Grex Music2 Conference

Item 253: Who/What Will be Remembered from the 20th Century?

Entered by scott on Sat May 13 01:55:01 2000:

So who or what do you think will be remembered from the 20th century?  Duran
Duran?  Yaz?  Dixie Chicks?  OK, I'm using those as joke examples.

Pete Townshend?  He's been around for at least 2 decades, and at least his
material from 'The Who" ought to stick in people's heads.

"The short-lived rise and fall of 'record companies'"?  It seems like this
century is extremely heavily influenced by technology.
34 responses total.

#1 of 34 by other on Sat May 13 02:38:25 2000:

over how long a period are we guessing?  as the centuries roll on, the number
of the remembered will decrease, probably reaching zero within 500-700 years.


#2 of 34 by carla on Sat May 13 06:42:13 2000:

Hey don't be dissin on Yaz.


#3 of 34 by gypsi on Sat May 13 08:08:21 2000:

I love Yaz!  But it took me forever to figure out a girl was the lead
singer...oops...


#4 of 34 by bmoran on Sat May 13 11:34:00 2000:

Tha Beatles. Their music still stands pretty well. Some of it is still
used in commercials, which a lot more people will see/hear than heard it
on the radio or bought the record. 
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum will male sure we don't forget
even the one hit wonders.


#5 of 34 by scott on Sat May 13 12:12:02 2000:

How about we say 200 years?  I was thinking about how we remember Beethoven,
Bach, Mozart, etc., but I'm sure there were hordes of other people who were
popular at the time.


#6 of 34 by jules on Sat May 13 13:16:46 2000:

i love yaz. upstairs at erics is a wonderful album.

i have to mention that phil collins, between genesis, his solo career and his
disney stuf has had quite an impact.




#7 of 34 by carla on Sat May 13 16:53:09 2000:

who will be remembered?

TAFKAP


#8 of 34 by other on Sun May 14 06:55:10 2000:

These stupid 'pat-yourself-on-the-back' entertainment industry awards (grammy,
tony, oscar, etc.) don't mean shit.  nobody will remeber something because
it got one of these awards, because in order to keep them happening, they have
to give out so damn many of them that they no longer distinguish lasting
quality from ephemeral popularity.

I suspect that the great classical composers of the last 300 years were
standouts in a much smaller field and a much smaller marketplace and because
of those factors, the fact that they are remembered and celebrated today
cannot be taken as indicative of any likelihod that any of today's artists
will be long remembered.

Keep in mind that the mass media of today (which created the phenomena which
these artists are) thrives and survives on the latest cool thing, and more
and more so as time goes on.  The only time yesterday is remembered is when
there is profit in it.  How many successful marketing campaigns of today use
the classical compositions of the great masters?

If the mass media forgets, the mass market forgets.  Only the academics will
remember, and only for so long.


#9 of 34 by tpryan on Sun May 14 14:41:16 2000:

        Since it has been a century of technology, the audio quality of
recordings has helped with rock and roll being well remembered.  The
Rolling Stones "Satisfaction" again being toted as the best Rock and Roll
song ever is one point.  It is 35 years old.  It has survived well, partly
because the recording is close in audio quality to what is produced today.
Whereas, a 1930 era recording of 'Lucky Lindy' listened to 35 years later
in 1965, just did not make the audio grade.
        The other part of remembering is by the way music broadcasting
first began.  The concept of "Those Oldies but Goodies" did not become 
part of broadcasting music until near 1959.  Before that, it really was
just "Your Hit Parade"...today's music.  Any song remembered in 1939 was
a 'remake', usually by someone else.

        I would have so many names to be remembered, but I'll only 
add Hank Williams here.  His songs will be rediscovered and re-done
for many years.  Some may even enjoy the poor-fideltiy originals a 
hundred and fifty years in the future.


#10 of 34 by scott on Sun May 14 15:53:51 2000:

What will happen when the people who really grew up with, say, the Rolling
Stones are dead?  Will the music still have much popularity?  

Perhaps the big thing from this century will be the switch from sheet music
to recorded music.  I'm more curious which musicians will "stick".


#11 of 34 by bmoran on Sun May 14 21:51:07 2000:

My nephew and his friends were all into the Doors and the Stones and Zappa
in late high school and early college. Seems to be a phase they went
through. But they remember. Patrick's eight and learning Beatles songs on
his guitar, and watches Yellow Submarine on video. I suppose that as long
as there are anniversaries (25th, 50th, hundredth) some wag will write a
story about the old guys, Rhino will re-release some new version of an
oldie, and they'll remember.


#12 of 34 by jules on Mon May 15 02:27:43 2000:

i think some of us pass along the good stuff.


#13 of 34 by brighn on Mon May 15 13:30:25 2000:

How many of the "legends" of the 20th Century are already being forgotten?
The only 20th Century song that will be part of the social lexicon in 2200
willbe "The Girl from Ipanema," because it'll still be playing in elevators
everywhere. =}


#14 of 34 by mcnally on Tue May 16 18:54:01 2000:

   All of you who are standing up for Yaz, have you listened to any lately?
   I greatly enjoyed "Upstairs at Erics" in the late 80's, but hadn't
   listened to it in a loooong time.  Came across it about two months ago
   in my record collection and gave it a spin.  Whooo has that album aged,
   and not particularly gracefully.  


#15 of 34 by jules on Tue May 16 19:39:13 2000:

i listen to it sometimes, and i still like it.....


#16 of 34 by brighn on Tue May 16 22:34:47 2000:

I heard "Situation" on the radio recently, enjoyed it. 
There are tracks on the Yaz albums that sound childish now, but only because
they were innovative then, and the innovations have developped. The straight
up pop songs ("Situation" and "Don't Go") are still fine.


#17 of 34 by dbratman on Wed May 17 17:59:49 2000:

How about the greatest classical composer of the 20th century?  Fifty 
years ago there were people saying the greatest, or at least most 
influential, composer would be Schoenberg, because his twelve-tone 
system was taking over the classical planet.  (And contributing mightily 
to the rise of high art in popular music, as both musicians and 
audiences deserted the twelve-tone academy in droves.)  Fortunately 
twelve-tone turned out to be a dead end, so he's out.

The usual candidate is Stravinsky.  But though certainly very 
influential, his music has not worn equally well, and I can't believe 
"greatest" of a composer whose place in the repertoire is so spotty.

My candidate?  Shostakovich.  His music is profound, beautiful, highly 
varied, always of high quality except for some designated hackwork (and 
even Beethoven and Mozart had designated hackwork), and has been rising 
in tremendous popularity ever since Volkov's _Testimony_ made people 
feel it was politically OK to like it.

It's a big change.  35 years ago, the statement that Shostakovich would 
be a plausible candidate for greatest composer of the century would have 
been greeted with total incredulity.  But I admired him then as much as 
now, and am pleased that he's coming into his own.


#18 of 34 by raven on Wed May 17 18:47:10 2000:

I think there will be muscians recognized in all catagories many decades
to come from the 20th century.  Coltrane & Miles Davis in Jazz, Bartok and
Stravinsky in Classical, The Beattles, Bob Dylan (at least) in Rock/Pop.
Hank Williams in Country.  Probably many more but these artist at least I
thnk will have their recording preserved in whatever digital medium is
the format of choice in the future.  Actually I would add Duke Elington
and Public Enemy to that list as well.  I think an intersting question
is about women in music in the 20th century.  Will Joni Mitchell and
Bessie Smith be part of the archive or has the patriarchy still pushed
woman muscian to the margin?  Also how about world music such as Balinese
Gamelan, the African Drummer Olitugi, etc.  Perhaps the late 20th century
will be remebered as the time of global musical awareness?


#19 of 34 by brighn on Wed May 17 19:44:14 2000:

The Greatest Classical Composer of the 20th Century?
You're gonna slap me, but I'd say the one who most aptly combined the musical
trend of the 20th Century -- popular music -- with classical techniques. That
would be John Williams.

He created a few of the most recognizable classical themes of the 20th
Century, if nothing else -- the duh-DUM duh-DUM duh-DUM of Jaws and the
inspirational themes of Star Wars.

My favorite composer (and this shows how much of a simpleton I am) is probably
Prokofiev. =}


#20 of 34 by orinoco on Wed May 17 20:51:57 2000:

I don't think popular music is such a uniquely-20th-century trend.  They just
used to call it "folk music" or "dammit, the peasants are making that infernal
noise again" or some such.  Most composers of any time period -- and
especially those who wrote dances -- have been inspired by the popular music
of their day.

Now, you could make a pretty good case for the pop music _star_ as unique to
the 20th century.  In which case, the Greatest Classical Composer of Our
Century should be Michael Daugherty, composer of "Dead Elvis" and "Sinatra
Shag."


#21 of 34 by lumen on Wed May 17 21:42:49 2000:

I'll agree with the Beatles, the Doors, the Stones, and Zappa-- 
probably more so the Beatles and Zappa.  resp:11 Yes, we do remember-- 
there's just something about these artists kids like.  It seems most of 
the music department here reveres Zappa as some sort of god.  But I 
should note that Zappa is a music satirist, and his book was actually 
quoted by my music aesthetics professor.  I remember his writings have 
been discussed elsewhere in this conference.  Remember, we have noted 
elsewhere that musicologists have begun to consider the Beatles, and 
some music history textbooks-- at least the music appreciation ones-- 
have included the Beatles.

Hank Williams is considered a pioneer in the country-western genre, and 
if the medium continues to survive (as it has been heavily mixed with 
pop, R&B, and rock), then he will likely be noted.

John Williams?  Yes.  I think Paul said it well.  He's been compared 
with Gustav Holst, who *does* have a place in music history and 
musicological texts, and he was even asked to write a piece for Pluto 
to complete _The Planets_.  Go ahead, give it a listen-- Williams was 
*strongly* influenced by him.

I feel like I'll likely keep tabs on this.


#22 of 34 by sspan on Sat May 20 09:40:36 2000:

I thinkit willbe the disco song that refuses to die.. Shake Your Groove Thing.


#23 of 34 by jor on Sat May 20 12:53:28 2000:

        more votes for Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich


#24 of 34 by other on Sat May 20 16:35:15 2000:

Scriabin.  Love that synaesthesia (sp?) thing.


#25 of 34 by slmshady on Sun May 21 04:07:45 2000:

I am THE real slim shady.


#26 of 34 by dbratman on Sun May 21 05:33:11 2000:

John Williams hardly combined classical and pop techniques.  He simply
took the stylistic traits of early modern classical composers like
Richard Strauss and Gustav Holst and applied them to film music.  Very
well, too, and you won't get much criticism of him from me -- though the
repetition of the same-old same-old in _Phantom Menace_ seemed a bit
tired, and for the first time, I felt that _Star Wars_ really seemed
like an old hack Sunday serial, as Lucas intended.  But even at its
best, I wouldn't count Williams's achievement at century-best level.

Who did combine classical and pop techniques well?  Surprisingly, the
minimalists, several of whom have been brilliant at writing classical
music with a rock sensibility (especially in pacing and structure).  And
a lot of classical-influenced pop musicians, especially of the art rock
school: not ELP, who suck, but Renaissance in particular.

I like Prokofiev a whole lot.  He isn't #1, but he's definitely in the
top ten of the century for me, possibly the top five.


#27 of 34 by raven on Sun May 21 18:38:27 2000:

Gershwin <sp?> would be the inovator of combing classical and popular music
in the 20th century.  Rhaposody in Blue is probably going to be remembered
for a while if nothing else for being so damn catchy.

I still think Bartok the best of 20th century harmonic inovations and combined
them with haunting melodies and interesting percussion to make some of the most
intersting 20th century classical IMO.


#28 of 34 by orinoco on Sun May 21 20:31:13 2000:

Gershwin may have done it before the Minimalists did, but in my opinion he
didn't do as good or as interesting a job of it.  "Rhapsody in Blue" is
catchy, yeah, but the combination of classical and popular ideas doesn't run
very deep -- it's basically a straightforward classical showpiece with a few
"jazzy" notes thrown in for effect.  

If you want an earlier example of popular/classical crossover than Gershwin,
I'd look at Charles Ives, who managed to incorporate a lot of the spirit and
raucousness of popular music into his compositions, rather than writing fussy
classical pieces on the blues scale.  


#29 of 34 by lumen on Thu May 25 00:08:01 2000:

Charles Ives is *already* a part of music history study.  He's already 
been cast by scholars, so don't bother worrying about whether or not 
he'll be remembered.  


#30 of 34 by dbratman on Tue May 30 20:05:37 2000:

Gershwin, I think, would have had a profound influence on both classical 
music and jazz had he lived, but he died before he was able to take his 
fusion program very far.

Neither the minimalists, Gershwin, nor Ives, was the innovator of 
combining classical and pop music.  It's been going on as long as either 
has existed.  Many classical composers wrote popular songs in the forms 
of their day; and music for popular dances has been part of classical 
music from the beginning: Bach and Mozart, for instance, wrote whole 
suites of dance music.  It could even be said that dance music is the 
root of all classical instrumental music.

At any rate, classical music isn't "fussy".  Only bad classical music is 
fussy.


#31 of 34 by carla on Tue May 30 20:06:20 2000:

I own a copy of Gershwin plays gershwin, it's a great lil albumn.


#32 of 34 by goose on Thu Jun 8 01:45:56 2000:

Varese


#33 of 34 by isis on Fri Jun 9 03:10:06 2000:

Maurice Ravel. His orchestration of Pictures AT An Exhibition is simply
incredible, and just about everyone who knows figure skating has heard Bolero.
I'm also tossing in a vote for Aaron Copland and my gratuitous votes for Led
Zeppelin, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and Jimi Hendrix


#34 of 34 by dbratman on Mon Jun 12 23:55:03 2000:

Once upon a time, it was everyone who knew Bo Derek who had heard 
Bolero.  A protean work, indeed.


There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: