This is a question that came up at my school a while ago, and was never answered... Lets face it folk, "Alternative" music has hit the mainstream. Frankly, calling it "Alternative" is now wildly inaccurate. So what should it be renamed as? Or, if you want an even bigger mind-bender, what should we rename "Classical" music, since much of it certainly isn't classic, or from the "Classical" period.31 responses total.
"Alternative" now seems to basically mean non-geezer rock. (Geezer rock, of course, would be Fleetwood Mac, Jimmy Page, Genesis, old folks like that.)
As with all musical styles, i have decided that "alternative" refers to the musical style more than anything else... which leads to another question: how do establish what a certain style sounds like? I begin to think the only difference between the CHili Peppers and Prokofiev (both of which make me get up and jump) is the instrumentation and lack of vocals in the latter. Why are Prokofiev and Mozart both be called classical, when they sound so incredibly different? Instrumentation seems to be the big key here. Perhaps it could be argued that it is the sequential nature of classical music that makes it be termed "classical" (ie. Classical is non-repetitive to a large degree, though it still has an underlying theme. Once again the Russian composers come into play, though, as they *were* actually fairly repetitive). If instrumentation is the key, what prevents "symphonic Led Zeppelin" or "symphonic queen" or "symphonic beatles" where the London SO has performed the pop groups pieces as a medley, from being classical? Anyways, don't flam the hell outa me yet. I am a 16 year old DC punk type of guy (who loves Minor Threat) so gimme some credit for actually listening to classical, huh? ;) <There, I tried to use my age to get a sympathy vote>
I am nit-picky, so I usually when I refer to "classical" music, I refer to Western European music of the Classical Era. If it's baroque, Romantic, or Impressionist, I label it as such. I had a more interesting discussion with an ex of me 5 years ago about her opinion of why New Age should be relabeled.
To the general public Baroque, Romantic, Impressionist, etc. would be called "Classical" It stinks, but it's true. "Alternative" is a marketing label. It used to be called "College Rock" but then you limit your demographic. "Alternative" is pushed to the 18-34 crowd, America's favourite demographic.
Yes, I'm acutely aware of this, Chris, and as a future music educator, I wish it would change because I'm sure people are confused when I say I'm not fond of Classical music (impossible to capitalize it when I'm speaking, you know). Sure it stinks. But most of the general public is very poorly educated in music. Just like any other subject, just because you may not be talented in that area or completely interested in all facets of it, doesn't mean you shouldn't be informed. The music educator cringes to hear someone say, "I may not know much about music, but I know what I like?" The 18-34 crowd is America's favorite demographic because this age group has the most disposable income, as a whole, has the largest variety of tastes, which tastes fluctuate frequently and often, and spends a large amount of money on music anyway.
I thought the music was called "alternative" back when it vaguely was alternative, back in the OP magazine days.
<a-hem> don't let me interupt your conversation here, but I was really just trying to have some fun with this item...
RE #5 You're right. The 18-34 age group has the most disposable income, and they sure dispose quite a bit of it. ;-}
Hey, would that I had the honour of wasting that sort of money :) Yeah, I sometimes have difficulty explaining that I don't like Classical music, but I can listen to Bach's organ music or Beethoven's string quartets forever. But I suppose if Tori Amos and 311 can be in the same section of a music catalogue, so can Bach and Mozart.
Holy Market Demographic, Batman! I am the general public now, huh? That stinks. I will have to attend an art school or something to give myself some modicum of class. <Andrew is embarassed beyond belief. How declasse!>
Not to drift - but for my education - what defines "rock" music? (Someone once told me what defines "jazz", but I forget now - some kind of chord progression?)
Rock music is like pornography - difficult to define, but you know it when you see it. :) I think rock music is defined by particular styles of guitar and drumming, and perhaps a guitarist or drummer could elaborate further. There exist certain 'Altenative' acts that don't fall under that umbrella - Tori Amos, to use my earlier example - and those that do - i.e. 311.
I'm hoping there is an absolute definition so one can read the music and say it is "rock", or it is not. It must involve either rhythms or harmonic progressions, mustn't it?
Well, not necessarily. There's a big band arrangement of Enter Sandman, for instance, that keeps the same rhythms and the same notes, but I wouldn't call it rock.
I suppose what is really beginning to define what music falls into what category IS radio, TV and the people selling music. "Classical" music stations will play from Bach to Saent-saints (spelling?) to flute duets. In fact, the common thread in all broadcast-mediums musical groupings is nothing more than instrumentation.
RE#14 -- There is a cello quartet arangement of it too! It's really funny, but good as well.
Re #14 and #16. Any tune can be performed in many different "styles". You could probably do it as rap, ragtime, or an oratorio. But each is a well defined musical idiom My question is then, when anything is played as *rock*, what makes it so?
I suppose a combination of relatively simple chords - i.e. none of the 7th, 9th, 11th chords that you get in jazz and the like - and the style of drumming.
Hrmph... If you can arrange rock pieces classically, why don;t we hear classical pieces done as rock?
<tpryan gets out the rules for "You can sing anything you want to the 'Alice's Restaurant' game">.
Well, there have been Baroque-ish things put into rock form before, Procol Harum and the California Guitar Trio being the two that come to mind. I think there are a decent number of stormy Romantic pieces that would work out quite well in heavy metal arrangements, and some light Classical pieces I could see as pop. And there's Vanessa-Mae's vaguely pop-ish version of the Tocatta & Fugue in D minor. (Actually, just the Tocatta end of it...I don't think she does the Fugue, but it's been ages since I've listened) I've been wondering for quite a while how Bach would work out as techno...someday when I have too much time on my hands I'll have to give that a try.
Emerson Lake & Palmer, "Pictures At An Exhibition" Ray Manzarek, "Carmina Burna" (which is so funny that it makes me fall over) Apollo 100, Beethoven's "Ode to Joy"
ELP's "Fanfare for the Common Man" (a Copeland piece) The Who's "Hall of the Mountain King" (???) Savatage's "Hall of the Mountain King" (again ???) That God-awful "A Fifth of Bethoven" disco song. Pete Townshend has some stuff on a solo LP that are experimantations with Fugues in a rock context (If I recall the record correctly)
Oh, how can I forget ELP? I think they also did a version of the Copland piece which also got turned into the 'beef - it's what's for dinner' ad. It's fairly well done, but I can't listen to it without cracking up because it reminds me of the commercial so much.
OK, thanks.
Dammit, I like "A Fifth of Beethoven!" Pppphhhhhttt! I refuse to let any sort of classical purist or disco hater to get to me! (Of course, I freely admit there is plenty of bad disco and club/dance music out there..I am choosy.) As to "what is rock?" well, we discussed that in the "The day the conference died" item, referring to Don McLean's most popular song "The Day The Music Died." Rock has received so many musical grafts it's hard to tell what it is anymore. It evolved from 'race music,' which was softened to rhythm and blues-- especially songs cleaned up for the clean-cut white teenage audience. The term 'rock 'n roll' was coined by a radio DJ to get the music played on the air-- he worked in a station that was still racist at the time (well, rock 'n roll did face a lot of racism.) There's a lovely poster in the Music Education room at the music library at my school that shows the evolution of modern music on a tree. Spirituals, folk, country-western, jazz, etc.. it's all there up to at least the 70's or so. Rock has received grafts from folk and country-western music to make protest music in the 60's, jazz to make fusion, etc. The list is too impossibly long for me to try to draw out here-- I'm not a modern music historian, and I just don't have enough notes in front of me. don't even get me started about modern electronic music and John Cage.. or connections to techno, for that matter..
You are "defining" rock in terms of other - undefined - musical forms. If you can tell "rock" if you hear it, you can describe what would be written in the score - rhythms, harmonic progressions, etc - from which it is played. That would define it.
That "written in the score" thing is sort of a sticking point, though, since most rock isn't written or scored.
AAARRRRGH!
RE#26 -- I like Bethoven, I like disco, yet I cannot stand that song..
To each their own. What annoys you about that song? I still think it has something to do with an idea that those lines from Beethoven's 5th were somehow ruined..
You have several choices: