Grex Music2 Conference

Item 174: LEAST favorite songs!!

Entered by richard on Mon Feb 1 23:38:40 1999:

Okay, to follow up on the favorite songs item, we have of course the LEAST
favorite songs item--- which songs do you really hate?  which songs make
you retch?  which songs make you want to take an axe to your stereo every
time they come on the radio?

Be merciless...you know there are lots of bad songs out there that deserve
a thrashing!
113 responses total.

#1 of 113 by richard on Tue Feb 2 00:01:53 1999:

Here are a few of the worst I can recall---

1. My Heart Will Go On (Theme song from Titanic-- Celine Dion)-- If I hear
this song one more time I will scream.  Celine Dion sings it well but it
is sooo corny!

2. Anything by Pink Floyd-- listen to Floyd for an hour and you want to
kill yourself-- music to get depressed or stay depressed by.

3. "I just called to Say I love You" (Stevie Wonder)-- the low point of
Stevie's career--- Stevie should convert to catholicism just so he can
go to confession and repent for writing this.

4.  "Feelings"  Feeeeeeeeeeeeeelings...woe woe woe woe
feeeeeeeelings...nothing more than feeeeeeeelings-- hard to believe but
this was a number one hit in the seventies.

5.  "I Write the Songs" (Barry Manilow)-- I mean who would write a song
called 'I write the songs"?!




#2 of 113 by hhsrat on Tue Feb 2 02:27:05 1999:

Re #1 - is your #4 the same song that has the line "Bring back that 
loving, woh oh oh that loving feeling, now it's gone gone gone"

I would have to say that I can't stand

1) The song that never ends.  My little sister loves it, i hate it.
2) Anything by the Beastie Boys
3) Any rap song in which you can't hear what the singer is saying
4) "Ironic" by Alannis Morissette


#3 of 113 by eieio on Tue Feb 2 02:31:21 1999:

1. I *don't*  think Sea Lion Dion sings it well! Her phrasing is all effed
up. She breaks words and sentences in awkward places. Not what I want for a
ballad.
 
2. But the fact that "Dark Side of the Moon" stayed on the Billboard charts
from 1973-1988 teaches us a valuable lesson: Write music that people like to
listen to while smoking pot. Get baked enough, you're bound to lose a record
or two. More sales, bay bay.
 
3. Point taken. But I still maintain that far worse was Stevie's appearance
on "The Cosby Show", in which he sampled the kids voices and sang that song
with Claire. It's true that without the song there would have been no scene,
but you gotta admit, it got worse.
 
4. Hard to disagree. Although I liked it better (ie, at all) in Spanish.
 
5. That's an easy one. Bruce Johnston.


#4 of 113 by md on Tue Feb 2 02:51:52 1999:

Literally every single song Barbra Streisand has recorded
since about 1964.  She even ruined "Guilty," which had BeeGees
sex appeal if not for her.

Bob Dylan singing Bob Dylan.  Others singing Bob Dylan are 
not so bad, unless it's Barbra Streisand.

"Nights in White Satin."  Gag, barf.

Most "evil" metal, or goth rock, or whatever it's called.  
Picture a pimple-faced pencil-necked geek who actually thinks
he's Satan's spawn, droning pretentiously on and on.  You want
to give him an atomic wedgie, or if that's too much effort,
just stick out a foot and trip him.

Christian rock, especially the faux-heavy-metal variety.  Like
they're fooling anybody.  Stick to "Lift High the Cross," fellas.


#5 of 113 by eieio on Tue Feb 2 03:36:34 1999:

(#2 slipped in, so my #3 is in response to #1.)


#6 of 113 by beeswing on Tue Feb 2 04:06:26 1999:

Oh my. Where do I start.

Anything The big B Streisand ever recorded. She is mean and needs to go 
away. 

That damned "Loving You" song with that ungodly high AAAAAA!! note. It's 
on Burger King commercials. It's evil.



#7 of 113 by katie on Tue Feb 2 05:09:29 1999:

Butterfly Kisses. Major smarm.

Anything by Melissa Etheridge. Somebody put her out of her (and our) misery.


#8 of 113 by tpryan on Tue Feb 2 05:34:40 1999:

        While Debbie Boone's "You Light Up My Life" was the most
chart-successfull song on Billboard ever, ?1978-1980? or so, it is
ranked as one of the top tune-out songs, and now, not played on the
radio.
        Minnie Ripperton ("loving You") died of throat cancer at 27.
4 octave voice.  Better used when she was with Rotary Connection.
        As much as I like Christmas music, Cheech & Chongs "Santa Clause
and his old lady" narrative comedy bit is tune-out, tape advanded, cross
the room to gong it on the CD player when it comes on.


#9 of 113 by jazz on Tue Feb 2 17:31:41 1999:

        I'll second Tim's nomination for the Burger King song as one of the
worst of all time.  Also:

        Joan Osbourne's "What if God Were One of Us", which she fought to have
taken from the album.
        Skinny Puppy's out-takes, including "Stairs and Flowers"
        Anything by Imperial Teen
        The entire genre of pop R&B


#10 of 113 by gypsi on Tue Feb 2 19:47:58 1999:

Anything by Metallica - they just WANT to look mean...ugh.
Celine Dion - anything
Any ghetto rap where they mumble or sample another song.
Anything by Jewel - quit whining!!!

"Rockabye" - ???
"Hold On" - Wilson Phillips
"Total Eclipse of the Heart" - the cheesy remake that came out a few
years ago


#11 of 113 by albaugh on Tue Feb 2 19:51:53 1999:

<Tune in to the "Bad Song Prison" bit Fridays on "Albom in the Afternoon">


#12 of 113 by mooncat on Tue Feb 2 20:18:54 1999:

Sarah- I agree with you on the "Total Eclipse of the Heart" re-make, I
so hate that song... It's sad and they gave it a dance mix? <shakes her head>



#13 of 113 by omni on Tue Feb 2 20:23:04 1999:

  I like most anything.  

   However, the one song that irritates me to no end is

   Cannon in D by Taco Bell.


  (I know it's Pachelbel, and I also know it's a Canon in D.) But it's
so irritating, I cannot listen to it without laughing.)


#14 of 113 by gypsi on Tue Feb 2 20:30:43 1999:

By Taco Bell?  <rotfl>  I'm going to remember that for my conductor.


#15 of 113 by eieio on Tue Feb 2 21:07:36 1999:

Actually, years ago I heard something with that exact name. Someone had just
figured out how to use a sampler, and the entire tune was played out with...
uh... various human noises.


#16 of 113 by md on Tue Feb 2 21:54:35 1999:

I was once driven out of a book store on Cape Cod by Pachelbel's
Canon.  They were playing a CD over the store's sound system that
consisted of endless repetitions - at least 30 or 40 minutes' worth - 
of that piece, with an accompaniment of New Ageish nature sounds
(generic birds twittering, the wind sighing in the trees, etc.).  Up to that
point, I'd thought of P's Canon as a minor annoyance, easily avoided.
After that, I realized it had become sonic prozac for aging and
increasingly anxious baby boomers.  If letting the world know you
have crappy taste soothes your nerves, Pachelbel is your boy.


#17 of 113 by steve on Wed Feb 3 01:29:45 1999:

   ...Lynard Skynard.


#18 of 113 by senna on Wed Feb 3 01:33:11 1999:

Anything that is prettyboy cheese rock.  Prominent examples include 
"Semi-Charmed Life" by Third Eye Blind, "Real World" by Matchbox 20, and 
"Slide" by the Goo Goo Dolls.  You'll note that all these artists share 
an utter lack of integrity, like to pass themselves off as ultimately 
cool sex symbols and do "hot" live performances, and have horrible names 
to begin with.  I can't say enough bad things about them.  

There are some other notable evil songs that I have to include.  
"Whatever" by Oasis is the epitome of awful awful songs produced just to 
get airplay.  The tomahawk chop must die.  And Only Wanna Be With You 
needs to be shot.


#19 of 113 by mrmat on Wed Feb 3 01:40:44 1999:

"Muskrat Love"-- the Captain and Tennile,  ecch!

"Afternoon Delight"--Starland Vocal Band, ugh!


#20 of 113 by eeyore on Wed Feb 3 03:56:13 1999:

ANything by Whoopie and the Blowhards needs to be removed from the general
playlist.

Brink in the Wall pt. 2 remade by Class of '99 is awful...it takes away from
the origional song.

Also, for as much as I like Metallica, their remake of "Turn the Page" Just
really ruins it.


#21 of 113 by beeswing on Wed Feb 3 05:00:43 1999:

Bob Seger. Bleh.

Michael Bolton. 

Wilson Phillips. They had mercy on us all and broke up.

Spice Ho's. Eh, their 15 minutes is up.



#22 of 113 by gypsi on Wed Feb 3 07:24:53 1999:

I'm so sick and tired of hearing the following that I want to kill
the DJ:

"Hotel California" - the Beagles (yes...I know...I did that on
purpose)
Hanson
Spice Whores
Third Eye Blind
Savage Garden
Bootie and the Ho-fish
Sea Lion Dion (thanks eieio...I love that)
Barenaked Ladies (cute for five minutes...then it must die)
N-Sucks, (should be sprayed with) Mace, Pus Daddy, etc


#23 of 113 by beeswing on Wed Feb 3 07:42:08 1999:

Yeah Barenaked Ladies is getting lotsa overkill, which sucks because 
their earlier CD "Gordon" was cool. Commercial success is killing them.

The Beach Boys... I mean first of all they're 90 years old, and the very 
name sounds silly. They've all gone to rehab and gotten hip 
replacements and it's just aged them terribly. And their music sucks 
ass. It just does.

Alanis. spit.

Yep, Celine Dion. How sad that her vocal talent is wasted on cheese-hein 
songs. 

Kenny Rogers, why? Dolly Parton, why? Together? WHY?!





#24 of 113 by gypsi on Wed Feb 3 07:47:00 1999:

Alanis Morrisslut?  HATE HER.


#25 of 113 by omni on Wed Feb 3 08:57:09 1999:

  Hey, don't dump on Seger. He did OK on a few songs and can rock.

  However, a few of his songs are annoying.

Hootie is pretty cool in my book.

  I agree with mostly everything else.


#26 of 113 by md on Wed Feb 3 12:41:12 1999:

I like Seger's "Boomtown Blues."  I've never understood why
Alanis Morissette inspires such extreme hatred in some people.
What's mainly annoying about her is the way her popularity is
so out of proportion to her music's value.  The music itself
is unobjectionable.  She might turn out to be more interesting
as a celebrity than as a performer, like Madonna or Jewel.


#27 of 113 by mooncat on Wed Feb 3 16:04:33 1999:

Meg- it's Whiney, not Whoopie.<grins>

That man always sounds too whiney for me. I just want to smack him.



#28 of 113 by beeswing on Wed Feb 3 18:14:00 1999:

Alanis's music is fake. She doesn't write her own stuff, and so it's 
like she throws in this false anguish yet she's yammering about stuff 
she's never experienced. So, I think the extreme repulsion stems from 
people simply not liking being lied to or pandered. People see through 
that. She is singing what sells, not because she has anything to say. 

Seger? Eh. I dunno. I just can't deal with him.

Eddie Money needs to go away. They keep playing him on the radio here 
and it needs to stop. Even the name... Eddie Money? Come on. 


#29 of 113 by gypsi on Wed Feb 3 18:18:15 1999:

I like Bob Seger, but it's more because I have happy memories
associated with his music.  I love "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man",
though...great beat and I can yell it while driving.  =)


#30 of 113 by richard on Wed Feb 3 23:37:20 1999:

most of the songs by Mariah Carey-- she's got a great voice and to her
credit does covers, but she comes across as really really conceited.

"God Bless America" because Irving Berlin insulted the rest of the world by
implying that America is God's favorite country, and that it belongs to
God.  This song is the reason Woody Guthrie wrote "This Land is YOUR Land...
this land is OUR land"

"Sooo..Sooo...Sooodio" (or however its spelled) Phil Collins-- Good thing
Phil did this on a solo album and didnt insult Genisis by putting it on
one of theirs!

Olivia Newton John, "Lets get physical"-- you'll notice Olivia's career
didnt exactly stay hot after this was released.


#31 of 113 by russ on Thu Feb 4 04:49:34 1999:

I could do without hearing anything done by a band assembled purely
by music agents trying to make a buck off of hype.  Singers who can't,
meaningless songs that can't even avoid repeating themselves, and
"musicians" who might know two chords are teeming like flies on a corpse.
 
I listen to public radio to avoid having to deal with this junk, but
one song which keeps repeating "when the dogs begin to smell her"
somehow was played around me long enough to recall as an exemplar.
Put them out of my misery now, please.
 
I shall only mention genres which could go away:  rap, the Jamaican
version (I think) known as "ska", "Christian" rock (what did the
apostles say about being publicly and obviously pious?)
 
Re #28:  If you want fake, think about whats-her-name who won a
CMA award for "Blue".  At her age she had no idea what being
blue was about, and you could hear it in every note.


#32 of 113 by eeyore on Thu Feb 4 05:52:00 1999:

Lee Anne Rimes must die.  Slowly and painfully.

Anney: That was my mothers name for Hootie...:)


#33 of 113 by omni on Thu Feb 4 08:35:16 1999:

  Hey, I like LeAnn Rimes. She reminds me of Patsy Cline.


#34 of 113 by senna on Thu Feb 4 09:42:54 1999:

Radio and MTV have tried very very hard to kill Christian Rock. Heh.

Okay, numerous songs annoy me like this, but "Jump" by Van Halen is the
absolute worst of the bunch.


#35 of 113 by md on Thu Feb 4 12:34:58 1999:

Mannheim Steamroller Christmas music.  


#36 of 113 by beeswing on Thu Feb 4 15:35:36 1999:

Christian rock isn't ALL bad. No, I don't listen to it anymore. But I 
think their motive, for the most part, is to give Christian kids 
something cool to listen to. I mean, they aren't gonna listen to gospel.
So they use the lyrics to project their beliefs. And since it's usually 
Christian kids listening to this stuff, it's not like they're imposing a 
view upon them. It's something the kids already accept. 

And yeah Christian music can suck as much as anything else.


#37 of 113 by happyboy on Thu Feb 4 17:24:04 1999:

my very religious mother who play piano in her
church 

refers to contemporary x-ian music as
"jesus disco"


#38 of 113 by krj on Thu Feb 4 19:20:37 1999:

   ((  winter agora #102  <--->  music #174  ))


#39 of 113 by torens on Thu Feb 4 22:55:03 1999:

It's amazing how much of the music here is stuff I've enjoyed listening
to - even Alanis Marmoset.  I hate 50s "doo wop" music (duke duke duke
duke of earl duke duke... :P).  Those songs drive me up the wall.

Like many people, I once liked Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall",
but now despise it.


#40 of 113 by richard on Thu Feb 4 23:45:23 1999:

a lot of mainstream acts are borderline christian acts-- U2 comes to mind.
There are a lot of religious references in their music.  Elvis Presley
released whole albums of christian religious music.  So did Johnny Cash.

Leann Rimes has a nice voice, but ten years from now she'll be doing
dinner theater in Jersey City, New Jersey like Deborah (Debbie)
Gibson-- her marketability will fade as she ages.  You can sell
a million records one day and wake up a few years later and noone
has ever heard of you.  Its a recurring theme of the VH1 Behind the
Music documentaries.

For instance, I'd list New Kids on the Block in this item, because
I hated their music, but they are long gone.  Sold ten million albums
back in the late 80's but now who cares.

Andy Warhol was right!


#41 of 113 by eieio on Fri Feb 5 00:06:10 1999:

Except that Deborah is a long way from the dinner theater circuit. Believe
it or not she has enough legit Broadway credits behind her to keep her out
of Jersey City for quite a while.


#42 of 113 by beeswing on Fri Feb 5 03:08:28 1999:

I don't think LeeAnn Rimes will fade out quite like Debbie G. has. 
LeeAnn's songs, while not earth-shattering, are not the cheesy teen pop 
crap that Debbie did. She has much more vocal talent than Debbie ever 
had. 

New Kids... bleh. I hated them when they were popular, when I was in 
high school. I recall my dad asking me if I liked them. I replied that 
they gave me intestinal cramps. He smiled and said, "Ahhh, I'm proud of 
ya, sweetie." My parents were also relieved I wasn't into Prince/the 
Purple Rain era crap. They even like Pink Floyd.


#43 of 113 by mcnally on Fri Feb 5 05:51:42 1999:

  re #31:  not quite sure what you're trying to say, but ska is not
  the Jamaican version of rap but a rhythm'n'blues=influenced precursor
  to reggae with a distinctive beat and traditionally horn-heavy 
  instrumentation..  perhaps you're thinking of toasting, raggamuffin,
  or dancehall? 

  also, despite the amount of crappy ska and ska-hybrids being turned
  out these days I'd be pretty sad if the whole genre went away -- it
  includes some of my very favorite music..


#44 of 113 by jazz on Fri Feb 5 12:48:19 1999:

        Mmm, I thought ska and reggae co-evolved.  Certainly there's a lot of
similarity between first-wave ska and reggae, and many of the central artists
of first-wave are also reggae performers.


#45 of 113 by jiffer on Fri Feb 5 14:25:27 1999:

SKA isn't like Raggae, nope. I was a SKA child. Ska now a days just isn't the
same. Why I remember int he good ole days... never mind...


#46 of 113 by void on Fri Feb 5 14:46:53 1999:

   pachelbel was the original one-hit wonder.


#47 of 113 by md on Fri Feb 5 14:51:33 1999:

I dunno, I bet David got pretty tired of requests for Psalm 24.


#48 of 113 by md on Fri Feb 5 14:52:47 1999:

But since the bible is a myth and David never even existed, how could
he get tired of anything?


#49 of 113 by anderyn on Fri Feb 5 15:07:23 1999:

Erm...

"The Little Drummer Boy" by ANYONE (I hate hate hate that song)

and anything by the guy with the high voice whose name I am blanking on 
but who sang things like "Walk Like A Man" (funny song for someone who 
sounds like a castrato to sing, I woulda thunk...)


#50 of 113 by beeswing on Fri Feb 5 16:43:11 1999:

Frankie Valli, wasn't it? I think he also sang that "Oh What a Night" 
song, which I kinda like. 



#51 of 113 by albaugh on Fri Feb 5 18:21:49 1999:

LMAO re: #48 (see name, ignore id ;-)


#52 of 113 by mooncat on Fri Feb 5 19:29:20 1999:

I was most fond of New Kids on the Block. <grins> But then I was a young
teen wtih poor taste in music. <chuckles>

As for Debbie Gibson, well, I liked her too... And didn't she just 
finish playing Sandy in Grease on Broadway?



#53 of 113 by md on Fri Feb 5 21:21:04 1999:

Thanks for noticing, Kevin.  (Btw, I think Psalm 23 is the one David got
sick of playing over and over at concerts, not 24.)


#54 of 113 by lumen on Fri Feb 5 23:16:33 1999:

Yeah, I like Frankie Valli-- others may not, but his performance on "Oh 
What a Night" as well as Barry Gibb's "Grease" is nice.  Write it off as 
70's disco trash, but I don't think it's at all near the most 
embarassing moments of that decade.

Yes, I *hate* teen superstars that have songs written for them about 
pain they have no knowledge about.  LeAnn Rimes and Alanis Morrisette 
must fade back into no-name nothingness, and perhaps die slow deaths.  I 
dated someone who worshipped Alanis, and it drove me crazy.

New Kids?  Yeah, they suck.  But the Spice Girls aren't as bad as they 
were.  Seriously, I posted an item why preteens love 'em and we hate 
'em.  We hate their unabashed pretensiousness and their saccharine pop 
stylings.  We hate the fact that boys and girls love them when they have 
no idea what hoochy mamas they are and that they're singing about sex.  
I mean, 6-year old girls sing their songs and have no idea about the 
lyrics.

I do not agree Pink Floyd sucks-- I rather like their music because it's 
mellow, and no, I don't toke.  I also enjoy the legend of watching "The 
Wizard of Oz" to the _Dark Side Of The Moon_ soundtrack.  I'm also 
manic-depressive, which may explain why I like Depeche Mode.  So sue me!

Speaking of Pink Floyd, The Class of '99 sing 'Another Brick In The 
Wall, Part II' like they're fried and smashed at the same time.  Blech.
It also reminds me of some band unknown to me who brutually murdered 
Three Dog Night's "One" on the X-Files movie soundtrack.  Help! Help!  I 
love Three Dog Night, and that was traumatizing.

"Any Man of Mine." As I said, it should be more like "Any Slave Of 
Mine."  Blech, Shania Twain, nothing but shallow beauty in the music 
biz.  I can't stand country and all their new emphasis on 
ultra-beautiful people and bubblegummy stuff.  New country would largely 
be pop if it wasn't for the singer using a twangy voice.  Not that I 
like traditional country much, either, but I could tolerate some of its 
80's crossover incantations.  So stone me since I like Dolly Parton and 
Kenny Rogers (I'd call them more folk rock than I would country).

Why the blast on Christian rock?  Oh, sure, it seems sacreligious and 
oxymoronic, but generally, these are people who enjoy various music 
styles.  Many of these musicians were into the drugs, sex, and moodiness 
rock sometimes glorifies.  When they decided to change their beliefs, 
and subsequently their lifestyle, they wanted to do music that 
celebrated their new-found happiness.  Now I'll admit I don't really dig 
praise music, and some Christian rock really smacks of 'praise the Lord' 
and 'He saved me' lyrics, but I think they've got guts.  I've especially 
admired Christian bands and artists who have had hits on the mainstream 
charts because religious references were subtle and more thoughtful than 
straight-out praise.  Jars Of Clay and d.c. talk have some notable 
songs.  Even the Christian 'metal' bands deserve some credit.  I thought 
Stryfer in the 80's was a real cool act (although they'd be counted as 
glam, probably).

I think Stevie Wonder's "I Just Called To Say I Love You" was sweet.  So 
blast me as a hopeless romantic who enjoys sappy songs :P

I hate Hootie and the Blowfish but I will make an exception for their 
song "I Only Want To Be With You"

Barbara Streisand post-1964?  Agreed.  Bob Dylan singing his own songs? 
 Agreed.  He's an incredible songwriter, but he can't carry a tune in a 
bucket for long, nor sing out of a paper bag.


#55 of 113 by md on Sat Feb 6 01:24:06 1999:

The lounge-lizard version of "Brown Sugar" in the Kahlua
commercials is blasphemous.


#56 of 113 by cloud on Sat Feb 6 01:28:58 1999:

Just one entry:


        "We Are the World"


Yuch.


#57 of 113 by eieio on Sat Feb 6 02:35:40 1999:

Steve & Edie's rendition of "Black Hole Sun". 
This could also be cross referenced to the "Just... no" item.


#58 of 113 by scott on Sat Feb 6 12:24:02 1999:

Pretty much any classic bit of music that has been sleazed around to make it
the soundtrack for a commercial.  I recall a Sony ad a few years back
featuring Marvin Gaye's "Mercy Mercy Me" with some extra percussion added. 
The really ironic bit was that the song is about pollution, to which Sony
contributes thanks to all the semiconductor manufacturing Sony does.


#59 of 113 by void on Sat Feb 6 13:26:27 1999:

   if i remember rightly, "oh what a night" was recorded by a band
called paper lace, and frankie valli wasn't the singer.  i'll happily
sit corrected, though.


#60 of 113 by eeyore on Sat Feb 6 14:15:11 1999:

The original was Done by Frankie Vallie and the 4 Seasons, as was the
remake.  I could be wrong on that, but....:)


#61 of 113 by bruin on Sat Feb 6 14:47:03 1999:

RE #59-60 BTW, the name of the Frankie Valli/Four Seasons song in question
is "December 1963 (Oh What A Night)."


#62 of 113 by tpryan on Sat Feb 6 14:53:38 1999:

        Originally labeled as "December 23, 1963".  That was not a good
night in the Ryan household.


#63 of 113 by eieio on Sat Feb 6 17:01:52 1999:

It's not all bad. My best bud arranged a portion of the recent Lincoln Mercury
"Save The Best For Last" jingle. Every time it plays, his two year old gets
slightly further from eating store-brand cereal.


#64 of 113 by katie on Sat Feb 6 18:07:56 1999:

Paper Lace recorded "The Night Chicago Died."


#65 of 113 by happyboy on Sat Feb 6 18:22:27 1999:

truly a great song!

"I heard mah momma cry...
 I heard her praaaaay
 the night chicago died."


#66 of 113 by beeswing on Sat Feb 6 19:56:04 1999:

::puke::


#67 of 113 by bruin on Sun Feb 7 01:45:10 1999:

Paper Lace also did the original version of "Billy Don't Be A Hero," a cover
of which was a #1 hit for Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods.


#68 of 113 by flem on Sun Feb 7 07:28:22 1999:

The problem with Christian music (and Christian philosophy and Christian 
art and Christian fiction and...) is that the music is secondary to the 
message.  In other words, its "success" is based on how accurately the 
lyrics convey the theology in question, rather than on whether it's any 
damn good to listen to.  Which it therefore usually isn't.  


#69 of 113 by mcnally on Sun Feb 7 08:02:16 1999:

  I tend to agree with #68 that the problem with Christian music is that
  there's generally more Christian and less music (you know what I mean..)
  but I have another problem with it as well.  Despite the fact that if you
  pinned me down I'd probably describe myself as Christian, the views and
  emotions sung about in most of what you hear on Christian radio stations
  are foreign to my personal experience of Christianity -- they just seem
  really hokey and irrelevant to real-life religious beliefs and spirituality
  to me..


#70 of 113 by beeswing on Sun Feb 7 10:11:08 1999:

True. Which is why I no longer listen to it. 


#71 of 113 by happyboy on Sun Feb 7 19:10:42 1999:

r68:  why is that a problem for you?  :)


#72 of 113 by flem on Sun Feb 7 21:02:48 1999:

Well, it's just a message that I have heard countless hundreds of times, 
and don't really have any desire to hear again, and coupled with music 
that is generally not even third rate, this makes a rather unpleasant 
listening experience.  
  It is not really a "problem", however, since I don't listen to it. :)


#73 of 113 by happyboy on Sun Feb 7 23:13:21 1999:

shhh...careful...any grant might hear you!


#74 of 113 by albaugh on Mon Feb 8 00:10:52 1999:

Anything that begins with "hooked on..."   :-)


#75 of 113 by beeswing on Mon Feb 8 01:58:42 1999:

Amy Grant has in fact separated from her husband of 16 years, Gary 
Chapman (also a christian singer, and host of Prime Time Country on The 
Nashville Network). So I reckon she has her own issues to deal with 
right now. 


#76 of 113 by happyboy on Mon Feb 8 02:38:40 1999:

i'll bet she gets herself a beefin' boob-job...


#77 of 113 by senna on Mon Feb 8 05:44:47 1999:

I'd imagine the lyrics are relevant to certain people.  The problem is 
that first and foremost the lyrics are relevant to the artist, and 
generally Christian music artists have a lot more security in things 
than, say, me.  Thus it's harder to relate.  


#78 of 113 by otaking on Tue Mar 9 19:54:59 1999:

The Whitney Houston song from the Bodyguard soundtrack. Ugh.

And IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
will always love you.

Celine Dion - All By Myself. "Don't want to be all byy myself. All by myself.
All by myself. All by myself. Dont wanna be all by myself."

Can the song get any more repetative?


#79 of 113 by bruin on Wed Mar 10 00:47:37 1999:

RE #78 Actually, the Celine Dion song you mentioned was a cover of a mid
1970's song by Eric Carmen called "All By Myself."


#80 of 113 by cloud on Wed Mar 10 02:29:06 1999:

The Last Noel.  That's a repetative song.  Almost every hymn in the
Presbiterian Hymnal, with a few exceptions.  


#81 of 113 by orinoco on Wed Mar 10 02:51:39 1999:

Wasn't it "The First Noel"?  Or is this the Christmas song you sing right
before the apocalypse?


#82 of 113 by lumen on Wed Mar 10 22:39:05 1999:

resp:79 Eric Carmen, hmmm?  I *knew* I'd heard that song before.  I grew 
up on a lot of 70's and 80's lite rock; I suppose my parents chose it on 
the radio pretty often to calm us kids or themselves down.

resp:78 "I Will Always Love You" was another cover, too.  Dolly Parton 
wrote the song for _The Little Best Whorehouse In Texas_, and it was a 
much more wistful, tender, and gentle song.  Whitney Houston bought the 
rights to the song when she recorded it for _The Bodyguard_ soundtrack, 
and turned it into the 90's power ballad mess it is today.

By the way, I heard a rumor that Parton asked Houston once if she could 
sing the song one more time for a charity concert.  Houston flatly 
refused, claiming the song was hers to keep.  I wonder if that's true, 
because I would have slapped the bitch.  (This legal thing about music 
is going out of hand.)


#83 of 113 by flem on Thu Mar 11 03:11:29 1999:

I'm sure I've heard a version of that song with a man singing it.  I 
have no idea who it might have been, though.


#84 of 113 by cloud on Thu Mar 11 03:32:27 1999:

Who do you think it should have been?
<Garth Brooks, Bob Segal...heh heh)


#85 of 113 by bruin on Thu Mar 11 03:34:15 1999:

RE #82 Dolly Parton originally recorded "I Will Always Love You" in 1973 or
1974.  The version on "The Best Little Whorehouse In Texas" was recorded with
a noticeably different arrangement.


#86 of 113 by katie on Thu Mar 11 04:34:37 1999:

Linda Ronstadt recorded it, also.

You don't need  permission to perform or record any song that has been
previously recorded.


#87 of 113 by cloud on Fri Mar 12 05:16:40 1999:

seriously?  Wow, that's a bit odd.


#88 of 113 by bookworm on Fri Mar 12 06:56:47 1999:

I absolutely detest the song from Old Navy's new comercials.


#89 of 113 by senna on Fri Mar 12 17:16:47 1999:

To perform it, no.  To make money off of it, yes.


#90 of 113 by katie on Sat Mar 13 06:31:09 1999:

Don't need permission to make money off it. You just need to pay your license
fees (7.1 cents per song per copy pressed, not sold) if you record it.


#91 of 113 by senna on Sat Mar 13 13:09:37 1999:

Then how did Keith and Mick make anything off of Bittersweet Symphony?


#92 of 113 by katie on Sat Mar 13 14:50:06 1999:

That was sampling, wasn't it? That's not the same as covering a song.


#93 of 113 by orinoco on Sat Mar 13 19:50:11 1999:

But apparently they did get sued out of a lot of their profits from that
particular song.  Someone else will probably know the details better'n I do.


#94 of 113 by senna on Sun Mar 14 07:59:03 1999:

So if you take an entire song, it's fine, but if you take only part of it...
we have strange laws.  Then again, maybe not, since a cover is creditted to
its original performers, which samples are still credited to the person who
did the sampling.


#95 of 113 by katie on Sun Mar 14 15:03:33 1999:

Covering a song is fine, and usually appreciated by songwriter. But copying
a song or parts of a song, and passing it off as your own is not. When you
cover a song, you're not supposed to alter it without permission, either.


#96 of 113 by cyklone on Sun Mar 14 20:31:49 1999:

The alteration is the key. Bittersweet Symphony was a significant
alteration of the original, and permission was therefore required. The
re-made covers were not "alterations" needing permission, and therefore
could be recorded and released under the compulsory license scheme. BTW,
Senna, 2 Live Crew did a remake of Pretty Woman that was a significant
alteration, and permission was requested and denied. However, the US
Supreme Court ruled that it was parody, for which permission is not
required. More confused now?



#97 of 113 by orinoco on Sun Mar 14 21:57:53 1999:

Also, in Bittersweet Symphony, it was sample taken directly from someone
else's recording.  Had they rented their own orchestra and recorded their own
version of the string part, I don't think it would've been an issue.


#98 of 113 by mcnally on Mon Mar 15 06:30:17 1999:

  I think orinoco's closest to the correct answer -- the salient issue in
  the Verve vs. Rolling Stones fight over "Bittersweet Symphony" was the
  unauthorized use of a significant amount of material from a Rolling Stones
  recording (had the Verve re-recorded the portion used they probably
  would've had to pay for performance rights for the Stones' song but that's
  much different than using the actual Stones recording..)


#99 of 113 by cyklone on Mon Mar 15 12:52:34 1999:

I'm not sure that's right. By sampling (rather than re-recording), the
Verve simply violated two copyrights rather than one. Not having heard the
original, I can't say how much Bittersweet Symphony differs. But there is
the possibility that it would not have been similar enough to obtain a
compulsory license, even if an orchestra was hired. However, I think you
are right about paying to re-record. Even if a compulsory license is not
available, organizations such as Harry Fox often have the authority to
license in the manner you suggest (and the Stones seem to be quite willing
to license their stuff, at least of late).



#100 of 113 by jazz on Mon Mar 15 13:31:02 1999:

        Does anyone know how long the sample is?  I'd heard that current law
on sampling had a minimum length before legal action could be taken.


#101 of 113 by cyklone on Mon Mar 15 21:19:11 1999:

I'd be interested in hearing if there is; it sounds like one of those
copyright myths that makes the rounds in the music community and on the net.


#102 of 113 by senna on Wed Mar 17 06:15:50 1999:

What consists of alteration?  Rage Against the Machine remade Bruce 
Springsteen's "The Ghost of Tom Joad," but reworked the music quite a 
bit.  It's quite brilliant, and the lyrics are still the same.  Would 
that require permission?


#103 of 113 by cyklone on Wed Mar 17 13:00:45 1999:

Well, if they copped the lyrics word for word, then they probably got
permission or a compulsory license (depending on whether the new music was
substantially different from original). As far as the definition of
"alteration" goes, that's the word I chose based upon what people have
been saying here. You should check the US Copyright Office Web site to see
the actual language for the statutory licensing scheme. As I recall, it
uses phrases like "shall maintain the character of the original version"
or words to that effect. BTW, is Springsteen mentioned in the credits for
the Rage Against the Machine version?



#104 of 113 by senna on Thu Mar 18 05:55:04 1999:

I don't know.  Probably.  I dont' own the actual single, which is 
bundled with a live album.  


#105 of 113 by tpryan on Sun Mar 21 15:40:08 1999:

        There is also some rule about how much of a song you can
play or sing on radio or TV before mechanical reproduction rights
have to be paid.  Similair, but not the same as using a sample of
a song in another song.  This is the case of 'stand alone' elements.
Otherwise, Alexander Courage would be much richer from the number
of time Kenvin Ubanks uses The Theme from Star Trek: The First Few
Notes.


#106 of 113 by cyklone on Mon Mar 22 00:28:57 1999:

Again, if you know where this is written, please tell me so I can find it.
I think you are refering to a myth. 



#107 of 113 by lumen on Thu Apr 1 06:30:32 1999:

Sorry to interrupt-- but is anyone experiencing a switch of y and th on 
Backtalk?


#108 of 113 by anderyn on Thu Apr 1 15:06:39 1999:

Well, sure. :-) The April Fooleth's Prank, I would say.


#109 of 113 by goose on Fri Nov 5 19:57:58 1999:

RE#100? --  ANy length of a sample.  There is no minimum length.

Getting back to the items topic, it's sad to me to see many songs that
I like being listed as the worst ever.  

But there's no risk with this one:  Don Johnson "Heartbeat"

IT gives me the willies just thinking about it.


#110 of 113 by otaking on Fri Nov 5 20:40:58 1999:

Did anyone catch the MTV special of the worst videos? They decided that the
top 10 on the list would never be played again. My favorite moment was when
Vanilla Ice destroyed the master of "Ice Ice Baby" on the air, guaranteeing
that it would never be played again.


#111 of 113 by lumen on Fri Nov 5 23:11:02 1999:

I did!  It was hilarious :)

However, I don't think MTV would really play anything that old, really--
 I doubt its target audience is thrilled with most of the 80's.

I always figured MTV sent its old stuff to VH1.


#112 of 113 by carson on Sat Nov 6 03:00:09 1999:

(...or to M2. I remember catching Marky Mark's "Good Vibrations" there
over the summer.)


#113 of 113 by lumen on Tue Nov 9 01:04:59 1999:

I wouldn't know-- you usually don't get M2 out here unless you've got 
satellite.


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