Can anyone suggest genres of recently-composed music that people who only listen to classical and a bit of ethnic folk music might enjoy? And/or list the different genres of nonclassical music currently being listened to, with a brief characterization of them - types of instruments, harmony, rhythm, subject matter if vocal, history. I would appreciate having this item linked to music. We are pretty ignorant and expect that there is some music out there we would like, but don't know where to look for it (not on KOOL 107!).122 responses total.
(Did you intend to post this in the Houseplants and Gardens conference?)
No, of course not, I wondered where it had gone. How to erase it here? Kill 37 - 'you can't do that!'.
(( Gardening #37 :) now linked as Music #161. ))
My first inclination is to point you at some of the recent deluge of Celtic folk albums, and some of the more acoustic side of the Scandinavian stuff. I'm guessing that Hedningarna and Hoven Droven are probably more rock-influenced for your tastes, but you might like the Swedish band Vasen (all instrumental, heavy on the fiddles) or Triakel (mostly harmonium and voice). To try out some Irish and Scottish music for free, listen to the Thistle and Shamrock program on NPR. WUOM in Ann Arbor has picked it up recently, but I forget when they are airing it.
Ah, apparently I linked too soon. keesan started another copy of this item, which is now music #162, after losing this one. I'm going to freeze this. I hope.
And apparently now that it is linked, I can't freeze/retire it,, and 'unlink' isn't a legal command. Help...
Okay, here's a copy of the (my) one response to the item in the Classical Music cf. I will now kill the item in that conference and then there'll only be this item in Houseplants and Music. *Or will there*? #1 of 2 by Michael Delizia (md) on Sun Dec 6 22:40:55 1998: Well, I love classical music. The non-classical music I currently listen to includes: Grover Washington Junior: Reed Seed. An album dating from around 1980. Jazz, saxophones, small ensemble, very cool. The Byrds: The Byrds' Greatest Hits. 1960s folk rock. Now-legendary covers of a couple of Bob Dylan songs included. The Rolling Stones: Beggars Banquet. Album dating from around 1970. Includes three of the greatest rock 'n' roll songs of all time: Sympathy for the Devil, Street-Fighting Man, and Stray Cat Blues. Lauryn Hill: The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill. Recent release. Female member of The Fugees solo album. Brainy rap, as rap goes. Various artists: Rain Forest. A compliation of songs by performers from tropical areas of the planet. Sold at Caribou Coffee as promo for their new "Rainforest Blend." I bought it on a whim and got hooked on the very first track, a song by an African group so upbeat it makes the Spice Girls sound like Rachmaninov. Various Artists: Swing Time. Another promo album, I picked it up at Bed Bath & Beyond. Glen Miller, Benny Goodman, et al. My favorite is "Leap Frog" by Les Brown and his Band of Reknown. The reason I bought this was for a dance at the local highschool, where swing music and swing dancing have inexplicably come into vogue. I almost didn't get it back. That's it currently. A few months ago it would've been all different. I don't think the above have much in common. I don't think there is necessarily one kind of non-classical music that's more likely to appeal to classical music lovers than another kind.
Okay, it's gone from the Classical Music cf, but it still exists here as Item 162. It should be killed before someone else responds to it. Hurry!
I retired the copy which was item #162 in Music. Now, if md can link this back to classicalmusic, then I think we will have what keesan originally intended.
Thanks to both of you for your efforts, what I was hoping to end up with was an item in Classicalmusic which was linked to Music, is that what we ended up with? How does one retire a copy, I need to do that to some listings in Classifieds that sold (or went into the dumpster). Next time I go to the library I will look for your suggestions on CD.
This is now linked to Classical as Item 42.
Sindi, I'll pull together some CDs to loan to you, if you'd like.
That is awfully nice of you, but maybe the library also has them, let me know a few suggested titles to look for. I went to Scandinavian dancing for a while and like the fiddle music, but am curious as to what good new music is around that is not designed mainly to be loud, or too easy listening. I have heard some interesting stuff on the Ypsi station, recently composed in the style of Indian classical music, by Germans.
Sindi, I play (a bit of) hammered dulcimer, so I'm seeing quite a lot of stuff built around that; & there are a lot of people out there with recordings you might like. The largest bulk falls into traditional & modern folk genres, but there's a fair amount of classical- based stuff that I (at least) enjoy. (Some of this is commercially available; a lot is more-or-less self-distributed.)
I liked Bolling's classical jazz. Where would I look for other classical-based stuff for other instruments? Are there particular composers to look for? I will check the library's folk section.
Oops. Someone linked it again before it got killed in Plants.
Another direction to look in... there's a decent number of bands with a big big classical influence who often get lumped into the Goth category for some reason, probably 'cause nobody knows where to put them. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of Dead Can Dance and Never The Bride, and maybe Rasputina. Dead Can Dance has influences from all over the place; mostly ethnic folk and medaeval music is what it sounds like to me. I haven't heard very much Never The Bride, but what I've heard sounds pretty classical - Piano, vocals, and cello. I honestly don't know whether you'd like Rasputina or not, but I have to plug them 'cause they're one of my favorite bands right now. They're an electric cello trio, and their sound drifts quite a bit - their first album, _Thanks For the Ether_ was more acoustic, and their second, _How We Quit the Forest_ is much 'harder' and more electric-sounding. They also act more like a typical Goth band, and can be a little offensive at times, but... okay, I'm just going to stop making disclaimers. They're really, really good, and with a distinct classical influence, and...yeah. Listen to _Thanks For the Ether_, I'm guessing you'll like it. I'll ask Liza the Resident Goth Expert for some more reccomendations.
Thanks again, can you define what Goth music is, if that is possible? I had
not heard of it until now.
I find that the New Age music played just before midnight on the radio
puts me to sleep (is that intentional)? It all seems rather repetitious, but
is some of it better than other parts? Our neighbor has been trying to point
out why some jazz is better than others.
Some of it is indeed quite good, but ... most of it puts me to sleep, too. Possibly it's no accident that they play it late at night.
Some jazz is better than others. Simply put, almost any jazz is better than Kenny G... At least, that's my not-so-humble opinion.
My neighbor has the same opinion of Kenny G, who I only heard of because we were given a free copy of him at Kiwanis, which we use to test CD players, and then someone who bought a player said he was her favorite. He apparently sings one note for 45 minutes (a bit boring in my opinion). Can you recommend any good jazz music that is less random-sounding than average?
Re defining goth: I was afraid you were going to ask something like that:) The only thing goth bands really have in common with each other is their generally dark mood. The bands I reccomended in #17 are all an etheral, kinda' melancholy sort of dark. There are also goth bands who are loud, angry, and obnoxious sorts of dark. It really depends. Meaning "go get some goth music" was probably not a good reccomendation. :)
No, but the pointer to Dead Can Dance was probably a good one.. Perhaps Cocteau Twins might also fit the bill -- I'm trying to think of music that's lush, layered, and atmospheric..
Would Borders have anything in this category that I could listen to? I should go take a look, with a list of the above suggestions.
Yes, I'd highly recommend Dead Can Dance as well. They have a very broad range of styles, however, so just picking up one album might not show you what all they do. My two personal favorite albums are probably "Into the Labyrinth" and "Aion", which both have very different characters, but I like all of their albums (at least the ones that I own).
Do they play traditional instruments or electronic ones? Or both?
Virtually all traditional instruments. From a pretty wide variety of traditions, too..
I'll re-endorse the Dead Can Dance recommendations. Even Bruce (my husband who doesn't like much *modern* music) liked them. They're a very lush sound, very layered....
I just copied down the suggestions and will check for them at Borders and/or the library and report back. Celtic, folk-rock and folk, hammered dulcimer, and Goth (did I miss any?). krj, I appreciate your offer of lending CDs but would be afraid to damage them (somehow I don't worry about library stuff). We have some library books due today, so will be going into town.
Judging from the condition of many discs I've checked out of the Ann Arbor public library you're not the only one who doesn't worry about scratching them..
RE #30 I had the same problem as you with library CD's, mcnally -- they have been notorious for skipping parts of songs and sometimes getting stuck and sounding like something from a science fiction movie. Guess there are a lot of library patrons who don't treat library property with TLC. (Same goes for all the library books and magazines which have pictures of naked people ripped out of them.)
Call me an old fogey, but I'd highly recommend the "classic" Blood, Sweat, and Tears and Chicago albums. The Moody Blues did some nice stuff also.
OK, you're an old fogey. :) For albaugh: if you like the old BS&T and Chicago stuff, as my wife and I do, you might want to look for another jazz-rock band from the same period called Chase, named for its leader Bill Chase. http://www.great-music.com/chase/chase.htm
Well, we got to the library ten minutes before closing, and I tried looking
in the electronic catalog for the various suggested categories and titles.
Found Never a Bride but nothing else except for some plain dulcimer Christmas
music, and they were closing before I figured out how to locate Never a Bride
on the shelf, so I got out some classical music from Iran and some harpsichord
music and some other folk and classical music and went to Borders. First time
I ever actually walked into their music dept. I figured out how to use their
touch screen after a while, and after several tries realized that Rasputina
is a performer and Never a Bride an album (you have to do three separate
searches for song, album, and performer) and guessed at the category (I think
it was rock). They had Rasputina and Dead Can Dance but not Never a Bride
(no longer published, since 1995) and lots of folk music but not the
recommended Scandinavian stuff (only the nonrecommended band). I then figured
out how to use the listening areas (first two were apparently broken) but
could not hear much over the loud and insistent background music. Listened
to a few things randomly in a few categories until the noise drove me away.
Does anyone actually go to Borders to buy classical music? They don't seem
to play anything that is not mainly loud percussion.
I will look for Never a Bride at the library, and perhaps Ken would
not mind taping me a few things, and the library might want to order some
Scandinavian folk music.
We have a book out currently with several pages cut out of it, all of
them seem to be scantily clad women (judging from the smaller BW versions of
the same things near the end). You would think they could have just bought
a Playboy magazine rather than cutting up a photography book.
BTW, the 1970's group Chase had only one major hit ("Get It On"), and three
years later Bill Chase and other members of the band were killed in a plane
crash.
Many classical music lovers also love movie music. Bernard Hermann, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith. Did you know that Rudolph Steiner, who composed the famous Gone with the Wind theme, also composed the famous theme to A Summer Place two decades later? Did you know that the music for Our Town, The Red Pony, and Something Wild was all composed by Aaron Copland? Or that the music to the movie Scott of the Antarctic was made into a symphony (Sinfonia Antartica) by its composer, Ralph Vaughn Williams? Leonard Bernstein wrote the music for On the Waterfront, but *Elmer* Berstein wrote the celebrated jazz-influenced score to The Man with the Golden Arm (among many others).
(Are you sure it isn't Max Steiner, rather than Rudolph Steiner?)
In point of fact, I'm a classical music lover who also loves
movie music. My favorite film score composers are probably
Bernard Hermann and Nino Rota. Hermann did the scores for
"Citizen Kane", various Hitchcock films ("Vertigo", "Psycho",
"Marnie", etc.), Truffaut's "Fahrenheit 451", Scorsese's
"Taxi Driver". Rota is most famous for "The Godfather" and
his scores for numerous Fellini films.
One of my favorite film scores of all time is Prokofiev's
score for "Alexander Nevsky", later arranged as a suite for
orchestra and chorus.
Prokofiev also wrote movie music. The one that comes to mind (in the suite drawn from the score) is _Lieutenant_Kije_. (I've never heard the original score played, just the suite in various arrangements ... starting with *playing* it in jr. high school band.)
Yes, Max Steiner is definitely the film composer. Rudolf Steiner, I believe, was an anarchist theorist. Probably composed atonal music on the side. Speaking of which, the first atonal score used in a popular feature film was the one for Fantastic Voyage.
...which, according to IMDB, was composed by Leonard Rosenman, who also did the music for Rebel without a Cause, Star Trek IV: the Voyage Home, and many other movies. His most famous scrap of music, however, is the "doo-doo-doo-doo" Twilight Zone theme.
Well, might as well admit that John Williams' Star Wars scores are heavily classical in style while blaring out catchy themes.
Not only Star Wars, but also Superman, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jaws, ET, Close Encounters, Jurassic Park, and many other blockbusters I've forgotten, I'm sure. Williams' style always sounds British to me, like a more tuneful Malcolm Arnold. Even his earliest "Cowboys" music, when he was still Johnnie Williams, has this quality.
Re 36:
To add even more to the list, the minimalist Michael Nyman has created
"The Piano Concerto" out of the theme from the movie "The Piano". Aram
Khatchaturian also composed some music for movies, such as "The Battle of
Stalingrad" (Russian, I'm guessing around the same time as Alexander Nevsky,
but I've never seen it. The music is great, though, if you like
Khatchaturian.)
This is drifty, but I just found out that Margaret Hamilton was in *two* of the three Copland-scored movies mentioned above. (She wasn't in Something Wild, not surprisingly.) She looked a little bit like Aaron Copland. Hmmm....
Add Ennio Morricone to my list of favorite film composers. He did the score for Sergio Leone's "Once Upon a Time in the West" and other spaghetti westerns. More recently he's been working with David Lynch, most notably the wonderful music for the "Twin Peaks" TV series.
Oops, faulty memory again - I'm merging two different people into one. The "Twin Peaks" composer isn't Morricone, it's Angelo Badelemati (spelling probably mangled). So count both of those dudes as among my favorites.
Badalamenti, I think..
Don't forget to check out the TV/movie soundtracks item while you're on this thread. Nino Rota is nice. I learned "Love Theme From The Godfather" for classical guitar and fell in love with it before I heard the actual recording, which features a mandolin instrumentation. A mandolin has to be played differently-- the strings fade away quickly when strummed or plucked, and therefore must be played repeatedly to compensate for lack of reverb. So the piece had a slightly different flavor on a classical guitar-- I have to use an occasional vibrato, especially on long notes, instead of the trill-like manner in which the mandolin is played. It's still nice. Speaking of classical guitars and classical music and rock n' roll, the former leader of the band Deep Purple plays classical guitar now (but no lute.)
(One of Deep Purple's early albums had rock versions of parts of Tchaikovsky's Romeo & Juliet and of a Beethoven symphony.)
Ritchie Blackmore was into classical music even during Deep Purple's early days. I remember reading an interview in which he pointed out that one of the chord progressions used in a DP song was lifted from Bach.
re 49: ?"Music for two unfreindly groups of instruments"?
Try Loreena McKennet. Contemporary folk, magical stuff. I got hooked on her background music for "The Burning Times." She has a new tape out. Canadian, based in Stratford.
A lot of people seem to like her but at least the singles I've heard have really turned me off. Judging by the bland magicky-fantasy lyrics I've heard I expect her to start singing about hobbits at any minute.. Given that that's my big reservation, should I steer clear or have I formed an incorrect impression based on the few songs one might hear on the radio (in particular the dance re-mix of "The Mummer's Dance", which gets played most often, really turns me off (not necessarily the music or vocals but mostly the lyrics, though the music doesn't do much for me either..)
Her traditional music is good.
Yah, her traditional music is good, and I rather like her version of the "Highwayman". She does tend to get off into a Celtic fae mood a bit often, but on the other hand, I happen to *like* Celtic fae stuff when I'm in the mood for it, and her music is just right for those moods, being not too New Age-y and mushy.
Sindi specifically mentioned recently-composed music in #0, so I've been holding off bringing up ragtime, most of which was written between 1895 and 1920. Nonetheless, there is contemporary music in the ragtime style that a classical music lover might enjoy, e.g. the compositions of William Bolcolm, Glenn Jenks, Frank French, Peter Lundberg, Bob Milne, and others. I'll provide more detail later when I have more time, if there's interest.
Sindi, great item. I'm just coming to the music conference finally, after not having been able to make the time for a while. The following are all things I've given to friends who are classical music people who've frowned on other forms of music. Not all liked all the things I loaned out, but at least I've never received any gagging motions from them upon getting the CD's back. For jazz, I'd say look at Jean Luc Ponty, from Canada. He is still making music today, and has been for about 20 years now, I think. A german group which has disbanded is Passport, headed by Klaus Doldinger. Very good stuff there. For rock, listen to the early music of Yes. Their offerings from the 70's such as "Going for the One", "Fragile" and "Tormato" are wonderful. They are my all time favorite 'rock' music, but that doesn't do them justice. Among Yes fanatics there is a strong coorelation with a liking of classical, myself included. Also called Rock, but more like folk are three albumns by Jethro Tull. Called "Songs from the Wood", "Heavy horses" and the last one whose title escapes me but talks of north sea oil. I can only think that Ian Anderson meant to do this, which was a trilogy of songs about nature, man/nature, and man/technology. The first two even my mother loves--Ian writes beautifully, and I have used the song "Velvet Green" to shut up more than one music snob who said that no popular music could be 'good'.
I keep meaning to get something by "Yes," I'll keep an eye out. Would you recomend any one album over another? Any I should steer clear of?
I think their later works (Talk, 90125, Big Generator coming to mind) aren't as good as the odler ones. If there was one specific CD to get... Hmm... I'd say either Going for the One or Fragile. (thats hard to think of, just one of them to get)
Thanks STeve, I figured if people who did not think they liked classical music could try to be broad-minded about it, I should be willing to reciprocate. I will try the library and Borders again with more suggestions. (The Finnish and Karelian folk music were not something I would want to hear frequently, maybe okay for dancing to in very cold weather). Thanks for letting me know whether to look for a performer or a group or a particular piece instead of trying all three categories.
Yes, it's frustrating, being told that you might like Albainin music and then not get any more pointers. Another two rock groups which might bear some listening to are Emerson Lake and Palmer (they did a version of Pictures at an Exibition), and the far more obsure group Camel (I belive the title 'snowgoose' comes to mind).
Are these all vocal? I tend to listen to music while translating and get too
distracted if there are words.
Other people looking for good non-classical music should also feel free
to ask for something specific in this item. I meant it to be of general
relevance.
I am wondering if the sorts of people who would have written good
classical music in previous centuries are steering away from a genre that is
not very attunedd to public taste any more, and composing in other genres.
Such as musicals and movies.
The Ponty and Passport (jazz) are non-vocal but all the rock is vocal.
All rock is _not_ vocal. I'll admit that I have yet to come a across a band which has _no_ vocal, but that certainly doesn't mean that it's all vocal. Many of my favorite bands have cut instrumental tracks, some of them, such as Porcupine Tree, have more instrumental tracks than vocal! <'Cloud smooths his bristles>
Sorry to have helped raise 'em. You are right of course, but there isn't much rock that is even 10% non-vocal, I don't think.
Non-vocal rock: the Steve Morse Band, one of my favorites, is definitely rock and definitely non-vocal. Adrian Belew has also made at least one non-vocal album, _Desire Caught by the Tail_ - or so I've heard, never having had a chance to listen to the whole thing. And, if you're willing to accept a wider definition of what counts as 'rock', I'll add Ashley McIsaac (rock-inflected Celtic), the California Guitar Trio (like the name says, three guitarists), and Poignant Plecostomus (local jazz-rock band). I'll admit I'm reaching here, but I'm sure there are more than these few... Oh, and Medeski, Martin, and Wood - another jazz-rock band, but more rock than jazz to my ears.
I'd count Ashley McIsaac as rock--at least his first album seems to be.
How many kinds of rock are there? What do they have in common? How do they
differ from other kinds of music (or are the edges of categories fuzzy)?
I have heard a bit of techno music, which was nonvocalic. It was very well
done, complex rhythm but I don't recall any melody.
Are some kinds of rock intended to be louder than others? Is rock sort
of a catchall term for non-classical non-jazz now? How is rock different from
pop?
Like any other genre of music, I think its far to say there are lots of different kinds. Rock evolved from blues and jazz it seems to me, based on listening to stuff from the early 50's. Name a form of music and you can probably point to some rock that has that as an influence. It would seem to me that what some call acid rock is supposed to be played loud, but given that I'm not a fan of noise, but of music, I'm not the right one to talk. I do know that there is a type of Rock (MArilyn Manson comes to mind) which seems like pure noise to me and not at all worthwhile. But thats me. Your question of how pop and rock differ is an interesting one. Maybe pop is often times 'immature' rock? I don't really know.
Gary Hoey and Joe Satriani are two Rock Guitarists who put out non-vocal works.
Is there any rock music intended as background music in the sense that it does not try to grab your attention with a strong beat? I still have not figured out what 'rock' music includes.
It might be easier to gather a list of 'well known' rock groups and use that as a boundary. Rock encompasses a lot of stuff. I'm not there there is any "muzak" rock. It may be an oxymoron.
I can listen to Mozart while working (Mozart is not muzak), I meant something
like that. Lots of classical music was meant to be listened to while doing
something else (walking around the gardens or at a party).
How would you categorize the stuff played on the Ypsi student station
(not counting their Indian and Turkish folk music)?
Interesting? ;-) I'm not very good as classifying music, for probably a couple of reasons. The most important one is that I don't really care what people call it as long as it holds my interest. Most people don't have that view I think, which is why my entire grade shcool thought I was crazy for my bringing Kabuki music to school. All I know is that I like good things and shun noise.
Re #73: Anything can be Muzak, even Mozart. Muzak, IMNSHO, is a "dumbing down" of a preexisting piece of music, whereby the soul and originality of the work is removed, leaving only a homogenized sound, usually featuring strings . . . .
Devo did a whole Muzak album of their various songs. According to one
interview, it's the one album they all really like still.
("Muzak" is the name of a commercial service. They record their own special
versions of recent hits to add to the collection. Supposedly they have people
employed full time doing this, just to keep up)
particulary when the likes of Henry Mancini have become decomposing composers.
resp:60 :: Sindi, which Finnish & Karelian folk music recording did you try out?
I don't recall, but I doubt that the library had more than one.
I found YES at the library, not bad but too much beat for my taste, but I will
give it more of a listen. I like my rhythm a bit more varied. But this is
certainly above the run of the mill rock music. Track 2 is Cans and Brahms,
with electric piano and synthesizer. I prefer the original arrangment but
this is interesting and certainly classical-based. The album is Fragile Yes.
Jim also liked the Brahms and wondered 'how did they both get on the same CD'?
(I guess he does not like the third track).
Maybe I had better stick to classical and folk (original and
imitation). The rock is just too repetitive. (Not that a lot of folk is not
awfully repetitive). Boom (next track). Sounds like a howling wind, and too
much percussion for my taste. Does all rock music have a lot f beat?
I don't know quite how to classify this one, but Anthony Phillips, once of Genesis, has a series of wonderful things called "Private Parts and Pieces", perhaps seven albumns now, of various little things he'd written over the years but didn't use. I have several on vinyl and just one on CD, but apparently they are available on CD now.
I was at the library today and I took a quick look over the folk CDs.
The ones I would suggest for Sindi, if she hasn't tried them already,
were:
the Irish band Altan, any CD
the Irish band Clannad, IN CONCERT (the other Clannad discs the
library owns are from their New Age period)
the finnish accordeon player Maria Kalaniemi, IHO is the title to try 1st
the Swedish band Vasen, SPIRIT (all instrumental, I think)
the Scottish harp duo Sileas, BEATING HARPS
I didn't have time to scan the jazz section, I'll try that next time.
resp:79 :: I suppose there are exceptions here and there, but in
general rock music is characterized by its Big Beat.
Yeah, I think the beat is what really puts it appart from other types of
music. It does not nessessarilly mean that the beat has to be simple. I was
reading up on Gentle Giant yesterday, and I came accross this interesting
snippet...
"In the middle section of Cogs in Cogs, the two vocal parts are in very
different meters. The first part to enter ("The circle
turns around, the changing voices calling...") is in 6/4, but the second
one ("Circle turns around the changing voices") is in
15/8. This means that the two melodies "line up" differently in 6
different ways. The phrases "meet" every 60 eighth notes."
I've listened to the song, and really is a neat effect. Maybe we should make
a new item called "Rock Music for Classical Lovers" it seems to be the way
this one's drifting... Oh well, I guess that the two are simaler.
Check out Genesis' "Suppers Ready" where the rhythmic figure is in 9/4 and the keyboard solos in 4/4.
which album is that on? I've already got "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway," and "Selling England by the Pound"
Its on Nursery Crime or Foxtrot (it may also be on one of their live albums).
Beats like 9/4 or 7/4 are common in Balkan music and farther east. I think that a lot of recent composers are borrowing from other folk and classical traditions now. Will check out the Irish, Finnish, etc. folk-based stuff, thanks Ken. (If it ever gets a bit warmer).
We may get to the library this evening so I made a list: Ken's Irish band Altan, Irish band Clennad, Finnish accordion Maria Kalaneni 'IHO', Swedish band Vasen 'Spirit', Scottish harp by Sileas 'Beating Harps'. Maybe some interesting rhythm stuff by Genesis, Jean Luc Ponty's jazz, Passport, and Jethro Tull. If nothing else, I will be more educated after listening. (Did I miss any recent suggestions? Went back 30 responses). Seems like the more unusual folk music was preserved on the fringes of Europe - Celtic areas and Scandinavia - or else there is just more interest in folk revival there. I have a couple of folk-style tapes from Hungary, but from the rest of E. Europe the folk music is mostly real folk, not folk-style. People still listen to it on the radio in Bulgaria or Serbia, and the pop music is often folk-influenced (the stuff you hear in bars). An Italian friend made me a tape of Sicilian bagpipe music, bagpipes are also on the fringes - Scotland, Sicily, Macedonia and Greece and Bulgaria. Are they used farther east of Bulgaria? Or in any recently composed music?
Scott would you unlink this from houseplants? Dunno how it got here.
Music to grow the plants by?
The folkies seem to be dominating the suggestions so far. I'd re-iterate the earlier suggestion to try Dead Can Dance and would add another album on the same record label (4AD), Cocteau Twins. "Victorialand" might be a good album to start with..
OK, it is now unlinked.
I found IHO (Maria Kalaniemi Finnish), the Best of Altan (Irish), Clannad in
Concert at the public library. I somehow ended up there without my list and
will try other suggestions another time. Also found in with the original and
newly composed folk music some non-Western classical music from North India
Inkuyo Music of the Andes, and Armenia: Sources (folk?). For some reason
Asian classical music is classified as folk.
My apologies on the houseplant involvement, but I had accidentally
entered this item there, as you will realize if you start reading at the first
response. Some helpful people got it moved to Music and Classical but could
not figure out how to unlink it from Garden. Scott, how did you manage?
I will try Dead Can Dance and the jazz suggestions next trip.
Unlinking has to be done either by fairwitness (in the cf where it's incorrectly linked) or by cfadm.
Possibly the reason nonwestern classical music is included with folk is the lack of written notation. (This might not always apply, but does to some things called "nonwestern classical", I think.) I can think of a few other speculations as well.
What other types of music notation are used around the world besides European? I am curious about Chinese and Japanese notation. Indian, Iranian, Egyptian... Some of these musics have quarter tones.
(I unlinked it by going into the plants conf. and killing it.)
The library has two CDs by Jethro Tull on order, and one three-CD set in a
large cardboard box that would not have fit into my backpack. After the
library figured out that Dead Can Dance is an author, not a title, I found
three CDs and got out one, which I have not yet listened to.
Clannad was pleasant but only 30 minutes of concert, and no explanatory notes.
One piece sounded like jazz to me, the others probably folk based. I have
not yet read the notes for Altan, which was nice contra-dance type music.
I like Maria Kalaniemi (sp?) on the accordion best. Again, no notes. The
rhythms of several pieces were unusual: 2 2 3 or 3 2 2 beats. One sound just
like Bulgarian dance music, not Finnish. Where did she get her ideas? I will
listen to them all again and maybe record Maria.
I also got out some Iranian classical music from the folk section.
I notice that nobody has recommended anything from the library's categories
of gospel, blues, or country. Are these all vocal?
Jim likes old musicals (old being 1940s and 50s). Has anything been composed
since then on the level of Lerner and Loewe or Rodgers and Hammerstein?
Clannad in Concert is not their best, Keesan. One of hte pieces on there is a jazz improv on a trad tune, and while it's interesting, it's not what their "normal" pre-wallpaper music sounded like. Which Altan did you get? I like them quite a bit. I don't listen to the other categories of music, much. I don't like gospel or blues or country, though some country is not too bad, sometimes. I've heard a really good album or seven by Mary Chapin Carpenter, and I think it's Lyle Lovett who's had one played at the ARk while I was working on cleanup that I thought was darn good, but I grew up with the twangy country sound, and hate that with a passion. I really like Camelot, and many people tell me they adore the "new musicals" such as Cats, but the only soundtracks that I have from musicals are the ones to Godspell and JCSuperstar and *rummage rummage* movies like "The Prince of Egypt". Of course, I am biased heavily in favour of voice, and I don't own that many non-vocal albums. I have some drumming ones, and a really nice instrumental thing from a PBS special, but that's about it.
Just found out that Dead Can Dance broke up. maybe this is old news to some people...but it makes me want to cry... *sniff*
Clannad in Concert was the one that was recommended. The Best of Altan. I am enjoying some Music of the Andes, to which Jim is tapping his foot. The Armenian folk music was interesting. Are there any groups that do recently composed Peruvian or Indian music, that the library might have? Clannad was something I can listen to while working because I don't know a word of Irish. (Yet). If anyone wants, I can tape for them a selection of folk music from the Balkans (Albania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Romania) and E. Europe (Serbian/Croatian, Czech/Slovak, Hungarian). I have not yet listened to Dead Can Dance, it will have to be when Jim is not listening, judging from his reaction to Yes. While cooking? Andes Music also has a beat but it is somewhat variable and is not louder than the tune. Are there other folk dance musics that I might like besides Balkan, Scandinavian, and British Isles? I like unusual beats, such as 7/8, 11/8. What should I be listening to/for in Dead Can Dance? (How long were they together?).
CLANNAD IN CONCERT is so one of their best albums, is too is too is too. :) More to the point, it is the only pre-new-age Clannad album I found in the library's holdings. It's a short recording because it dates from about 1978, the LP era. There are hardly ever good notes on CDs any more. I may have an article on Maria Kalaniemi in one of my folk music magazines which I could clone for keesan. The library also had Kalaniemi's first American cd -- IHO, which you got, was her second. (Now I'll have to pull out my copy of IHO to look for the Bulgarian- sounding piece.) As to where she got her ideas: I'm pretty sure that Kalaniemi, like Varttina, the Hedningarna singers, and many of the current crop of Finnish performers, studied at the folk music school of the Sibelius Academy.
Oh, okay, you like it. I'll give you that one. Ken. But I never did like it much. But you know how much I don't like a lot of live recordings.
Re#97: Gospel is vocal pretty much by definition, AFAIK. I know there's plenty of instrumental blues out there, but I don't know enough about blues to point you in the right direction. I really have no idea about instrumental country: I haven't heard any, but I barely listen to any country at all.
Re #99: Oh, no! That's really too bad... I was looking forward to the next time they came around on tour, too! *sigh* Probably about the only non-"classical" group I've really enjoyed...
One could probably find some instrumental bluegrass recordings filed in the country section. But bluegrass is the only instrumental country which is coming into my mind.
mmmmm...lots of oldtimey stuff i have around here is instrumental...it ain't bluegrass, pa... i also have some pretty good instrumental stuff by bob wills and the texas playboys.
What genre would you call them? I like bluegrass, it is not too different
from the Irish stuff.
I listened to Dead Can Dance. It is a strange name for a group (do other
groups have a verb in their name) but quite appropriate. A very marked and
repetitive rhythm, and sepulchral (at at least very bass) tunes. The rhythm
seemed to repeat for four measures at a time, unlike new age music, which
repeats forever. How would you classify Dead Can Dance? What sorts of things
should I be listening for? The words are not intelligible enough to interfere
with my work (which involves thinking in two languages at once). What sort
of training did the group members have in music?
I would bet Maria learned something about Balkan folk music, at least
the rhythms, and it sounded a lot like Bulgarian folkdance. I will listen
again. The library will not let me take out any more CDs until I return most
of what I have, 18 was way over the limit. (I also got Bukhara Crossroads
of Asia, and some Corelli and Bach). Have to decide what to record before
they are all overdue. Maybe one piece from each of the recommended groups
for times that I feel like listening to something different, and probably most
or all of Maria and Bach.
Keesan, I dug into my music collection and found something you might like. It's a RealWorld CD of a group called Trisan, which consists of Joji Hirota (Japanese percussionist), Pol Brennan (Irish pianist, guitarist, flutist... from Clannad, originally), and Guo Yue (Chinese, plays bamboo flute) -- I got it out of the library originally, and fell in love with it -- all three musicians are classically trained in their own traditions, and they have written some neat songs that meld all three -- mostly instrumental, though there are a few vocal tracks. I ordered a copy from Schoolkids several years ago (it was put out in 1992, I think) and I can recommend it highly. Seems that no one else has heard of it, though.
San being the Japanese for something like 'honored sir'? In Japanese class I was Keesan-san. Tri for three? Thanks, will look for it after I get the number of CDs that I have out back down to under six. (I was going to record them first but the tape player is not working, suddenly, or it could be the receiver circuits, too much odd music?). Small world in music now.
-san is like "Mr.", or "person". It's pretty neutral. "-sama" usually translates to "lord", at least in old stuff (not sure about now). "-chan" is how you refer to your kids, and "-kun" is pretty intimate...
Ken, I listened to Maria again and identified the track that sounded Bulgarian. It is number 7, Sofias flykt. I did not read the list of tracks to identify it. Sofia is the capital of Bulgaria. The rest sounds Scandinavian. Interesting rhythms in teh Bulgarian one and I think also in a few of the others. 7/8, etc. The Inca music has some pieces with 5 measure repeated units. Hungarian music repeats 6 measures. Dvorak has some unusual combinations of rhythms. Most folk and classical W. European music is pretty predictable as far as beats/measure or measures/phrase: 2/4 3/4 and 4 measures/phrase or some multiple. Are there any folk traditions or other classical or other composers who play/write in 5/8, 13/8, 5 measures/phrase, etc? I have not analyzed the Armenian or Indian or Iranian music yet. Balkan music (Albanian, Macedonian, Bulgarian) has 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 13/8. Fun to dance to.
Bartok uses some folk songs (Hungarian, I presume, but I may be wrong) in 5/8 and 7/8 as melodies in a few pieces. From what I've heard about traditional Indian music, I think it tends to have irregular groups of 2 and 3 beats; things like 3/8 - 3/8 - 2/8 - 2/8, which adds up to 5/4 if you think of it as one big measure. On the other hand, most of the recordings of Indian music I've heard sounded like they were in straight 4/4 or 3/4, so I'm not so sure how common that sort of irregular rhythm is.
Go get "The Songs of India" by Ravi Shankar. He explains the different rhythm patterns. Very informative. Even more is reading his autobio.
I wonder whether the gypsy musicians, originally from India, helped spread the 5/4 type of rhythm to the Balkans and Hungary, where it is common.
Well, there hasn't been much activity in this item for a while and I'm not sure if anyone is still interested in discussing it, but if you like both folk music and classical music you might enjoy the Kronos Quartet CD 'Pieces of Africa.' It's a bunch of pieces by current African composers for string quartet, but is influenced quite a lot by traditional African music. I like it a lot. But then I like almost all of Kronos' CDs that I have heard, especially _Short Stories_ and _White Man Sleeps_. Just my thoughts on the matter...
Here are some suggestions for the classical music lover wanting to widen her tastes. In the jazz realm, try Kurt Elling, a marvelous vocalist. I would in particular recommend his third album 'At the Green Mill' or something very like that. He plays with rhythm in a neat manner and his voice is truly his instrument, as central as the content of his songs, both original and cover. Michael Hedges was definitely a guitarist who could appeal both intellectually and spiritually through his music. I'd recommend the albums "Taproot" and "Aerial Boundaries" as most likely to appeal. You could also try a group called Raphael with their two albums of "music to disappear in." This is probably classed as newage (rhymes with sewage), but of style it is head and shoulders above the pack, with an interesting translation of the "In Paradiso" from the Faure requiem into newage synthe-pop. I use this music frequently when doing massage; I love it a lot, it's also fine meditation music. The Jethrow Tull album with North Sea Oil on it is called Storm Watch, and it is a neat album, though Songs From the Wood is still my favorite Tull album. Finally, I would disagree with denigrating Yes's 90125 album for those looking for their classical influences. It is true the complexity of the music changed from earlier releases, but it is still rich, though perhaps further removed from classical sources, one can still hear them. And for rhythmic interest the song Changes has a neat intro, as does the song Leave It. I had several more, but 115 responses drove some of them out of my head. Oh wait, did anyone mention Ennya?
How could you forget the Moody Blues? Albums actually recorded with the London Philharmonic, etc...?
For that matter, Metallica recently released an album of hits with classical backing (the closest heavy metal might ever come to "muzak metal"). And ELP did Pictures at an Exhibition, or somesuch... Putting classical instruments in pop music seemed popular in early 80s "New Wave." The obvious example is ABC's Lexicon of Love, but others include Communards, Art of Noise, and Eurythmics, plus (later) Sundays and the genre that followed from that. Musak meets pop meets classical meets moog has St. Etienne as one of its finer examples... the music is hopelessly vapid and confusingly complex at once, one of my quirkier favorites.
Deep Purple did something akin to "Music for two unfriendly groups of instruments" with a classical orchestra.
resp:118 classical meets Moog.. reminds me of Wendy Carlos. Definitely a different instrumentation scheme. In that vein, I would think even Kraftwerk would be worthy of consideration, although I have only _The Mix_ for observation. Some music critics consider their form to be a bit more classical in structure than pop (i.e., folk), so I would make it a recommendation. My father-in-law is a classical enthusiast and loves "Switched on Bach," so I am going to see what he thinks of this German programming band.
St Etienne is more on the pop end, with those other influences in there. A friend of mine loaned me a very rare Weird Al/Wendy Carlos rendition of Peter and the Wolf, but it was fairly inaccessible to me... too weird.
ELP's version of "pictures at an exhibition, or somesuch" is definitely more on the side of "somesuch." They delete most of my favorite movements, add new (fairly dreadful) sections, etc. Given how faithful some of their classical arrangements are, I was amazed at how much they butchered this one.
You have several choices: