Grex Music3 Conference

Item 111: John Entwistle Memorial Let It Rock item, Bassicaly.

Entered by tpryan on Fri Jun 28 16:34:59 2002:

        Long Live Rock!

        Remembering John Entwistle of The Who, whom passed away
yesterday.

        What have you been rocking to lately?
70 responses total.

#1 of 70 by lemmy on Fri Jun 28 16:36:42 2002:

Yeah, I read about it at CNN. Wonder who the next big rockstar to keel over
will be? 


#2 of 70 by brighn on Fri Jun 28 16:39:24 2002:

"who passed away yesterday."
 
"whom" is incorrect.


#3 of 70 by lemmy on Fri Jun 28 16:45:09 2002:

Yeah, but lots of people use "whom" for emphasis rather than grammar. 


#4 of 70 by brighn on Fri Jun 28 16:59:09 2002:

No, lots of people use "whom" to be pretentious rather than grammatical.


#5 of 70 by michaela on Fri Jun 28 17:29:46 2002:

<nod>


#6 of 70 by catfish on Fri Jun 28 17:41:48 2002:

Whom would do a facetious thing like that?


#7 of 70 by brighn on Fri Jun 28 17:48:08 2002:

I don't know. Who would? And to whom would such a comment be directed, and
whom would be annoyed by it? ;}


#8 of 70 by scott on Fri Jun 28 18:09:45 2002:

Sad to hear it.  However, both Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey are supposed
to be pretty healthy guys, so we'll probably still have them around for a
while.  

I'll be really bummed whet Townshend dies.  I think he's one of the people
who'll be remembered as significant composers in the 20th century.


#9 of 70 by catfish on Fri Jun 28 18:35:29 2002:

Maybe Keith Richards will be next. 


#10 of 70 by brighn on Fri Jun 28 19:51:09 2002:

Keith Richards was never in The Whom.


#11 of 70 by catfish on Fri Jun 28 19:55:21 2002:

it probably won't be a member of The Whom, but some otherband from the 60's
or 70's. Keith looks like he has been dead several years anyway.


#12 of 70 by scott on Fri Jun 28 19:57:55 2002:

Indeed.  Keith cannot be killed by conventional weapons.


#13 of 70 by brighn on Fri Jun 28 20:56:12 2002:

The Frog Brothers were wrong. Keith Richards is the Head Vampire, and he will
be killed off if and when they make Lost Boys 2.


#14 of 70 by goose on Sat Jun 29 01:37:29 2002:

Apparently the two surviving embers have found a replacement bass player
and the tour will continue.  I'm not sure how I feel about this.


#15 of 70 by scott on Sat Jun 29 03:02:05 2002:

It's fairly common practice (on big national tours) to have understudy
musicians in case of an accident.  Obviously you can't replace a lead singer,
but you can have other players.  And I recall a story years ago about The
Police giving a show where Sting (with a heavily bandaged hand) was just lead
singer for the show.


#16 of 70 by bru on Sat Jun 29 03:17:54 2002:

this isn't an understudy.  This is a Welsh bass guitarist who has worked with
a number of nationally recognized bands.  He is also a quick study, and will
learn the music over the next few days.


#17 of 70 by scott on Sat Jun 29 13:09:15 2002:

Close enough to "understudy", though.  

It's not like nobody ever bothered to learn any Who tunes.  ;)


#18 of 70 by i on Sat Jun 29 14:42:29 2002:

Between the money, exposure, and long popularity of the band's tunes,
i'd guess that there'd be plenty of well-qualified applicants available
on a moment's notice.


#19 of 70 by other on Sat Jun 29 15:45:27 2002:

It was rather sweet yesterday during Delta 88's sound check, while the 
Who was playing over the TOP speakers, when the two members of Delta 88 
who were onstage simultaneously started playing along with "My 
Generation."


#20 of 70 by krj on Sat Jun 29 16:45:53 2002:

From sfgate.com / San Francisco Chronicle:
 
"Entwistle will be replaced by British studio musician 
 Pino Palladino. ...  Palladino played with Townshend
 on his 1993 U.S. solo tour and recently backed a lineup
 of rock royalty performing in honor of Queen Elizabeth's
 Golden Jubilee celebration at Buckingham Palace.
 A tour organizer said that Palladino had been keeping
 his schedule open in case Entwistle's heart condition
 caused him to miss shows on the tour."


#21 of 70 by jor on Sat Jul 6 18:26:18 2002:


        In 'The Kids Are Allright', there's is some concert
        footage from a show where Kieth Moon evidently
        took some horse tranquilizers or something. As
        Townshend tells the story, someone was offering
        them backstage and Moon was always the one to
        show off and take more, of everything.

        So after a certain point he can barely play
        and then he totally passes out, and it's shocking
        to see him draped over the drum kit, looking
        like he's dead. They carry him off and he's totally
        limp.

        So they ask if there's a drummer in the house,
        and surprise surprise a whole bunch of drummers
        queue up, and it's on with the show.

        Wierd. Pete Townshend didn't seem very concerned
        about his drummer's health, he seemed to feel
        his music was so important.

        /hums 'Substitute'




#22 of 70 by scott on Sun Jul 7 00:37:25 2002:

Townshend was probably seriously pissed at Moon, and not in a mood to make
some sanctimonious comments for the camera.

Then again, the band I'm in has had a hell of time finding a drummer without
either a bad attitude, a substance abuse problem, or both, so I'm not feeling
especially generous towards drummers these days.  :(


#23 of 70 by russ on Sun Jul 7 04:18:19 2002:

Q:  What do you call somebody who acts like a musician, dresses like
    a musician, hangs out with musicians, but isn't a musician?

A:  A drummer.


#24 of 70 by jaklumen on Sun Jul 7 12:01:28 2002:

Yeah, if he was a real musician, he'd be a percussionist.


#25 of 70 by brighn on Sun Jul 7 16:09:39 2002:

(Phil Collins started as a drummer.)


#26 of 70 by slynne on Sun Jul 7 17:01:11 2002:

I have always wanted to learn how to play the drums. I have to admit 
though, if I were a drummer I would be the type with a bad attitude so 
I wouldnt be able to help out Scott. *snort* ;)


#27 of 70 by void on Sun Jul 7 21:05:39 2002:

   I'd offer to help Scott (I don't abuse substances, though my
attitude is sometimes questionable), but all I play is djembe.


#28 of 70 by orinoco on Mon Jul 8 01:22:08 2002:

Re #25: Case in point.  


#29 of 70 by brighn on Mon Jul 8 04:10:12 2002:

Mm. Jack White of White Stripes started as a drummer, and the lead singer of
Cowboy Mouth is the drummer. Both lesser known bands, granted, but neither
lacking in musical skills.


#30 of 70 by jaklumen on Mon Jul 8 07:10:02 2002:

resp:25  From what I've seen of Phil Collins, I'd count him as a 
percussionist.  He uses more goodies than just drums.


#31 of 70 by brighn on Mon Jul 8 13:38:22 2002:

#30> Mm. I think the drummer/percussionist distinction was introduced so that
any musically talented drummers that were offered as examples could be
reclassified as percussionists. Unconvincing.


#32 of 70 by jaklumen on Tue Jul 9 09:12:27 2002:

Are you a musician, dude?

Ummmmmmm.. I didn't think so.

Granted, I know there are plenty of talented "drummers" out there, 
really.  The real point is that the notion of a "drummer," particularly 
a typical, fledgling rock 'n roll drummer, is a rather limiting one.  
The really talented ones, I'm sure, know how to play more than just a 
drum set, and honestly, Phil Collins is a shining example.  That 
instrument family includes a lot more than just drums, and just because 
a drum set is a standard piece to a typical band, it doesn't mean 
that's all they play.

Karen Carpenter of the Carpenters was a drummer, too.


#33 of 70 by brighn on Tue Jul 9 12:45:25 2002:

I'm not a professional musician. I didn't realize that a recording contract
was needed to have an opinion on these matters.
 
I am fairly proficient at the dumbek and the djimbe. Playing a drum kit takes
more talent than playing the tambourine, which would qualify one as being a
"percussionist" (the tambourine is what they give people with no musical
instrument skills whatsoever, like Davey Jones).
 
(And next time you answer a question which you don't know the answer to, maybe
you should give the person you're asking an opportunity to answer before
answering for them.)


#34 of 70 by slynne on Tue Jul 9 15:21:05 2002:

doood. you better just stop dissing on Davey Jones *right now*


#35 of 70 by jor on Tue Jul 9 15:59:05 2002:

        Yea but it's OK to make drummer jokes.

        There a SNL skit where they are having an auction
        of Beatle memorabilia. Like, the *actual* toothbrush
        used by Paul McCartney one weekend in Amsterdam.

        And the people bid it up, every item is selling,
        until they bring out, on a handcart, a cardboard
        cutout of Ringo. 

        "This is the *actual* drummer used by the Beatles on all
        of their concerts and recordings" and people
        are already fumbling for their coats and getting up
        to leave. The drummer joke.

        On second glance that has to be the most 
        *lifelike* cardboard cutout anyone has ever
        seen, until it totally deadpans

        "Live, from New York . ."


#36 of 70 by brighn on Tue Jul 9 17:59:41 2002:

Was it meant to be a cutout, or was it meant to be Ringo himself, frozen in
place? I didn't see the sketch.
 
I'm not sure that qualifies as a drummer joke, though, as much as a joke on
the idea that Ringo was the talentless one (Starr did write a few songs, but
they were definitely among the least favorite... did he write "Act Naturally,"
or just sing it?).
 
Anyway, as far as musician sketches on SNL go, that one reminded me of when
Paul Simon was host, and while he's being interviewed, all these people come
up to him: the guy who sat in the front row, third from the left, at his
Madison Square Garden concert in 77, that sort of person, and Paul Simon
rattles off all these details. The sketch ends with Art Garfunkel (the real
one, in a cameo) walking by and greeting him, only to have Paul say, "I'm
sorry, do I know you?"
 
#34> Davey's cute. Davey's got a really pretty singing voice. Davey can't play
any instruments, so they gave him a tambourine, when they finally broke down
and let the other guys play. (That's not a dis on Davey, since he hadn't been
hired as a musician in the first place... two of them were
actors-turned-musicians [Davey and... Peter?], two of them were musicians
turned-actors [Michael, definitely, and maybe Micky?: I really don't remember
which of Peter and Micky were musicians, although Micky did like his MOOG].)
 
Ironically, or maybe predictably, the most musical of the Monkees left the
band the soonest.
 
(The online site I found informs me that Peter and Michael were the musicians,
with Michael even selling compositions before and during the show. Linda
Ronstadt's "Different Drum" [1968] was a Nesmith tune.)


#37 of 70 by oval on Tue Jul 9 18:40:43 2002:

stop dissing ringo too!



#38 of 70 by brighn on Tue Jul 9 19:19:23 2002:

ringo's my favorite of the Beatles. I can dis him if I want.


#39 of 70 by slynne on Tue Jul 9 20:39:30 2002:

Oh man. Next thing you know and he'll start dissing on John Denver or 
something. 


#40 of 70 by brighn on Tue Jul 9 21:16:22 2002:

now that you mention it...
 
John Denver's performance in "Oh God!" defined 70s geek chic, and made
Christians look like hopeless dweebs.


#41 of 70 by slynne on Tue Jul 9 21:23:28 2002:

But he sang that song about his grandma's featherbed which totally made 
up for that. 


#42 of 70 by brighn on Tue Jul 9 22:12:32 2002:

But then he went and skied into a tree.
 
Oh wait, that was Sonny Bono.
 
Wrong ultra-wholesome 70s geek. My bad.


#43 of 70 by scott on Tue Jul 9 22:30:54 2002:

The SNL sketch had them trying to auction off Ringo Starr himself (he was that
week's guest host) and getting no bids.

Playing a drum kit well is quite tricky.  It doesn't help we're looking for
good (up to our level) players, either.  Nor is there much money.  Hmm, that's
probably why we have problems.


#44 of 70 by mcnally on Tue Jul 9 22:32:25 2002:

  re #36:  I believe "Act Naturally" was a cover of a Buck Owens tune..


#45 of 70 by bru on Wed Jul 10 04:07:33 2002:

denver plowed his plane into the ocean, not his ski's into a tree.


#46 of 70 by brighn on Wed Jul 10 04:15:40 2002:

#44> Yes, looking it up, it was written by Johnny Russell and first recorded
by Buck Owens. I was actually going to mention "Octopus Garden" instead, but
I thought that was a Lennon/McCartney tune. It turns out *that* is a Starkey
composition.


#47 of 70 by mrmat on Wed Jul 10 10:49:59 2002:

Ringo has always been underrated as a drummer. He just wasn't flashy.


#48 of 70 by brighn on Wed Jul 10 13:32:15 2002:

Ringo wasn't flashy? Oh yeah, demure little Ringo Starr, the only one with
a stage name, and such an unassuming stage name at that. Heh. Ok. ;}


#49 of 70 by mrmat on Wed Jul 10 13:37:08 2002:

His playing style wasn't flashy, like a Keith Moon or John Bonham. 


#50 of 70 by brighn on Wed Jul 10 13:57:00 2002:

That I'll buy. He was a very low-key drummer. Actually, I'd say he was
probbaly doing closer to what the job of a drummer (as opposed to a
percussionist) really is: Provide an interesting but non-intrusive beat.


#51 of 70 by jaklumen on Wed Jul 10 17:30:01 2002:

Yeah.  I forget which Beatle movie it was (either Help or Hard Day's 
Night) in which it starts putting in a drum beat to another act.  
Pretty talented.

resp:36  Yes, I saw VH1's "Behind the Music."  Peter Tork had been a 
Greenwich Village musician (i.e. East Coast hippie), and Michael 
Nesmith was indeed a folk composer-musician.  They explained that 
Nesmith was really frustrated by the corporate machine, punching the 
wall when "Sugar Sugar" was offered to them (quite ironically, it was 
given to a band comprised of comic strip characters).  It was 
interesting to see "Video Killed the Radio Star" as well, in which they 
explain Nesmith's contribution to the launch of MTV.

Nesmith wasn't the most polished and proficient of composers; a lot of 
his Monkee tunes suffer in the light of what studio wizards were doing, 
and he wasn't a consistent hitmaker.  But he did have some talent.  
However, he didn't need to worry about money-- he was the heir of the 
fortune of the woman who invented paper clips.


#52 of 70 by slynne on Wed Jul 10 18:01:27 2002:

She didnt invent paper clips, she invented White Out or Liquid Paper (I 
forget which)


#53 of 70 by brighn on Wed Jul 10 18:19:42 2002:

Michael Nesmith's mother invented Liquid Paper.
 
The only Monkees movie, Head, deals almost exclusively with the issue of them
being little more than a commercial product. Its surrealism reminds me a lot
of Nesmith's later work, including the much more acerbic but about as strange
Estevez cult classic, "Repo Man."
 
The life of a repo man is *always* intense.


#54 of 70 by jmsaul on Wed Jul 10 18:25:37 2002:

Nesmith worked on Repo Man?


#55 of 70 by brighn on Wed Jul 10 18:35:38 2002:

He's listed as Executive Producer.


#56 of 70 by jmsaul on Wed Jul 10 18:39:11 2002:

Any idea what he actually did?  That title can mean a variety of things.


#57 of 70 by brighn on Wed Jul 10 18:54:35 2002:

Nope, no idea. Given that it does have a similar surrealism, it's hard to tell
whether he had some creative input, or just agreed to underwrite it because
he clicked with the script. It's definitely darker than the few other things
he's been involved with (although Head did have a few dark moments, like the
wraparound pseudosuicide of the band that it begins and ends with).


#58 of 70 by jaklumen on Thu Jul 11 06:55:31 2002:

resp:53  Whoops, that's right.

"Head".. I *loved* that movie, but I swear, Jack Nicholson and the 
others must have been on mondo drugs.


#59 of 70 by omni on Thu Jul 11 09:32:21 2002:

   John Denver was the idiot who ripped on Toledo for being boring.


   Ok, it is, but he didnt have to write a song about it.


#60 of 70 by brighn on Thu Jul 11 13:24:43 2002:

I think my favorite bit is where Peter apes back the words of the guru,
talking about the nature of reality for a few minutes before concluding with,
"But why ask me, for I know nothing." Instead of being as wowed by Peter as
Peter was with the guru, the other Monkees get disgusted and slap him around.


#61 of 70 by slynne on Thu Jul 11 13:48:38 2002:

I loved their "pad"


#62 of 70 by jmsaul on Thu Jul 11 13:57:00 2002:

Re #59:  I grew up in Toledo, and we were never offended by that.


#63 of 70 by russ on Fri Jul 12 01:17:32 2002:

Re #49, #50:  As I recall from listening to Beatles tunes (which I seldom
do any more), Ringo almost NEVER did anything other than keep time.  I'm
familiar with exactly one drum solo on a tune that gets airplay, and it's
hardly an artistic tour de force.  I guess he supports the stereotype.


#64 of 70 by scott on Fri Jul 12 01:27:54 2002:

Ringo does what few musicians ever manage to do:  Be reliable, solid, and
never blow his part by trying to be a flashy player.

Listen to Steely Dan albums, and reflect on the fact that the players they
used were typically 10 times better than the parts they were playing.  The
result is that those parts are nearly perfect.  It's tough to get really good
players to limit themselves to a simple part.


#65 of 70 by jaklumen on Fri Jul 12 10:44:29 2002:

btw, is this linked to the music cf, Scott?


#66 of 70 by mynxcat on Fri Jul 12 15:07:44 2002:

This response has been erased.



#67 of 70 by scott on Fri Jul 12 17:45:57 2002:

No, actually it isn't..  I'll fix that soon enough.


#68 of 70 by mynxcat on Fri Jul 12 18:39:18 2002:

This response has been erased.



#69 of 70 by tpryan on Sat Jul 13 00:17:21 2002:

        Okay, who is the one with Liquid Paper on their monitor?


#70 of 70 by krj on Sat Dec 7 05:07:32 2002:

Tonight the CD burner has started producing discs with clicks about 
half the time.  I suppose it's possible that this actually represents
the looming failure of our 15-year-old primary CD player, but no 
manufactured discs are skipping.

Separate copy runs from the same source disk will produce 
different results: some skip and some don't.

Unfortunately everything in the computer has changed recently.
We rebuilt the Windows 2000 system on an 80 gig disc.  
The old 10 gig system had Easy CD Creator 5 basic from a Plextor 
2.00 disc.  When the Plextor 40/12/24 USB drive which came with that 
2.00 disc was destroyed, we got a 40/12/40 USB drive; we didn't install 
the 2.01 disc which came with the new drive because the old software worked.  

On the new 80 gig system, however, I could not get the Plextor 2.00
version of Easy CD Creator to recognize the 40/12/40 Plextor drive, 
so I had to "upgrade" to 2.01.  Sigh.  

Things were working so well...


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