does anyone know where I can get some NIN on vinyl.... I'm desperate!!!82 responses total.
sorry....no clue.
Your favorite music store can't special order it for you??
Hmmmm, I am pretty sure that several of the music stores around here DID have NIN on vinyl...I'll check next time I'm in one...it's the smaller stores like the ones on our OSU campus, etc...
If you are nuts enough to try, you might also be able to roll your own. I don't know about supplies, but it used to (okay, several decades ago) be pretty easy to do. Les Paul actually built most his first recording lathe out of car parts. Be the most popular dude in your community! Custom vinyl! I have no idea where to start, except maybe Usenet.
the idea isn't to copy onto vinyl.... the idea is to find the 12" single for down in it, the limited edition release of pretty hate machine, and anything else that *nails* put out on vinyl....hmmm (sigh)
Oh, like a remix?
i would think its rather hard to find anything modern on vynil. Good luck, check your used cd stores, sometimes they might have them, but if its limit edition, well, bad luck and your screwed.. unless of course youy wait a good few years and then try
i got tool's undertow and rage evil empire on vinyl, they had lotsa stuff on vinyl there, i think they hapretty hate machine...
Vinyl did start a slow comeback a couple years ago.
I just glimpsed a headline last week -- in the WSJ, maybe? -- reporting that vinyl LP sales are trending up. It's probably still a miniscule part of the market.
yeah. there is a lot more hype about vinyl, or there has been in the last few years, not exactly sure why, but i really do think it has something to do with the whole crazy 70's revival thing.. oi.
Anybody want to buy a used turntable? I have a spare. :)
re # 12 How much??? I have vinal I would like to hear again.
I finally convinced Leslie to let me drag my old ugly turntable stand out of the basement!! Yay!! Now I can walk around the living room while LPs are playing without bouncing the stylus.
i was very upset when my mom donated my turntable to the salvation army one day while i was at school... (this was hm, gotta be a few years ago now.... ie.... uhm, maybe 4) that wasn't a very nice thing to do... but i can live w/o one.. i've lived w/o a tape player since mine broke abt. 2 years ago.
re 8 where?
scott--yeah, how much for the turntable? I'll buy it if I can afford it..
Sold to me already... Sorry dude.
Interesting. I have always wondered about the fascination with vinyl. I read an article that said that vinyl often had +dB bias at certain treble frequencies, as compared to tape and CD, so it often sounded *brighter*. This puzzles me when I see that the largest demand in vinyl is for recordings by industrial and garage groups. Any further insight?
Well vinyl has a greater dynamic range like 100+ db while CDs clock in at 90 some db dynamic range. Then there is the "warm sound" of vinyl which I think is a real phenomenae. The causality of the warm sound is uncertain, but it could be distortion heard as a posative thing, or it could be that analog recording processes respresent sound more accuratley than digital recording processes (this was certainly true for early digital recordings). Finally as for garage and industrial these recording are often on indie labels, and thus they are only available as vinyl recordings. Or as they say at NVA "you'll pry my vinyl from my cold dead fingers. <set pro-vinyl rant=off>
A *greater* dynamic range? I don't know about that..sub-bass frequencies
weren't really available in recordings (as far as I can remember) when it was
limited to vinyl. I'd need to have some sort of proof of that. I read the
specs for one of the stereos in my house, and the sound parameters (on output)
for the phonograph was described as being on an RIAA curve, as opposed to a
frequency range for the CD and auxilary/video outputs. (Now-- is there anyone
out there who is a sound engineer that can explain this?) At the very least,
I would say that vinyl does not have a superior capacity to reproduce
extremely high and extremely low frequencies cleanly.
I'm not sure now if vinyl recordings are brighter or warmer, but what
the _Stereo Review_ article said was that certain frequencies at mid- to
treble range were boosted by a couple of +db. It is definitely distortion--
accuracy has nothing to do with it. The vinyl recording *will not* sound like
it was originally hear din the studio. Most recordings that have been
rereleased as CDs have the following statement:
"The music on this Compact Disc was originally recorded on analog equipment.
We have attempted to preserve, as closely as possible, the sound of the
original recording. Because of its high resolution, however, the Compact Disc
can reveal limitations of the source tape."
Let me also explain the recording code on most CDs where A= analog, D=
digital.
The first letter is the source tape. An A or a D will indicate whether it
was recorded digitally, or on analog tape.
The second is the mastering process (transcription).
The third, of course, is the copying process.
As to the "accuracy" of digital vs. analog, it's more about acoustical
properties of the sounds reproduced. Digital processes tend to refine
frequencies and reduce distortion. However, some sounds are characteristic
for their distortion. This is whybrass, string, and saxophone sounds don't
sound quite as true to life on digital synthesizers, as compared to analog
ones. However, analog synths have a tendency to hum. To circumvent this,
engineers either remastered analog recordings especially for CD, or designed
CD players with digital/analog (D/A) converters, or filters. However, this
still resulted in a loss of sound, so most newer CD players have a
digital/analog oscillator (instead of converting analog to digital, the player
moves between the two, at a speed that sounds blended to the human ear).
Oversampling technologies are also used in players.
The RIAA curve is EQ applied to the recording on vinyl to reduce bass to something that won't make huge wide grooves. The phono preamp on your stereo reverses the effect. Some vinyl freaks cite the lack of an explicit low-pass filter as proof that records must have better high frequency range than digital. The digital process requires a filter to limit (a hard limit) frequencies more than 1/2 the sample rate, which is about 21kHz for CD. Vinyl has no such filter, but precious little response at that frequency range anyway.
I have a record that was cut from 35mm film, and it sounds just like a CD in response. What I mean is that the audio was not recorded on tape, rather 35mm film, and somehow that makes the recording more brilliant, and a lot clearer than the rest of my records (vinyl). The recording is Doc Severnson's greatest hits. It did translate to audiotape very well, and is almost CD quality sound. You can hear the difference when you play a ordinary record of the same genre, such as Herb Alpert's "Rise". The label that records from film is Command Records. There is also TelArc Recording, who uses bizarre recording techniques when recording a CD, but they do come out sounding a lot better than some of my other CD's do.
Ken's empirical observations about digital vs. analog: 1) LPs, under optimal conditions, can sound more pleasing than CD on their outer grooves. Usually the sound quality of the LP has degraded badly by the inner grooves. 2) Avoid classical CDs recorded digitally before about 1987-1988. 3) There is a certain kind of bad sound on some CDs which, if I'm listening through headphones, makes me want to throw the headphones across the room. The only new release where I have heard this in the last five years is Emmylou Harris' WRECKING BALL. 4) Many of my friends hated cleaning LPs and their stylii, and they were eager to flee the LP. 5) Loaning and borrowing CDs is as much fun as loaning and borrowing LPs was back in junior high, back before we became paranoid about LP care. 6) I used to lose sleep worrying over LP wear. 7) These days, the hardest part of playing LPs is cleaning the piles of CDs off the turntable.
Oh, so true on 7). The turntable cover seems to be the
place to put the CD cases when the CD is in the CD changer.
Worst parts of LPs: Life lived in 18-22 minute segments.
That and the "Narp" made when the tone arm lifted from the disk;
particularly by an automatic.
Ever listen to a good, fresh pressing of Ann Murray's
"Snowbird" on vinyl? You might not "hear" the third overtone
of the triangle, but it seems to be perceived--that tone up there
in the 36k-44k range.
Somehow, my 45 of The Beatles "Please, Please Me" on the
original Vee Jay label seems so much more sonicly enjoyable than
the same track from a CD.
I am quite thankful to the CD boon in makeing old albums
available new again, thanks to it being collected for this new
medium. Where else would be be able to find "There Are Fairies
At The Bottom Of My Garden" by Beatrice Lilley but on a CD collection?
Two more issues in the CD/vinyl debate. Cover art: I am a fanatic of good cover art. Ever noticed how much better an LP of Axis: Bold as Love or Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band looks than the equivalent CD? Bigger art, and none of them damn jewel boxes. "Feel": Somehow, listening to The Beatles or other 'oldies' on CD just seems like blasphemy. I was introduced to them on vinyl, and for me taking good care of the records, dropping the stylus in the right place, etcetera, are just as much a part of the 'experience' as the music is.
What about innovative CD packaging? I have CD's that look great, and would not work as vinyl.
True, true. My complaint is not really with CD packaging in general, but with the jewel boxes that have become almost universal.
I like jewel boxes, since they stack easy, they keep the disc dust free, but the downside is when you drop them on the floor, they can break easily.
Seems kind of dumb that the protective case is so delicate.
Both Schoolkids Records and Border's Books & Music sell empty CD jewel cases for 50 cents to a dollar apiece.
I think Jim and Ken made strong cases and presentations. Ken made a point that I'd like to add to. If it is true that LPs have a preferred sound over CDs on their outer grooves, then one must also consider that LPs have a shorter shelf life. A CD may have minor scratches and still sound fine. However, you'll hear this in an LP. I realize that there are high-tech phonograph arms, stylus heads, and better stylii; but in general, it is cheaper and easier to get good sound quality from a CD. The entire idea behind CDs was that if a laser replaced the stylii, it could read the recorded sound more precisely (and on tighter grooves-- thus making the disc smaller), there would be no parts to wear out (well, you don't have to replace a laser, but you do eventually have to replace a stylus), and you would have a disc that would be easier to take care of. Concerning the LP cover art, I realize that the art is much smaller on a CD. But you generally get more photos, artwork, and sometimes lyrics in CD liner notes than you do LPs. I bought the CD release of Depeche Mode's 1982 album _A Broken Frame_ and got far more than I would have if I ever managed to get the LP (I found it at a student radio station). tpyran also made a good point that LPs have short playing time on each side. I would also add that they have a short playing time overall (33 1/3 compared to CD). If the Super CD is ever introduced to audio recording, the gap will be even bigger. You also can't play an LP in a car stereo-- it's just not feasible (of course). The advantages of CD in car audio apply to home stereo as well. CDs have a higher output than LPs or tapes, so the sound is generally supported better, especially at low volume levels. So CDs have great sound potential even on an amp with a low wattage rating. Of course, a high-powered amp will bring out the sound quality even better of any medium. So, in short, while LPs may have higher sonic ranges, and are big enough to have more visible cover art, they are not consistent in sound quality thoughout its length, the output is low, and they are more subject to wear. CDs generally produce cleaner sound, especially at sub-bass frequencies, feature more extensive liner notes with more content than a fold-out LP jacket, their output is high, their recording length is longer, and they are usually easier to take care of. Speaking of jewel boxes, there are a couple of alternatives. There is the Digipak CD package, invented by AGI Inc., which is generally used with CD singles (or was, for a time, anyway). The UK and Europe use a much slimmer jewel box than our standard for CD singles. It's really nice and I find it's not so easy to drop it.
In order for more information to be packed into a cd case, the printing has been reduced quite a bit. As I get older, I sometimes wish my magnifying glass were nearby. The printing is getting really tiny!
I've seen those thin jewel boxes, both for singles and occasionally for full length albums. But they still don't solve the main problem, which is that they break, crack, etcetera, very easily. Just recently a favorite CD of mine had two tracks rendered unplayable when I dropped it in the closed jewel box, which broke and scratched the disk. Not fun.
That surprises me; usually my experience, with CDs shipped from Europe, is that the CD box gives its life protecting the disk.
Well, this was a domestic jewel box. I've never bashed any of the skinny ones too hard.
The skinny ones are a bloody inconvenience, if you ask me. I prefer the specialized cases you occasionally get with some CDs, such as Vitalogy and No Code by Pearl Jam (the rest of the liners got kind of annoying, but the packaging was convenient).
The box for No Code is the same style as Vitalogy's, or different?
It's not really a book, but it's not Jewl.
Oh...arr...
and a lot of cd singles have different casing than the skinny jewel cases, i have quite a few neet ones:)
Yep-- a lot of companies are using those funky slide-out cases, you know what I mean?
yeah, i have some of those, and some cool fold up ones too
I just ran across a really funny 2-cd case. It has the middle piece that holds a cd on it's front and it's back, just like the normal one. But unlike the normal one, that piece is attatched to the right edge of the back, instead of the middle hinge. So, it folds out to the right, rather than just being like a page in a book
I think I know what kind you're talking about, Dan.
Wow...I didn't think that was going to make sense to anyone :)
Is orinoco describing the "slimline" 2-CD case which is just as thick as a normal single-CD case? I've found them becoming quite common, especially in budget classical packages.
Right, but there are two kinds of slimline cases. The one I've seen usually opens like a book - front cover, CD holder, and back cover are all attatched to one hinge on the left. This new one folds out instead, with the CD holder attatched to the _right_ of the back cover.
Wasn't the rerelease of the Star Wars soundtrack in that kind? Or maybe it was book-like, I'm not sure.
look online! telnet://cdnow.com would probally have it. they carry all sorts of stuff besides just cd's. i got a NiN wall clock from them! if that doesn't say diverse.. well.. hmm.. yeah! i've got a bunch of NiN bootlegs on tape for trading if anyone is interested. well.. not a BUNCH but some good ones. demos and remixes, welcome to the hate machine, purest feelings, cleveland '88, etc.. also have manson's selena's true killers, demos and remixes, and other stuff. bis balt!
Well, it finally happened. In party, some young whippersnapper asked me: "What's an LP?"
A question whose time has come, I suppose. It's been what, about ten years since the CD medium took over and record companies pretty much stopped manufacturing vinyl recordings?
Shoot me now.
(ugh. I admit that I rarely buy LPs these days, but I *do* still buy vinyl, much more often than cassettes.)
I occasionally buy some used vinyl, but I'd rather have CDs in most cases. Yes, I still have about 15 inches of vinyl on my shelf from the pre-CD days. I won't be throwing that away anytime soon.
I have about 15 inches of vinyl in the used vinyl to be reviewed pile now.
Sheesh, I have about 6 feet of vinyl, and I wish I listened to it more often but my current turntable is inconvenient and has a noise problem. A new TT is on my must get list.
6 feet long, or shelves up to the six foot mark? Yes, I used
to have a vinyl monkey on my back.
Check out Kiwanis on Saturday morning for their selection of
Truntables. Also Acutronics onState deals with working, older
equipment also.
Consider the fate of the consumer reel-to-reel. As cassettes
became the media for music on tape in the 70's, the market for
lower priced reel-to-reels dropped out. Then only higher priced,
higher quality r-t-rs remained on the market. Same has happened
with turntables--no more cheap Gerards around. Find a good working
Dual (used) or a good new one if you want to still retreive your
music from LPs.
6 feet linear, sorry. I'm probably going to buy a higher-end model to do some serious transcription work.
Ha, 6 feet, I got that just in comedy records.
Some stuff, though, is still only out there on Vinyl.
Heh, I just added about two feet last night.
So how long will it take you to work through two feet of LPs? (Argh, I still have several hundred LPs which I bought in the 1980s which never got played, and some day I should really clean them out.)
A damn long time, but now I have a pretty good classical selection, something I lacked before.
Whenever I go to flea markets or the like, I always find myself coming out with piles of $0.50, $1 and $2 LP's. Its usually music that I haven't been able to find on cassette or CD. What's funny is that I don't have a turntable and nobody I know has one either. I'm going to have to go ahead and buy one eventually, I guess. I have about 70 LP's I've never listened to. By the way, just in case you're curious, the first one I'm going to listen to also happens to be an album I've never heard at all, Joan Baez's self titled debut album. I'm really excited!
I have a turntable. Not the best, but I have one. And even one that plays 78s.
i have a NIN cd, Sex, Pain, and Rock and Roll, that my uncle gave me. it is a live recording, and it came with a small catalog in the insert, with a list of other cds that Razor Blade Records has. However, ther is no contact info for them, so i cant order any more cds. Does anyone else know of any info about Razor Blade?
I don't know, but have you asked local music retailers? Since they do special orders, they'd likely have some kind of info.
A web search indicates that Razor Blade Records is a bootleg label. (I should have picked that up from your description of the NIN cd as "live.") This is why they don't have any contact information. Most record stores are not going to be able to help you order any of these discs, and any that might are probably breaking the law and would not appreciate any online publicity. Welcome to the grey market!
Here's an item from a Gannett wire service story about people who are clinging to turntables and 8-tracks. A laser turntable is now for sale: see the we page at http://www.elpj.com. All you need is $13,000. The table is called the ELP. This is not new technology -- a laser table came to market very briefly in the late 1980s, which was poor timing because most of the market was rushing to CDs at that time.
Last I was at the Music School library at the U of M, they had a whole bunch of laser turntables.
How quickly can it 'capture" a side of an LP? It better have digital outputs in addition to audio.
(why should it have digital outputs?)
No, on their web page they proudly proclaim that their product has no digital signal handling stuff.
There's actually a very recent DJ-oriented turntable with digital outputs.
Oh, wait...a turntable that uses a laser to _read_ the record?
Yes..
Dan: what sort of "laser turntables" were you describing in resp:71?
Okay. I've seen ones that look to be laser-balanced. There's a pattern printed on the rim of the turntable, and a laser which reads that pattern and adjusts the speed and tilt of the turntable accordingly.
Never seen those. Sorry I wasn't more detailed in my original response. The appeal of a turntable which uses a laser in place of the phono stylus is that record wear is no longer a worry.
Nice.
I'd be really impressed if it played 78's. hmm..then again I see no reason it shouldn't if it can automatically adjust the speed...
You have several choices: