Here's another item spun off from today's party chat. Several high school-age participants were discussing getting carded when buying CDs. I found this rather surprising; when I was a wee whippersnapper, "getting carded" referred specifically to buying alcohol. Tell me your reactions to the age-control system which is developing around buying music.34 responses total.
I think it's awful. Buying music (of all genres) is a form of self education, limiting access to pepoles choice in information (in this case music) can only limit our horizens. Most the CDs targeted will be those from people who are marganalized to begin with like African American's doing rap, and performence artists like Karen Finly. I don't like the sexism in some "gansta" rap but I think the solution is education about sexism, not age based censorship.
Like books, I agre wth raven that "buying music (of all genres) is a form of self education." Music should not be restricted based on content anymore that books are. I can see a scenario where a kid tries to buy a gangsta rap CD at Tower. The cashier refuses because of a warning label, so the kid buys some erotic novel or some "How to Kill" book instead. The cashier will gladly sell this, since there are no restrictions on books. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating carding kids for books. I think kids should be able to read or listen to whatever they want to. Restricting their educational choices would only injure us all in the long run. (I don't know if Tower Records or books stores in general have a policy regarding selling books with "adult topics" to minors. I'm just trying to use a more extreme example fo my point.)
I don't know. I think if I had a kid, and he came home with one of these gangster rap CD's, I would send him right back to the store to return it. I do not want my kids listening to crap like that, and if carding will prevent it, more power to it!
re #3 Yes that should be your choice as a parent, but *please* don't force the rest of us to abide by your standards. Who defines "gansta rap" anyway? Are Public Enemy & KRS1 gansta rap? If so you are writing off some of the most intelligent lyracists around, it might behove you to listen instead of just writing off a whole genre of music. Yes some "gansta rap" is extremly sexist even that material should be free from restrictions IMO, we should educate people why the lyrics might be offensive instead of jumping to censorship. <set flamethrower=off>.
The "getting carded thing is rather funny. At Wal-Mart, on certain videos, we card as well! rather lame and sick if you ask me. But then again, i expect to get careded for ciggies, why not cd's as well. (Its not a good thing to be 23 and look like i am either 12 or something rather teenageish.)
what videos do you card for? R? odd... i was in a walmart in canada this morning... rather amusing:)
I'm not sure whether or not I agree with a carding policy for music labeled for explicit lyrics. We would have to apply the same definition that we apply to pornography (as society defines it). I happen to think, though, that if it's as in demand and cigarettes and alcohol are, then kids will always find a way to get these labeled albums. The choice will always lie ultimately with the good judgment of the kids themselves and parental authority and supervision. We could argue that carding strengthens a parent's position-- it can restrict kids when parents cannot, but it still comes down to freedom of choice. The logical arguments are just as tangled as those for legalizing drugs. The only difference here is that the consequences are not as immediately or obviously malignant.
katy: The rated R versions and anything above a PG13 i think. That is a new thing they started about three months ago.
ew, that's skanky... is this just for buying? or renting too? cause i've rented videos that were r, all by myself (aren't i a big girl) ah well.. life does go on, and as the previous comment states, kids are gonna find ways of getting around rules, no matter what.
Even if there *were* some way to split up music and say 'this is Good For Kids' and 'this is Bad For Kids' in such a way that everyone would agree, I think carding would be a bad idea. As has been stated before, music is a form of education, and listing some things as 'forbidden knowledge' has two effects. First, it makes people want it more; second, it gives people a much less healthy attitude towards it. A good example is something I noticed many moons ago in 8th grade Health class. Those kids who knew a lot about sex tended to be able to discuss it maturely, while those who had been kept in the dark about it tended not to.
well at block busters, they have it where the parents can restrict the kids from renting rated r or whatever videos.... that is all i know.... i signed it even though i don't have kids.
Yeah, I did that too (signed the Blockbuster card saying I didn't want my kids renting R videos). Hhhhm. I hadn't heard of this before, and I don't think I like it. Carding for MUSIC?! How bizarre! I admit, there are records I wouldn't like my kids listening to, and I would be very ticked if they bought, but -- hey -- that's what a record store is for, to make music available to people. It just seems really odd to hear about this!
It's not like kids aren't exposed to the same stuff anyway. Preventing them from hearing the umusic does not, say, prevent them from getting tons of exposurte to the language in school. Or the same type of talk..l discussions among high school guys can get pretty lewd. I should be pointed out that carding for music is not a legal requirement... only stor e policy. Which seems to me to be absurd in itself.
if carding kids who want to buy music is a store policy and not a legal requirement, then i would encourage kids to send a message with their feet and wallets...find stores which don't card.
Ideally, parents should be aware of what their kids listen to, but many don't care enough. re #13: That's no excuse. Kids choose what kind of music they listen to, but they don't choose to hear what they hear at school. And by the same logic, is it fair that they card for R-rated movies, if you're alone? Or do they do that anymore? (I mean in the theaters, not in the video stores.)
Thinking about this some, I've changed my opinion a little. In an ideal world, people would be able to listen to a gangsta rap CD, or watch some sleazy movie, or whatever, and go away from it with the understanding that misogyny, murder, and general mayhem exist, but that they are problems and not things to emulate. Unfortunately, many people come away from these things thinking "wow, that sounds cool. Mr. Rock Star's a sleazeball, so I want to be one too" It pisses me off whenever I see an article in the paper denouncing Marilyn Manson, violent television, or the internet for 'corrupting our youth'. I find it offensive whenever people imply that kids can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality. I would love to think that people my age and younger are capable of forming intelligent opinions, having minds of their own, and realizing that X may be a good musician or actor, but he's one hell of a bad role model. Unfortunately, of late I've seen far too much evidence that there are a lot more sheep out there than I've thought, a lot more people who take an interest in the occult just because of Marilyn Manson or act violent because of Tupac Shakur , or whatever else. I wish I could say 'kids can deal with that sort of thing, let 'em listen to what they want,', but I'm no longer convinced that that's true
Yes, indeed, it seems the counterculture has produced the ultimate oxymoron: Defy authority and rules to become your own person, but do so as massive groups of followers. Kids aren't all making their own statement. The teenage masses are just another buch of lemmings following the latest trend. We shouldn't necessarily restrict them (because that is merely a short-term solution), but we should educate them. I'm not sure if I can take on that responsibility, because another musical generation gap seems to be looming.
Well what do you expect? That's always been the way that the counterculture has operated and at times its demands for conformity have been considerably stronger than the primary culture.. Basically the problem is that even if they wanted to defy authority in original, individualistic ways instead of as part of a comfortably conformant mob they wouldn't have the faintest idea how to do so because they just don't have the tools to be creative or individualistic..
I consider myself creative, and fairly individualistic in my tastes, so I grin =)
But what percent of your peers do you think are really creative or original? Isn't that number distressingly low?
What mcnally said.
Whatever. My opinion should matter the most to me, personally. Geez, you guys have been jumping all over me lately in various items :P
I'm extremely against mainstream counter culture.. I dislike the majority of defiance minded teens as much as I dislike the authority on me. I'm not particularly interested in satisfying any of these people, and for the most part I'd prefer to be left alone by them. Their ideas for what I should do with my life don't agree with mine.
That's why I think you're so cool, Steve :)
Aieeee! I'm not accusing *you personally* of being sheep, lumen and senna. There's nobody in this conference that I would call a sheep, nor any of my friends, which is why running into sheep surprises me so much. <dan is considering orthodonture to fix the nice, foot-sized gap between his front teeth>
But you couldn't call me a sheep anyways, Dan! My tastes are really electic, so.. The only music I've been lemming-like about has been Mannheim Steamroller (until Chip Davis decided to abandon a little band sound for orchestrations), and Depeche Mode (although there are plenty of people who literally worship them).
What you've never heard of a black sheep? Or perhaps plaid....:)
Nah, it's so bad it's the white sheep that are really doing their own thing..
That's only because Nissa hasn't shown up yet
<did I miss something?>
probably.
The carding thing is rather disturbing to me... the biggest question to me is who decides what is A-OK and what is worse than a Republican's campaign speech? What is the deciding line? Sex? Violence? What kind of sex? Is consentual sex something that should be censored? And while we're carding for things, how come you don't get carded when buying condoms, and act that would seem to indicate that you are actually *being* deviant, instead of just *listening* to deviants? ;) Oh well... the mysteries of carding will always elude me. Hey! I've got an idea! Fatty junk food is bad! Fat makes the children of america lazy and decadent! I propose we card 10 year olds when they buy Ice-cream from the ice-cream truck... maybe a sin tax is in order?
(Well, if you're going to be deviant, you might as well be _safely_ deviant)
listening to deviants is the safest deviancy of all. No one has EVER contracted HIV from a CD, probably.
You have several choices: