Grex Music2 Conference

Item 18: Alternative Country Hits The Big Time

Entered by krj on Fri Jan 24 18:26:14 1997:

Uh-oh.  There's a big article in Friday's USA TODAY about "alternative 
country" or "insurgent country."  I guess that means the fun is over.
Anybody else listen to this stuff?
65 responses total.

#1 of 65 by scott on Fri Jan 24 21:32:12 1997:

I'd be interested, I guess.

the world is too full of Garth wannabes for me to actually *like* country the
way it is now, so some fresh blood might make it interesting.


#2 of 65 by raven on Sat Jan 25 00:17:03 1997:

I like Steve Earle.  Somehow his music is very contemporary, yet is
also bluesy and harkins back to Hank Williams.


#3 of 65 by eskarina on Sun Jan 26 01:34:37 1997:

Who are these new alternative country people?  I'd probably be interested...
the country that they play on the radio stations these days is too close to
the "Adult Contemporary top 40" easy listening type stuff.


#4 of 65 by krj on Mon Jan 27 04:07:05 1997:

The band which gave the concept a sense of self-awareness was 
Uncle Tupelo; a couple of years ago that band fissioned into
Wilco and Son Volt.  Some other bands I've had fun with are 
Blood Oranges (defunct), the Jayhawks, Marlee MacLeod, and 
Courtney & Western (defunct, only a couple of singles).
Jimmie Dale Gilmore gets lumped in, and probably Lucinda Williams
and Iris DeMent too.  Namedrop, namedrop.



#5 of 65 by raven on Mon Jan 27 04:31:47 1997:

One might add two of the orininators, Mary Chapin Carpenter, and KD Lang.


#6 of 65 by bruin on Mon Jan 27 13:08:59 1997:

RE #5 Raven, that's "k.d. lang" - she spells her name with all lower case
letters.


#7 of 65 by toking on Mon Jan 27 16:03:41 1997:

hmmmmm...i suppose its a better concept than country rap    :)


#8 of 65 by krj on Mon Jan 27 16:56:02 1997:

Ah, you would mean Run C&W, there.


#9 of 65 by omni on Mon Jan 27 21:09:03 1997:

 Which are actually good. I own the CD, and it cracks me up every time.


#10 of 65 by albaugh on Thu Jan 30 18:05:24 1997:

country + rap = crap   ;-)


#11 of 65 by krj on Sat Mar 8 19:57:00 1997:

There's a nice new anthology on Bloodshot Records called STRAIGHT OUTTA
BOONE COUNTY.  It's a collection of covers from a certain local 
scene in the 40's & early 50's -- one of those tribute album sort of 
deals, except that there's a wide spectrum of songwriters.
The big discovery for me here are the female harmonies of Hazeldines
(i want a CD by them, now!!!) and a song by The Waco Brothers.  
 
I'd been sort of skittish about The Waco Brothers because it's 
a spinoff from The Mekons, and I've been warm and cold about the Mekons
for a decade now.  But the Waco track on this anthology sounds just fine.


#12 of 65 by krj on Thu Mar 20 11:22:32 1997:

The "Progressive Torch & Twang" radio show up in East Lansing played
a good chunk of the new Sun Volt album on Tuesday night.  It sounded
VERY good to me, much better than the first Son Volt disc, and much 
better than the current Wilco disc, which I Just Don't Get.
(Did I already explain how the St. Louis band Uncle Tupelo fissioned
to yield Son Volt and Wilco?)   Jay Farrar, leader of Son Volt, 
certainly has a distinctive, twangy voice.


#13 of 65 by tpryan on Sun Mar 23 17:30:15 1997:

        Run C&W doing Motown classics in a country style pre-dated 
a recent years CD collection of now-mainstream Country singers
doing the Motown classics.
        I have this on Run C&Ws "Row vs. Wade" CD.  I need to find 
their first CD (at hopefully a better price than Harmoney House
or Dearborn Music).


#14 of 65 by omni on Sun Mar 23 21:25:31 1997:

  I could make you a tape of my copy, Tim. Runs about 31 minutes


#15 of 65 by tpryan on Tue Mar 25 00:02:06 1997:

        Thank you for the offer, I might take you up on it later.


#16 of 65 by mcnally on Fri Mar 28 09:22:55 1997:

re #12:  Add me to the list of people who Just Don't Get the Wilco album.
After reading much critical acclaim for it and a number of descriptions
that made it sound like something I'd very much enjoy I picked up a copy
which has utterly failed to catch my attention at all.

My problem with most of the so-called Alternative Country acts I've checked
out is that while I typically enjoy a track here and there there are very
few of them that can keep my attention engaged throughout a whole album.
Perhaps I'm expecting too much -- there aren't a great number of acts that
can do that anyway but I seem to do a little worse than average in this
particular genre.


#17 of 65 by krj on Wed Jul 23 19:41:11 1997:

I should write something about the three or four country albums which 
have been engaging my attentions lately.  First on the list are the two 
Tarnation albums.   
Tarnation is actually singer/writer Paula Frazer, and her voice is the 
signature sound.  As Leslie explained it to me, Paula sings most of the 
lyrics in her chest voice, mostly an alto, but then she makes these 
leaping breaks up into her head voice for wordless vocalizing, almost 
a slow yodel.
 
On each of the two albums, GENTLE CREATURES and MIRADOR, Paula has a 
different band behind her.  Both albums have some songs which wander 
into dead ends, but half- to 2/3rds of each album really grabs my 
obsessions: I've made a great driving tape.  There's a bit of a 
Mexican influence in their sound; when I finally excavated the 
NO DEPRESSION magazine feature on them, they mentioned Ennio Morricone's
movie soundtracks as an influence, which makes sense.
 
MIRADOR has been in the Borders listening stations; don't know if it 
is still there.


#18 of 65 by krj on Thu Dec 11 06:59:21 1997:

For those who listen to the "Progressive Torch & Twang" show on 
MSU's student radio:  in this week's e-mailing of Tuesday's playlist, 
original host Jamie DePolo says she's leaving the show at the end of 
the year, since she's no longer a student.  
 
Over in the world music item, we had drifted into a question about
"what is insurgent country?"  I doubt there's too much inherent in the 
music to merit such a classification; it's more a social grouping, 
a perception.  Alt.country/insurgent country would be marked by 
an incorporation of ideas from the alternative/indie label movement of 
the 1980's, and at the same time an acknowledgement and incorporation
of the roots of country music -- the Carter Family, the Louvin Brothers,
Bill Monroe, and so on.  
 
It's also very much outside the Nashville-centric orbit of the 
major label's country music divisions, although as usual the majors
keep looking for artists to buy up.


#19 of 65 by goose on Sun Dec 14 06:19:28 1997:

one of the finest insugent country outfits is local: THe Volebeats.


#20 of 65 by diznave on Tue Jan 6 21:11:49 1998:

 for all you classic rock fans (i'll just drift a wee bit), check out The
 Byrds' last album _Sweetheart of the Rodeo_. Straight ahead country, right
 of the 40's and 50's. They actually performed at the Grand Ole Oprey (sp?).


#21 of 65 by mcnally on Wed Jan 7 07:06:19 1998:

  "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" is one of my favorite albums (and IMHO the
  Byrds have been seriously cheated of their rightful place in musical
  history by "classic rock" stations which don't play anything beyond
  their very cheesiest hits (i.e. "Mr. Tambourine Man" and "Turn, Turn,
  Turn.")  Most of the very cool stuff they did is stuff you never hear
  on the radio.  Check out "Sweetheart of the Rodeo", "Younger Than
  Yesterday", "Fifth Dimension", or "The Notorious Byrds Brothers" for
  four very different-sounding, very interesting, very important and
  influential rock albums..


#22 of 65 by lumen on Thu Jan 8 01:15:47 1998:

Cheesy?  Nah..not necessarily..they are just grossly overplayed.  "Turn, Turn,
Turn" I think is a remarkable achievement as a very popular song that uses
scripture for lyrics.  But I'll take your word for it-- perhaps someday I'll
check it out, after all this school :)


#23 of 65 by mcnally on Thu Jan 8 06:21:22 1998:

  OK, I'll take back "cheesey" as applied to "Turn, Turn, Turn" but you'll
  never get me to retract that accusation against "Mr. Tambourine Man."
  "Take me on a trip upon your magic swirling ship" is *NOT* a lyric that
  has aged gracefully if, in fact, it was ever NOT cheesey..  

  I really think it's unfortunate that with the possible exception of 
  "Eight Miles High" the best-known Byrds recordings are all covers of
  other people's songs ("Mr. Tambourine Man" / Dylan, "Turn, Turn, Turn" /
  Pete Seeger, etc..)  They *did* do quite a number of covers, particularly
  Dylan covers, but they wrote some great original tunes, too..   As far as
  the covers are concerned, my favorites are William Bell's "You Don't Miss
  Your Water" on Sweetheart of the Rodeo and the traditional "Wild Mountain
  Thyme" on (I think) Younger Than Yesterday.

  A lot of their music has aged poorly -- a fairly common affliction for 
  the bands of the time.  However, I think that much of the Byrds' original
  material still sounds remarkably fresh when compared to other popular
  music from that period.

  I'll take this opportunity to put in a plug for a fairly recent, very
  Byrds-like homage album by the British "shoegazer" band Ride -- their
  album "Carnival of Light" is an excellent combination of a lot of what
  was good about the Byrds sound *and* the early 90's Brit bands.


#24 of 65 by bruin on Thu Jan 8 13:12:44 1998:

The Byrds also recorded a cover of another Bob Dylan song called "All I Really
Want To Do," which hit the charts about the same time that another version
by Cher was popular.


#25 of 65 by mcnally on Thu Jan 8 18:30:29 1998:

  They recorded a *lot* of Dylan songs to varying degrees of success
  (commercial and artistic..)  Off the top of my head, you could
  also include "You Ain't Going Nowhere", "The Times, They Are A-Changin'",
  "Lay Down Your Weary Tune", "This Wheel's On Fire" (Dylan & the Band),
  and probably several others that I'm forgetting.

  I suppose this'd probably deserve its own item if people were interested
  in discussing it (rather than just me ranting about it..  :-)


#26 of 65 by krj on Thu Jan 8 19:47:00 1998:

There is a UK collection called THE BYRDS PLAY DYLAN; I think it turns up 
at Tower pretty often, that's where I got my copy.  


#27 of 65 by orinoco on Fri Jan 9 00:17:19 1998:

Was that a collection of Dylan covers they'd done elsewhere, or 'original'
Dylan covers they'd done for that album?


#28 of 65 by mcnally on Fri Jan 9 00:40:44 1998:

  The latter, I think..


#29 of 65 by krj on Fri Jan 9 04:11:19 1998:

It's just a compilation of all the Dylan covers recorded through the other
albums.


#30 of 65 by scott on Thu Apr 2 01:16:40 1998:

BTW, another source of "alternative country" can be found in Tom Waits' "Bone
Machine".  There's at least 4 songs that could be classed as country or
western.


#31 of 65 by mcnally on Thu Apr 2 02:59:31 1998:

This response has been erased.



#32 of 65 by krj on Wed May 13 03:28:26 1998:

The "Progressive Torch & Twang" radio show up in East Lansing had a 
great hour-long set tonight.  They started with some very nice 
rocking tracks, including one from the Old Joe Clarks, who are 
particular favorites of mine.  (Note to self: look for the track
"Lament" by The Gourds; this sounds considerably advanced beyond the 
one Gourds album I have.)
 
Then there was a long series of tracks from familiar female voices:
Gillian Welch, Iris DeMent, Emmylou Harris, Lucinda Williams.
But I didn't recognize any of the songs!!
Turns out that they are all on the soundtrack album for 
the new Robert Redford film "The Horse Whisperer," which goes straight
to the top of my must-buy list.


#33 of 65 by krj on Wed Jun 3 03:54:45 1998:

Yet another report on the Torch & Twang show: tonight they played 
six tracks from the upcoming Lucinda Williams album.  It's been 
long awaited; Williams has had the worst luck with record companies,
as her two previous labels folded underneath her.  The songs sounded 
pretty good: release date June 30.
 
Also yummy tonight was one track by The Hollisters, who I know nothing
about...  yet...


#34 of 65 by mcnally on Wed Jun 3 07:22:18 1998:

  I know Rough Trade folded out from under her (and a lot of others, too..)
  but what was the other?


#35 of 65 by krj on Wed Jun 3 23:10:59 1998:

After Rough Trade expired, Lucinda Williams went to a label called 
Chameleon.  Chameleon was a startup run by some executive who had 
left a major label, I vaguely recall, and it lasted about a year.


#36 of 65 by krj on Sun Aug 30 05:58:07 1998:

NP:  Wooden Leg, "Wooden Leg."  This band is the rest of Blood Oranges, 
what was left of them after Cheri Knight left.  It's a very nice
mandolin & electric guitar blend, lots of songs about death and killings.
I wish I'd picked up on them when they were current; this is a 1996
release, and I suspect that the band broke up.
 
Commended to Twila, who also likes Blood Oranges.


#37 of 65 by orinoco on Mon Aug 31 03:14:45 1998:

I've actually gotten to like the Blood Oranges more on a few re-listenings.
It just took me awhile to get over the fact that they were <gasp> Country
Music... But Cheri Knight's vocals were my favorite part of the band, so I
don't know how much I'd like them without her.


#38 of 65 by anderyn on Mon Aug 31 13:40:32 1998:

Blood Oranges were country music?! No way, hoser. :-) Actually, every 
time I've looked for them in stores, they've been filed under rock.


#39 of 65 by orinoco on Mon Aug 31 16:05:29 1998:

That's funny, they seemed very much country to me. 


#40 of 65 by krj on Mon Aug 31 23:48:24 1998:

It's a floor wax!  No, it's a dessert topping!  :)


#41 of 65 by orinoco on Tue Sep 1 02:12:13 1998:

<raises several eyebrows>


#42 of 65 by happyboy on Tue Sep 1 02:46:54 1998:

eugene chadbourne

oh my.


#43 of 65 by mcnally on Tue Sep 1 08:48:08 1998:

  Eugene Chadbourne?  I thought it was an old SNL skit..


#44 of 65 by senna on Tue Sep 1 13:14:46 1998:

It is.  I think I still have a tape with it on there sitting around somewhere.
First season, no less.


#45 of 65 by happyboy on Wed Sep 2 01:56:17 1998:

sorry...i was just thinking about all the
weerd country stuff that eugene does...
i have a basement tape that he traded to me
for a toledo mudhens cap (at the majestic)
it was himself doing coltrane and john lee 
hooker on banjo.  with lotsa feedback.

is that alternative enuf fer youse?


#46 of 65 by mcnally on Wed Sep 2 05:00:30 1998:

  perhaps a little *too* alternative..  :-)


#47 of 65 by krj on Wed Sep 2 16:26:24 1998:

NP: The V-Roys, "Just Add Ice."  This batch of Steve Earle proteges
is another band which could get filed in the floor wax bins or the 
dessert topping bins, as they drift between honky-tonk and 
70's rock stylings.


#48 of 65 by orinoco on Thu Sep 3 22:39:53 1998:

(I'd like to hear that coltrane/banjo thing, actually...)


#49 of 65 by happyboy on Fri Sep 4 02:08:24 1998:

his basement several years ago


#50 of 65 by raven on Fri Sep 4 06:26:39 1998:

Eugene Chadbourne is great.  He played on a couple of early Camper van
Beethoven albums.  He is a master of disonant country jazz improve.


#51 of 65 by happyboy on Fri Sep 4 14:58:32 1998:

yeah...i have some camper van chadbourne.  :)


#52 of 65 by krj on Wed Oct 14 19:14:44 1998:

Twila Price asked for a family tree for Blood Oranges.
 
Blood Oranges were Jimmy Ryan (mandolin), Mark Spencer (guitar) and 
Cheri Knight (bass).  The band spans 1987-1992; they broke up just weeks
before a show at the Blind Pig in Ann Arbor.   (I find one web citation 
for a 1994 split.)  The band predated the alt.country scene 
and didn't make any money; Cheri Knight says this was the cause of the 
split, in an interview in the webzine Country Standard Time.
 
Cheri Knight went off to have a solo career; her first release, 
THE KNITTER (1995) I found boring.  This year's album, THE NORTHEAST 
KINGDOM, I like a lot.  I suspect Steve Earle's presence has a lot to 
do with it; the album sounds a lot like the new Lucinda Williams 
album, also produced by Earle.
 
Jimmy Ryan recorded several albums for the ESD label, all of which are now 
out of print.  He formed a slightly purer bluegrass band, the Beacon 
Hillbillies, with guitarist John McGann.   The first album, which I think
was called BEACON HILLBILLIES, dates from around 1990, 
and I don't remember thinking much of it.  
The second album, MORE SONGS OF LOVE AND MURDER, 
drifts back to more of a bluegrass-rock style and I have been enjoying 
it a lot.   The third album, A BETTER PLACE, I got in the Schoolkids 
closing sale and I have not played it yet.

Jimmy Ryan teamed with Oranges guitarist Mark Spencer in another band, 
Wooden Leg.  They have a 1995 self-titled release, again mostly 
bluegrass/rock.  The webpage at www.hellcountry.com reports that 
guitarist Spencer has been replaced by a fiddler.

That's all the recorded spinoffs I know about.


#53 of 65 by orinoco on Thu Oct 15 00:41:42 1998:

Maybe I'll go chase down some of those side projects then. Thanks.


#54 of 65 by krj on Fri Oct 30 10:07:16 1998:

NP: Buddy Miller, YOUR LOVE AND OTHER LIES.   Miller has been getting 
a lot of attention lately as Emmylou Harris' guitarist in the Spyboy
band and album, and he also plays guitar on his wife Julie Miller's 
album BLUE PONY, which is a first rate album of country leavened with
rock.   On his own album, however, the sound and the songs 
just seem too much like stock Nashville hack work to me.  Not sure 
what went wrong.

I also might mention that I picked up Willie Nelson's new album 
TEATRO, primarily because it is a Daniel Lanois production with 
lots of Emmylou Harris harmony vocals.  So far it seems like a 
lovely album.


#55 of 65 by goose on Fri Oct 30 15:39:49 1998:

I had a chance to work with Buddy a while back, and he's a genuinely
nice guy who is very modest about his (amazing) playing talents.
I'm sorry to hear that at least this time around the songwriting
doesn't hold up.


#56 of 65 by krj on Sun Dec 13 16:15:17 1998:

For orinoco, following up resp:52 ::  The new mailout from the Northside/
East Side Digital/Omnium people says they have closeout CDs at $4 
each from Blood Oranges, Beacon Hillbillies and Wooden Leg.
Write to them at   chill@noside.com   and ask for a list, if you are 
still interested.


#57 of 65 by orinoco on Mon Dec 14 02:23:18 1998:

Ooh, thanks for the tip...


#58 of 65 by krj on Wed Jan 31 03:39:27 2001:

A kick for this item after two years.  I wanted to make some notes to myself
about this evening's Progressive Torch & Twang show, the alt.country radio
program on Michigan State's student radio station.  Three songs in 
succession caught my interest.  The first was a track from the new 
Bad Livers album.  Happyboy and I had been chatting about this somewhere 
in the conference, and based on the reviews I'd seen I hadn't been planning
on buying it.  But I liked this track, very intense and banjo-based, so
the Bad Livers disc moves into the "buy" queue.
 
Next up was Reckless Kelly, whoever he is, with a silly live cover
version of Led Zep's "Whole Lotta Love."  And finally, Wilco and Syd Straw,
a cover of a Jimmie Rogers song about tuberculosis, from
the "Red Hot and Country" compilation album of a few years back.
I don't know if that's still available.  Carla would like to hear it
for the presence of Syd Straw.


#59 of 65 by micklpkl on Wed Jan 31 04:20:47 2001:

Reckless Kelly *are* brothers Willy and Cody Braun, from Idaho I believe,
Willy on vocals and guitar and Cody playing fiddle and mandolin. Together with
drums, bass and more guitar, I'd call them a country band that knows how to
rock. They pulled into Austin a few years ago, and are making quite a hit
around town. During last year's Austin Music Awards, they won "Best New Band"
and "best roots rock band." I don't own any of their albums myself, but I hear
their songs regularly on the radio, and a co-worker has the acoustic "Live
at Stubbs" and I borrow that from time to time.


#60 of 65 by happyboy on Wed Jan 31 12:47:11 2001:


        heh, alt.country...hank sr. would be considered
        alt.country these days.  so would bob wills,
        the carter family...


#61 of 65 by krj on Wed Jan 31 23:01:59 2001:

Note to myself, no one else is likely to care.  Paula Frazer has a web
site, like everyone else:  www.paulafrazer.com.  The band name Tarnation
has been dropped.  They are shopping an album; in the mean time, she sang
one song on the Cornershop album and five songs on an album 
by The Czars.


#62 of 65 by mcnally on Wed Jan 31 23:17:05 2001:

  I'm eating lunch while reading this and I missed the "z" in that last line,
  firing off a Ric Ocasek flashback..


#63 of 65 by orinoco on Thu Feb 1 02:58:43 2001:

Oh, that one chick on the Cornershop album.  Interesting...

(I think this is further proof that Ken and I come from different planets)


#64 of 65 by krj on Tue Jul 10 04:17:52 2001:

resp:58, followup for happyboy :: The Ark schedule lists Billy Joe 
Shaver for Wednesday, July 11.  "Opening will be Danny Barnes
and the Old Codgers, Danny formerly with the Bad Livers."
Formerly?  I hadn't heard about that.


#65 of 65 by happyboy on Tue Jul 10 14:15:23 2001:

they pretty much ended when danny barnes moved out
to the seattle area.  i think he still works with
mark ruben the bassist some tho.


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