Grex Music2 Conference

Item 318: im fragile

Entered by fragile on Thu Jul 12 04:51:14 2001:

how could i 
ever think
its funny how 

everything that swore it wouldn't change
is different now
just like you would always say
we'll mke it through
then my head fell apart and where were you?
14 responses total.

#1 of 14 by beeswing on Thu Jul 12 11:21:39 2001:

This must be the morning-after poetry item...


#2 of 14 by senna on Thu Jul 12 12:20:24 2001:

Not original, either.  This person is a big NIN fan.  This piece is from the
album probably not coincidently entitled The Fragile.



#3 of 14 by brighn on Thu Jul 12 13:51:35 2001:

Line 4 is:
everything you swore would never change
(or something like that... my version's closer, at any rate)
(i bring you closer to trent)


#4 of 14 by tpryan on Thu Jul 12 16:17:07 2001:

        welcome to (cyber) Fragle Rock!


#5 of 14 by senna on Thu Jul 12 18:25:15 2001:

I'm still surprised that this album didn't sell better.  I guess my generation
of angst-ridden whiny teens has graduated into other music, and the replacing
generation is still listing to NSync.

Which isn't to say that this is just an angsty, whiny album.  I think it's
rather brilliant, but it didn't have much of a market.


#6 of 14 by brighn on Thu Jul 12 18:52:33 2001:

It was too mature. Its emotional duress was more complicated and polished than
the raw gonna-eat-worms-and-die mentality of The Downward Spiral. 

That, and the best candidate for serious radio play had a title they couldn't
even say on the radio; the title is repeated enough that it had to be censored
to the point of losing sense (Starfuckers, Inc.). When it was played on MTV,
I also noticed that Trent had changed a line, which made me think that Ms.
Simon's legal folks had threatened him with a lawsuit ("You're so vain, I bet
you think this song is about you" had been changed to something entirely
different in the video, which was called "Starsuckers, Inc.").

The best magic, at least for the entertainment value, was Trent + Manson...
Trent provided the musical skill, complexity, and pure emotion, and Manson
provided the Hollywood Clown motif, much better than his predecessor, Alice
Cooper (who had a few stern words for Manson back in MM's heyday). "Antichrist
Superstar" stands out as a grand example of the genre (for better or for
worse). While "Holy Wood" and "The Fragile" are both excellent albums, each
lacks the half the other provided.

Artistically, and technically, I think "The Fragile" is Trent's best work
(including the MM production), but when I heard it, I knew it wouldn't sell
up to its potential.

I should also have commented above that the other strong radio-oriented track
was far too sweet for NIN's old hardcore fans, even though it did wind up
being the track with the most airplay, I think ("You and me / Even after
everything / You're the queen and I'm the king" ... although alienation is
still a theme, it's Depeche Mode-style love-alienation, not NIN-style
suicidal-alienation: "You and me / We're in this together now / Nobody can
stop us now").


#7 of 14 by senna on Thu Jul 12 22:57:45 2001:

I don't think the theme of the song bothered people so much as the fact that
it was fairly fun of the mill.  As songs go.  Starfuckers, obviously, had the
most kick, and it's a fair example of Reznor's artistic integrity-the most
playable song on the album was also the least playable.  Still, I think it's
mostly a trend issue.  He's not in vogue anymore, and neither is Manson.


#8 of 14 by brighn on Thu Jul 12 23:13:02 2001:

This is true, that both of their fames were highly tied to trend.

I'm surprised Tool's latest is doing well, considering how artsy-fartsy it
is.


#9 of 14 by senna on Fri Jul 13 03:52:54 2001:

Tool has been "artsy-fartsy" for a while now.  This album is actually less
ethereal and more accessible than AEnima, I believe.

Tool cuts fans from a bit of a different cloth than NIN and Manson.  Both of
the latter wwere much more popular and media-loved during their heyday, but
Tool has built a more consistent fanbase that doesn't folllow trends as much.
That isn't to say it's a better fanbase or less angsty, but Tool has a
different sort of appeal.  They really got started during the grunge era,
sruvived that, and now they're doing well in the alt-divorce period (where
harder alternative has turned into rap-metal, and the fans who don't follow
that have moved into pop).  If they stay together, I wouldn't be surprised
to see them expand past this as well.  

It definitely is interesting to see that two harder, artistic albums that
run along the dark side would have different amount of success.  Remember,
though, that Tool is not burdened with the expectations of NIN.  Success for
Tool is not necessarily success for Reznor.  People expect different things
from the bands, too.  NIN tends to get classified purely as angst and despair,
perhaps a bit like rap-metal wades through so much anger.  Tool provides more
thoughtful music and a better balance of emotions.  There's anger (AEnema,
anyone?) but there is much more than that.  

Yeah, I'm a big Tool fan, and this winds up sounding like a big endorsement
for Tool, but I'm a fan of all the genres brought up here.  Believe it or not,
I *am* trying to be impartial. :)


#10 of 14 by krj on Fri Jul 13 04:51:06 2001:

((Should I link this to music .cf, or will that just 
  tick off carson?  :)    ))


#11 of 14 by brighn on Fri Jul 13 15:12:21 2001:

#9> I think we differ on whether "Aenima" or "Lateralus" is less accessible.
"Aenima" had more tracks that were radio-appropriate, but that may just be
because they went nuts with making the songs long on "Lateralus" (one positive
to long heavy metal songs, btw: lap dances; the last lap dance I got was to
"Aenema," which was strange in and of itself, but at least it was looooong).

But I agree that Tool has aged with its fans. That, and heavy metal fans tend
to be much more loyal than other types of fans, and Tool is more attractive
to those fans than NIN is. (Look at how many years Motorhead has gotten away
with putting out what is basically the same speed-metal album, and Yngwie
Malmsteen [among others] is actually starting to build his fanbase back up
again.) "Opiate" is heavy metal with just a slight edge of grunge; "Pretty
Hate Machine" is less classifiable, but is best classed as synthrock, I guess,
and at any rate comes off as more "trendy." Those are the albums where the
fanbase started getting built.

I also wonder how much APC affected Tool... I could see two effects, both of
which probably boosted sales of Lateralus: (1) For the hardcore Tool fans,
APC was a "threat" of "what could be" -- if you don't like APC, BUY LATERALUS,
let Maynard know; (2) for those who liked APC, Lateralus is a nice mutt album,
with features of both Tool and APC (although more Tool)... so, in that way,
it's less threatening than "Undertow," which is a long way from APC (and hence
likely to pull in some APC fans who hadn't liked Tool. Taken from the "Hooker
with a Penis" perspective, APC was a win-win situation for Maynard, when it
was timed: If it failed, it would make Tool fans rally around the next Tool
album; if it succeeded, it would pull in some fans to the Tool camp. Maybe
"Hooker with a Penis" *isn't* ironic, after all. ;}


#12 of 14 by senna on Sat Jul 14 07:15:06 2001:

I think the success of APC is exagerated a bit; most of its buyers were
probably Tool fans first.  I haven't seen any demographic info to back this
up, though.

Lateralus' songs are all long, but they're easier to break down.  If people
just listen to the first half of AEnima, they'll come away with much easier
music than the second half.  I'm still hearing new things in Third Eye every
time I listen to it, and I listen to it a lot.

Tool deliberately selected its hard pieces to put Opiate together.  Most of
Undertow already existed by then.  


#13 of 14 by brighn on Sun Jul 15 06:24:12 2001:

I agree that APC would not have succeeded had it not been fronted by Maynard.


#14 of 14 by arianna on Sun Jul 22 05:42:05 2001:

which is sort of sad, since I'm rather impressed with the ability of the other
band members.


There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: