Grex Music2 Conference

Item 36: Musicians, Techniques and Styles

Entered by krj on Fri Mar 28 06:34:10 1997:

Over in the introductions item, Jovan requested that I set this item
up.  Over to you, Jovan!
40 responses total.

#1 of 40 by lumen on Sun Mar 30 08:48:14 1997:

Yes, do tell Jovan-- I'd love to say something, but I'm not really a
functional musician.  I guess I have my formal piano training to thank for
that.  Even with my  music studies, chord progressions and such didn't really
start clicking until I taught myself how to play the guitar.  (I'll bet that's
why it's such a popular instrument.)


#2 of 40 by jovan96 on Mon Mar 31 16:15:57 1997:

Thanks Ken... I have always been amazed with music especially the musicians
who play them. Although I have been exposed to Jazz musicians, I still
appreciate those musicians that come from heavy metal bands like metalicca,
pearl jam, collective soul, and the rest. I'm sorry if I misclassified their
type of music but I do admire their style and creativity.

Since I'm a bass player, I'll discuss  now my favorite bassists. First, I like
Nathan East who is a session player who also plays for the band "Fourplay"
with Lee Rite***(guitar), Harvey Mason(drums), and Bob James(piano and KB).
He is a very versatile bass player and likes the "thumpin sound". I know you
are familiar with Mark King (bass player of Level 42) who won 1994 Bass Player
of the year. I'm just amazed how he plays complex strokes and sing at the same
time during concerts.

I think I'm gonna stop here. If you want to discuss your favorite musicians,
please write them here. I'll be glad to share my thoughts on them too. Bye
for now. Hope you write.


#3 of 40 by lumen on Tue Jun 24 06:32:11 1997:

I will be going back to music studies sometime soon and hopefully I will write
more as I become more inspired.

You'd be suprised that so many rockers love the genres of their instrument,
and not so much the capability of their specialist genre.  I knew a guy who
pklayed a mean rhythm guitar and yet said he'd taught himself flamenco style.
I hope to learn that sometime soon; my classical guitar skills are very basic,
at best.  I'm still at an intermediate stage of folk, which I'm sure millions
of players could claim-- never saved up enough for an electric.  I also enjoy
the bluesy rhythm guitar that used to be popular in the early eighties (it's
still used today from time to time-- the Cardigan's "Lovefools" is one example
I can think of).

I love synth and I will just briefly mention some of my fave musicians here
since I blab about them everywhere else.  Alan Wilder of DM, Vince Clarke of
Erasure, Walter/Wendy Carlos, and Pete Byrne and Rob Fisher of Naked Eyes are
some.  I also thought The Human League's last effort (can't remember their
names?) was very good-- it was "When Can I See You Again?"  I also enjoy
Martin Gore of DM, but I have more faith in him as a composer than as a synth
performer.  Boy, do I miss Alan-- I should have explained he just recently
left Depeche Mode.

You may have guessed that I'm a keyboardist, with all my references to synth.
I'm not really a percussionist (and I'm sure many would pooh-pooh drum
machines), so I'll mention some of my favorite pianists.  Pianists are tougher
to define because so many are classically trained and are merely performance
artists.  Not as many are composers.  Billy Joel is one pianist I admire--
he's been able to give that instrument a working-class, average joe image.
Not that he's average-- he's a fine musician-- but he's not as stuffy.  "This
Is My Life" is one song, I think, that really showcases some of his abilities
on the 88 keys.

Jackson Berkey is another pianist I admire, but he doesn't play his own music.
He's the keyboardist of Mannheim Steamroller, so he either plays Chip Davis's
compositions, or established works.  But oh..how the man can play Debussy and
Rachmaninoff.  I admire that-- Debussy is an Impressionist, his pieces being
tonal paintings.  I can play but little of his work because they are so thick
which monstrous, rich chords.  Most pieces are slow, but the chords are so
big that they remain unwieldly for me.  I haven't played Rachimaninoff yet--
he's a late Romantic composer-- but some of his pieces are equally technically
challenging.

David Lanz gives the piano such a free, easy-going feel.  "Christophori's
Dream" is a tribute to Bartolomeo Chistophori, the inventor of the modern
piano.  I've played it.  It's pretty typical of the heavenly sound Lanz thinks
the piano has.

I should also mention Ray Lynch, although I should have done so earlier as
he is a synth artist (New Age, particularly).  He is one of the few New Age
artists who really does have a New Age mindset.  His music is easy to meditate
to.

In the same vein, I think Enya's music possesses a depth and complexity the
world has never known.  Her influences are Celtic, but the music is complex
enough that it has been classifed as New Age.  She doesn't use much synth
implementation; most of her music is several tracks of instruments she plays
alone and then layers together.  I think she is a phenonemon-- never have I
seen a musician command such a wide audience.  People I know that wouldn't
agree on two kinds of music listen to her and love her work.  People that
listen to so many radically different genres of music seem to agree she is
wonderful.  Her song "Orinoco Flow (Sail Away)" was an international smash
hit in 1988.  And yet, she avoids the limelight like the plague.  She seems
to be terribly camera-shy and rarely grants interviews (I can only recall one
television one, and that was recent).


#4 of 40 by mcnally on Wed Jun 25 03:45:12 1997:

  While I think Enya's music is pretty good (and *very* well produced..)
  I wonder if perhaps "a depth and complexity the world has never known"
  is stretching things a wee bit..


#5 of 40 by orinoco on Wed Jun 25 13:57:32 1997:

Hmm...as much as I tend to distrust much of the stuff labeled 'new age', I
realize I've never heard much of enya's stuff other than Orinoco Flow.  


#6 of 40 by lumen on Thu Jun 26 05:39:06 1997:

Hrm, wrong choice of words, I guess, Mike.  But I can't deny that when she
has created, so much of the world has stopped and listened.


#7 of 40 by orinoco on Thu Jun 26 18:50:14 1997:

Heard some of "the Memory of Trees" the other night...actually kind of liked
it.


#8 of 40 by lumen on Thu Jul 24 08:09:44 1997:

I should have mentioned Bruce Hornsby.  He's a very talented pop pianist, but
he never did seem to break out of the adult contemporary mold that made him
popular.  But he does rank up there with Billy Joel.

I'm also a tuba player (or was, rather), so I had to study some recordings.
I mentioned Roger Bobo in another item.  He was the tuba player for the L.A.
orchestra at the time the recordings were made; they're old enough that I'm
not sure if he's still there.  His style is bold and straight-forward; he
played fusion for an album called "New Perspectives."  He posesses polyphonic
talent: he can play two notes at the same time.  Basically, your lips play
one note while your throat sings another.  In layman's terms, this is like
practicing ventriloquism while drinking a glass of milk.  The range and depth
of playing is very limited with that style, and there is a lot of buzz in the
sound.

Charles Dallenbach of the Canadian Brass is probably best known for a
phenomenal feat of playing a transcription of "Flight of The Bumble Bee" in
under 33 seconds.  But he is a good, solid player; and the quintet in general
usually perform standing up, in their tuxes and white sneakers.

I'm surprised Jovan hasn't said more about guitar styles.  The guitar world
is such a competitive one that players are actually ranked in their ability
of playing.  Eddie Van Halen is one example of a top-ranked lead guitarist.
Now, piano players face equal or greater competition than that of guitarists;
but their world is so elite and high society that it is not as popular as that
of guitarists.  (I speak of classical pianists-- keyboard musicians are
another matter entirely.  Their competition is usually a technological one.)

I'll mention an obvious player:  Jimi Hendrix.  He expanded guitar frontiers
because he experimented so much.  He was metal before its time, but yet he
was so graceful.  I forget the music event, but Pete Townshend of the Who was
battling him for the crowd's attention.  (Jimi had stolen Pete's act of
destroying the stage.)  Although both were smashing things, Jimi was described
as making love to the music, while the Who were described as raping it,
almost.  Pete started the idea to smash his guitar, but it was Jimi who lit
his on fire.

Jimi Hendrix was left-handed and I'll never figure out how he learned to play
by playing his guitar upside down.  I mean, Paul McCartney had a left-handed
guitar made especially for him.  Definitely, he was trying things guitarists
hadn't tried at the time.


#9 of 40 by omni on Thu Jul 24 19:23:42 1997:

  You also forgot Stevie Ray Vaughan, who was right up there with Hendrix and
Van Halen, and I have seen SRV play the guitar behind his back. I am still
a big fan of his cover of Hendrix's "Little Wing"


#10 of 40 by dang on Thu Jul 24 21:42:02 1997:

(I was about to mentions SRV... :)


#11 of 40 by senna on Thu Jul 24 21:56:39 1997:

It's not hard, jon.. He strung it backwards.  It's a fairly standard practice.


#12 of 40 by dang on Mon Jul 28 02:30:25 1997:

Besides, I can play guitar left handed not strung backwards.  (Not well, I
admit, but I can play recognizably, and could get good with practice)


#13 of 40 by lumen on Mon Aug 4 02:04:16 1997:

Oh geez.. I am always constantly reminded just how competitive guitarists are.
But then, since it is such a popular instrument, I don't see why not.

I was reminded of where the polyphonic technique that brass musicians use came
from.  It comes from the Tibetan monks, and the style is taken from their
manner of playing.  Of course, I'm sure the monks have it perfected to a
science, whereas I would bet that few outsiders have really mastered it.

As for electronic instruments, I suppose there isn't much to say-- often,
technology makes up for technique.  See the electronic music item if you're
interested.


#14 of 40 by jovan96 on Wed Sep 24 08:04:48 1997:

Hello everyone ! Do you still remember me ? Im jovan, the one who wrote the
2nd item in this topic. Well I've really been busy with work so I was not able
to write a lot of things. I'll try to share some today if you'd like.

I listen to a lot of music. All types. But my favorite has always been pop
and jazz. I've learned to like new age as well particularly Yanni, David Lanz,
Enya and some others I could not remember. There is this band that I like too.
The band is Montreux, a band composed of a bass,piano,guitar,violin and drums.
Well, their music is kinda mixture of folk ,new age, and a jazzy feel. The
reason ewhy I like the band is that the bassist is Michael Manring. I think
he is really one of the best bass players there is in the world. 

Speaking of bassists, Michael Manring plays alot of fretlesses. He plays the
bass detuned. Meaning the strings are not tuned conventionally. He makes his
own tuning to create the sound that he likes. If you have heard some of his
songs, sometimes, you will be confused if the sound is a bass or a keyboard
since he plays a lot of harmonics (You guitarists out there shoulkd know about
this.) If you get to buy one, choose the "Drastic Measure" album. I hope you
will like it. If you are a bassist out there, you should try listening to his
music so your mind widens what you can do to the bass.

I think I've had enough. Please do share your favorite musicians and their


#15 of 40 by funnie on Tue Apr 28 13:56:00 1998:

Hey! I was just checking out all the items. Is this item frozen too?
I would very much like to revive this one as I have learnt about so many
things today. May be lumen is good enough to do that.


#16 of 40 by omni on Tue Apr 28 14:07:36 1998:

  No, this item is not frozen. If it was you would have seen a message telling
you that response was not possible. This item might be a little old, and there
are others that are older, but it is not frozen.

  Have fun, respond all you like.


#17 of 40 by lumen on Wed Apr 29 03:19:04 1998:

Heh, no, Fun, I know next to nothing.  Glad to hear from you again, Jovanne.
Nice to hear you mentioned harmonics.  Eddie Van Halen, for example, played
a song entirely in harmonics on the Van Halen III album (the group's latest
offering).  He explained it to Matt Pinfield on the Matt Rock show and tried
to play it.  He couldn't.  Harmonics can really be a bitch to play since
you're isolating a partial.  Anyone that knows about the overtone series knows
that a string, although it will sound one note in particular, there are many
other tones that vibrate along it.  So a harmonic is an isolation of one of
these tones.

Except for lowering the sixth string from an E to D (often called drop-D
tuning), detuning, or alternate tunings, is not standard practice among
guitarists.  Those that play Celtic music (often including a lute) and Eastern
styles frequently tune their guitars differently-- for example, a fourth
apart.

Would someone please tell me the name of the metal guitarist who took a bass
violin bow and used it to play his electric guitar?

One thing I forgot to mention about harmonics is that electronic mediums often
delete overtones.  This is why violins, trumpets, and electric guitar modules
sound really funny on many electronic pianos.  Analog (electric) synths don't
do this, but the sound is often very dirty and you have to make patch kits
to manipulate them by MIDI, I believe (I don't know if converters are still
available).  However, pitch benders, digital reverb/flanging machines,
specific synth envelopes, mixing boards, etc. can overcome or compensate for
these problems.

Now, would someone who really knows what they are talking about please speak
up?

Oh yeah-- then we could probably go on for days about acoustic guitar styles--
playing on the fingertips, playing on the nails, flamenco styles, classical
styles, folk styles, etc., etc., etc.  *This* I could go look up.


#18 of 40 by cyklone on Wed Apr 29 13:35:40 1998:

Jimmy Page of Led Zepplin is the guitarist who used a violin bow on his
electric guitar (and was also parodied well in "This Is Spinal Tap").
Harmonics on bass are much easier to play than on guitar, due to the
longer strings, as the "nodes" are farther apart. There is also a
technique for playing harmonics with the right (picking) hand as well that
I have learned. Percy Jones, of Brand X was one of the first to truly
perfect harmonic techniques, particularly picking hand ones. Another early
pioneer, the late Jaco Pastorius, also recorded an amazing song called
"Portrait of Tracy"  (dedicated to his wife) that combines harmonic and
normally plucked notes, with the harmonics dominating. The song also
involves a lot of chords. I have been learning this song for years and can
play some parts quite well.  It is almost always guaranteed to make
someone's jaw drop when they haven't heard this song played before. I once
got an engineer in a local studio to come out of the sound booth and just
stare in awe when I started playing it as part of a sound check. 

Also, FWIW, it should be noted that the palette of harmonics available was
expanded significantly when guitars and basses were electrified (a
shameless plug for the pickup item). This is because acoustic instruments
can usually only generate a decent volume for the first couple of
overtones in the series. However, the use of pickups and amps permits the
weaker overtones to be boosted to make appreciable sounds.



#19 of 40 by funnie on Wed Apr 29 14:53:16 1998:

hey! That was cool :)


#20 of 40 by lumen on Wed Apr 29 23:54:02 1998:

No kidding-- I'd like to hear this "Portrait of Tracy."

Basses are so expensive for me right now that I can't test any of these
theories, either, alas.

How do you play harmonics with the right hand?


#21 of 40 by scott on Thu Apr 30 13:21:05 1998:

Basses are cheaper and better than ever, thanks to high-quality mass
production.

I'm a bass player too.  I never got that interested in all the fancy basses,
and I'm still playing the '69 P-bass I got used in high school.  Not much
flash, but it can punch thru almost any type of music (I do best in R&B, funk,
and worldbeat).


#22 of 40 by cyklone on Thu Apr 30 13:33:29 1998:

Re right hand harmonics: Use your left hand to fret a note normally. This
becomes your "baseline", much as the open E,A,D, or G would be the "baseline"
note from which the overtone series begins when you play left hand harmonics.

Next, with your right hand place the side of your thumb (the part that falls
natuarlly on the strings) gently on the string at a point halfway between the
the bridge and the note your are fretting with your left hand. This is the
octave harmonic node for the note you are fretting. While your thumb rests
lightly on the string, pluck the string with the index or middle finger of
your right hand. If you pluck hard, while the thumb rests *lightly* on the
string, you will get a big fat harmonic. As you get better, you can also rest
your thumb on other nodes to get other harmonic notes in the overtone series.
You can also learn to fret different notes with your left hand while adjusting
the location of your right hand accordingly. Doing this I have learned to play
entire scales or melodies using right-hand harmonics. There are other right
hand techniques, but this is the easiest . . .


#23 of 40 by scott on Thu Apr 30 15:39:17 1998:

Hey cyklone, want to do a bass meeting some time?


#24 of 40 by cyklone on Thu Apr 30 19:41:03 1998:

Sure. I'm busy the next couple of weekends (recording this weekend, helping
out with the family cottage next) but suggest some times after that.


#25 of 40 by omni on Thu Apr 30 21:24:41 1998:

  I used to play bass, but I find mackerel keep their tun-a longer.

<I just had to say that>


#26 of 40 by orinoco on Thu Apr 30 22:52:44 1998:

(woa...a bass duo?  That's be wacky...)


#27 of 40 by lumen on Fri May 1 00:37:02 1998:

re: #22: I'd probably have to have someone show me.


#28 of 40 by shyam on Thu May 7 08:18:35 1998:

hi all....
Nice to see lumen and funnie herer again...
I was herer checking in ......

will be back..... see ya....


#29 of 40 by funnie on Thu May 7 11:01:34 1998:

Welcome, shyam.
I guess, I came across a phrase called "Celtic Muisc" somewhere. Is that a
muisc style or just the music associated with a group of people?


#30 of 40 by albaugh on Thu May 7 19:06:23 1998:

Browse through item #67 to get some ideas.  Generally associated with folk/
traditional music of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Brittany (France).  Of course
you don't have to be Celtic to play or enjoy the music!  :-)


#31 of 40 by funnie on Fri May 8 07:59:04 1998:

Thanks Kevin. I will check out the item.


#32 of 40 by diznave on Fri May 15 17:36:54 1998:

Here's something you might find interesting. I'm not sure if I've discussed
it in here before, but oh well. I play recorder (I own a soprano, alto, and
tenor), and jam on a semi-regular basis with two different groups of people.
One group is acoustic: two guitarists, another recorder player, and a tabla
player. The second group is electric: guitar, bass, drums (well, ok, the drums
aren't electric, but they're really loud, and that's the difference between
the 2 groups I was trying to convey). I love playing with each group very
much, but in different ways. Now with the electric group, it was fine at
first, but as the weeks went on, these guys got louder and louder, to the
point where I couldn't hear myself, so what I did was take a small clip-on
microphone you might have seen attached to the bell of a saxophone, and I
removed the clip. I then put the head of the mike right up against the hole
on the top of the recorder, where the air passes (and the sound), and tied
it on. I then just simply plugged into an amp the same way a guitar or bass
would. It sounds great!! And its so much better than what we tried originally,
which was me leaning over and trying to play into a stationary microphone.
The sound wasn't that bad, but that's only if I held my recorder in just the
right way, and didn't move at all. Now I have great sound and unlimited
movement. About a week after I got the clip on mike, one of my friends in the
acoustic group, between songs, looked at me, shook his head, and said, "You
know what Dave?.....I just realized you've gone electric." More head shaking.
Hey! They laughed at Dylan when *he* went electric. Who's laughing now, hmmmm?



#33 of 40 by lumen on Sat May 16 00:46:19 1998:

Sweet!  Sure, you just patched a mic on-- that's not unusual, except that it's
convenient enough to do all the time.  If you could build it into the
instrument, then it would be truly electric.


#34 of 40 by diznave on Mon May 18 14:26:18 1998:

True, and it would solve the only remaining inconvenience I have, which is
that I have three recorders, and one amplification system. I enjoy playing
all three equally, and sometimes play all three in sucession, but if I'm in
the middle of a jam, and have to take the time to untie the mic from one, and
retie it to another recorder....well, you get the point. The thing is, that
recorders, especially sopranos, are so small, that any kind of electronics
required to accomplish what I'm looking for is probably out of my price range.



#35 of 40 by lumen on Mon May 18 22:47:53 1998:

so portable mics would be cheaper, then?  Anyway, you might prefer the sound--
electronics tend to strip the hair off an instrument's sound wave pattern


#36 of 40 by diznave on Tue May 19 14:40:13 1998:

I'm not sure what kind of modification you mean. Do you mean (in #33) the
equivalent of a portable mic, but just wireless (not unlike a lot of
guitarists have today), or are you thinking of something electronic I could
put in the recorder that would amplify the sound itself, eliminating the need
for an amp?



#37 of 40 by lumen on Thu May 21 01:22:58 1998:

I don't know because even synths and electronic pianos are often hooked up
to amps, I believe.  Can't remember.  I was assuming you were talking about
a wireless mic.


#38 of 40 by diznave on Sun May 24 06:50:10 1998:

I'm sorry, Jon...the last bit of your response (#37) was chopped off. All I
got was " I was assuming you were talking about..".



#39 of 40 by lumen on Mon May 25 23:39:16 1998:

a wireless mic.


#40 of 40 by lumen on Mon Mar 8 23:31:01 1999:

I just started classical guitar lessons last week, and my next lesson is 
tomorrow.  I'm so excited.

One technique I learned-- just a small one-- that I liked was a 
three-finger Spanish strum-- I have no idea what it's called.  While 
strumming, you just roll from the index, to the middle, and to the ring 
finger.  If you do it right, you'll probably recognize the effect.


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