Grex Music Conference

Item 29: The Twenty-Sixth "Napsterization" Item

Entered by krj on Fri Oct 6 21:38:26 2006:

58 new of 87 responses total.


#30 of 87 by edina on Tue Oct 10 23:59:32 2006:

Not that there's anything wrong with it...


#31 of 87 by richard on Wed Oct 11 17:58:39 2006:

Actually the proper thing to be eating while staring at an album cover 
and listening to the record is brownies  :)  

Truth is, if you study the history of popular music, the advent of the 
album heralded a glory time for the genre.  For decades, the artists 
didn't write the songs, the songs were written down on TinPan Alley 
(where all the music offices used to be located, here in NYC near 
Chelsea)  The songs were released one at a time, they had to be a 
certain length and no longer and they were kept simple.  Elvis sang 
three minute songs and he didn't write any of them.  He performed what 
he was told to perform. It wasn't until the advent of the album that 
artists started to really break out and expand the genre.  A great 
album is like a book, you listen to it from beginning to end and it 
tells a story.  A collection of singles from the Rolling Stones doesn't 
have the same impact as a great, cohesive album like Exile On Main 
Street-- which is as a whole greater than the individual songs on it.  
Bob Dylan did "Like A Rolling Stone" as a six minute plus song.  In the 
singles era, he'd never have gotten away with that.  You didn't do six 
minute singles.  A song that long only gets recorded when its going on 
an album.  You'd never have seen The Who do "Tommy" in the singles era, 
what, you're going to do a rock opera on a stack of 45's?

I mourn the closing of Tower because it was one of the last big places 
that showcased albums.  It went down because people of younger 
generations don't have the patience for albums anymore.  They don't 
want the entire Mona Lisa painting, they just want the smile in the 
middle of it.  Listening to a song outside the context of the album is 
like reading the reader's digest version of a novel.  Music as art 
suffers when you do this.


#32 of 87 by mynxcat on Wed Oct 11 18:08:41 2006:

I don't agree that the younger generation doesn't want albums anymore. I think
they'd gladly pay for an album of good quality music. But have you listened
to the albums out there. They'll have one good song that's made it on all the
radio stations and about 9 or 10 songs that are total crap. No one wants to
pay close to $20 for one good song.

Artists also aren't releasing most of their songs in the albums. Used to be
that an artist would release at least 5 or 6 songs in an album, so you knew
what you were getting. Now it seems that every album has one, maybe two
signature songs that will be released, and people are expected to judge a
whole album based on that.

People caught on. No one likes being ripped off.


#33 of 87 by richard on Wed Oct 11 18:19:52 2006:

I agree that the decline in the quality of albums in the last ten years 
played a significant role in what has happened. Some studios started 
realizing that if many people bought albums just for one or two songs, 
that as long as those songs are recorded, why should they pay for the 
artist to take months or years to come up with the rest of the songs 
that would make an album.  Artists are under pressure to get the 
product out now, studios won't give them the time to do their best work 
anymore.  As a result you see songs placed on albums to fill them out 
that were recorded out of context and have nothing to do with each 
other.  Its as if a publisher didn't want to wait for an author to 
write a whole book, so he takes the two great chapters he has done, and 
takes this chapter and that chapter from other books the author's been 
working on, lumps them all together and calls it a "novel", when its 
actually just a mismash of odds and ends that don't fit together into 
an overrall arc.  In the neverending quest to make money, these studios 
sell out the artists. 


#34 of 87 by mynxcat on Wed Oct 11 18:22:21 2006:

Right - so blame the studios then, don't blame the patrons.


#35 of 87 by easlern on Wed Oct 11 18:22:38 2006:

Not every album is a concept album.


#36 of 87 by easlern on Wed Oct 11 18:25:25 2006:

Also, make sure you distinguish between types of consumers. There are plenty
of people who appreciate the value of an album over the value of a single,
but they're not as high-profile as your average teeny bopper making a mixtape
of their favorite Justin Timberlake and Beyonce songs. Maybe you're looking
at one group of consumers and stereotyping the rest?


#37 of 87 by mynxcat on Wed Oct 11 18:30:18 2006:

What's wrong with Justin Timberlake? His music is so much better than the
boyband's he was in


#38 of 87 by easlern on Wed Oct 11 18:34:49 2006:

I know it sounds snobbish but Justin's not exactly an "artist" in my book.
But he is a fantastic singer!


#39 of 87 by bru on Wed Oct 11 19:46:24 2006:

Viseo killed the radio star, then went on to kill the video star and the album
(video, that is) as well.


#40 of 87 by cyklone on Wed Oct 11 20:15:53 2006:

Hey richard, are you familiar with American Idiot?


#41 of 87 by edina on Wed Oct 11 20:32:38 2006:

Oooh - what a *great* album.


#42 of 87 by cyklone on Wed Oct 11 21:50:10 2006:

And somehow the "concept" needed no fancy LP album art!


#43 of 87 by twenex on Wed Oct 11 22:56:36 2006:

Re: #41. Yes it is!


#44 of 87 by twenex on Wed Oct 11 22:58:27 2006:

Hey! What's wrong with concept albums?!


#45 of 87 by richard on Thu Oct 12 16:09:11 2006:

Listen to the Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" all the way through and tell me 
if the songs don't mean more collectively than they do individually...


#46 of 87 by edina on Thu Oct 12 16:28:47 2006:

As it's one of the best albums ever made - some say the best ever 
made - it's hardly a fair comparison.


#47 of 87 by tod on Thu Oct 12 20:28:06 2006:

Pet Sounds was stupid.  If it was so profound at the time then the Rolling
Stones never would have become the legend that they are.  I also think Dylan's
departure from social commentary lyrics contributed to the Beach Boys
mayonaisse being somewhat a "safe" place for young Kresge shoppers to get
their records without pissing off their parents.
Give me Mahogany Rush and MC5 and I'll show you collective ingenuity.


#48 of 87 by easlern on Thu Oct 12 20:38:11 2006:

Re 47: Did you really listen to Pet Sounds though? I can't think of a more
moving song than "Caroline, No". The whole album is really phenomenal. It does
take a few listens to find out why it's not just a "surf" pop album. It's
worth the patience though.


#49 of 87 by tod on Thu Oct 12 20:41:44 2006:

re #48
Yea, I had to listen to the stupid album for a Rock and Roll History class
at South Seattle Community College.  Frankly, I was not impressed.  It would
take a bit of work to convince me the Wilsons with their perfectionist father
were more talented than the Funk Brothers of Motown or the Wall of Sound music
that came out of Harlem.


#50 of 87 by easlern on Thu Oct 12 21:03:22 2006:

Re 49: If it helps, Brian Wilson was pretty much the sole creative mind for
Beach Boys. He drew on influences like Phil Spector ("wall of sound") and
George Martin (Beatles) to produce Pet Sounds. Afterward, he went on to write,
produce, perform the best-selling single in history. IMHO, most talented
artist of his time.


#51 of 87 by tod on Thu Oct 12 21:36:09 2006:

The lyrics were drawn from where? The Hardy Boys books?


#52 of 87 by bru on Thu Oct 12 23:30:20 2006:

Where  did your long hair go
 Where  is the girl I used to know
 How   could you lose that happy glow




#53 of 87 by jep on Fri Oct 13 00:06:53 2006:

Brian Wilson wasn't a good lyricist, but sure could put together a great
sounding song.  "Pet Sounds" is hard to understand but I agree with
resp:50 that it's worth the effort.  I don't know if I'd consider Brian
Wilson to be as talented as Lennon and McCartney but then I don't really
care about such measurements.  He produced great music with the Beach
Boys before he checked out of reality.  Lennon/McCartney produced great
music with the Beatles and afterward.  I'm glad that we had both groups.


#54 of 87 by krj on Fri Oct 13 13:23:22 2006:

The bad news for the music business is not going to be limited to the 
loss of Tower Records.

>  ...Tower has provided a lifeline for the independent sector, with
> many niche labels dependent on the retailer for selling its product in
> the US. "A whole bunch of smaller labels are going to disappear
> completely," said René Goiffon, president of the classical label
> Harmonia Mundi. "The smaller labels are probably going to lose 80% of
> their sales."
> 
> With Tower gone from Los Angeles, he said, there would only be two
> serious music shops to cater for a city with a population of more than
> 4 million. "It's the end of an era for me and many others," said Mr
> Goiffon. "It was the biggest name, the last name that was synonymous
> with music, commitment, catalogue and knowledgeable buyers. We are
> left with Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart and K-Mart, which are all stores
> where companies like Harmonia Mundi have no presence whatsoever." 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1890819,00.html

A commenter at the music business rumor board velvetrope.com who 
claims to have worked in CD distribution was more optimistic; 
he felt that jazz and classical labels would only lose 20-40% 
of their sales, not the 80% forecast by the president of 
Harmonia Mundi.

But, several weeks or months out, I expect to see a lot of dominos
falling among smaller music labels, especially the ones outside the
mainstream.


#55 of 87 by keesan on Fri Oct 13 13:24:49 2006:

Can the smaller CD companies sell over the internet?  How do libraries
purchase CDs?


#56 of 87 by mcnally on Fri Oct 13 16:52:46 2006:

 re #55:
 >  Can the smaller CD companies sell over the internet? 

 Sure they can, but how are you going to know which companies are
 out there and what they have for sale?  They need marketing to
 drive sales, and most of these really small labels don't have
 anything like the resources needed to compete in the new market.


#57 of 87 by richard on Thu Oct 26 22:16:22 2006:

It was sad to be out at the Tower Records next to Lincoln Square 
yesterday and see all the going out of business signs and shelves 
going bare.  There were really a lot of people in despair over in the 
classical music room.  That store is right next to the Met and got a 
lot of business from people going to or from the opera.  Tower was the 
last remaining chain that had a huge stand alone classical section, 
and its closing is said to be having reverberations in the classical 
recording industry.  Unlike other genres, the classical music buyer 
tends to be older and tends to like to buy their music in person, not 
on the internet.  A lot of niche classical labels may well go under 
now.  There is a related article in today's new york times about this 
(10/26)


#58 of 87 by richard on Thu Oct 26 22:16:42 2006:

er whoops, I meant yesterday's new york times (10/25), my bad...


#59 of 87 by krj on Wed Nov 1 17:57:22 2006:

Digital Music News continues with its rumorish reports of an impending
crash in CD sales.  The hard numbers from the RIAA for the first half
of 2006 report a 15% decline in dollar value, and a 15.7% decline in
physical units shipped. (For simplicity's sake, we'll assume that
physical units are all CDs -- they are nearly all of it, anyway.)

> "In the current ((third)) quarter, several sources close to the data
> noted that the disc is starting to dive, and one projection included a
> plunge as deep as 20 percent."

http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/#102606drop

My speculative view is that CD sales will crash in the 4th quarter.
Sales were propped up in the 4th quarter last year because CDs made
easy holiday presents requiring little thought; but at some point
shoppers are going to realize that most people would rather not bother
with more CDs.   (See  http://whatacrappypresent.com   :)    )

The liquidation of Tower Records is a trailing indicator, but it is
also a clear sign to many consumers that the CD is a fading format.


#60 of 87 by mcnally on Wed Nov 1 21:31:35 2006:

If anyone wants to send me CDs, both my birthday and Christmas occur
during the 4th quarter and I will be happy to accept them to do my
part to keep the record companies going..


#61 of 87 by tod on Wed Nov 1 21:43:08 2006:

re #60
Do you accept boots?


#62 of 87 by mcnally on Thu Nov 2 01:22:06 2006:

 size 14 EEE.


#63 of 87 by tod on Thu Nov 2 15:23:45 2006:

bootlegs!


#64 of 87 by mcnally on Thu Nov 2 18:28:59 2006:

 I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me.


#65 of 87 by remmers on Wed Nov 15 20:06:20 2006:

Michael Arrington of TechCrunch posted some software that lets you save 
YouTube videos to disk and got a cease & desist order from YouTube.  
According to Arrington, the YouTube terms of service don't forbid this.  
It's kind of ironic to see YouTube getting all huffy about intellectual 
property issues.  The full story is here:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/11/15/huh-youtube-sends-techcrunch-a-cease-
desist/
Or, if you prefer:  http://tinyurl.com/ssoh7


#66 of 87 by krj on Fri Nov 24 07:43:12 2006:

I've been meaning to get around to a response on the copyright
issues involved in YouTube.   Since Google bought them, it appears
that YouTube is going to become a magnet for suits, now that there
is some money to be extracted.


#67 of 87 by naftee on Fri Nov 24 10:15:12 2006:

They should just go to Moore's.


#68 of 87 by krj on Sat Nov 25 19:30:33 2006:

Back to music retail issues for a minute:

Sony BMG, one of the four major labels, is reported to have nearly
wiped out its classical music division.  What's left of the classical
music division has been reassigned to be part of the "Commercial Music
Division," which seems to be oriented mostly towards historic reissues
and licensing for movies/tv/ads/etc.

My interpretation of this is that there will be few/no new recordings
of classical music from the Sony-BMG operation, which brings an end to
the great classical music legacy of Columbia and RCA Records.  The
"Commercial Music Division" doesn't appear to have anything to do with
new recordings.

http://www.musicalamerica.com/news/newsstory.cfm?archived=0&storyID=14985&c
ategoryID=1&cookies=1

I speculate that this is direct fallout from the closing of Tower
Records, and the continuing cutbacks at Borders.   Beyond Borders,
there is no significant in-store retailing of classical music left in the 
USA.


#69 of 87 by denise on Sat Nov 25 21:53:35 2006:

That's so sad to hear!


#70 of 87 by keesan on Sat Nov 25 23:08:45 2006:

I will take good care of my LPs.


#71 of 87 by krj on Sat Dec 2 14:21:19 2006:

Here's a dire report on Borders, the Ann Arbor-based chain which is
the last nationwide storefront retailer with much of a
pretense to covering less popular genres such as jazz, classical, folk
and world.

http://www.coolfer.com/blog/archives/2006/12/friday_morning_40.php

I am not an expert on reading the underlying Securities & Exchange
Commission filing, but it sounds like CD sales are a lead balloon
dragging down the entire Borders chain.

Quote:
> "Comparable stores sales in the music category were down 17.8% for
> the 13 weeks ending October 28, 2006."

*** !!! down 17.8% !!! ***

My speculative guesstimation is that Borders will try to get out of CD
retailing over the next two years.  I saw one Internet rumor that 
Borders planned to cut the number of CD titles in stock by 
about 1/2 this quarter.

(( Borders is also reducing the space devoted to books in the stores
I frequent, and they seem intent on turning into a greeting card retailer.))


#72 of 87 by remmers on Sat Dec 2 14:52:36 2006:

(( I've noticed the same thing, even in Borders' flagship Ann Arbor store. 
Bummer. If I want to patronize a brick-and-mortar bookseller these days, 
it's usually Barnes & Noble. ))


#73 of 87 by slynne on Sat Dec 2 16:40:11 2006:

I dont have a problem with bookstores selling stationary type items and
greeting cards and the like. But they do seem to go overboard with it. 

It would be too bad if Borders cut back on their music section but I
have to admit that as a consumer, even with a 33% discount on most
music, I still find the prices too high to justify it to myself. For
that matter, I seldom buy books there anymore either for the same
reason. 


#74 of 87 by cmcgee on Sat Dec 2 20:52:24 2006:

I always check first with Nicolas, in West Gate shopping center.  Locally
owned, can order practically everything in print.  


#75 of 87 by slynne on Sat Dec 2 21:33:45 2006:

Nicolas is a good bookstore


#76 of 87 by denise on Sun Dec 3 00:27:50 2006:

Border's becoming mainly a greeting card type store would be very sad indeed.


#77 of 87 by keesan on Sun Dec 3 00:31:43 2006:

We have gone in to look at magazines there, after the library closed at 9.


#78 of 87 by gull on Tue Dec 5 01:10:14 2006:

I think CD retailing is falling victim to the economy of transferring 
data over the Internet, instead of pressing the data onto little 
physical objects and shipping them all over the country.

Music has been the first major data-based product to go this route, 
because its bandwidth needs are relatively low.  Software is quickly 
following suit.  I think within a few years movies may start to be 
delivered that way, too, and when that happens we'll see Blockbuster 
and even Netflix starting to suffer.


#79 of 87 by slynne on Tue Dec 5 01:29:59 2006:

I suspect that Netflix will try to compete in the movie download
business.


#80 of 87 by mynxcat on Tue Dec 5 01:34:43 2006:

I agree - Netflix seems start enough to jump on the bandwagon.


#81 of 87 by twenex on Tue Dec 5 09:47:30 2006:

In this country, lovefilm (which can perhaps most succinctly be described as
"the uk's netflix" already offer some films by download - some for rental,
some to own. However, though you already a flat charge for a given number of
titles at any one time, per month, they charge extra for any downloads - even
time-limited ones.

It's a larf.


#82 of 87 by cyklone on Tue Jun 26 20:19:27 2007:

While technically about movie piracy, and not the music industry, I can't 
help but think this logic will find its way into the music debate somehow. 
Won't someone think of the FARMERS!

http://techdirt.com/articles/20070621/004352.shtml


#83 of 87 by remmers on Wed Jun 27 11:09:45 2007:

Yeah, there's a lot of corny music out there that needs protection.


#84 of 87 by cyklone on Wed Jun 27 12:59:12 2007:

Yeah, if piracy isn't stopped, the music industry will stop sponsoring country
music shows, which will reduce the sale of cowboy boots, which will harm
bootmakers, which will harm farmers who sell cowhides . . . .


#85 of 87 by mcnally on Wed Jun 27 16:41:54 2007:

..which will in turn affect the price of agricultural land, which will have
an affect on real estate prices, threatening to topple out banking and finance
industries, causing runaway Weimar-Republic-style inflation, which will lead
to the rise of a brutal genocidal dictator only *this* time he'll be armed
with nukes and bio-weapons.  So remember kids, DON'T TRADE MP3s.  The future
depends on YOU!


#86 of 87 by cyklone on Wed Jun 27 19:16:55 2007:

Fear-mongering is FUN!!!


#87 of 87 by cyklone on Sun Jul 22 13:38:37 2007:

Here's some heart-warming news for those hoping the excesses of the RIAA may
finally get reined in:

http://tinyurl.com/2d8z3e


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