Grex Music2 Conference

Item 66: The King Is Gone--Or _Is_ He? The Elvis Presley Item

Entered by bruin on Thu Aug 14 13:31:44 1997:

Saturday, August 16, 1997, marks the 20th anniversary of the death of Elvis
Presley.  Therefore, we have an item to discuss the man better known as "The
King," his contributions to America's pop culture, and what you may have been
doing if you were around (at the time) when you first heard that Elvis was
dead (or if you saw Elvis recently, as some people believe he is still alive
and hiding out somewhere).
41 responses total.

#1 of 41 by senna on Thu Aug 14 20:49:53 1997:

He didn't die.  He went home.


#2 of 41 by tpryan on Fri Aug 15 01:01:50 1997:

        We celebrate King Day in January don't we?  For Elvis' birthday?


#3 of 41 by orinoco on Fri Aug 15 01:42:42 1997:

When was Elvis' birthday, anyway?


#4 of 41 by lumen on Fri Aug 15 04:00:07 1997:

Oh, Elvis is dead all right-- he was just so larger-than-life as a star that
people won't let him be dead.  A true legend.  He'll be in the folklore
that historians will study *millenia* from now.


#5 of 41 by void on Fri Aug 15 07:39:19 1997:

   when i first heard that elvis presley had died, i was in the wayback of
a station wagon heading from chelsea to metro airport.  not ever having
been much of an elvis fan (and also being eleven at the time), i was
somewhat ambivalent.  it was sad that he had died, but it didn't really
affect me personally one way or the other.


#6 of 41 by bruin on Fri Aug 15 13:26:07 1997:

RE #3 Elvis Aron Presley was born January 8, 1935, in Tupelo, 
Mississippi.


#7 of 41 by omni on Sat Aug 16 04:24:04 1997:

  OK, my thoughts on Elvis.

  I believe he was overexposed, overmarketed, and generally shoved down the
throats of the teenagers of the 50s and 60s. I am not a fan, although there
are a few of Elvis' songs that I really like, and even sing along with, but
in no way am I a fan. He's like comparing a Cadillac to a Packard.
  I believe that Buddy Holly, had he NOT been killed in that plane crash would
have made everyone forget about that kid from Mississippi. 

  No one ever wrote a song like American Pie to Elvis, the way Don McLean did
for Buddy. 

  I believe if Ritchie Valens would have lived, he'd probably be a Dylan-esque
rocker. 


#8 of 41 by mcnally on Sat Aug 16 19:58:36 1997:

  I'm convinced that as a post-boomer I'm just not culturally equipped to
  understand Elvis worship..  I can admit that he made some good music and
  some enjoyable, if extremely-cheesey movies, but the notion that Elvis
  was the "King" of anything simply Does Not Compute..


#9 of 41 by scott on Sat Aug 16 22:48:25 1997:

Gotta go back to the really early recordings to hear it.  The Vegas stuff was
the beginning of the end.  But as far as bringing "race music" into the
mainstream, Elvis was The Man.  Too bad about Buddy Holly, because he was
doing it too.  But not in the same way.


#10 of 41 by jiffer on Sun Aug 17 01:41:36 1997:

remeber to leave out your fried banana sandwhiches tonight and the King might
leave you a present! A tub of lard for ones hair is the rare and ultimate
gift.


#11 of 41 by orinoco on Sun Aug 17 02:14:14 1997:

I've heard the early recordings.  They're decent, I suppose, but if I had to
pick a single performer to idolize, rave about, wait for the 'second coming'
of, and so forth, Elvis would *not* be the one.


#12 of 41 by lumen on Sun Aug 17 04:17:14 1997:

re #5: Since I am of the second wave of Generation X, I had a similar
experience when John Lennon was killed.  But then again, I was only in the
first grade at the time..

Scott and Jim hit on a point.  While Elvis was not talented much as a musician
(he just sang what was given him), he was EXTREMELY marketable, and still is,
from what I gather.  In person, he was a young man any mother or grandmother
could have easily adored-- he was said to be very polite, good-natured, and
even-tempered.  He liked animals and animals liked him.  He had enoromous sex
appeal early in his career.  He translated well to the big screen-- although
he *cannot* act, his movies have been dubbed into several languages.

I agree wholeheartedly that Buddy Holly was by far more talented, and
noteworthy.  But Elvis had an image that the music industry and Hollywood
needed, and that was easy for them to shape and mold.

Myself, I'll be glad when Elvis myth and cultdom finally dies.


#13 of 41 by senna on Sun Aug 17 05:08:12 1997:

It never will, Jon.  It's best to put up with it and let it go on.


#14 of 41 by omni on Sun Aug 17 05:27:16 1997:

 Senna is right. Til it does die, just play Buddy's "Not Fade Away" extra loud
on Aug 16. ;)

 Buddy was more of an influence. If you were listening, I believe it was Paul
McCartney or Lennon that said they were greatly influenced by Buddy, and later
to a lesser extent Elvis. But if you listen to some of the Beatles songs, you
can hear Buddy's influence. 
 
 I think when the antropologists sort it all out, they will find that people
like Bob Dylan, Buddy Holly, Bo Diddley, Elvis and The Beatles were the real
fathers of the phenomenon of rock and roll music.


Long Live Buddy Holly, Long live Rock & Roll!


#15 of 41 by omni on Sun Aug 17 05:31:52 1997:

  One more thing to add. 

  Elvis was mostly a recording artist. Buddy was a writer, producer, arranger,
engineer, and recording artist. It came from the sound in his head, not what
someone told him what to do. Elvis lacked that quality. Mozart was the same
way. He heard it and wrote it down. Who knows how many more symphonies,
operas, etc there would have been had he lived beyond 35? 


#16 of 41 by krj on Sun Aug 17 05:35:53 1997:

To understand the impact of Elvis Presley in the 1950's, it would 
probably be instructive to dig a bit into what other pop music 
white suburban Americans were listening to in that era.


#17 of 41 by lumen on Sun Aug 17 07:48:02 1997:

Thanks again, Jim-- you articulated perfectly the small details I did not
know.  I had assumed he was a composer, etc., but I didn't say anything to
that effect.  Nice to have people who honestly know :)

Man, I wish I had learned this in my music appreciation class :)


#18 of 41 by scott on Sun Aug 17 13:49:30 1997:

Elvis did have a lot of talent.  He was the one who brought in the R&B tunes
to sing, and he played piano and guitar.  Granted he wasn't up to the Buddy
Holly standard, but he wasn't Milli Vanilli or Whitney Houston either.


#19 of 41 by orinoco on Sun Aug 17 17:21:19 1997:

Well, I'll grant you that Elvis may have seemed a lot more spectacular in the
context of what else was going on during the '50s.  That's something I can't
really comment on from personal experience, tho...


#20 of 41 by omni on Sun Aug 17 17:50:20 1997:

re 17, Thank you. I learned what I know from reading and listening to music.

  Does anyone recall who started the sitar mania in the early 70's? 
George Harrison did, after taking lessons from Ravi Shankar. It seems
that after the Beatles did a song with a sitar, there was an explosion of
groups that followed.
  I consider George Harrison to be one of the finest guitar players in the
world, right after Stevie Ray.


#21 of 41 by anderyn on Sun Aug 17 20:52:16 1997:

Just a note --- we've postulated that there will be a cult of Elvii 
far into the future, like it or not.


#22 of 41 by orinoco on Sun Aug 17 23:30:42 1997:

FWIW, read "Elvissey", by Jack Womack - it's about an alternate universe in
which Elvis is a God figure.


#23 of 41 by omni on Mon Aug 18 03:16:55 1997:

 Oh Gawd. Probably right along the lines of Brave New World.


#24 of 41 by lumen on Mon Aug 18 21:41:01 1997:

Regarding #19:  Indeed, I'm sure things had been fairly quiet until he came
along.


#25 of 41 by orinoco on Mon Aug 18 23:50:53 1997:

Hmm...sort of, omni.  I never got around to finishing reading it.


#26 of 41 by senna on Tue Aug 19 08:09:58 1997:

Elvis wasn't just music, he was image.  People remember the image more than
the music, and that's what he did for rock n roll.  

George's guitar work doesn't impress me overmuch.  There are plenty of others
who are more adept.


#27 of 41 by omni on Tue Aug 19 13:07:15 1997:

 Of course there is Eddie Van Halen ;)


#28 of 41 by senna on Tue Aug 19 21:56:15 1997:

Such as Eddie Van Halen.


#29 of 41 by lumen on Wed Aug 20 01:49:04 1997:

That's not fair-- Eddie Van Halen is among the most technically skilled
players, so *everyone* suffers when they are compared to him.

Personally, I get tired of guitarists when they place so much emphasis on
competition, especially in the technique area.  Harrison isn't an amzing
player, but he's nice to listen to.

For that matter, when we the lasxt time you heard someone who was a wizard
at playing the flamenco style?  *That* is some difficulty.


#30 of 41 by omni on Wed Aug 20 02:30:51 1997:

  I believe Hector Elizondo, of Chicago Hope is an accoplished flamenco
player.

  How about the likes of:
Chet Atkins
Mark Knofler <sp>
Jimi Hendrix
or Lester and Earl (Flatt and Scruggs)


#31 of 41 by orinoco on Wed Aug 20 16:04:37 1997:

Well, technique for it's own sake isn't a worthy goal, but it's sure a good
means to an end.  What lumen said - Harrison isn't technically brilliant, but
he's still my favorite Beatle.


#32 of 41 by lumen on Thu Aug 21 01:58:43 1997:

Lester and Earl?  Didn't they pioneer banjo picking styles?  As for Hendrix,
guitarists I've talked to note him for his experimentation, but not
necessarily for his techinical superiority.


#33 of 41 by omni on Thu Aug 21 14:56:28 1997:

 I forget which one played the banjo, and which one played the guitar,
However, I did see something on TNN about a man who is can be called a master.
Roy Clark, who as I heard, can play in any style he cares.


#34 of 41 by scott on Thu Aug 21 16:07:56 1997:

Tommy Tedesco.  He is (was?) one of the studio heavyweights.  Any guitar-like
instrument, any style.  For the short run of Martin Mull's talk show
("Fernwood Tonight") he played the bandleader.

Earl Scruggs played banjo, and there is at least one book by him on the style
he uses.


#35 of 41 by lumen on Thu Aug 21 22:18:34 1997:

Right-- most banjo teachers teach the Scruggs method.  That would mean Lester
is the guitar player.  As for Roy Clark, he had been a staple of the "Hee Haw"
country variety show for years, and I'm sure he had been playing for years.
By the way, shouldn't this discussion thread be tied to Jovan's item about
musicians, techniques, and styles?


#36 of 41 by tpryan on Sun Aug 24 16:22:07 1997:

        There are a lot of songs Elvis only played *once* - to record
this chaf as filler for the many movie soundtrack albums that needed
to be put out with the movie.  While there are Elvis fans that would
be able to pick out one that is on their fave list, that fact remains
that in the Elvis archives, a lot of tunes are uninspired/unperspired.
Usually only the title theme is what would make it to the 'really
learned, rehearsed and used in a concert setting.  Elvis did compose
a few words/music, but as we noted above, mostly found, or had song
found for him to sing.
        Now some of the others we respect, Buddy Holly, Bob Dylan,
the Beatles, Billy Joel and more did sweat to put together their
tunes.  They lived with these in their head for some time, then
sweat to do get them into concert and recorded performances.
        Elvis in 1956 woke up the music industry and America to a 
dramatic change, a change that might have happened anyway, but not
so much without the personality/packaging to go with it.


#37 of 41 by kewy on Wed Oct 8 00:10:57 1997:

oh, so that's why we had all the elvis stuff on sale at work <smacks herself
on the forehead>


#38 of 41 by diznave on Tue Oct 21 21:08:41 1997:

I have never laughed so hard as I did when I was watching the
documentary/movie of Elvis' Vegas comeback shows '69. At one point, during
dress rehearsal, he walked out on stage while the band was jamming to a low
sort of jumping tune. He picked up the mike...started nodding his head along
with the music...you thought he was going to start singing the song, but
instead he says, "Ubbagobbageebagobbagabbagubbagobbageebagubbagoddamn!!" I
am not exxagerating in the least. Oh, right before he says that amazing line,
he says, "Now, some of y'all may not've been down south too much.....", *then*
he says the gobbledy gook line. I was rolling. No offense to anyone, but my
friend and I were just watching the video in order to laugh at Elvis, anyway.
And in addition, we were in the right frame of mind. 


#39 of 41 by lumen on Wed Oct 22 01:25:28 1997:

That does sound hilarious!  I hope nobody got any funny ideas about the
South-- hehehe. :)


#40 of 41 by diznave on Wed Oct 22 05:02:28 1997:

Too late, Jon! <just kidding...heh heh...>


#41 of 41 by lumen on Thu Oct 23 05:00:19 1997:

Hee hee hee!


There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: