *was* an ensemble, and superstars can be in
ensembles, too (recent examples include Heist [are you suggesting that Hackman
and Devito aren't stars?] and Swordfish [are you suggesting that Travolta
isn't a star?], as well as Snatch [where superstar Brad Pitt is tucked in
amongst the British actors, being less well known over there]). For that
matter, Cusack received higher billing than David Ogden Steirs (M*A*S*H) and
Kim Darby (True Grit) for "Better Off Dead," even though Darby's role was
certainly large enough to give her higher billing. 86's "One Crazy Summer"
gave him higher billing than Demi Moore and Bob Goldthwait, while 88's
"Tapeheads" saw him sharing billing with Tim Robbins. I've already answered
the claim that only America's Sweethearts and Serendipity are sappy... I
couldn't even get THROUGH "High Fidelity" because of his
Allenesque-cum-romantic lead performance.
Cusack has gotten lead billing for most of his career. Most of his movies have
been commercial successes. NOW you're claiming he's been a character actor
until just last year? Methinks you haven't been paying a bit of attention...
just because YOU just noticed Cusack a few years ago, the rest of the world
noticed him back in 1985 ("It's a damn shame, throwing out a perfectly good
white boy.")
Great Movie! It has Curtis Armstrong in it too. He really is a character actor and not a star.
Now, Curtis Armstrong, THERE's a character actor. Although he usually plays the same sort of character (Booger in the "Nerds" movies, the "What the fuck" kid in Risky Business, and something in Moonlighting, but I never watched that show). Curtis Armstrong and Marshall Crenshaw (singer, "Buddy Holly" in La Bamba) are the two most famous graduates that I know of of Berkley (MI) High School, my alma mater. I even heard Armstrong mention my Middle School drama teacher, Mr. Young, in a national interview once. Go Bears. =} (I've also heard rumors that Vincent Furnier, aka Alice Cooper, also attended, but didn't graduate from, the Berkley schools, but I don't think it's true.) (And yes, in case anyone was wondering, I *did* get asked a half dozen times if I was Marshall's younger brother. =P It's KERshaw, people, not CRENshaw.)
Have you ever considered just going with a contraction of your first and last names and calling yourself p'shaw?
heh, I like that. you're the first person to mention that, really. p'shaw
I didnt know Curtis Armstrong was from Michigan. I saw him once in a really good play at the Attic theater. It was nice.
I see from the Plymouth Observer that there will be Irish fiddling and dancing going on at the Ark Sat & Sun Dec 29 & 30.
You have several choices: