I'm just curious to see if any other serious fans of progressive rock are in Grex. Some progressive rock artists include Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Marrilion, and my personal favorite, Fish (Yes, spelled with an 'F'.). I'm more interested in the more obscure bands, but if you have anything to say on the matter, feel free...98 responses total.
*sigh* More music that I should catch up on..and I have so very little disposable income :( Elaborate.. I am very aware Pink Floyd was doing far-out stuff in the 70's, but how are they now?
Cool, I like this item!
Well some familiar bands to add to the list would be Styx, Yes, ELP,
Jethro Tull, Moody Blues, The Alan Parsons Project, Genesis, Queen,
Supertramp, Todd Rundgren...
Some less familiar acts would be Ozric Tentacles, Mike Oldfield, Manfred
Mann's Earth Band, The Mission (U.K.), Tears For Fears, The The, World
Party...
One that would fall in partially in this category, but probaby in a lot
of others, would be Steely Dan...
I'm working off a definition of "progressive rock" as music with ambitious
structure, possible classical leanings and symphonic involvement, high
literary/thematic/symbolic content, longer pieces, etc.
I doubt I'd really lump Steely Dan in with progressive rock, although I suppose I can see a couple of similarities. I went through a big King Crimson phase when I first discovered them around seven or eight years ago. I still like them and listen to their albums occasionally but have mostly moved on to other stuff for my more frequent listening and for the most part have been disappointed with the releases from the band's latest incarnation. They're probably the only one of the mainline progressive rock bands that I ever really got into. I've got a recommendation for a great album most people haven't heard (or ever heard *of* or seen, for that matter..) It may or may not fall into the "progressive rock" category but I think most people would like it who like that sort of music.. The album is called "Spirit of Eden" from the British band Talk Talk [some of you are probably thinking -- "didn't they have a couple of forgettable synth-pop hits in the 80s?" well, yes, but this album Isn't Like That. Trust me. The bad news is that it's probably only available as an import but I really do recommend it (but do not give a blanket recommendation for all of their stuff..)]
I agree Mark, good item. I really love Pink Floyd. That is, I love everything of theirs I've heard. Which does not include any post Roger Waters Floyd (well, I heard the live album from their first post Waters tour...it was okay). For those of you out there, who are fans of Pink Floyd, and haven't heard any pre _Dark Side Of The Moon_ Floyd, you're really missing out on some out there stuff. I'm still looking for the More soundtrack, and the _Live AT Pompeii_ album, but their other early stuff I've heard, and it's incredible. Syd Barrett's insanity is evident on their first album _Piper At The Gates Of Dawn_. I'm not too familiar with King Crimson, but I've heard so much about them, I really *need* to check 'em out. By the way, Jon, Pink Floyd's most far out stuff was done in '67, '68, and '69. their 70's stuff was mellow and mainstream (in comparison).
Yeah, I haven't had much of a chance to listen to Pink Floyd, but what I have heard (bits and pieces of 'The Wall') I really liked. I am interested in the classical roots of many of these artists. I often wonder just who they are drawing stuff from. It strikes me that the likes of Stravinsky, Ives, and Briton influence them more than Bach or Mozart. Note the 'more than'; I'm not saying that progressive rock artists weren't influenced at all by them, just not as much... <Cricket goes off to mumble something under his breath. Ramble Ramble>
You see--- I haven't even heard 'The Wall' yet! Mark mentioned some great bands I had forgotten were progressive. I'm just too poor to catch up-- my music collection sucks and I have little disposable income. (lumen is a formal music student-- and that can be expensive enough)
Tef, you are *borrowing* my The Wall. Tomorrow. You have no choice dear. (I bought this cd after listening to 30 sec. of it that Dan put on a mix tape. I figured that if I liked the 30 sec. that much, the rest of it should be fine. And It was. <smile>)
Tricia, for some reason I can't really clearly explain, I'm not a big fan of the wall. This album was mostly Roger Waters, meaning that he wrote the entire thing. The members of the band, at the time of _The Wall_ were seriously at odds with each other (well, mainly Gilmore and Waters). This album just doesn't convey a sense that they enjoyed playing together any more (and indeed, after one other album that Waters also entirely wrote, _The Final Cut_, Waters left the Floyd). Jon, for a first Floyd album, I highly recommend _Dark Side Of The Moon_, _Animals_, or _Wish You Were Here_.
Actually I believe Bob Ezrin helped write a great deal of the Wall with Roger. The studio legends are that many of the guitar solos and such on the record weren't even played by Gilmour but by one of Ezrin's many oft-used studio cats. It is well known that Ezrin uses lots of anonymous studio cats on albums which he works, but this fact was extremely downplayed for the Wall.
Okay, you're right, Christopher. I should have said that Roger was the only member of Floyd who wrote songs for the album. I didn't know that about Bob's "studio cats". I'm sure they tried their best to downplay it for _The Wall_. I assume David played all the songs during the small handfull of shows theyu did on _The Wall_ tour.
i've never been a real big floyd fan.
RE#10 -- Yeah I guess he learned the parts. :-) Although using "behind the scenes" musicinas in live shows is another not that uncommon practice that doesn't get discussed much. It really messes with the illusions eh?
_The Final Cut_ was actually material culled from _The Wall_ sessions. Personally, although I like _The Wall_ a great deal, _The Final Cut_ is even more impressive to me, mainly because it is more concise. Gilmour, himself, does lots of studio work (Bryan Ferry, Pete Townshend, Kate Bush...), so it wouldn't surprise me that he worked with other studio musicians on projects, including _The Wall_. I prefered Floyd before Waters left, as he's a brilliant lyricist. It seemed, however, that his desire to pursue cetain projects was pursued with such zeal as to turn off the other members, so it's probably for the best that they parted ways. I do think that the other members gave Waters' material a little more solid ground, and Waters gave their music good intellectual flight, so I miss their group material. One of albums that displayed a comfortable mix of their personalities is _Meddle_, which I highly recommend. They shared a lot of the songrwiting and musical responsibilities, there, and it seemed that they got along much better, then.
Some other groups to add to the progressive rock fold: Red Rider and Saga, two Canadian bands. Red Rider was responsible for "Lunatic Fringe", which can be found as a bonus track on the cool _Neruda_ album (in CD form). Their lead vocalist and guitarist, Tom Cochrane, went on to record the nauseatingly overplayed "Life is a Highway". Saga's claim to fame is "On the Loose", a tune that got some airplay in the early 80s...
It's interesting, I'm not much of a Floyd fan either but I do get mistaken for one a lot, because I wear a Division Bell t-shirt that I got used for a costume in a play I was in. As it turns out, Division Bell is widely hated among Pink Floyd fans...how was I to know? I still like the shirt though. I'm definitely a King Crimson fan, although also not as fanatical as I once was. They were the first band that I was a real fan of, and the first actual interesting rock music that I listened to, and there was a while when Crimson albums vastly outnumbered the rest of my CD collection. This is no longer the case, but I still do like them, especially _Starless and Bible Black_ and _Beat_. Marillion and Fish, I've picked up some of teflon's fanaticism for. I've heard - and loved - Marillion's album _Script for a Jester's Tear_, and a few Fish songs. Yet another band that I should look into more, but lack of time and money.
Hmmm.. I think "Starless and Bible Black" is the King Crimson album I like least (at least of the pre-Vrooom stuff..) My personal prefs are for "Lizard" and "Beat"..
Haven't heard Lizard...(this conversation sounds mighty familiar, actually)... Yeah, _Beat_ is the first one I heard, and still what immediately springs to mind when I think of King Crimson. _Starless_ I hated at first, except for Fracture, but it really does grow on you. Or on me, at least.
I have a theory which holds that everyone ends up hating the music they listened to when they were sixteen years old. When I was sixteen, I listened to Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, ELP, and Yes. So I'll just sort of sit this one out... :)
I ain't everyone :P
Hmm...well, I must say, Ken, you did have good taste as a 16-year-old. <wonders what went wrong :) >
re #19: give it time.. I certainly can't serve as a counter-example to Ken's postulate and believe that it makes a certain amount of sense..
As a sixteen year old, I dare say that I like the stuff well enough now. I certainly hope that doesn't change, 'though I dare say it might if I go and over-play the stuff. The main problem with that theory is this: I like almost every kind of music, which means, according to your postulate, that I will become an exclusively Rap/R&B fan when I'm older. Now, it is concievable that I might grow to like them, but dislike the other stuff? Not likely.
Dan, I consider myself a serious Pink Floyd fan, and I don't despise _Division Bell_ (of course, I've never heard it). ;->
I didn't mean to derail the progressive rock discussion; I'll start a new item for the drift about age if necessary.
Well, I don't know. Some guy at Community was berating me the other day about how it's an evil sell-out album and I should go listen to _Piper at the Gates of Dawn_. Not having heard either, I don't have much to say.
It's just that while Gilmour professed to want to continue Floyd for artistic reasons, they've spent more time re-issuing and repackaging old material than actually making new music: two new albums versus two live albums, one box set, one series of digital remasters, and one _Dark Side of the Moon_ anniversary release. And the music they've put together recently is about the equivalent of aural wallpaper. Sounds more like business, than art, to me...
By the way, which one's Pink?
<Tee hee>
By the way, I misused the word 'postulate' didn't I? <Cricket mumbles something about "Y'know, I just hate it when people try to make themselves look smart by useing big words. Damn.">
re #21: There is music I loved as a little kid that I love all the more now, and also, I have a theory that Depeche Mode serves a manic-depressive's taste well, so there's little chance I will EVER give them up. They were just singing my song too well, and they still do..
Depeche Mode is too cool for me, these days...
Maybe. Ultra does smack of a little trendiness, but i still like it.
Oh, wow! I just bought Fish's latest album from SKR (On sale now at only 14.99!). It's called "Sunsets Over Empire", and it's abso-bally-lutly brillient! It's far, far cooler than his previous album (that was released in the US), "Internal Exile", which was cool, but didn't strike me as being as good as it could have been. Most of it struck me as formulaic, almost pop. But "Sunsets" fixes all of that, and more. Yes, Dan, it's coming to your party tonight, and I'm going to force all of you to listen to it... As for the rest of you, it has gotten a fairly wide US release, so I insist you all run out and buy it... It even has a music video that you can play from your computer (I haven't figured out how to get it to run smoothly yet, but Oh Well).
Hmmm, intersting. I might like to hear that one.
Well, it _didn't_ come, and I _haven't_ heard it. Bring it in to Commie Monday and we can inflict it on the student center.
Sorry, I was in such a hurry out the door to go to the Indigo Girls concert
that I completely forgot it. I will indeed bring it to the SC Monday.
Bu-ha-haa... Actually, though, I'm a little bit hesitant to do that, being
as it doesn't really make for good background music. As for you, Mark Z.,
Please do ('though if you can get your hands on a copy of "Script for a
Jesters
>Tear", by Marrillion, Fish's old band, you might want get that instead. It's
every bit as good as "Sunsets", plus it has the superb instrumental work of
the rest of Marillion.)
I've hear _Script For a Jester's Tear_, and _Misplaced Childhood_. I think I've also heard _Fugazi_ and _Clutching at Straws_. The first two are my faves...
Lucky. You've heard more Marrillion stuff than I have. Oh well, I'm young yet. Basically, I buy/reserve anything of thiers that I find in used music stores.
_Script..._ and _Misplaced Childhood_ are definitely top-tier stuff. _Fugazi_ is good, too.
I've been looking into Fugazi... I've got a promise for a late B-Day present of "Vigil in a Wilderness of Mirrors", which, BTW, is at SKR for a hugely bloated price, but I'm currently consolodating my cashes to make a donation to Marillions "Tour Fund". Which incedently means signing me up for a "Tour Fund CD", recorded live in Rochester, NY, by Marillion. All H stuff, but still looks to be pretty cool. And if I'm making a donation to a great band? All the better!
I thought that Fugazi kept the price of all their albums down to $9 or $10 per CD... ?
We're talking about the band Marillion, which has an album called _Fugazi_, not the band, Fugazi...
<Smile!>
Ah, the confusion continues. Does 'Fugazi' have some significance that they're both referring to, perchance?
I recall hearing that "fugazi" was supposed to mean "messed up". I assume that if it came from any language, it would be Japanese. But I'm not sure...
Ah...
Okay, I was saving this one until December, to spare you the agony of one more Chistmas thing to hassle with while the leaves were still green... I'm sure you heard the progressive take on holiday tunes from last year, courtesy of the Trans-Siberian Orchestra. I spotted this in good numbers in Meijer's, a few weeks ago. Not sure I want to hear a whole album of progressive holiday tunes, but, then again, what I heard so far was kinda cool...
Prog-rock holiday tunes? At sail at Mejer? I'll reserve comment...
No..I'm interested. I can't imagine progressive acts doing holiday stuff, especially some alternative acts. Synth bands? Hmmm...maybe Erasure or Pet Shop Boys, but DM..? ehehehhehe. btw, what *is* defined as progressive today?
Any band that started in the 70's that's still recording today? :-) No, not really, but I kindof agree that I don't know what "progressive" means for new bands, it's not a genre that I tend to think of as one that new artists enter.
I have a CD by a Seattle band called The Puddle Jumpers which desperately wants to be 70's progressive. (A 1996 release.)
Oh, I think they're defunct now, but there was an interesting band called Echolyn that was doing the prog rock thing in the 90s...
I typically use this yardstick for progressive rock... Any bands that attempt ambitious arrangement with high symbolic content and attention to fidelity with a core guitar/synth/bass/drum setup usually qualify.
I guess I'd say a progressive band is one that wants to do more with a rock lineup than make rock songs (and money).
wow! an even broader definition than mine..
Thinking about it, though, it doesn't really work. I mean, there's also a certain _sound_ that you associate with Prog Rock - very epic, very synth-and-guitar. So there are some bands doing very creative things in a rock framework that don't really have that sound, and I don't know if I'd call them Prog or not.
I pulled a rather large fuzzy ball of fugazi out of my bellybutton this morning. Imagine my surprise!!
How does Ian like your bellybutton?
(sigh)
Looks like Yes has a new album out. Haven't really heard much of their stuff after _Union_. As much as I like Jon Anderson's distinctive voice, I've found his solo albums somewhat disappointing. In fact, they've gotten downright weird. So, I'm glad to see he's back at it with the gang (or at least Steve Howe and a few others).
Apparently, there's now a _Tubular Bells III_ in the works from Mike Oldfield. This has never really been my favorite vein of Oldfield, although I saw him perform _Tubular Bells 2_ live.
I'd thought that was more new-agey stuff...
Oldfield is often placed in new age sections because of his heavy use of synthesizers. But he really sits more squarely in the progressive rock field, as he plays guitar, himself, and many of his pieces are longer and more intricate.
(ah, if i only had the money...)
I'll have to take a look at that...
what tef said..
I've got some classic prog rock that you'll have to check out, sometime. Good stuff.
Ya talkin' to me? I'm still too poor to buy much music for myself, lately.. A sample tape sometime would be nice..
As we drift closer and closer to another gulf war, I find myself listening to Roger Waters' _Amused to Death_ (1992) more and more.
Yeah? How's that? Also, I found a really great website for any who happen to be interested in Prog Rock. I don't have the address on me right now, but I'll post it shortly...
The address is as follows: http://prog.ari.net/prog/GEPR/gepr.html It is the "Gibralter Encyclopedia of Progressive Rock," and it has reveiws of bands w/some history, subcatagory listings & definitions, etc...
re 69: That also reminds me of Susan Urban's Gulf War song: "Only 100 died".
Interesting. Have to check that one out sometime.
I'm thinking that Tori Amos is basically "progressive rock", when you get down to it. Discuss...
Why do you say that? I'm curious, now!
Hmm... I guess it depends on what you mean by 'progressive rock'. By the definition I seem to remember posting a while back, something about 'trying to do something artistic and original with rock music', I guess some of her music would qualify. But now I'm rethinking that definition. I mean, does that make the White Album, or even Pet Sounds, examples of prog rock? Jimi Hendrix? Miles Davis? Elvis? "Hmm" indeed....
"Generally, 'progressive' denotes a form of rock music in which electric
instruments and rock-band formats are integrated with European classical
motifs and orchestrations, typically forming extended, intricate,
multisectional suites....accenting a daunting instrumental virtuosity and
grandiosity over directness....sometimes also known as 'art rock'."
-- _The Rolling Stone Ency. of Rock and Roll_ (1983)
ed. John Pareles and Patricia Romanowski
Hey folks, I just got ahold of a new album by a group called _Gentle Giant_,
who, as I understand it, were in many ways the quintesence of 70's Prog. The
album of which I am now a proud possessor is "Octopus" perhaps named so
because it contains but eight tracks? I've only had the chance to listen to
it once, so I haven't fully formulated my oppion on them yet. I bought it
on the recomendations of the good folks at the GEPR, which I mentioned
earlier. What I can tell you of them; they use extreemly complex harmonies,
many of which sound impossible to do out of a studio (although, as I
understand it, they did do it live), a variaty if instuments, including a
Moog, what ever that is, and any number of Midiaeval instruments. In fact,
that seems to be their main bent; towards fusing Rock and Midiaeval music.
Some of their songs are positively odd, like their first song, "The Advent
of Panurge"--can anybody tell me what they are reffering to?. They remind
me, as most good prog I've heard does, of most other 70's prog bands I've
heard, most notably Early King Crimson and Genesis.
Speaking of Genesis, I'm ashamed to note that I failed to mention that
I've got two of their early albums also; _Selling England By the Pound_, and
_The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway_, both released in the early seventies. They
really only became mainstream after Peter Gabriel left them and Phil Collins
took the lead. That stuff isn't bad, but the earlier albums are terrific,
and yes folks, _very_ progressive (would that mean that the turn towards
commersiallism makes them Regressive?). _Lamb Lies Down on Broadway_ is a
fine example of their earlier work; it is a double album, with a full story
upon which the music is based in the liner notes. In short, a concept album,
which is very prog indeed.
Y'know, one of my friends, while getting a ride (and thus a dose of my music)
in my car asked me if I listened to any normal music at all. It was a
strange, yet proud feeling to realize that the answer to his question was
"no."
Gentle Giant! I used to listen to them many years ago. Try to get a copy of "Free Hand." They do weird vocal tricks like trying to sing falsetto as low as possible. BTW, the Moog was one of the first commercially available synthesizers used by rock keyboardists.
Thanks. I'll look for that. I've also been looking for a copy of "In a Glass House," which is apparently out of print. I know one place where I can get a used vinal for $25, but I think I'll just wait for Polygram's re-release in 1999 (not to far away now). Somebody asked a while back about new prog. bands. I actually know of one, a group called "Porcupine Tree," which is mostly led be Steve Wilson, an English chap. I've got two of their albums, and they are very good. What do they sound like? Well, I've heard critic-like folks call them the new torch-holders for Pink Floyd, but I think that might be a little mis-leading, as their albums are mostly instrumental, with the occational vocal. They are heavelly electronic, and are the kind of thing you might expect to hear on "Hearts in Space," if it weren't for the fact that they have a very rock edge.
Oooh. A likely candidate for the "Hearts in Space" show? Sounds like I should check 'em out.
You'll probably have to special order or something of that nature if you want it... They're (yet another) obscure English band.
Re 'panurge': (or, the Greek Geek sounds off)
Okay, I know some early Christian 'heretics' said the world had been created,
not by God, but by a false creator named 'demiurge'. The 'urge' in that name
comes from the Greek 'ourgos', which I seem to remember means 'creator'.
("Demiourgos" is Grek means 'craftsman', I know that much for sure)
So, I'm guessing that 'panurge' means 'creator-of=-everything'.
And meanwhile, it sounds like I need to hear these guys.
Yah, I'll make you a tape or something. Could you come up with anything for "Pantagruel"? He's the other charector in that song. As I understand it, they are both giants... probably refering back to the bands name?
cf. "Gargantua and Pantagruel" (Rabelais)
Gentle Giant's FREE HAND was a favorite LP of mine back when I had some inclinations towards "progressive rock," 25 years ago or so. Hmm, I wonder where that LP is.
The Readers' Encyclopedia sez: Pantagruel: ...The name, meaning "all-thirsty," had originally been given to a little sea devil in the 15th-century mystery plays who threw salt into the mouths of drunks to stimulate their thirst... Panurge (Gr. "all-doer"). In Rabelais' _Gargantua and Pantagruel_, the high-spirited rogue who becomes Pantagruel's companion.
Yup that's definately what they are refering to, Dan, thank you.
That's some literate lyrics you've got there, boy :) I'l definitely need to give 'em a listen sometime.
Well, my good chap, I'll be able to get you a tape of the album soon. As for the lyrics, I suggest that you look 'em up at www.blazemonger.com/GG/, the official web site. The lyrics of "Knots" are particularly interesting.
You guys are really breaking a sweat over here on this conference! Bravo! Who was in Gentle Giant, btw? I would assume some of those folks moved on to other things. Thanks for all the definitions, Dan!
Derek (mumble mumble) from Gentle Giant moved on to become a record industry executive. Can't remember the guy's last name.
Shulman. His brother, Ray was also in the band, and another brother Phil, was for a while before a big break-up. Before that they were members of a pop/r&b band called "Simon Dupree and the Big Sound". Other band members of note; Gary Green, guitrars (any instrumentals I list are only one of many... These guys were multi-talented), Kerry Minear, a classically trained composer; did keyboards and vocals (he split the vocals with Derick), and John Weathers, drums. This was the classic lineup, (Shulman, Shulman, Green, Minear, and Weathers) and the best, 'though they did have a couple other drummers before Weathers. In other prog-related news, Fish is planning a tour in the USA this summer, durring August and September. I fully inteand to go to at least one show. His newest album, _Raingods With Zippos_ will be realeased in the the USA on april 20. Both Fish and GG have excelent websites (The official GG one is maintained by a big fan) and I highly recomend them. They are packed with all sorts of interesting information.
update: Fish comes to Pontiac, MI, on July 28, and his newest album is well worth listening to, if only for "Plague of Ghosts", a six-part suite which takes up the whole second half of the album. I also just got done reading a book on prog. rock, called "Rocking the Classics, English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture", by Edward Macan. It's the most comprehensive history, definition, etc, of the subject I've come accross. The section in which he systematically dismantles most of the major critics complaints about the genre is particularly interesting. Question, besides Ozrics Tenticals, which was mentioned some time back, does anybody know of any contemporary prog. bands. I know of a few: Spock's Beard, Djam Karat, Hermetic Science, and Edhals, from France. Of these, bands, I've only heard anything by Hermetic Science, which is interesting because it features a mallet artist.
WHAT?! You got Raingods w/Zippos and didn't tell me?! I'm shocked. Shocked and appalled. <grin> You'll need to play it for me sometime.
Sorry, Dan. Further update: Fish's North America has been canceled, or at least postponed.
What?! (Hey Josh, you think our roadtrip fund could get us to Scotland?... :)
I went looking for reviews of the Edward Macan book (resp:94) on the web and it looks interesting. I'll have to go see if I can browse a copy at Borders to see if I want to pursue it further.
You have several choices: