Grex Helpers Conference

Item 149: Grex System Problems - Spring 2006

Entered by i on Tue Mar 21 10:23:31 2006:

170 new of 333 responses total.


#164 of 333 by tarbaby on Thu May 18 23:17:40 2006:

TROGG IS DAVID BLAINE


#165 of 333 by naftee on Fri May 19 02:27:23 2006:

we should start suing david blane


#166 of 333 by tod on Fri May 19 16:43:28 2006:

Don't give Other more ideas!
*snort*


#167 of 333 by garyn on Fri May 19 23:40:07 2006:

this board is impossible to trlol


#168 of 333 by garyn on Fri May 19 23:40:54 2006:

this board is impossible to trlol


#169 of 333 by rcurl on Sat May 20 23:18:50 2006:

I recently had a problem that I referred to staff, and received the following
automated reply:

"This is an automatic reply to tell you that your message to the Grex 
staff was received.  Mail to the (all-volunteer) staff is usually answered 
only on the weekends, so it may be up to a week before you receive a reply 
to your message.  But your message *is* in the queue and the staff does 
intend to answer it.  If you sent a question about Grex, you may be able 
to find the answer faster by looking in the list of Frequently Asked 
Questions about Grex at http://www.cyberspace.org/faq.html

"If you asked to have your password reset, please make sure you included 
the user ID of your Grex account.  If you didn't send your user ID, please 
send another message to staff to tell us your user ID. Do not send your 
password.

"Note that Grex will send out this message only once every 30 days, even 
if you send mail to staff more often than that.

"-The Grex Staff"

I certainly understand the problems of volunteer organizations, and 
appreciate efforts of the volunteer Grex staff. But I do feel it would 
benefit Grex if inquiries to staff can be addressed more rapidly. We all 
get frustrated with difficulties in obtaining (or not obtaining, or great 
delays in obtaining) responses from companies. It would be nice if Grex 
was more friendly toward users. Perhaps the responsibility for responding 
within 24 hours could be passed among staff members, say for a week each? 
Or perhaps mail to staff to go to a non-staff volunteer, who would assist 
if possible, or pass the inquiry or problems on to a staff member that is 
"on call" at that time?


#170 of 333 by gaynigger on Sun May 21 02:48:07 2006:

this board is impossible to trlol


#171 of 333 by camwhorejax on Mon May 22 07:54:42 2006:

hi it's me i'm a camwhore


#172 of 333 by keesan on Mon May 22 14:26:08 2006:

The latest trashing was 3:54 a. m..  I will be reading agora just before
bedtime and doing a fixseen in the morning.

Would it help to turn off newuser for a while?  Or only allow new users to
read most items and post in just one item until they prove that they can
behave themselves?  (And somehow limit new users to 3 postings a day).


#173 of 333 by keesan on Mon May 22 14:55:29 2006:

Can the r n (read new) command somehow be expanded to read things since a
certain time of day?  I just tried r n since 4:00 and it did not work.


#174 of 333 by rcurl on Mon May 22 16:16:31 2006:

Re #169: the weekend has come and gone since I wrote to staff on 18 May, but
I have had no response. 

The problem I am trying to solve is that I cannot ftp to the account of a 
non-profit Grex member whose account I manage, although I can ssh to it. 
I've also written to the Grex treasurer, who I presume manages accounts, 
but have not had a response. Any suggestions on how I can solve this 
problem?


#175 of 333 by mcnally on Mon May 22 16:26:47 2006:

 re #174:  do you get an error message of some sort?  are you trying to
 connect from a browser or a command-line ftp program?  Can you ftp to
 your own account using the same mechanism as you are trying to use for
 the mnac account?


#176 of 333 by rcurl on Mon May 22 16:36:09 2006:

No error message - just an immediate disconnect after entering the pw. I 
am using a command line ftp (via Mac Terminal). I can ftp to my own 
account with exactly the same procedure.


#177 of 333 by cross on Mon May 22 16:51:30 2006:

This response has been erased.



#178 of 333 by naftee on Mon May 22 17:34:08 2006:

i am a not for profit GreXer


#179 of 333 by ball on Tue May 23 01:32:13 2006:

Re #174: Have you tried sftp?


#180 of 333 by rcurl on Tue May 23 01:50:52 2006:

That's what I use. SFTP-2, in fact. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I
*think* the problem might be because the membership isn't current, or there
is a mistake in the membership records; or is a current membership not
required to ftp TO an account?


#181 of 333 by mcnally on Tue May 23 04:36:40 2006:

 membership isn't required to ftp to an account, AND I checked the
 groups that that account belongs to:  it appears to belong to the
 member and internet groups..


#182 of 333 by ball on Tue May 23 15:47:18 2006:

Re #180: perhaps it's an SSH/SFTP version problem.


#183 of 333 by rcurl on Tue May 23 17:09:20 2006:

Thanks for checking that, Mike.

I just went through connecting to both rcurl and mnac via SSH-2, using 
Terminal's (Mac OSX) Connect-to-Server directly, and both were fine. I 
then tried the same thing via SFTP-2, and could only connect to rcurl. The 
error message I got trying the connection to mnac was

Connecting to cyberspace.org...
mnac@cyberspace.org's password: 
Connection closed
[Process exited - exit code 255]

I even wrote out the mnac pw and copied it to paste in, to make sure I 
wasn't entering it incorrectly. Earlier I had changed the pw, and the new 
pw is OK to mnac for SSH while SFTP didn't work.

Does the above error message provide any clue?

Mike, are you staff, and able to change the pw and try it? (Just let me 
know what you change it to..... 8^})  If you aren't, could a staff member 
with root please check this out?

(The Staff list at the Grex website is from Jan '04.)


#184 of 333 by mcnally on Tue May 23 17:28:30 2006:

 I'll give it a try..


#185 of 333 by mcnally on Tue May 23 17:56:42 2006:

Here's what I tried:

1)  su'ed to root, then stashed a copy of the mnac
    account's password entry so I could restore it
    to normal afterward, then changed the password
    to a known string.  sftp'ed to grex and tried
    to log in but saw the same sort of behavior
    Rane is reporting:

        mcnally@radius:~$ sftp mnac@cyberspace.org
        Connecting to cyberspace.org...
        mnac@cyberspace.org's password:
        Connection closed

    To make sure it wasn't just an authentication
    error I logged in using the wrong password
    intentionally and got prompted to enter the
    password again, so if Rane is not seeing such
    a message he must be using the right password.

        mcnally@radius:~$ sftp mnac@cyberspace.org
        mnac@cyberspace.org's password:
        Permission denied, please try again.

    Finally, to verify that sftp is working properly
    between the two machines, I sftp'ed in as myself
    without any problem.

        mcnally@radius:~$ sftp mcnally@cyberspace.org
        mcnally@cyberspace.org's password:
        sftp> quit

    One thing that I thought was quite odd is that while
    editing the account as root, the password field in the
    /etc/passwd entry for mnac is a great deal longer than
    for any of the other accounts around it in the password
    file.  E.g.:

        iggy:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:8442:1002::0:0:igor von
        heiniken:/a/i/g/iggy:/usr/local/bin/bbssh
          marcvh:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:8451:1002::0:0:Marc
        VanHeyningen:/c/m/a/marcvh:/bin/bash
             fitz:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:8880:1002::0:0:Scotch! Cigars!
        Coffee!:/c/f/i/fitz:/bin/csh
             gull:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:9062:1002::0:0:David
        Brodbeck,Ann Arbor MI:/a/g/u/gull:/bin/bash
            mnac:yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy:92
        80:1002::0:0:MNAC:/a/m/n/mnac:/bin/tcsh

    The other nearby entries in the password file have
    encrypted password hashes that are 28 characters long.
    The mnac account has a 60-character long password hash.

    Can anyone familiar with the password scheme we're using
    tell me why that should be the case and/or whether it has
    any bearing on the matter at hand?


#186 of 333 by rcurl on Tue May 23 18:23:35 2006:

"if Rane is not seeing such a message he must be using the right password" 
Yes, I was using the right pw, by this test.


#187 of 333 by gayniggerassociation on Tue May 23 20:50:05 2006:

GNAA GNAA GNAAGNAA GNAA GNAAGNAA GNAA GNAAGNAA GNAA GNAAGNAA GNAA GNAAGNAA
GNAA GNAA


#188 of 333 by rcurl on Tue May 23 21:54:29 2006:

Why can't these jerks be stopped? 


#189 of 333 by nharmon on Tue May 23 21:58:11 2006:

They can, but the methods of doing so are not very comfortable.


#190 of 333 by scholar on Tue May 23 22:07:14 2006:

re. 188:  why don't you respond to every post they make with 'jerk'?  it's
always worked in the past, hasn't it?


#191 of 333 by rcurl on Tue May 23 22:25:26 2006:

Yes, it has. However I don't think these new jerks read the conferences. 


#192 of 333 by scholar on Tue May 23 23:33:47 2006:

you'll never know until you try.


#193 of 333 by rcurl on Wed May 24 01:57:38 2006:

Re #185: that is *really* weird: the wrong pw gets a message to try again,
but the right pw disconnects! Can what happens when using the right pw be
logged?


#194 of 333 by slynne on Wed May 24 02:07:38 2006:

There really dont seem to be any good methods for dealing with this type
of vandal. We discussed some ideas at the board meeting but none are
likely to be effective. It kind of sucks. 


#195 of 333 by naftee on Wed May 24 02:30:48 2006:

you guys are like the government :(


#196 of 333 by cyklone on Wed May 24 03:10:23 2006:

On the bright side, the GNAA posts make trap look a lot less offensive 
(unless he's behind the latest them).



#197 of 333 by keesan on Wed May 24 04:38:22 2006:

Can we discontinue newuser telnet/ssh access for a while, or is it also
possible to post 149 copies of trash via the web?  

Can someone pick up the droppings in such a manner that they don't leave blank
spots that appear in all the items for the rest of us (which is the problem
with the twit filter).


#198 of 333 by keesan on Wed May 24 04:39:13 2006:

Is it possible to 'browse new since 17:00' and if so how?


#199 of 333 by nharmon on Wed May 24 12:27:42 2006:

The conspiracy theorist inside of me tells me that the person behind 
these postings was an advocate for closing newuser on Grex and making 
it member-only.


#200 of 333 by twenex on Wed May 24 15:36:21 2006:

rotfl.


#201 of 333 by tod on Wed May 24 19:13:14 2006:

re #195
Don't insult the gov't like that! ;)


#202 of 333 by naftee on Thu May 25 04:33:31 2006:

oups !


#203 of 333 by rcurl on Fri May 26 02:40:10 2006:

I am still cooling my heals while waiting for some action on my problem of 
not being able to SFTP to mnac. mcnally certainly took some steps on this 
in #185, but there has been no answer to his question "Can anyone familiar 
with the password scheme we're using tell me why that should be the case 
and/or whether it has any bearing on the matter at hand?"

It has also been just more than a week since I first sent e-mail to staff 
about this problem, and received the "form letter" response given in #169.

I realize it is very "touchy" to complain about things like this, staff 
being 100% volunteer, and busy with their own live, etc. But it does seem 
reasonable to me for a user to get just a little out of sorts over being 
ignored after going through channels. 

MNAC, a non-profit charitable environmental organization, has maintained 
its website on Grex and a membership in Grex in part to help support a 
fellow charitable non-profit. However they would have to move their 
website elsewhere if they are unable to manage it here. 

Is this matter of any importance to Grex? I will repeat my suggestions 
from #169:

"Perhaps the responsibility for responding within 24 hours could be passed 
among staff members, say for a week each? Or perhaps mail to staff to go 
to a non-staff volunteer, who would assist if possible, or pass the 
inquiry or problems on to a staff member that is "on call" at that time?"

Does anyone else think this is reasonable?



#204 of 333 by slynne on Fri May 26 03:11:33 2006:

I dont know Rane. I know I would sure hate for MNAC to move but I could
certainly understand it if that were what happens. I would try sending
email to the staff again and maybe address it to the board as well. If I
knew how to fix your problem I would. 



#205 of 333 by naftee on Fri May 26 03:19:45 2006:

cool your heals ?! huh ?
did you mean heels ?
and even then ?!


#206 of 333 by rcurl on Fri May 26 03:35:41 2006:

Very astute...now, on the topic?


#207 of 333 by rcurl on Fri May 26 03:42:35 2006:

Re #204: thanks, slynne. You are a board member. As one of my 
"representatives", would you be interested in taking this issue to the 
board?


#208 of 333 by naftee on Fri May 26 03:45:07 2006:

very professorial


#209 of 333 by sholmes on Fri May 26 04:29:50 2006:

does changing the password help ?
I dunno if this was suggested before.


#210 of 333 by cyklone on Fri May 26 04:41:58 2006:

Just what I was gonna say. Rane is complaining about a lack of formal 
response when mcnally told rane very clearly his password was way the hell 
bigger than any other he'd (mcnally) come across. That sounds like a 
pretty clear ID of where the solution most likely resides. If rane can't 
change the password himself, then he should ask staff for assistance. 
There's certainly no need for an item on the board agenda.


#211 of 333 by mcnally on Fri May 26 05:04:31 2006:

 re #210:  The length of the password hash isn't a function of the
 length of the password, so I don't think changing the password
 will make a difference.  I'm also not sure that the weirdness with
 the password has anything to do with why Rane can't sftp to that
 account.

 Since he can apparently log in to the account via ssh, here's what
 I propose:  

   If Rane will send me a message from the MNAC account asking
   me to do so I will set things up so that he has permission
   to edit files in the MNAC web directory.  That won't solve
   the sftp problem directly but it will give him a way to 
   change the files (sftp them to the rcurl account, then copy
   them to ~mnac) in the meantime until we can figure out why
   sftp isn't working for mnac.

   I apologize for the delay in getting back to him but I was
   busy at work yesterday and my internet service wasn't working
   when I returned home last night.

 It's not a perfect solution but it will allow him to make the
 changes he needs.


#212 of 333 by quigley on Fri May 26 05:26:59 2006:

Plus if rane has access to the MNAC account he can copy/move the file to his
own directory and ftp from there. Temporary solution but should be better than
waiting for it  to be fixed.


#213 of 333 by scholar on Fri May 26 05:48:00 2006:

i like that someone who i've never seen post here before came here just to
bitch out rane!


#214 of 333 by slynne on Fri May 26 06:55:59 2006:

I dont mind discussing this with the board, Rane. 


#215 of 333 by rcurl on Fri May 26 15:37:53 2006:

Re #s 209 and 210: it is important to pay attention. Yes, I tried changing
the password: same result. Besides, the original password had been working
fine, and then stopped working for SFTP.

Thank you, mcnally and slynne. While my immediate goal is to do the ftp, there
is apparently a problem with how "staff" works with the users of the system,
for which I put forward some suggestions. 


#216 of 333 by nharmon on Fri May 26 17:06:42 2006:

> there is apparently a problem with how "staff" works with the
> users of the system

I agree, mcnally can't do it all himself. Grex apparently has LOTs of 
staffers, but nobody has "user support" as one of their areas of 
responsibility.


#217 of 333 by rcurl on Fri May 26 17:33:39 2006:

Re #211: mcnally's suggestion wiggled a bad connection in my brain and the 
bulb lit up. After consulting my copy of UNIX for DUMMIES.... I ftp'd the 
mnac webpage file to my account, and then from the mnac web directory 
copied it over. (This left a couple of secondary questions, such as why I 
can't ftp directly to mnac, for which I am consulting further with Mike.)


#218 of 333 by tod on Fri May 26 17:38:57 2006:

re #215
Did the SFTP password change? Are you being hacked?


#219 of 333 by rcurl on Fri May 26 17:44:28 2006:

The SFTP and SSH passwords are the same, and the latter works. Also see
mcnally's #185 for related tests. Other avenues are being pursued...


#220 of 333 by cyberpnk on Fri May 26 19:58:39 2006:

I'm sorry, as much as I love Grex, if the amount of racist, bigoted, 
and repetitive posts continues to increase, I may have to leave Grex 
permanently. I'm sorry.


#221 of 333 by mynxcat on Fri May 26 20:01:26 2006:

We will miss you Cyberpnk.


#222 of 333 by tod on Fri May 26 20:05:05 2006:

Been nice knowing you, softy.


#223 of 333 by slynne on Fri May 26 20:44:38 2006:

It is an unfortunate side effect of that kind of vandalism though. 


#224 of 333 by tod on Fri May 26 20:56:01 2006:

Its a blip on a radar not worth mentioning unless you want to feed the troll.


#225 of 333 by nharmon on Fri May 26 21:31:27 2006:

Price of doing business.


#226 of 333 by cross on Fri May 26 23:26:02 2006:

This response has been erased.



#227 of 333 by rcurl on Sat May 27 05:44:53 2006:

On another matter, concerning what might be a problem - or a policy.

I put a small .jpg file of the MNAC logo in the mnac web page here, but 
the link to it from the webpage remains broken. Does the system 
automatically refuse access to jpegs in the www directory? If so, is this 
still necessary, with the increased filespace now available?


#228 of 333 by nharmon on Sat May 27 10:56:56 2006:

Grex doesn't allow graphics, but you can get around that by making it a
SVG and embedding it into the HTML. :-)


#229 of 333 by keesan on Sat May 27 17:04:25 2006:

I cannot send mail from grex to grex today - I tried answerig three different
people (from three continents).
Rane, post the jpeg at some other site and link to it from the grex page.


#230 of 333 by tod on Sat May 27 18:05:41 2006:

Use arbornet.org for your webpage.  


#231 of 333 by nharmon on Sat May 27 18:27:04 2006:

Does Arbornet allow you to use graphics? I use sdf because they give me
a neato multics.org domain. 8-)


#232 of 333 by rcurl on Sat May 27 19:12:37 2006:

Re #229: already did that. 
How about HVCN for hosting websites? Their conferences seem to have died in
1999, but apparently they still host nonprofit websites. I considered going
there for MNAC, but wasn't anxious to change the URL. 


#233 of 333 by cmcgee on Sat May 27 20:17:24 2006:

A friend is reporting that my mail is bouncing because the ?SMPT server is
refusing connections?  Anyone know about that?


#234 of 333 by mcnally on Sun May 28 00:15:08 2006:

 In the strictest sense it's not *refusing* connections but it doesn't
 seem to be working properly, either..  I've telnetted to the smtp port
 and can't get as far as HELO, so I'm going to try resetting the exim
 process..
 
mcnally@skookum:~$ telnet grex.org smtp
Trying 216.86.77.194...
Connected to grex.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
HELO
554 SMTP synchronization error
Connection closed by foreign host.


#235 of 333 by keesan on Sun May 28 00:28:26 2006:

I try to telnet www.grex.org:   Unknown host.  I can use web interface
and I can telnet to sdf.lonestar.org (Can't try ssh at the moment
because it won't work on this computer with this linux, anywhere).


#236 of 333 by cross on Sun May 28 00:55:28 2006:

This response has been erased.



#237 of 333 by mcnally on Sun May 28 01:12:41 2006:

 I know that..  I never got that far..


#238 of 333 by cross on Sun May 28 01:17:54 2006:

This response has been erased.



#239 of 333 by keesan on Sun May 28 02:06:25 2006:

I could dial in directly to grex just now.  Can other people telnet/ssh?
I was testing a lucent modem and maybe it does not like grex.


#240 of 333 by twenex on Sun May 28 13:51:02 2006:

For AAAGES I hadn't been able to ssh in direct. I had this problem I while
ago and got it fixed, but screwed up my ssh config after an upgrade so that
it wouldn't work again. For the past few weeks I have been either ssh in
direct from a laptop running SuSE, or ssh'ing in to dahmer.vistech.net and
then to grex.

Today, without thinking, I ssh'ed direct into Grex from my Gentoo box.

And it worked.


#241 of 333 by rcurl on Sun May 28 15:23:28 2006:

Re that problem of SFTP-ing to mnac: Changing /lib to /etc for .login and 
.cshrc source directories fixed it. So it had nothing to do with the pw 
files per-se.

I also solved the jpeg problem for a homepage by putting the jpeg 
elsewhere and linking to it. But the question remains - does Grex still 
really need a no jpeg rule for web pages? 


#242 of 333 by keesan on Sun May 28 16:14:43 2006:

Where is the ssh config file?  I have somehow copied a newer version of linux
on top of my old one without /etc.  Got to copy that some time, maybe it will
fix the ssh problem.   PRNG not seeded.  


#243 of 333 by cross on Sun May 28 16:57:01 2006:

This response has been erased.



#244 of 333 by keesan on Sun May 28 20:34:30 2006:

I don't see anything related to ssh in /etc.  I should read the man page and
see what else I may have omitted.  Maybe in /root?


#245 of 333 by mcnally on Sun May 28 23:37:35 2006:

 Actually, what Rane is reporting is that his csh startup scripts
 sourced files (global.cshrc, global.login) that used to live in
 /usr/local/lib, apparently.

 So there was a line in his (or rather MNAC's) startup files that
 read:

    source /usr/local/lib/global.cshrc

 Since those files now, for some reason, live in /usr/local/etc
 the startup script would cause an error when he logged in and
 it was this that was apparently affecting his ability to sftp.

 Changing the line to:

    source /usr/local/etc/global.cshrc

 fixed the problem (as would simply commenting out that line..)




#246 of 333 by rcurl on Mon May 29 00:07:32 2006:

I would have said that.....   8^}


#247 of 333 by gull on Wed May 31 18:15:04 2006:

This response has been erased.



#248 of 333 by gull on Wed May 31 18:16:00 2006:

Re resp:194: In the past, vandals like this have eventually gotten  
bored and left, or sometimes even started to participate intelligently  
in discussions.  I don't think extreme measures like disabling newuser  
are called for, yet.  Furthermore, the more attention you lavish on  
these jerks the longer it will take for them to get bored with their  
stunt.  
  
  
Re resp:238: Re the mail problem...It's complaining because you're  
saying HELO before you get the connection banner.  That's not  
RFC-compliant behavior, so Exim hangs up on the connection.  (Hosts are  
explicitly allowed to delay the banner as a slowdown technique, for  
example if they're under high CPU load.)  I suspect the connect ACL is  
delaying sending the banner for sites that match spam blacklists,  
because this is a pretty useful technique against spambots, and I think  
I suggested it once.  Every once in a while you may find a broken host  
you have to whitelist, though.  I have no idea if this is still  
effective against spam, or if the people who write spambot software  
have caught on; it's been a few months since I was administering a  
serious mail server of my own.  


#249 of 333 by naftee on Thu Jun 1 04:15:47 2006:

damnit !

who the hell filled up /c ?!

this used to be the EMPTY partition ! i want the old /c back ! :(


#250 of 333 by nharmon on Thu Jun 1 10:35:56 2006:

You should've been on /a

Sorry!


#251 of 333 by keesan on Thu Jun 1 16:13:16 2006:

Please date messages in the motd, including those about email having been
fixed.


#252 of 333 by cross on Thu Jun 1 16:39:04 2006:

This response has been erased.



#253 of 333 by rcurl on Thu Jun 1 16:49:04 2006:

Was it not adopted because of policy, or just neglect? 


#254 of 333 by cross on Thu Jun 1 22:44:01 2006:

This response has been erased.



#255 of 333 by rcurl on Fri Jun 2 01:43:24 2006:

That sounds like the handwriting is on the wall, when those in charge are
practicing neglect. 


#256 of 333 by ball on Fri Jun 2 02:40:43 2006:

   "Email on Grex has been broken long enough for the
    situation to be considered permanent."

                           http://grex.cyberspace.org/~ball/


#257 of 333 by scholar on Sat Jun 3 08:47:54 2006:

Someone might want to help labia out:

labiocom ft 137.204.106.65   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.77   Thu10AM     0 -
pchihao  ft 222.253.76.86    19May06     0 -
mbb      ft p5491B806.dip0.t 20May06     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.115  Thu10AM     0 -
cecep    ft 157.95.31.123     4:18AM     0 RETR kaset_3_b.wav
labiocom ft 137.204.106.81   Thu10AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.98   Thu10AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.83   Thu10AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.62   Thu10AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.68   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.88   Thu10AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.54   Thu10AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.117  Thu10AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.107  Thu10AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.72   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.60   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.106  Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.85   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.115  Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.67   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.103  Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.71   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.86   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.109  Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.75   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.100  Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.111  Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.104  Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.73   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.114  Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.87   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.78   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.80   Thu11AM     0 -
labiocom ft 137.204.106.69   Thu11AM     0 -


#258 of 333 by keesan on Tue Jun 6 15:07:07 2006:

Could someone please update the motd as regards email problems of last week?


#259 of 333 by tsty on Tue Jun 6 22:37:21 2006:

now _this_ really hurts:
  
  
& n
Message 64:
From xxxx@yyyyy.com Sat Jun 03 22:48:00 2006
Envelope-to: tsty@cyberspace.org
Delivery-date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 22:48:00 -0400
Reply-To: <xxxxx@yyyyy.com>
From: "another AACS officer" <xxx@yyy.com>
To: "'TS Taylor'" <tsty@cyberspace.org>
Subject: RE: Web site
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 21:46:07 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
        boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C8757.20071F40"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
In-Reply-To: <002a01c6865c$dbeaf0$6a1e1e0a@yyyyy>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869
Thread-Index: AcaGW62keyTyYLloSxuUxrAUphJwAAMmSQAEcCZiA=
X-ArGoMail-Authenticated: xxxx@yyyyyyyy.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68757.20071F40
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

TS - you have a problem with your email server. It keeps complaining about
too many concurrent SMTP connections. Do you have an account at a more
reliable email host?

  _____




#260 of 333 by tod on Tue Jun 6 22:44:35 2006:

jalopy.org


#261 of 333 by gull on Wed Jun 7 06:38:38 2006:

Perhaps staff should eliminate the connection delays.  What worked well 
on the medium-sized email server I used to administer may be 
ill-advised for the volume of mail Grex handles. 


#262 of 333 by vivekm1234 on Wed Jun 7 15:19:07 2006:

Having some problem with my web interface to the BBS. Some articles don't show
up eg: in agora 184, 189, 177 178 and many more. Any idea why? AM i doing
something wrong? I use Firefox 1.5.0.4 on Win2K.


#263 of 333 by vivekm1234 on Wed Jun 7 15:23:52 2006:

Err ignore #262 Solved..
I needed to check "All items"
Perhaps that could be made more obvious!


#264 of 333 by tsty on Wed Jun 7 21:06:46 2006:

 ... but that would remove the thrill of finding NewStuff (tm) every time
you login ... <g>!


#265 of 333 by davel on Wed Jun 7 21:41:11 2006:

Re 261 re 259:
I see this all the time - mail to cyberspace.org hangs in the queue for hours
to days, often generating warnings after 4 hours.  If I connect to the SMTP
port, I see that "too many concurrent SMTP connections" message, & an
immediate disconnect.  And I've also gotten complaints about mail to my
Grex address not getting through; & this is much more of a problem for
Grace, who has no other email address.

But is this really a problem with the delay?  It seems to me that the delay
must be really, really, REALLY long if this is the case; when I see the
too-many-connections message the disconnect is *immediate*.  What
is the maximum allowable number of SMTP connections (or processes)
set to?  Can this be bumped up, if it realistically is much too low?

I realize that the limit is set to keep mail from completely busying out the
system.  But that doesn't mean that the default limit (if that's what it
is) is reasonable for Grex.  If the limit is inherited somehow from the
previous hardware, it's even less likely to be reasonable.  (But that seems
a bit unlikely, given that we went from a hacked sendmail to something else
at that time.)


#266 of 333 by mcnally on Thu Jun 8 00:37:28 2006:

 Grex's mail config sucks, but I'm afraid I don't know enough about exim
 to fix it.

 The maillog shows we're dropping connections on the floor pretty much
 constantly, but I'm not sure how to fix that.  I have a hypothesis that
 it may be due to our policy of introducing a 30s delay for any host listed
 in one of several RBLs, which I think causes a lot of tied up exim processes,
 but my attempts to reduce that delay to 1s by tweaking the exim.conf file
 have probably not been successful.


#267 of 333 by keesan on Thu Jun 8 01:50:00 2006:

Several people report that they can never send me mail, including from
mindspring/earthlink, which is impatient so it always times out.  


#268 of 333 by ball on Thu Jun 8 04:20:05 2006:

Re #267: That's what prompted me to post what I did on my
  Web site.  It's pointless people trying to send me email
  on Grex unless they happen to be another local user here.


#269 of 333 by rcurl on Thu Jun 8 15:42:11 2006:

I see what people mean about a problem with e-mail. I had sent a message here
a few days ago that arrived within minutes, but last night I sent one that
has still not arrived after nearly 12 hours.


#270 of 333 by keesan on Thu Jun 8 19:40:45 2006:

ssh did not work just now but telnet does.  Please someone remove the email
not working message from last week (motd).


#271 of 333 by krj on Thu Jun 8 21:05:58 2006:

My unscientific observation is that my incoming and outgoing mail
have stopped working for approximately the last 24 hours.
 
I realize that some of this is still my fault for not having moved
to a modern mail platform.


#272 of 333 by rcurl on Thu Jun 8 22:45:30 2006:

I have received some mail dated today, but not what I sent yesterday. Has it
gone into a black hole?


#273 of 333 by keesan on Thu Jun 8 23:34:36 2006:

I got three mails from AOL today (they have fixed the problem of refusing to
accept mails from us too).


#274 of 333 by keesan on Fri Jun 9 02:06:32 2006:

sdf.lonestar.org is working now, but freeshell.org is not, and the disk quotas
all set themselves to 0 (with 400MB free) and I had to 'tweak' them - I
wonder what people do who have not paid for the use of 'tweak'.  I posted this
info for people who signed up at freeshell.org for more reliable email than
grex, which has been astonishingly reliable recently.


#275 of 333 by rcurl on Fri Jun 9 14:28:59 2006:

After a few days with no spam, the dam broke this morning and 21 spam messages
poured in. But the message I sent two days ago has not. Where is it?


#276 of 333 by keesan on Fri Jun 9 15:53:15 2006:

Your message must have drowned in the flood of spam.


#277 of 333 by davel on Fri Jun 9 16:16:26 2006:

I also am seeing much more spam.  OTOH, SMTP connections are not being
closed (or much, much less frequently) with that too-many-smtp-connections
message.  I suspect no mere coincidence.


#278 of 333 by mcnally on Fri Jun 9 16:25:06 2006:

 In an attempt to end the backlogs that were causing many valid
 messages to be dropped, I disabled two of the three spam blacklist
 checks to see whether that would improve mail delivery.  Apparently
 it hasn't had any affect on the delay problems people are complaining
 about, only facilitated the delivery of more spam.

 I'll put back the copy of the exim configuration I kept from before
 my changes, restoring the status ante.

 I apologize for the extra spam; it was an experiment to see whether
 some tuning of the system would help the situation; unfortunately I
 don't know enough about exim to figure out how to increase the
 number of simultaneous connections it will accept.  I *do* know that
 the mail log is full of dropped connections, constantly, and it 
 would be nice if whoever committed us to exim would look at them.


#279 of 333 by keesan on Fri Jun 9 16:33:29 2006:

Mike, could you set up some simple script that would let people use
spamassassin?  I have never ever had a false positive (I only require three
points to dump suspected mail) but still sometimes get false negatives.
Spamassassin with 3 points was getting at least 3/4 of my spam.  (I added some
more filters on top of it).  Unfortunately it puts some large files into a
./.spamassassin directory but they could be deleted automatically at login.


#280 of 333 by rcurl on Fri Jun 9 16:38:18 2006:

Re #278 - so my message to me here was killed by a Grex spam filter? From 
a UM server address? Why would any of those be in a spam blacklist?


#281 of 333 by cyklone on Fri Jun 9 16:58:55 2006:

In case you are unaware, some ISPs, etc, filter HARD on umich.edu. I know 
from experience because several times in the last year or so I've had that 
problem with another ISP I use blocking the umich mail. There reasons were 
quite understandable. Apparently, a lot of spam or other problems involve 
umich.edu addresses. I was once told it had to do with all the freebies 
the students download using their umich accounts (presumably a reference 
to the hidden "zombieware" some freebies contain) though I don't know the 
details. In any case, if you haven't learned already, be warned now: a 
umich.edu address is apt to be filtered by any number if ISPs for any 
number of reasons. I'd suggest an alternate address for time-critical 
communications.


#282 of 333 by keesan on Sat Jun 10 12:18:18 2006:

I cannot send mail from grex or even postpone it.


#283 of 333 by keesan on Sat Jun 10 12:52:43 2006:

Sdf.lonestar.org is also inaccessible again.  When I try to telnet
it gets stuck - how do I exit from the attempt (in DOS, Ctrl-C
does not work)?


#284 of 333 by lorance on Sat Jun 10 17:35:38 2006:

I've never used telnet under DOS, but in UNIX if you enter Control-]
you should get a prompt. Enter q and press enter and you should quit.
If you don't get the prompt then I have no idea.


#285 of 333 by keesan on Sat Jun 10 18:01:49 2006:

Thanks.  First time today sdf at freeshell was 'down', an hour later
it had been up for over 3 days.  ???


#286 of 333 by davel on Sat Jun 10 18:13:28 2006:

I'm not able to get any mail at all into Grex.


#287 of 333 by keesan on Sat Jun 10 18:16:10 2006:

Ctrl-] works when I am ssh'ed to grex, but what I need is a way to
end a telnet attempt FROM grex to freeshell/lonestar.  


#288 of 333 by mcnally on Sun Jun 11 07:42:02 2006:

 re #280: 
 > so my message to me here was killed by a Grex spam filter?

 I have no way of knowing that, but probably not.  Delaying messages
 from sites that are believed to be spam sites potentially affects
 delivery of messages from all sites.  Let's say that Grex is configured
 to support N simultaneous mail connections at any given time.  Now imagine
 a whole bunch of sites that are listed in these RBLs connect and attempt 
 to deliver messages.  Because they're listed in the RBLs their connections
 are intentionally delayed to slow down spam delivery.  What happens if
 N of these sites are being kept waiting while your non-blacklisted mail
 site attempts to make the N+1th connection?  

 If I understand the system properly your connection, the N+1th, 
 is rejected because the mail server is busy and it's assumed that
 the host trying to deliver it will reconnect later when the Grex
 server isn't busy.  But from what I see in the log files I think
 we're being more or less constantly bombarded with connections
 from other hosts and there's never a time when Grex's server is not
 busy and dropping connections from other hosts that want to connect.

 I really hope I'm misunderstanding something fundamental here
 but whether I am or not something is clearly very wrong with mail
 delivery.


#289 of 333 by keesan on Sun Jun 11 12:51:53 2006:

Grex is not accepting mail for the last day or two, and yesterday (and
probably today) was not sending mail either.  What is the problem and is
anyone working on it?   I have a couple of craigslist ads listing my grex
address, because freeshell was broken at the time.


#290 of 333 by keesan on Mon Jun 12 01:36:20 2006:

fastmail.fm offers 10MB webmail without ads.  Login at least 8 characters.


#291 of 333 by rcurl on Mon Jun 12 02:50:32 2006:

When are we going to get e-mail back on Grex? Or is now the time to "jump
ship" from using Grex for e-mail?


#292 of 333 by nharmon on Mon Jun 12 11:42:13 2006:

Some of us "jumped ship" a long time ago.


#293 of 333 by slynne on Mon Jun 12 12:50:32 2006:

As much as I hate to say this, I dont think that grex currently has the 
staff needed to maintain email up to the standards we all would like. 
This is especially true since there are so many excellent free email 
services out there (like gmail). 


#294 of 333 by davel on Mon Jun 12 14:27:32 2006:

I tried to offer a gmail invitation to Grace.  They supposedly sent her
email containing the invitation.  But  since mail to Grex isn't going through,
she never got it.

AFAICS Grex is just plain not accepting mail at present.  Always that same
too-many-SMTP-connections message.


#295 of 333 by keesan on Mon Jun 12 15:46:52 2006:

Last I knew grex was not sending outgoing email either.  I don't know any
other place besides freeshell to get a shell account that will let us use
non webmail with mail, mutt, or pine, and set up spamassassin and procmail.
Is anyone working on this problem?


#296 of 333 by krj on Mon Jun 12 17:01:16 2006:

Rane in resp:291 ::  It was probably time to leave Grex's email service
about a year ago.   I'm still doing too much mail here, unsuccessfully, 
too. 
 
Dave in resp:294 on Gmail invites:  Have grace get a hotmail account, then
send the Gmail invite to the hotmail account?
 
Sindi in resp:295 :: There are probably good reasons there are 
very few public shell accounts with e-mail any more.  Email has become
a very difficult and hostile environment.  There is little reason to 
expect volunteers to work like beavers to give you reliable 1985-style
e-mail any more.


#297 of 333 by mcnally on Mon Jun 12 17:05:24 2006:

 Here's the deal.  I'm out of town, on the first vacation I've had in 
 quite a while.  As much as it annoys me (I conduct most of my personal
 e-mail through Grex and there's no telling what I'm missing, same as
 many of the rest of you..) I'm not planning on spending my vacation
 learning how to administer exim properly and fixing Grex's e-mail.

 Unfortunately nobody else from staff seems to be responding to, 
 or possibly even reading this conference posts.  

 When I get back I'm willing to take a shot at getting a mail configuration
 working on Grex, but if I do it I'd prefer to use postfix, a mailer I'm
 more familiar with.  Also, there may be a period when mail doesn't work
 at all while things are swapped over.  If people can live with that I'll
 give it a try when I get home.  


#298 of 333 by remmers on Mon Jun 12 17:33:13 2006:

Well, I'm at least reading this item.  Don't know that I'll have time to
work on exim either.  (Mail server configuration is in general something
I haven't had a lot of experience with.)

As I recall the history, we're using exim because a staff member at the
time we were transitioning to openbsd was intimately familiar with it
from work and volunteered to set it up.  Unfortunately, for reasons that
I think were beyond his control, he's no longer an active staff member,
so we no longer have a resident exim expert.

I think that if you're willing to work on mail configuration and nobody
else is, the mail software we use should be your call, so I would
support switching to something you'd be more comfortable with.


#299 of 333 by keesan on Mon Jun 12 19:16:03 2006:

Thanks Mike and John.  Perhaps I should start an agora item in which we can
post messages for other grexers.  In the meantime I won't use the grex email
address for craigslist postings.  


#300 of 333 by naftee on Mon Jun 12 20:27:01 2006:

what on earth would sindii post on craigslist ? 

does she write about GreX twits in the rants & raves section ?


#301 of 333 by cross on Mon Jun 12 20:56:03 2006:

This response has been erased.



#302 of 333 by gull on Tue Jun 13 03:37:57 2006:

The number of simultaneous connections is governed by the 
'smtp_accept_max' variable.  Unfortunately the Exim documentation 
doesn't mention what the default setting of this variable is.

A couple other suggestions to streamline the process:
- Currently you wait up to 30 seconds for an ident response.  This 
happens during the connect phase.  I'd shorten that.  Set 
"rfc_1413_query_timeout" to something in the 10 second range, if you 
absolutely can't live without it.  I find ident isn't very useful these 
days, so I tend to disable that lookup entirely.

- You have 'deliver_queue_load_max' set to 1.0, which means you aren't 
doing any deliveries when the load average is above that value.  I 
might bump that up to 2.0, since Grex seems to run pretty high load 
averages at times.  This may be part of the reason you aren't getting 
much mail through.  This is a tricky one; you're potentially trading 
off system responsiveness for getting more mail through.



If you've got more people who are familiar with postfix, switching 
might be a good idea.  MTAs are funny that way; they're complex 
programs and people who know one generally find any others to be 
incomprehensible.  For example, I know Exim reasonably well, but I'd be 
lost with Postfix, and I can just barely get Sendmail going.


#303 of 333 by nharmon on Tue Jun 13 12:01:40 2006:

I'm familiar with exchange, but not out of choice.


#304 of 333 by keesan on Tue Jun 13 14:18:14 2006:

I could never get mail from earthlink/mindspring, it always timed out (they
did not wait long enough).  Is that related to the previous response?


#305 of 333 by mcnally on Tue Jun 13 18:36:33 2006:

 re #302:  I tried bumping up the load average limits for queueing and
 delivering mail to 2.5 or 3 or something like that before I also tried
 cutting out several of the RBL checks.  It didn't appear to make any
 significant improvement in delivery or in the number of messages dropped.

 If you're knowledgable about exim configs you could have a look at the
 configs, suggest specific changes (maybe edit a copy, I'll look at the
 diffs, and apply them) if you have the time..


#306 of 333 by davel on Tue Jun 13 20:01:52 2006:

Re 297 (way back):
Mike, I certainly didn't mean to be dumping on you.  My experience over the
years has been that you're willing to help people whenever you can,
& I'm confident that you approach staff stuff the same way.  I know I
wasn't the only one complaining; but I for one wasn't pointing any fingers.

Meanwhile, it sure looks like someone did *something*.  The dozen queued-up
messages that had been trying to go to Grex for several days now seem to have
suddenly vanished from the queue - & as I haven's gotten any bounce messages,
I think they must have gone through.  But a new message I just sent seems
to be hanging there.  Dunno.


#307 of 333 by keesan on Tue Jun 13 21:12:32 2006:

I just tried to send myself a mail with pine.  I did not get the usual error
messages but it took a long time to go from 0% to 100% sent and then got stuck
at 100%.  Ctrl-C exited pine and told me I had sent the mail (after I waited
a few minutes for the prompt) but the mail has not arrived.


#308 of 333 by cross on Tue Jun 13 21:23:20 2006:

This response has been erased.



#309 of 333 by keesan on Tue Jun 13 22:04:39 2006:

finger root -- Charlie Root, mail last read June 12, logged in from msu.edu,
running sh which is using 14% of CPU, causing load average to be around 8.
Amazing that I can still see what I am typing.  sh is a shell.


#310 of 333 by keesan on Tue Jun 13 22:06:31 2006:

sh is now up to 16% of CPU time.  It was 13% when I first looked.
Another hole to be plugged?

166 processes, of which 1 is running and the rest are stopped.


#311 of 333 by keesan on Tue Jun 13 22:07:36 2006:

Make that the rest are idle or zombie, 1 on processor, and sh is 15%.


#312 of 333 by keesan on Tue Jun 13 22:10:55 2006:

Charlie Root has been running ssh since approximately 5:47.  jp2 has been
logged on since 5:38 and is running 'j p 2'.  The rest of us are running bbs,
party, lynx, bash, and the like.  


#313 of 333 by cross on Wed Jun 14 00:12:18 2006:

This response has been erased.



#314 of 333 by gull on Wed Jun 14 00:25:59 2006:

True, it's much better to log in as someone else and the su to root.  
OpenBSD doesn't nag about it just to be contrary. ;)


#315 of 333 by keesan on Wed Jun 14 03:00:31 2006:

I just got my first mail sent to grex in about a week, and was able to answer
it (I hope) in under 30 sec, but I still never got the mail I sent myself
earlier.  Thanks if someone fixed something.


#316 of 333 by keesan on Wed Jun 14 03:16:34 2006:

Load average is back down from 9 to .4.  How would we mortals figure out what
is causing the load average to go up so we can report it to staff?


#317 of 333 by mcnally on Wed Jun 14 08:16:18 2006:

 One of the things which is causing mail failures, I believe,
 (but not the only one) is that periodically /var/spool runs out
 of free inodes.  It runs out of free inodes because there's a
 totally absurd number of files in several subdirectories of
 /var/spool/exim which never, ever seem to get cleared out.

 Can someone who's familiar with exim tell me what purpose the
 various subdirectories of /var/spool/exim serve and how files
 in there are supposed to be purged?  Because we don't seem to
 be doing it properly..


#318 of 333 by keesan on Wed Jun 14 21:52:57 2006:

I am still getting mail from June 8 - better late than never.  Thanks again
STeve et al.


#319 of 333 by cross on Wed Jun 14 23:18:41 2006:

This response has been erased.



#320 of 333 by keesan on Thu Jun 15 00:48:27 2006:

I was able to reply to a few June 7 mails that just showed up but now I am
getting an STMP greeting failure when I try to send mail.  We picked the wrong
week to try to sell a car.  Turns out lots of people were interested a week
ago.


#321 of 333 by keesan on Thu Jun 15 01:22:13 2006:

Today I have been getting mail progressively from June 9, June 8, June 7 and
now June 6.  I wondered why people had stopped writing.  Thanks again.


#322 of 333 by keesan on Thu Jun 15 01:56:16 2006:

In among the June 7 I just got a May 23 mail!  Rane was saying it took up to
12 days to get mail at grex, but this is about 21 days.  How does the mail
manage to get so bogged down?  Can exim be instructed to deliver the oldest
mails first instead of the newest ones?


#323 of 333 by steve on Thu Jun 15 04:09:50 2006:

   There are some old pieces of mail in the queue which I think will now
get liberated.  Exim is likely going to get a little more tweaking
before this is all over.  But mails are moving fairly quickly now.
It took about 1.5 minutes for mail to get from msu.edu to grex, and
faster than that the other way around.


#324 of 333 by rcurl on Thu Jun 15 07:57:19 2006:

Wow! The e-mail dam has burst. But, thanks!


#325 of 333 by gull on Fri Jun 16 23:57:27 2006:

Re resp:317: I don't have the permissions to see what's 
in /var/spool/exim here, but on my own machine I see four directories.

db/ - This only has four files in it, on my system.  I think it 
contains Exim's retry database.

input/ - This holds the message queue.  If I remember right there are 
two files per message, one containing just the headers and one 
containing the message body.  If you've got a lot of crap in there, you 
need to figure out why messages are stacking up in the queue.  A common 
culprit is undeliverable bounce messages, which Exim "freezes" and 
keeps in the queue until the time set in the 
"ignore_bounce_errors_after" option is reached.  You want this time 
*short* because undeliverable bounces are almost always the worthless 
backscatter from spam runs.  Right now Grex has this set to 2 days, 
which I'd say is on the long side.

msglog/ - This holds log information about messages that are in 
transit.  The files here (one per message) are normally deleted once 
the message is delivered, although sometimes they get missed and 
linger.  Again, if this is full, it might be because you have a long 
queue.  This information is duplicated in the main log, so it's safe to 
say "message_logs=false" in the beginning part of exim.conf and delete 
the contents of this directory.  This should help the inode problem.

scan/ - This is a temporary directory where messages are unpacked while 
they're scanned by external software like ClamAV or SpamAssassin.  I 
don't think Grex is running either of those programs, so there 
shouldn't be anything in there.


#326 of 333 by mcnally on Sat Jun 17 00:18:24 2006:

 The msglog directory has tens, or possibly hundreds, of thousands of
 files, some of them dating back to 2004.

 I presume those aren't from messages Grex is still attempting to deliver..


#327 of 333 by gull on Sat Jun 17 00:39:09 2006:

Remember that Grex crashed a lot, for a while.  Most likely Exim never 
got to delete those files due to a crash, or perhaps there's a bug that 
causes them to occasionally escape deletion.

Like I said, they're safe to delete, and if you set 
"message_logs=false" you shouldn't have to deal with them anymore.  
They're really only useful for troubleshooting delivery problems, and 
the same info can be gleaned from the other logs with a bit of effort.


#328 of 333 by cross on Mon Jun 19 00:18:08 2006:

This response has been erased.



#329 of 333 by gull on Tue Jun 20 20:35:07 2006:

I'm not arguing with that.  I've got four old message log files on my 
own small server, and I have no idea why.  Frankly, I think the whole 
individual-message-log thing is a misfeature that should be removed, or 
turned off by default.

UNIX software in general doesn't seem to clean up after itself very 
well.  If it did there wouldn't be a need for periodic /tmp cleaning 
scripts to get rid of old, stale lockfiles and the like.


#330 of 333 by eprom on Wed Jun 21 23:43:39 2006:

its officially summer


#331 of 333 by keesan on Thu Jun 22 01:29:36 2006:

I could not dial either number just now and connect - they both just rang.


#332 of 333 by naftee on Thu Jun 22 02:10:36 2006:

what !

m-net seems to be down :(


#333 of 333 by scholar on Thu Jun 22 02:13:23 2006:

 :(

plz fix


There are no more items selected.

You have several choices: