Grex Music2 Conference

Item 104: Musical Instruments and the Sounds They Make

Entered by mcnally on Tue Dec 2 07:41:14 1997:

What instrument sounds do you like?  Which don't you like?
31 responses total.

#1 of 31 by mcnally on Tue Dec 2 07:48:41 1997:

  Despite the eternal jokes about the accordion and bagpipes I
  find both of those instruments quite listenable compared to my
  musical nemesis -- the saxophone <shiver>.  I just can't stand
  the sound of a saxophone -- for some reason it really bugs me
  the way many people claim to be bugged by bagpipes.  I guess I
  don't much care for the clarinet, either (a response in item 1
  from a clarinet player reminded me that I've been meaning to
  enter this item.)

  I can understand, I guess, what it is that people don't like about,
  say, bagpipes, because I find in general that I don't usually like
  the sounds made by reeded instruments.  I tend to like the sound of
  stringed instruments (especially the cello, bass, acoustic guitar,
  and piano in that order.)  I also like the lower-pitched members of
  the flute and recorder families though I could do without the piccolo
  and the tin whistle.



#2 of 31 by rcurl on Tue Dec 2 19:58:22 1997:

Is it your politics that make you not like the saxophone?  8^}

If there is an instrument whose sound I "can't stand", it would be
fingernails on a chalkboard.  B=P

You must have a problem with higher harmonics, which reed instruments
are rich in and stringed instruments are poorer in. That should tell
us something about your nervous system - I bet *you* don't like fingernails
on chalkboards.


#3 of 31 by mcnally on Tue Dec 2 22:14:36 1997:

  I definitely don't like chalk on a blackboard, but then who does?

  I don't know, do other people also strongly dislike the sound of
  particularl instruments (not necessarily the same ones..) or am I
  unusual in that respect?


#4 of 31 by orinoco on Wed Dec 3 00:31:03 1997:

I think any instrument works in some context.  For instance, I find the flute
to be irritating in bebop-type jazz, but in classical or calypso it works just
fine.  Meanwhile, the soprano sax works great in bebop and badly in calypso.


#5 of 31 by agent86 on Wed Dec 3 00:53:47 1997:

Heh. The flute always puts me to sleep. Which isn't very good as that is one
of the instruments I play ;) 
About that "higher harmonics" thing: that could well be true. The airline
induustry did a study a while back to determine what it was about jet engines
that people didn't like the sound of, and their psychologists determined it
was the high freq harmonics that made people envision nails screeching down
chalkboards...
I am not to fond of the Sax either (at least most of the time I'm not), but
I thing this is because of the connotations that the sax has in my mind now
(ie. its always used as the instrument of choice in cheesy movies/ads/shows)
and not because of the instrument itself...


#6 of 31 by omni on Wed Dec 3 05:46:53 1997:

  I love the golden tone of a well played trumpet, flugelhorn, and cornet,
I also love the reeds, especially the clarinet, the oboe and the english horn.

  Bagpipes, when playing something melodious, are wonderful, however they can
easily annoy, and make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I also love
a well played electric guitar in the hands of a person like Jimi Hendrix or
better yet, Stevie Ray Vaughan


#7 of 31 by robh on Wed Dec 3 12:46:12 1997:

<robh wonders what mcnally would make of Kenny G playing a single
note on his sax for 45 minutes straight  >8)  >


#8 of 31 by mcnally on Wed Dec 3 16:33:48 1997:

  At some point while he was concentrating on his "circular breathing"
  he'd realize that he was in the process of swallowing a tenor sax..


#9 of 31 by anderyn on Wed Dec 3 17:06:52 1997:

Me, I love the pipes. They are the BEST. Second best are fiddles.
Third best , probably guitar/piano/accordion. The bombarde (a Breton
instrument that makes a very distinctive droning sound) is another
personal favorite. 

I also tend not to like saxophone, trumpet, or that brass side
of the band. Most stringed instruments are cool, and I really
adore organs and hammered dulcimer, but I would have to say that
this is probably why I like folk music so much -- they normally use
the instruments that resonate best with my liking for certain sounds.


#10 of 31 by teflon on Wed Dec 3 20:11:36 1997:

Are we excluding the human voice here?  If so, I'd have to say that a well
played fiddle is one of my favorites, that and steel drums...


#11 of 31 by orinoco on Thu Dec 4 02:41:30 1997:

Well, I actually like to listen to the sound of a single sustained note.  Try
it sometime with a well-tuned piano - hold the sustain pedal down, hit a
single note, and listen to the vibrations die away.  It's fascinating how much
detail there is in a single note that nobody hears.


#12 of 31 by void on Thu Dec 4 05:59:47 1997:

   piccolos get a bit too shrill for my comfort sometimes, but other
than that i can't really think of an instrument whose sound i dislike.


#13 of 31 by goose on Thu Dec 4 17:19:14 1997:

I like the flute in a jazz context.  I find no use, whatsoever, for the
soprano sax.  Even good players can't make me like it, and I have tried to
like it.  Wooden flutes in jazz, ala Roland Kirk, are even better.

I love the electric guitar.  Period.


#14 of 31 by lumen on Fri Dec 5 02:41:00 1997:

Edwin E. Gordon, a string bassist, developed a timbre test to determine
students' affinity for particular instruments.  The concept is simple. 
Students will listen to a series of timbres and frequencies and choose which
combination they like best.  Their selections will often match them to the
instrument they prefer.

I used to be more enchanted with the sound of the piano than I am now. 
I, too, began to develop a taste for instrumental applications-- piano often
sounded best with Romantic and Impressionist compositions with big, rich
chords.  There is a Romantic style that is very, very simple, but I can't
remember the name of the composer who invented it.  If somehow I could sing
it, someone would recognize the style.

Right now, I love my classical guitar.  I love the sound of classical and
flamenco styles for guitar.  I love it because guitar has such a great
potential to sound lovely even with simple compositions, often much more so
than the piano.  (Perhaps it is the charm of learning a new instrument; the
guitar is my fifth.)

I love most all instruments, but I especially love synthesizers because the
sounds are newer, more flexible in their parameters, and more varied. 
Percussion applications were never the same once electronic music began to
grow and develop.

It is not so much individual instruments that bother me; it is how they are
used.  There is a big percentage of orchestral music that would put me to
sleep after a while (I'm conditioned to splashier music and I can only take
dominance of violins in the melody for so long).  I hate cheesy MIDI
soundtracks for cartoons-- in general, anyways.

In short, I'm a demanding listener, performer, and educator.  I don't like
to listen to, play, or teach music that is overwhelmingly ordinary.  And yes,
I could say I have my preferences to where and how an instrument or voice is
used.


#15 of 31 by tpryan on Fri Dec 5 23:47:29 1997:

        One of the sounds I dislike is guitar neck noise.  Such as the
slide for making bar chords zipping across the steel string.  Doesn't
work for me too often.  I would just wish that the guitar was not
miked to pick up that sound, or the performer would have more pride
inthe sound made from the box instead of the neck & fret board.


#16 of 31 by lumen on Sun Dec 7 00:33:11 1997:

There are times that a slide sound is appropriate.  But as I understand it,
all of that is just sloppy playing.  I haven't been playing long at all, but
I do know that good technique involves picking up the fingers slightly from
chord to chord.

Slide technique is pretty common in rhythm guitar, and I'm not sure what those
guitarists do to keep the strings from squeaking too much.  I do know blues
guitarists use a metal finger guard.

I agree-- simply sliding over the neck and frets isn't very toneful.  But
there must be a creative way to work it into amp distortion and the like--
it would probably be better if it wasn't abused so much..


#17 of 31 by scott on Sun Dec 7 14:38:57 1997:

I find my perception of instruments is shaded more by what musicians do with
the instrument than the actual sounds.  For instance, I like reed organ better
than saxophone, since I'm sick of Kenny G and all his slick-sounding
contemporaries, but I *love* stuff I've heard Tom Waits play on old reed pump
organs.


#18 of 31 by orinoco on Sun Dec 7 14:44:58 1997:

There are times when string sounds aren't really appropriate, especially in
a very 'rich', heavily produced song where they just sound wrong.  But in a
sparser, acoustic setting I actually like them a lot.


#19 of 31 by lumen on Mon Dec 8 06:36:40 1997:

Much to think about.  Reminds me of the time I was studying MIDI and happened
to stumble on the trance form.  I used a "clock" sound and whatever sounded
good with it in a quick arrangement of DM's "Strangelove" (just a segment).
I used a digital reverb/flanging machine-- chose the looping flange.

It was cool-- kinda sounded like it was underwater.. I was unhappy I didn't
figure out how to put bubble and submarine sounds to it.  My teacher asked
me what was going through my head.  I wasn't on good terms with him in my
theory class and I mistrusted him, so I wouldn't tell him ;>


#20 of 31 by orinoco on Mon Dec 8 22:31:45 1997:

Hmm...do you have a tape of that still or something?  It sounds interesting...


#21 of 31 by lumen on Tue Dec 9 01:34:41 1997:

Dammit, I don't!  That fucking teacher lost it.. I was foolish enough not to
ask for it immediately after the project was done.  I asked a little bit
later, and he'd misplaced it.  It had a couple of my other MIDI projects,
including an audio project called "Dragon Vader."  (I was fooling around with
a friend-- we were doing overdubs to DM tunes.  We came to "I Want You Now"
from _Music For The Masses_ and he started breathing heavy into the
microphone.  He said, "You are my son, Luke," and I yelled in the background,
"No, Father-- never!"  Since his breathing sounded like dragonfire, I dubbed
it again, editing it so that there was a 'blast' immediately after my
outburst-- seeming as though I'd been roasted :> )


#22 of 31 by orinoco on Tue Dec 9 22:03:47 1997:

<grin>


#23 of 31 by lumen on Tue Dec 9 23:57:43 1997:

Yes, I definitely need to get into MIDI again sometime in the future.


#24 of 31 by font on Wed Dec 10 03:51:50 1997:

Well, in keeping with the topic, I must say that the sound depends on the
context.  For example, I have heard otherwise drecky and cheezy MIDI tones
sound just great in the right combinations (I am a clasically trained
musician with perfect pitch.  I am *extremely* picky about music) but
admitedly they are very hard to find.  I guess if I am watching an old cheezy
horror flick, I can kind of guiltily enjoy it.  People have noted that in the
accordions conference I have bashed the sound of the accordion.  Correction,
I bash the sound of an ill played accordion.  I heard the most hauntingly
beautiful sounds ever as an accordion in a big field.  (this was the same day
that some one else, also a master, played bagpipes in the field.  this was
a tie for the most haunting sounds ever) There was even mist and woods so it
was as if little faries were playing.  (font has an overgrown imagination)
As for the worst sounds ever, I would have to say that my most unfavorite
instrumnent ever is the BGees and ABBA.  ;-)
I like the English horn and the Viola de Amore. (in the the same family as
it's more well known cousin , the Viola de Gamba)  It has 2 sets of strings,
so you hear the overtones as well as the vibrating ones above.  I also like
the Bassoon and Electric Guitar, Mandolin and Cello.  


#25 of 31 by lumen on Wed Dec 10 19:04:18 1997:

Well said, font.  Ummm... the Bee Gees and ABBA are musical groups, not
instruments, however.  Yes, I'd say context is a huge part of music-- one that
I've found a LOT of college and university professors miss or don't
emphasize-- at least, the ones I've had.

Explain a little more what the Viola de Amore is?  If it has two sets of
strings compared to the Viola de Gamba, is it analogous to the 12-string
guitar, compared to the common 6-string guitar?  In other words, are the extra
set of strings on the Amore an octave below their counterparts?


#26 of 31 by orinoco on Wed Dec 10 22:43:38 1997:

I think the idea is that there are sympathetic strings running under the
fingerboard, similar to the ones on a sitar.  Each sympathetic string is
paired with one of the normal string, and when the normal string above it is
played the sympathetic string vibrates.
I didn't know anyone was still making them, though.
(Would that be _electric_ mandolin and _electric_ cello, font?)


#27 of 31 by lumen on Fri Dec 12 07:57:09 1997:

Okay-- that makes sense, I think.  No, I would doubt that they are still made.
The best string players have very old instruments anyway-- Stradavariuses
(sp?) from the 18th century and such.  The wood gets better-sounding the more
it ages :)


#28 of 31 by mziemba on Sun May 24 13:58:48 1998:

The idea of matching people up with instruments based on their preference for
a range of tones sounds like an excellent one.  Is there additional attention
payed to physical attributes, like finger size and length, or is that not as
big a concern?


#29 of 31 by mziemba on Sun May 24 14:07:22 1998:

I don't always mind incidental instrument sounds associated with the
production of music.  For instance, Prince has a beautiful song called
"Sometimes it Snows in April", which consists only of voice, minor piano
accompaniment, and acoustic guitar.  The movement across the fingerboard
causes a distinct stretching sound which completely contributes to the sadness
of the song.


#30 of 31 by mziemba on Sun May 24 14:51:31 1998:

I think I probably liked stringed instrumets, the most.  In particular, the
guitar, the lute, the violin, the cello, the mandolin, the ehr-hu, the oud,
the sitar, the piano, the harpsichord, the dulcimer, the banjo, and the kora.
 
I like aerophones a great deal as well, primarily oboes, bassoons,
clarinets, accordions, bagpipes, saxophones, trumpets, and french horns. 
I probably lean towards reed aerophones. 

I like idiophones a lot, too -- usually earthier sounding ones like the
types of xylophones found in Indonesian gamelan, deeper gongs, and mbiras.

Of the membranophones, again, I lean towards earthier ones like the
djembe, among others. 

I'm not sure that there's an instrument I don't like, but I suppose I'm
not particularly fond of extremely sharp, high-pitched ones, like certain
flutes.
 


#31 of 31 by lumen on Mon May 25 23:46:48 1998:

Ummm, I don't think it's necessarily as big of a concern, no.  For example,
some people, especially Andres Segovia, have hands very, very suited to play
the classical guitar, and yet you have many people learning to play it anyway.
It helps, yes, to fit the instrument to a person physically, but really, some
sort of compromise of what they want to play and what the ensemble needs to
have will be first priorities.


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