Grex Music2 Conference

Item 46: The electronic music item.

Entered by lumen on Fri May 30 01:23:14 1997:

Electronic instruments-- synthesizers and MIDI-- have been a powerful
influence in the past thirty years.  From Walter Carlos to Depeche Mode, it's
been a staple of recent popular music.  Pioneers in this medium include David
Bowie, Stevie Wonder, Vince Clarke, Walter Carlos, and Herbie ncock.  It is
a much loved, and also much hated, medium.
87 responses total.

#1 of 87 by lumen on Fri May 30 04:00:19 1997:

It would seem Europe has more of an affinity for electronic instruments than
the US does.  Synthesizer music during the 80's came about during the second
British Invasion in music, and the current technodance craze that is sweeping
Europe is keeping it alive to a degree.  American musicians are avoiding this
craze like the plague; it is almost reminiscent of their disdain for disco
and the unemployment the machinated music brought about (A&E's History of Rock
N' Roll, video).  Yet MIDI comprises a huge amount of music manufactured
today.  Does America have a love/hate relationship with this medium?

MIDI especially has some shortcomings.  Many of the sounds can sound phony,
especially when technicians try to make them sound like real instruments. 
I've never heard a satisfying violin or trumpet sound on a module.  But it
is in this regard that I think electronic music as a whole has potential. 
It's not supposed to sound like a real orchestra; it's at its best when
musicians use unusual sounds and intricate riffs.  The advantage synth has
as a whole is that musicians can acheive super-tight percussive riffs with
less effort (and fewer drum lessons, I guess).  It shines when it beeps,
whirrs, and beats.

Musicians are learning.  When a solo instrument is called for, they generally
use the original electric or acoustic version.  MIDI through acoustic piano
and electric guitar is now possible.  A musician will make a sample if a
pre-recorded digital sound sounds too thin, or will use an analog synth
(although these are bulky and are becoming rare).  Hopefully, electronic
instruments will earn their respect along with the electric guitar.


#2 of 87 by scott on Fri May 30 23:56:47 1997:

Well, MIDI is just a standard for communcating between electronic instruments,
not a sound source.

The really interesting thing about the current trend is the use of "retro"
electronic instruments, stuff from the 80's and even the 70's.  Analog drum
machines, etc.


#3 of 87 by orinoco on Sun Jun 1 18:52:03 1997:

The problem with electronic music, as I see it, is the fact that often it
attempts to imitate 'real' instruments rather than making its own sounds. 
Of course a synthesizer can't sound *just like* a trumpet--but it could sound
*just as good as* a trumpet.


#4 of 87 by senna on Fri Jun 6 05:56:46 1997:

Wonderwall, by Oasis, uses synthesized string tracks.  They sound pretty
genuine to me.  

America does indeed have certain problems with synthesized music.  Rage
Against the Machine semi-prominently states in its liner notes that no
synthezation or looping was used in production.  Many bands try to limit
themselves to natural insturments as much as possible.


#5 of 87 by krj on Fri Jun 6 06:47:07 1997:

I became a Walter Carlos fan back when the LPs were shiny and new:
my LP of SWITCHED-ON BACH is so old that it has a *grey* Columbia
label in the center.  Carlos has been best known for the Bach 
arrangements, and those are all that Columbia/Sony have kept in 
print.  Besides the original SWITCHED-ON BACH disc, there is also 
a collection of the Brandenburg Concertos, half of which is drawn 
from early recordings, and half of which was recorded specially
for this collection.

But many of my favorite Carlos performances were of works by other
composers, and since I heard them as a child they remain my mental 
ideal of those pieces.  Snippets from Monteverdi's opera ORFEO;
some Scarlatti sonatas; Purcell's "Music For The Funeral of Queen Mary;"
Rossini's overture to THE THIEVING MAGPIE; movements 2 & 4 from Beethoven's
9th.  These are all from the LPs THE WELL TEMPERED SYNTHESIZER and
WALTER CARLOS' CLOCKWORK ORANGE (*not* the official soundtrack release). 
Carlos was, for better or worse, most of my introduction to 
classical music.

There was an excellent interview in Playboy about 15-20 years ago in 
which Carlos talked about life as a transsexual.  When the first burst
of fame hit, Carlos was crossdressing, and the Columbia publicity 
department invested a lot of energy in keeping their star out of 
public view.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get into 
Carlos' work from the Wendy, post-op years.  I suspect that the 
resolution of the sexual tension had an impact on the art, somehow.

But I still love the old stuff; I was listening to the CLOCKWORK ORANGE
album just tonight. 

Not too long ago I heard some new synthesized Bach material: probably
on the CBC radio.  This was being performed by a woman, under the 
general title of "Bach for the 21st Century."  I've lost the scrap 
of paper which had the artist's name; time to go web searching, I guess.

Maybe I need some Tomita CDs.



#6 of 87 by raven on Fri Jun 6 16:29:29 1997:

I really like the Wendy Carlos album "Beauty in the Beast," this is a
mid 80s effort featuring (now her) original compositions using the
scales of various cultures from around te world. My favorite piece on the
album is one where she simulates a gamelan orchestra, it's very rich both
timbre and percussion wise.  I found this album on tape for 2.00 at
Discount records a couple of years ago, probably the best 2.00 purchuse I
have ever made, I like it much better than "Switched on Bach," which I
have on vinyl.


#7 of 87 by krj on Fri Jun 6 20:59:21 1997:

Found it!  Kathy Geisler has a series of electronic classical 
recordings on her Well-Tempered Productions label:
 
  http://usashopping.com/paol/wtpThumb1.html
 
"21st Century Bach": selections from cantatas
"Christmas Tapestry":  masses of Josquin and Ockeghem
"Six Concertos":   for Oboe and virtual orchestra; Vivaldi, Telemann, Handel
"Virtual Vivaldi":  The Four Seasons, of course
"21st Century Messiah":  the seasonal classic
"21st Century Mandolin":  not by Geisler, but I just have to hear an album 
     with a 20 minute track called "Silicon Valley Breakdown."
 
Mmm, can I find any of this stuff immediately, or do I have to go 
direct order from the label?


#8 of 87 by lumen on Fri Jun 6 20:59:40 1997:

Re #3:  Well, I thought the point of synth was to make sounds _different_ from
acoustic/electric ones.  To do so otherwise may save money and time, but it's
also a lack of skill, originality, and craftsmanship.  What a lax use of
synth.  The medium has such potential for creativity that I cry when I hear
it used so poorly.

I mentioned two American synth pioneers.  Oddly enough, they are
African-American: Stevie Wonder, and Herbie Hancock.  Wonder secured the
medium a place in pop music, and Hancock used synth in funk and fusion.  I'm
not sure how active these musicians are now in the popular music scene. 
Perhaps their time in the limelight has passed (although Hancock continues
to be a very well-respected and well-known jazz artist), but they left an
impact on African-American pop music.  The various genres of rap, R&B, and
soul are very dependent on synth.  Bono of U2 once marveled at the wealth of
technology hip-hop has at its fingertips (at about the time Zooropa was
released).  Now that I think about it, I think it's white America that has
the most problem with synth.

Walter Carlos is American, of course, and the other two synth pioneers are
British.  But Carlos, Bowie, and Clarke are involved in or about the
alternative lifestyles culture, and I wonder if this isn't part of the reason
for the American backlash.  I wasn't aware Wendy _was_ Walter Carlos.  David
Bowie is gay, and Vince Clarke has been involved in bands with gay appeal
(some bands having gay members, although he is reported to be straight).  The
early 80's seem to be the decade of the gay video, if not a gender-bending
era in general.  Now, I'm sure straight guys use some synth, too, but the gays
seem to use it the most, and they use it the best!

The argument could be made that this segment of music is more Brit/European
than it is gay, but it just appears to be so such of the gay culture to me.
So I suggest that perhaps some American bands avoid synth to avoid sounding
gay.  *shrug*  I'm sure it will be subject to debate.


#9 of 87 by lumen on Fri Jun 6 21:27:55 1997:

Re #3: Well, I thought the point was to make sounds _different_ from
acoustic/electric ones (I challenge the notion that amplified and distorted
sounds are "natural").  Ideally, musicians will learn to use traditional
instruments when they are called for, and synth to create new sounds.  To do
so otherwise may save time and money, but it's just a lax use.  The medium
has such potential for creativity (and musicians have demonstrated it does)
that I cry when I hear it used poorly.

Now that I think about it, not all of America is completely opposed to synth.
The various genres of R&B and rap are fairly dependent on it.  Bono of U2
marveled once that hip-hop has and uses a wealth of technology at its
fingertips.  (He said this at about the time Zooropa was released.)  I
mentioned two African-American synth pioneers, Stevie Wonder and Herbie
Hancock.  I'm not sure what Wonder is doing now.  Hancock is more involved
with contemporary jazz (as he is a well-known and respected jazz musician);
fusion seems to have gone out of vogue several years ago.

The other synth pioneers I mentioned are involved in or about the alternative
lifestyles culture (and I wasn't aware Wendy _was_ Walter Carlos).  Synth
seems to be a part of the gay culture, especially.  The culture and
gender-bending in general seemed ever-present in the videos of the early
80's.  I wonder if the backlash against synth isn't also a backlash against
the audiences the music was directed toward.  Perhaps some American bands
avoid synth to avoid sounding gay (and red-blooded male musicians seem to be
guitar trashers).  I'm sure this will all be subject to debate.


#10 of 87 by lumen on Fri Jun 6 21:29:57 1997:

Whoops!  I wasn't sure if my previous response got in.


#11 of 87 by katt on Mon Jun 9 15:10:36 1997:

Huh, I hadn't really thought about that take on it before. . .
my favorite kind of el;ectronic music is the kind which comes out of music
concrete, like ussachevsky. There's alot of bad BAD stuff that's been made
in that style, but what's good in it is beautiful. . .
I'm also way into Negativeland. Anyone here into them? I just started
listening to them, I've got "Escape from Noise". . .it's amazing, it's really
funny and creepy. . . 


#12 of 87 by mcnally on Mon Jun 9 23:20:37 1997:

  The Negativland stuff I've heard has been a pretty mixed bag but
  "Escape From Noise" is pretty decent if it's the album I'm thinking of.

  I know I've been pushing the Magnetic Fields in other items but another
  thing I like about them is that they use electronic devices to make 
  electronic-sounding sounds, giving their pretty different-sounding
  instrumentation.  They're chosen for what they are, not as substitutes
  for traditional "analog" sounds..


#13 of 87 by raven on Sun Jun 15 19:45:04 1997:

Yes, Negativland!!!!  A big 10-8 place is really fantastic, it's more
music cocrete than their early stuff, which is sampled.  There must be
24 tracks of analog tape on some the pieces, dense amazing stuff.  Also
hard to find these days.  I would be willing to trade a dub of this tape
for anything by Xenakis, or a decent tape of Bartok string quartets, or
early Sonic Youth.  Contact me via e-mail if yer interested..


#14 of 87 by lumen on Thu Jun 19 19:29:56 1997:

I would also be interested-- anything to hear some quality stuff. E
#~HGH~~?~?~?~?~?~.
JZfD6?%H|?~?~?~?~?~?


#15 of 87 by lumen on Sat Jun 28 05:56:07 1997:

#2 MIDI is not necessarily a standard for all electronic instruments; just
digital ones.  One runs into problems when you have an analog/digital setup.
The analog tracks must be recorded live, or the analog sounds must be
digitally sampled.  I've heard varying opinions on which is best-- analog or
digital.  Digital can be MIDI manipulated-- you can use a computer to go back
to hone and polish the music.  Digital synth also doesn't have that humming
sound, and you don't have to worry about VU meters.  On the other hand, analog
sounds have a quality to them that is somehow lacking in digital ones; and
I suspect it is because digital processes clean up certain noises more. 
Acoustically, we sometimes do want there to be variation, or "hair" on the
wavelength.

So, Re: #12, sometimes it's best to use analog sounds where they are best
suited, and digital ones where they fit best.  The question is, to sample or
not to sample?  Real analog synths are becoming rare fast, although it may
still be possible to put together your own analog with homemade connections
that is cheaper and better-sounding than many digitals (read analog "system",
not one unit itself).

re #13:  I had forgotten briefly that analog tape used to be the standard for
electronic music.  The forefathers of techno had to deal with this literal
cut-n-splice method of editing.  For that matter, I'm sure they were dealing
with reel-to-reel tape.  You could create reverb by manually manipulating the
speed of the tape while it was recording (transcribing).  One example is
"flanging," which involves gradually slowing the tape reel a bit and then
allowing it to return to normal speed.  It kinda makes the music sound like
it's coming through a tunnel, or if done a few times in short succession (say,
three times) underwater.  They have electronic devices to do that, and create
room acoustics, now.  They're called reverb machines (logically) and I had
the interesting experience to work with one some time ago in school.


#16 of 87 by scott on Sat Jun 28 12:54:37 1997:

 Um...

I think you are a bit confused about certain things.  "Analog" vs. 
"digital" refers to the sound-generating part of the instrument.  Both 
analog and digital synthesizers can be controlled via MIDI, and have 
been since the early eighties.  The really old analog synthesizers can 
be retrofitted or interfaced with MIDI.

"Flanging" produces a swooshing sound, whereas "reverb" is the sound of 
a large room.  The method described above for flanging has nothing to do 
with reverberation, the old way of doing reverb was to set up a 
microphone and speaker in an echo chamber or to send the sound through a 
set of springs or metal plates.


#17 of 87 by orinoco on Sun Jun 29 00:59:56 1997:

There are a couple different distinctions that #15 is lumping together.
There's MIDI-controlled versus performed live.
There's Analog sound production versus Digital sound production.
And there's Analog or Digital recording.


#18 of 87 by mziemba on Wed Jul 23 15:47:52 1997:

Hehehehe...I love Negativland.  I'd be hard-pressed to put them in the
electronic music item, though.  Experimental music, though.  _Escape From
Noise_ is a masterpiece.  Ditto _Helter Stupid_.  After that, it gets
unimpressive.  _A Big 10-8 Place_ was the first time they started to sound
somehwat coherent.  _Points_ was pretty disjointed.  Was someone interested
in a recording of _A Big 10-8 Place_?  I've got it.  Comeplete with grass
clippings from Contra Costa county...


#19 of 87 by mziemba on Wed Jul 23 16:21:03 1997:

"Electronic music" -- good choice on the title.  I think I would've had to
bring a bag if it got mis-appropriated as "new age".  That out of the way,
here are a few of the electronic musicians worth checking out...
 
Jean-Michel Jarre:  French synthesis pioneer from the 70s.  Still going. 
Son of Maurice Jarre, noted film music composer.  

Recordings to check into:  _Oxygene_ (1976) still stands the test of time;
_Zoolook_ (1984) features a distinct change in style -- shorter songs,
rock leanings -- features the notable talents of Adrian Belew and Laurie
Anderson, as well; _Rendez-vous_ (1986) features "Last Rendez-vous",
subtitled "Ron's Piece" (late astronaut Ron McNair was supposed to play a
sax solo from this song on the ill-fated shuttle flight); _En Attendant
Cousteau_ (1990) a pun on the celebrated French play _Waiting for Godot_
by Samuel "nothing to be done" Beckett; _Chronologie_ (1993) musical
musings about time.  

Jarre is known for his spectacular performances:  traffic backed up on the
highway for miles near Houston in the 80s for a show where he projected
lasers against downtown buildings, landed in a spacecraft, played laser
harp;  most recently performed huge show on the midieval French island Mt.
St.  Michel.  

Currently holding status as the "grandfather" of ambient music.  The most
unique feature of Jarre's work is how richly-textural his electronic
sounds are, and how thoughtfully composed his pieces are. 



#20 of 87 by mziemba on Wed Jul 23 16:51:12 1997:

Tangerine Dream:  German electronic rock outfit from the late 60s. These
guys have had a few personnel changes over the years, and have put out a
ton of albums.  Wise to know, if you want to check them out.  With this in
mind, you can break them into about three different periods:  experimental
electronic music in the late 60s-mid 70s (due mainly to Edgar Froese),
more structured sound from the mid-70s to the mid-80s (due mainly to
Johannes Scmoelling), and the more Impressionist sound from the late
80s-early 90s (due mainly to Christopher Franke). 

Recommended picks:  _Cyclone_ (1978) a bit of a transitional
experimental/structured album, _Tangram_ (1980) probably one of their
most popular albums, _Le Parc_ (1985) leans more towards rock with short
songs and includes the theme from "Streethawk" TV adventure show, _Grand
Canyon_ (1988 or 89) serves as the soundtrack to the Mirimar video of the 
same name.  I'm more partial to the middle period, myself.

Sometimes, it's a little hard to take these guys too seriously.  They've
probably scored a zillion cheesy soundtracks and they allowed an album
based on the works of William Blake to feature pronounciation of the
famous Thames River as the /thaymes/, instead of the proper /temms/. 

But amidst the wash of albums, there are a few specks of gold.




#21 of 87 by mziemba on Wed Jul 23 16:52:29 1997:

Oops, make that "Schmoelling".  Sorry, Johan...


#22 of 87 by mziemba on Wed Jul 23 17:10:29 1997:

Mike Oldfield:  launched Virgin Records into major status with _Tubular
Bells_ (1973).  A tiny excerpt serves as the unlikely theme for the movie
_The Exorcist_ (which doesn't appear until the credits, in case you're
interested in risking it).  Oldfield is mainly a guitar player, but a good
arranger and synthesizer programmer.  His best material has really tread
in progressive rock. 
 
Picks:  _Platinum_ (1979), _QE2_ (1980), _Five Miles Out_ (1982), _Crises_
(1983) featuring Jon Anderson on vocals on one song, _Discovery_ (1984),
soundtrack to _The Killing Fields_ (1984).  These are pretty much
progressive rock picks.



#23 of 87 by krj on Wed Jul 23 19:12:28 1997:

No OMMADAWN in your recommended list?  Ah well.  I need to get a fresh 
CD of that one for myself: it was an adolescent favorite, and my LP 
is pretty grunchy.
 
Then there was his 2-LP set, the name of which is now escaping me, 
which has one side of Maddy Prior singing Oldfield's arrangement of 
the poem "Hiawatha."  With Maddy's very very English accent... 
we used to fall over laughing at that one.
Hmmm, I'll bet Twila has never heard that one, either.


#24 of 87 by bruin on Wed Jul 23 23:08:28 1997:

Re #23 What does OMMADAWN mean, Ken?


#25 of 87 by krj on Wed Jul 23 23:24:05 1997:

Beats me.  The chorus on side 1 of the LP goes "Ommadawn Eggroll,"
or something like that.


#26 of 87 by mziemba on Thu Jul 24 04:30:10 1997:

Ken-  I'll have to go back and listen to the older ones, again.  I did enjoy
_Ommadawn_ and _Hergest Ridge_, but I favor the early 80s stuff.  I have a
solo album of Maggie's, by the way, too.


#27 of 87 by mziemba on Wed Jul 30 14:45:14 1997:

Who's Maddy Prior, by the way?  I'm only familiar with Maggie Reilly's vocal
work with Mike Oldfield.


#28 of 87 by anderyn on Wed Jul 30 15:54:54 1997:

Maddy Prior is the lead singer for a folk-rock band 
called Steeleye Span. Lovely soaring voice. Just beautiful.


#29 of 87 by krj on Wed Jul 30 20:08:41 1997:

Ah, I was wondering if Mark had confused Maddy Prior and Maggie Reilly
after my response #23...  for more on Maddy Prior, see music cf. items 
40 and 48.
 
Me, I always get Maggie Reilly mixed up with Maggie Boyle; Maggie B. did 
some stuff with John Renbourn (SHIP OF FOOLS) and then moved on to a duo 
gig with guitarist Steve Tilston; but as we have moved to talking about 
acoustic guitarists, we are drifting far away from the topic of 
electronic music.


#30 of 87 by mziemba on Fri Aug 1 16:36:29 1997:

True, but an enjoyable drift, nonetheless...


#31 of 87 by lumen on Wed Aug 6 07:30:58 1997:

I've been away much too long!  I have truly been enlightened.  Mark-- nice
work, as usual.  but good gravy, doesn't your well of music resources (as far
as recordings) ever run out?

Thanks DV for your corrections..it makes perfect sense.  I'd been confused
because the machine I used was called a digital reverb machine.  It duplicated
several different reverbs (including the use of tubes and metal strings) and
flanging techniques.  I'm getting careless-- but I haven't spent as much time
in a studio as some of my musical colleagues.

(In case you didn't know, I have a bit of an inferiority complex in regards
to music-- they didn't regard me as 'talented' as the others in school.)


#32 of 87 by lumen on Wed Aug 6 07:48:41 1997:

Not DV-- I mean, Scott.  (Damn it, my scroll doesn't reach that far.. so no,
Mark, it wasn't an enjoyable drift for me!)

One thing I must know for certain: Is Thomas Dolby in any way connected with
Dolby Laboratories, Inc.?  That would be far-out-- a British 80's pop star
had a hand in noise reduction technologies?

Speaking of Thomas Dolby, I know this is old news, but the following article
appeared in the April 21 edition of Newsweek:

What was a British pop star from the '80s doing at Sun Microsystems's recent
JavaOne conference?  Thomas Dolby, the musician in question, was there to
debut Beatnik, an audio-software product for the Web.  The Beatnik plug-iin
works by loading a small "software synthesizer" onto your hard drive, which
gets instructions for reproducing sounds whever you encounter a
Beatnik-compatible file on a Web page.  Download the plug-in at
www.headspace.com.


I wonder how it works.  Anyone heard about this technology yet?


#33 of 87 by scott on Wed Aug 6 13:36:51 1997:

Thomas Dolby was sued by Dolby labs at one point, but came out OK (no heavily
overlapping product).  He got the nickname "Dolby" by being into electronics,
and later made it his stage name.


#34 of 87 by mziemba on Wed Aug 6 16:41:01 1997:

I might add that Dolby's skills are far beyond "Blinded Me With Science". 
He moved to America in the late 80s, got a backing band, and put out two
brilliant albums:  _Aliens Ate My Buick_ and _Astronauts and Heretics_. 
His bassist, Terry Jackson, was also the bassist for Reba McIntyre's
country band.  Dolby's strengths are as a synthesizer wizard, of course,
but he's also a pretty good arranger and composer, as well.  Either of the
two aforementioned albums clearly demonstrate that... 



#35 of 87 by mziemba on Wed Aug 6 16:42:59 1997:

Jon-  as long as I'm still breathing, I'll be curious...


#36 of 87 by mcnally on Wed Aug 6 17:17:50 1997:

  re #34:  And then there's the forgotten Dolby album, "The Flat Earth".
  Much better than "Aliens Ate My Buick", I think, but then I never much
  cared for that one (except for the Robin Leach intro to "The Keys To
  Her Ferrari"  He also did a soundtrack to a computer animated film
  called "The Gate to the Mind's Eye", which I picked up in a cut-out
  bin the other day and haven't had time to evaluate.


#37 of 87 by mziemba on Fri Aug 8 07:16:54 1997:

Dunno.  I've heard _The Flat Earth_, and it didn't grab me like his stuff with
a backing band did.  But, then again, I heard it a long time ago, too.  I need
to revisit those old Dolby albums, some time.


#38 of 87 by mziemba on Sat Aug 9 16:20:54 1997:

Hmmm...live performances of electronic music I've heard:  Tangerine Dream,
Mike Oldfield...that's it, so far...  I really want to see Jean-Michel Jarre
one day...  Perhaps a trip to France?


#39 of 87 by bmoran on Sun Aug 10 23:31:41 1997:

Save your bucks. He comes to the states every few decades. I heard about a
show he did in San Antonio. Played music while colored lights did up
various parts of the city. Sorta like cristo with a soundtrack?


#40 of 87 by mcnally on Mon Aug 11 05:52:13 1997:

  Unless he struck Texas twice I think that concert was in Houston.


#41 of 87 by mziemba on Mon Aug 11 15:08:30 1997:

I know he did one concert in Houston, back around '84 or '85...  Haven't heard
of any here, since.


#42 of 87 by lumen on Tue Aug 12 07:38:44 1997:

re #36: Jan Hammer did the soundtrack to the sequel to "The Gate to the Mind's
Eye," titled "Beyond the Mind's Eye."  It's nice work.  I didn't know Dolby
had done the first, so I'll have to find it somehow.


#43 of 87 by mziemba on Thu Aug 14 03:56:07 1997:

I think Dolby did the newest one, not the first one.  Although I am not
exactly sure how many "Mind's Eye" videos there are, other than two (possibly
three?)...


#44 of 87 by lumen on Thu Aug 14 07:50:34 1997:

"Beyond the Mind's Eye" is indeed the second in the "Mind's Eye" series.  I
have it, so I know Jan Hammer did the music for it :P
Also, I am fairly positive "The Gate to the Mind's Eye" was the first video.
As for a third sequel, I am unsure if it exists.


#45 of 87 by mcnally on Thu Aug 14 17:23:55 1997:

  Thomas Dolby did the soundtrack for "The Gate to the Mind's Eye", (c) 1994.


#46 of 87 by lumen on Fri Aug 15 03:41:20 1997:

Ok, the one Dolby did is the latest-- "Beyond" was done 1992.  "The Mind's
Eye" was the first.  I finally checked the credits and did a little deducing.
 :P


#47 of 87 by mziemba on Fri Aug 15 09:19:19 1997:

Good job, Sherlock!


#48 of 87 by lumen on Sat Aug 16 08:38:11 1997:

thanks :P


#49 of 87 by mziemba on Sun Oct 26 10:11:04 1997:

They were playing an ambient album of Pink Floyd tunes on WDET the other
night.  I only heard the first part, but it sounded pretty interesting. 
Apparently the album's a little hard to locate, too.
 
That reminds me of another similar album of Kraftwerk tunes, something like
_Trans-Slovakian Express_...Eastern European electronic bands covering
Kraftwerk material...


#50 of 87 by goose2 on Tue Oct 28 19:46:23 1997:

I have some comments about other earler responses, but first:

Dolby Labs is Ray Dolby, no relation to Thomas Dolby (whose 'real' name
escapes me right now)


#51 of 87 by mcnally on Tue Oct 28 21:03:01 1997:

  Thomas Morgan Dolby Robertson, I think..


#52 of 87 by agent86 on Mon Nov 17 15:52:15 1997:

It was sort of interesting to see someone mention that analog songs have a
certaion sound to them lacking in digital. I read once that this was a
psychological thing -- that the digital version is truer to original, and that
what you like about the analog is jus the harmonics from the tape/vynil (sp?)
hiss... people associate the "warm fuzzy" sound with "warm, fuzzy" memories.
About WOnderwall: I read in some mag (probably Ent. Weekly) that the strings
weren't synth -- just sampled.
So far, I have seen mostly discussion of rehashed, synth, classical stuff
here. What do ya'll think of Prodigy etc.. that have come up with a new sound
with their synths?


#53 of 87 by teflon on Tue Nov 18 02:02:05 1997:

I've been listening to an 'Electronic Music' CD recently that was put out by
a group called Orb.  (The CD is called 'Orblivion')  The music is basically
on crack, and theirfor truly cool sh-t.  Just thought I might mention it in
case someone else has heard of it.


#54 of 87 by mcnally on Tue Nov 18 04:33:43 1997:

  Haven't heard "Orblivion" but I'm generally not big on the Orb.
  They're capable of producing stuff I really like but they seem
  to prefer making stuff that bores me senseless.  Every album or
  two they produce a track I can get into but the rest of the time
  it's a one-way ticket to slumberland..  I'll have to see if I can
  borrow "Orblivion" from one of my ambient/techno-junkie friends to
  see if they've changed their tune while I wasn't paying attention..


#55 of 87 by lumen on Tue Nov 18 06:58:50 1997:

Interesting reads-- my moan, as usual, is that I wish I had the disposable
income to buy some of this music.  I've had a penchant to check out Radiohead,
and whoever does "Sonic Empire"-- I've forgotten the name of the group
already, but the vid gets frequent air time on AMP, MTV's late night techno
show.


#56 of 87 by teflon on Fri Nov 21 01:51:35 1997:

Yeah, finding cash to spend on CDs is indeed tough.  I tend to lay dormate
for a while, then go on a buying spree. (I'm in the middle of one now!  Yee
HAW!)


#57 of 87 by mziemba on Fri Nov 21 07:17:27 1997:

I've heard a few interesting things from the Orb.


#58 of 87 by diznave on Fri Nov 21 07:58:23 1997:

Mark, I don't suppose you'd consider throwing a sample of some Orb stuff on
that tape, eh?  :)



#59 of 87 by mziemba on Fri Dec 5 09:45:14 1997:

WCBN was playing Jean-Michel Jarre on the radio the other day while I was in
the car.  Ah....the joys of college radio!


#60 of 87 by krj on Fri Jan 29 06:12:16 1999:

Moving a discussion to here from the sf conference:  Wendy Carlos 
has gotten the rights back to the material which appeared on 
Columbia Records.  Carlos has made a deal with the East Side Digital
label to put out reissues of the old stuff, and some new recordings.
The first two reissues are the Carlos edition of the music for 
A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, and the early 2-LP quasi-ambient set SONIC SEASONINGS.
Both of these albums were childhood favorites, and they have been 
out of print for about 25 years.
 
Lumen expressed hope that we'd be seeing a reissue of THE WELL TEMPERED
SYNTHESIZER, which was Carlos' followup to the commercial smash
SWITCHED-ON BACH and which was also a childhood favorite of mine.
My understanding is that the WELL TEMPERED album, the Bach albums 
and probably a few other items are being rolled into a large 
collection called THE BAROQUE BOX, set for release later in 1999.
 
Web info on these reissues, and on Carlos' most recent recording, 
can be had at:   http://www.noside.com/esd


#61 of 87 by lumen on Fri Jan 29 07:25:44 1999:

That seems to be the indication, Ken..the websites I looked at, 
including Wendy Carlos's personal webpage, merely showed some of the 
albums set for re-release in 1999, however.  The Well-Tempered 
Synthesizer was among them.  I am hoping that the original photo artwork 
for that LP will be included-- I loved that cover.


#62 of 87 by md on Fri Jan 29 14:00:25 1999:

I see Sonic Seasonings is on the list of rereleases.  The "Summer"
movement is Carlos' masterpiece, imho.  It's the ideal of any work
of  representational music, where the composer chooses some real
thing, examines the emotional and psychological states produced by 
that thing, and then creates music which will produce the same states
in a receptive listener.  The music might not "sound" like the thing it
purports to be about: Carlos'  "Summer" doesn't sound especially
"summery," except for some insect noises and a frog or two.  But the
effect is staggering.  (I think there's an item somewhere here about
music that makes you say "Oh my God."  I hope I mentioned "Summer.")
The other three seasons aren't all that great, although "Winter" has
a wonderfully creepy chorus of howling wolves.  In particular, the
"wolf entrance," I guess you'd call it, gives you goose-bumps.


#63 of 87 by lumen on Fri Jan 29 19:14:54 1999:

All the more reason why I should check this all out.


#64 of 87 by krj on Fri Jan 29 20:51:44 1999:

I've seen SONIC SEASONINGS and CLOCKWORK ORANGE in stores.  I think 
all the other reissues are pending.  I meant to mention that a few 
responses back.


#65 of 87 by lumen on Mon Feb 1 03:10:12 1999:

*nod*


#66 of 87 by lumen on Mon Mar 8 23:52:24 1999:

Some other great electronic artists I forgot to mention--

Orbital.  They made a big appearance at a Lollapalloza (sp?) concert 
some years back.  They were quite optimistic then about being there-- 
they said it had been a while since electronic music had been in the 
mainstream.  Indeed.  Some of their music has been in major motion 
pictures, most notably _The Saint._

I understand Kraftwerk has toured in recent years.  Any clue as to what 
I should start listening to in their discography?  All I have is _The 
Mix_, which are basically dance mixes of their greatest hits.


#67 of 87 by mcnally on Tue Mar 9 05:46:23 1999:

  I was under the impression that Orbital was primarily a "him", not a "them"


#68 of 87 by cyklone on Tue Mar 9 13:14:31 1999:

Start with "Autobahn" if you're just getting into Kraftwerk.


#69 of 87 by lumen on Wed Mar 10 19:02:43 1999:

Okay-- that sounds good since I really love "Autobahn" for its melody 
and supporting harmony-- so the rest of the album is like that?

I liked the tune "Tranceworks Express," but is that considered later 
material?

What I'm trying to say is I could just dive in..


#70 of 87 by bmoran on Thu Jan 20 19:28:51 2000:

Try looking for "Trans-Europe Express" (C)1977, tho I don't think it's one
of their strongest. I realy like the single "Tour De France", which has a
lighter, more 'pop' sound. 


#71 of 87 by scott on Sat Jun 23 15:09:20 2001:

Sindi Keesan just gave me a handful of "classical" electronic music albums
(I have to donate $1 each to Grex in exchange).  These include some Cage,
Stockhausen, and Subotnick.  I'm gradually dumping them to CD (in the easiest
way possible; track 1 = side 1 and track 2 = side 2), in case anyone is
interested.  I'll try to post a list at some point.


#72 of 87 by tpryan on Sun Jun 24 14:15:13 2001:

        I would like to get "Plastic Cow goes Moog" on a CD.


#73 of 87 by scott on Sun Jul 1 16:11:30 2001:

(pokes around) Nope, don't have that.

Right now I'm burning a CD of a couple of the Subnotnick records (at only 30
minutes each I can fit two onto a CD).  So far I've done 6 of the 16.  The
Subotnick stuff is lots of bleeps & bloops & reverb, but still neat to listen
to (and pretty rockin' in a couple of spots).  


#74 of 87 by scott on Sun Jul 1 20:02:33 2001:

After a little web searching I've found Subotnick's home page!
http://www.mortonsubotnick.com
He still around, still doing stuff.  Some of the LPs I got are available on
CD or DVD from his site.  The neat thing is that he's doing some things on
DVD so that the original quadrophonic sound supported!  Back in the heydey
of serious electronic music research quad was often used.  I remember a high
school tour of the Umich electronic music studio (way back in 1983) and they
recorded in quadrophonic sound.  

Subotnick is also doing music software for children at 
http://www.creatingmusic.com

I may end up ordering a copy of the "Silver Apples of the Moon / The Wild
Bull" CD; those are the two LPs I recorded/burned this morning.  Out of the
stack so far these are the most interesting.  


#75 of 87 by scott on Sun Jul 8 03:24:09 2001:

The latest two Subotnick records are quadrophonic.  How the heck did that work
with vinyl?


#76 of 87 by krj on Sun Jul 8 04:03:01 2001:

Well, this is the wrong item for this digression, but you did ask...
There were two incompatible systems for quadrophonic sound in LPs.
I think the Columbia system was called "SQ" and it was described as 
a "matrix" system which played games with the phase of the signals.
The advantage of the matrix system is that it made no special demands
on the turntable; the quad decoding was all done in the receiver or 
by an outboard decoder box.  However, there was reported to be 
some bleeding among the channels.
 
RCA's system was called CD-4.  It treated all 4 channels as discrete 
signals; for the rear channels, there was a "difference" or "carrier"
signal which was boosted by 30,000 cycles and pressed into the
vinyl as ultrasonic information. 
The problem with this idea is that vinyl signals pressed
between 30K-50K are very, very delicate, and they are
destroyed pretty quickly under normal vinyl wear conditions.
On the positive side, the desire to preserve that 30K-50K signal
led to some substantial advances in phono stylus geometry to minimize
record wear.

I found a website which tells me I'm not entirely correct here:
visit:   http://hometown.aol.com/matrixquad/about.htm


#77 of 87 by scott on Sun Jul 8 04:40:53 2001:

A carrier wave of 30KHz on a turntable?  Were they on crack, or some similar
drug which predated crack?  ;)

Thanks, Ken.


#78 of 87 by mcnally on Mon Jul 9 22:30:50 2001:

  not cracks..  LPs have *grooves*


#79 of 87 by orinoco on Wed Jul 11 18:18:53 2001:

X : crack :: vinyl : DVD ?


#80 of 87 by arianna on Thu Jul 19 06:17:36 2001:

<suddenly suffers a flashback of the SAT and mock-punches dan> d=


#81 of 87 by orinoco on Fri Jul 20 01:41:22 2001:

<blames his employer>


#82 of 87 by scott on Fri Jul 20 02:15:20 2001:

Update:  Only 2 (out of the 16) left to transfer.  Out of the whole batch I'm
only recommending the Morton Subotnick, although there's a couple interesting
things in the other stuff.


#83 of 87 by scott on Sat Jul 21 23:17:15 2001:

Done!

Here are the gory details:
1. Karlheinz Stockhausen
        Kontakte for Electronic Sounds, Piano, and Percussion
        Refrain for 3 Instrumentalists
        (Candide CE 31022)

2. John Cage
        Concerto for Perpared Piano & Orchestra (in 3 Parts) (1951)
   Lukas Foss
        Baroque Variations (1967)
        1. On a Handel Larghetto
        2. On a Scarlatti Sonata
        3. On a Bach Prelude "Phorion"
        (Nonesuch H-71202)

3. Morton Subotnick
        4 Butterflies (1974)
        (Columbia M 32741)

4. Morton Subotnick
        A Sky of Cloudless Sulphur (1978)
        After the Butterfly (1979)
        (Nonesuch H-78001)

5. Morton Subotnick
        Silver Apples of the Moon (1967)
        (Nonesuch H-71174)

6. Morton Subotnick
        The Wild Bull (1968)
        (Nonesuch H-71208)

7. Morton Subotnick
        Touch (1969)
        (Columbia Masterworks MS 7316)

8. Morton Subotnick
        Sidewinder (1971)
        (Columbia Masterworks M 30683)

9. George Crumb
        Ancient Voices of Children (1971)
        1. I. El nino busca su voz
        2. Dances of the Ancient Earth
        3. II. Me he perdido muchas veces por el mar
        4. III. ?De Donde vienes, amor, mi nino?
        5. IV. Todas las tardes en Granada, todas las tardes se muere un nino
        6. Ghost Dance
        7. V. Se ha llenado de luces mi corazon de seda
        (Nonesuch H-71255)

10. George Crumb
        (1978)
        Lux Aeterna
        Dream Sequence (Images II)
        Four Nocturnes
        (Columbia/Odyessy Y 35201)

11. George Crumb
        (1974)
        Voice of the Whale (Vox Balaenae)
        Night of the Four Moons
        (Columbia M 32739)

12. Charles Dodge
        Earth's Magnetic Field
        (Nonesuch H-71250)

13. Andrew Rudin
        Tragoedia (a composition in four movements for electronic music
synthesizer)
        1. Kouros
        2. Hybris
        3. Peitho
        4. Ate
        (Nonesuch H-71198)

14. Charles Wuorinen
        Time's Encomium (for synthesized & processed synthesized sound)
        (Nonesuch H-71225)

15. Electronic Music (1965[?] compilation)
        Compilation of pieces recorded at the Columbia-Princeton Electronic
        Music Center.
        Andres Lewin-Richter
                Study N. 1
        Ilhan Mimaroglu
                Le Tombeau d'Edgar Poe
        Tzvi Avni
                Vocalise
        Walter Carlos
                Variations for Flute and Electronic Sound
                Dialogues for Piano and Two Loudspeakers
        (Turnabout TV 4004, monaural)

16. Electronic Music Vol. IV (1968 compilation)
        Winners of First International Electronic Music Competition, Dartmouth
        College
        Olly W. Wilson (Winner)
                Cetus
        William Hellermann (4th finalist)
                Ariel
        Eugeniusz Rudnik (3rd finalist)
                Dixi
        Pril Smiley (1st finalist)
                Eclipse
        Bohdan Mazurek (5th finalist)
                Bozzetti
        Jozef Malovec (2nd finalist)
                Orthogenesis
        (Turnabout TV 34301)

Probably the most interesting stuff (to me) is the Morton Subotnick, although
the last two albums are good compilations of different styles of electronic
music.

The most annoying albums are the George Crumb, since his style involved
regular orchestras and vocalists *attempting* to do strange new things.

I have no idea about the status of most of these recordings.  Some of the
Subotnick recordings are reissued and available from Subotnick's own website,
http://www.mortonsubotnick.com
Wendy (formerly Walter) Carlos also has an active website at
http://www.wendycarlos.com although the one compilation I have isn't
mentioned in her discography.


Anyway, I did all this basically to save the recordings for whoever is
curious.  If you really like something I didn't, it's yours if you ask nicely.


#84 of 87 by orinoco on Sun Jul 22 00:32:26 2001:

That's quite a list....  Sounds like you've got a good bit more aural
fortitude than I.

I think it's interesting that you hated the Crumb so much, since he's about
the only composer on that list who I'd expect to like.  (That is, I love what
Crumb I've heard, don't like Stockhausen or Subotnick at all, can't see the
point of even those Cage pieces that do have rhythms and tunes to them, and
haven't heard anything to make me think I'd like anyone else on the list.)
The novel effects he gets out of acoustic instruments is part of Crumb's
appeal to me; there's a richness to the sound that you don't hear in much
electronic music of that era. 

So really, I'd like to prod you to give the Cage a few more listens, but if
you don't want it I'd gladly take it off your hands.  I'd even ask nicely.


#85 of 87 by arianna on Sun Jul 22 04:36:41 2001:

<rotfl> AURAL FORTITUDE?!  I'm SO stealing that.


#86 of 87 by orinoco on Sun Jul 22 14:07:12 2001:

You think that was a joke?  Listening to Stockhausen is like having your
eardrums poked with twigs.


#87 of 87 by raven on Mon Jul 23 03:35:06 2001:

re #86 haha, very good as well, I would say listening to Stockhausen is
like listening to highly amplified fingernails being scratched on a chalk
board.


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