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Item 255: Mac wireless internet networks.

Entered by rcurl on Wed Jul 21 05:50:12 2004:

27 new of 86 responses total.


#60 of 86 by rcurl on Wed Jun 22 16:50:24 2005:

I  would appreciate some information about DHCP in IP/TCP. In the Network
dialog in OS X I can implement automatic DHCP, but have no other control 
over it except to manually renew the DHCP lease. However in the Airport 
Base Station I'm using I can choose the DHCP lease term from minutes to 
days. What are the consequences of choosing a lease term? What happens
at the time a lease "expires" (and does its expiration depend upon whether 
the computer, or Airport Base, is in use, idle, or off)? 

The default lease term on the Airport Base was 4 hours, and on some
occasions I observed I no longer had internet access after my system had
been idle for more than 4 hours. Is this related, or a coincidence, or
what? If the former, how do I get a new lease immediately?

Mac Help is pretty useless in regard to these questions. 


#61 of 86 by scott on Wed Jun 22 20:56:38 2005:

The DHCP lease is something that the DHCP server sets, not the client.  For
your application I'd set the lease either off or for many days - a shorter
lease is only useful if you have other clients connecting and needing a lease
from a limited pool of IP addresses.  


#62 of 86 by rcurl on Thu Jun 23 00:42:11 2005:

Makes sense. Now what might I experience at lease expiration if I set the
term for several days (and how does this depend on whether the computers
and/or the Airport router is always on and/or used intermittently)? Or
maybe it is better to ask, what if any conditions of system operation and
lease term setting will lead to any observable consequence of setting a
finite lease term?

It doesn't look like I can set the lease term to zero.


#63 of 86 by gull on Mon Jun 27 03:47:24 2005:

A lease term of 0 wouldn't make any sense. 
 
The lease term sets how long a client gets to hold onto an IP address 
before it has to ask to have it renewed.  Setting the lease shorter 
means the IP will be available again sooner if the client goes away; 
setting it longer means that a client that isn't connected all the 
time will have a more stable IP address.  It doesn't generally affect 
how often the client asks to have the lease renewed, though.  My 
experience is that Windows machines, for example, will always ask for 
a renewal once every five minutes as long as they're online. 
 


#64 of 86 by rcurl on Mon Jun 27 06:24:34 2005:

I'm trying to understand how this applies in my system, where I have two
computers on a wired LAN that connects to a wireless router. I set the
DHCP lease term on the *router*, which is on most of the time.  The
computers are shut down often. When the lease term was set to 4 hours, on
occasion I could not connect from the computers until I had shut
everything down and restarted. Can this behavior be explained with how the
lease system works?


#65 of 86 by scott on Mon Jun 27 12:01:04 2005:

I don't think you should be losing connection that way.  


#66 of 86 by gull on Mon Jun 27 13:46:41 2005:

I don't think that's related, unless there's a bug somewhere.

All a lease term of 4 hours means is if the router doesn't hear from a
particular computer for 4 hours, it releases that machine's IP address
and may hand it out to another machine if a new request comes in.  The
original computer will still get an IP address when it asks for one
again, it just may not be the one it had originally.


#67 of 86 by rcurl on Mon Jun 27 16:56:09 2005:

Here's what I get for the IP addresses of the various devices:

iMac        G4        Bridge        Router
10.0.1.2    10.0.1.3  192.168.30.1  10.0.1.1
                                    69.137.222.90

I think that Bridge IP address is for accessing it's software to configure
it (?). The second one for the router is its "Public (WAN) IP address". 
The router has a default setting of
 
   "Share a single IP address (using DHCP and NAT)"

with an alternative, not being used of

   "Share a range of IP addresses (using only DHCP)"

Does this tell anyone anything about how this system is working (and if
it might lead to a disconnection if the lease term in the router is 4 
hours)?



#68 of 86 by gull on Mon Jun 27 19:44:30 2005:

It looks all right to me.  It's a little odd that the bridge's address
isn't in the same subnet, but for bridging purposes that really
shouldn't matter.


#69 of 86 by rcurl on Thu Jun 30 05:47:42 2005:

How long does it take for the router to get a new IP address at the end of a
lease term? If this can be a significant time, then I would have an increased
probability of being able to connect anew while it is negotiating for a new
lease if the lease term is short (like it was, at 4 hours). I have increased it
to 4 days, and I have not encountered the inability to connect since.


#70 of 86 by gull on Thu Jun 30 14:10:45 2005:

Usually it doesn't take more than a second or two.


#71 of 86 by rcurl on Thu Jun 30 15:40:20 2005:

Is it possible for the ISP (Comcast, in this case) to run out of leases? 


#72 of 86 by juicy on Fri Jul 1 01:49:48 2005:

I get the impression that, with Comcast, *any*thing is possible. . . . But
it should be improbable.


#73 of 86 by arthurp on Sat Jul 16 15:18:00 2005:

Given the 'always on' nature of cable internet, I would call it
unethical to sell more accounts than they have IPs.  So in correct
operation it should not be possible for them to run out of leases.  But
as juicy says...  I've had to debug and solve problems for them on a
couple occasions.


#74 of 86 by rcurl on Wed Jan 23 21:02:02 2008:

I have a wired Ethernet LAN with two computers (iMac and G4) and a printer 
(Brother 2070N), connected with a wireless adapter to an Airport base 
station (and from that to a cable router). I can also connect to the 
internet through the base station from a Mac laptop. I would like to 
*print* with the printer on the LAN from the laptop.

Is this possible and, if so, how? 

The Airport Extreme manuals only have information about printing to a USB
printer connected to the base station.


#75 of 86 by nharmon on Thu Jan 24 00:19:04 2008:

Assuming the airport base station is like other wireless router/access
points, the laptop should already be on the same network as the
workstations and printer.

Have you tried pinging the printer from the laptop?


#76 of 86 by rcurl on Thu Jan 24 01:58:59 2008:

From termimal? Using its DHCP IP address? I thought this was all built into
OSX. The Printer Browser on the laptop shows the printer, but gives no
location for it. (I'm in the dummy class for a lot of these networking details
so I need help.)


#77 of 86 by nharmon on Thu Jan 24 04:37:59 2008:

I would think you should be able to access the printer like you would
from the PCs. What kind of location information do the PCs give?


#78 of 86 by rcurl on Thu Jan 24 04:58:58 2008:

I got it to work with the DHCP IP address. The Mac Help helped but the 
procedure is not intuitive. What led me astray is that when I installed 
the printer software, it showed up in the printer selection menu, which I 
thought meant that it saw the printer. But no: one has still to Add the 
printer and give it an arbitrary name and location. There is then an 
obscure menu, which is hard to find, where one chooses the make and model 
of the printer (there are hundreds listed!).




#79 of 86 by nharmon on Thu Jan 24 05:16:26 2008:

Well, as unintuitive as it might have seemed, I can assure you it would
have been much more confusing in Windows. :)


#80 of 86 by nharmon on Thu Jan 24 05:20:28 2008:

Case in point: My networked laser printer is in the basement while my
windows PC is on the 2nd floor. If I add the printer to the windows PC,
the "add printer wizard" asks if it is a local or network printer. You
have to answer "local" in order to install it.


#81 of 86 by rcurl on Thu Jan 24 22:10:32 2008:

Another problem I had while trying to get to print across the network was that
my wife was watching streaming video on the wired LAN while I was trying to
print wirelessly from the laptop, which so jammed he pipe that none of my
packets got to the printer until she shut down. 

I'm now wondering if I even had to install the printer driver on the 
laotop, since one of the steps in adding the printer was selecting a make 
and model from a dialog. Does OS 10.4 already have printer drivers? 



#82 of 86 by arthurp on Sun Jan 27 23:43:40 2008:

Often there is a list of printers for you to install.  And often the
printer you have is not in that list until you install the software that
came with it.

Just to add some complexity here, if you can figure out how to force the
base station to assign the same IP every time, or how to assign to the
printer a static IP on the same network segment but outside the DHCP
range, you may save yourself some trouble later on if the base station
should ever decide to assign a different IP to the printer.  Or you
could just remember that this is a possibility and if the printer every
mysteriously stops working start by checking what IP it is using.


#83 of 86 by rcurl on Tue Jan 29 05:47:07 2008:

I'll keep that in mind. So far, the IP assignments have been stable. I
don't know where they come from, though. 


#84 of 86 by rcurl on Thu Jan 31 22:32:40 2008:

The success I had in printing mentioned above was a one line test phrase. Now
I am been trying to print a two page WORD document. I had two types of
failures on repeated attempts:

1. After an hour or so *trying* to print, I got "Print file was was not
accepted (client-error-not-found)!

or

2. Error dialog "printer busy, will retry in 10 sec". This every now and then
printed either a blank page or a page with just the first line of the
document.

What's gumming it up? Could it be the driver I installed when I really did
not have to?


#85 of 86 by gull on Wed Feb 6 20:38:08 2008:

Re resp:80: Yeah, the Windows idea of "local printers" and "network
printers'"is utterly confusing until you realize it's really asking
whether it's a local *queue* or not.

I suspect what Microsoft expects is that you'll tie all your network
printers to one central Windows server, and then let all your desktop
systems print through that machine, making the difference moot for
typical users.


#86 of 86 by rcurl on Thu Feb 7 17:42:39 2008:

I wrote Brother (the printer maker) about the problem and they sent me the 
standard procedure for installing a printer uner OS X 10.4 on a network - 
but not on a composite wired and wireless network like I have. Anyway, I 
tried what they suggested, and it didn't work. Now I'm inquiring on an 
apple.com forum. It's a problem, though, in getting answers when the 
system involves a Mac computer and an Apple Airport router, a Brother 
printer, and a MacWireless adapter. Probably as bad as a Windows 
system....

Yes, the usual assumption in printing with an Airport WiFi system is that 
the printer is plugged in a USB or Ethernet port on the router. The 
Airport manual doesn't address the option of a LAN connected to the router 
wirelessly.


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