188 new of 260 responses total.
What, again, is the point of turning off e-mail use for non-members, even if there are few dependent upon it (which is yet to be established)? Non-members are the future life of Grex as that's the group from which members come. If some misuse is the problem, why should that be the reason to punish others?
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Won't people simply wait 48 hours before spamming then?
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Sdf has a 1-month free trial period with greatly reduced privileges then you can send in $1 to join, which spammers are not likely to do. Would it be worth the nuisance of making people send in $1 to use outgoing email?
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Sending a dollar by US mail is not difficult.
Unless you are not living in the US.
You could ask people living outside the US to send a postcard instead. That should be enough to stop spammers. I was thinking it might be a nuisance to the treasurer having to collect this extra mail. I have alternative mail and I still prefer grex mail (or sdf) to webmail or pop mail. sdf takes 2-3 weeks to receive the dollar and activate the account.
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I don't think collecting the mail is a problem, but there is added work in doing something about it for every new user. Newuser is automatic for a reason. Instead, create some kind of online hoop the new user must jump through that delays activation of e-mail for a week or so. Like, writing a 100 word essay.... 8^}
A computer could write essays, plagiarized from any place.
When I tried to log in at 15:56:18 system time, I got the following error, followed immediately by a disconnect. -bash in malloc(): error: recursive call I've gotten this once or twice before, always using SSH (and always from the "SSH Secure Shell" client for Windows (running XP), which doesn't give any more information about itself than that in the Help About box). I connect again fine immediately (well, as soon as I can tell it to connect and give my password, anyway).
Ok: rn News on Grex is down, and has been for a couple of years now. At this point it is unknown if news will ever be back. Sorry. In the meantime, please load Lynx and go to http://groups.google.com/ :(
I just fingered a user on Grex and got a couple of lines like this:
Last login Wed Dec 21 09:05 (EST) on ttyp9
from ...
Mail last read Sat Jan 7 22:22 2006 (EST)
Since there's no way I know of to read Grex mail without logging in
(except ftping the mail file), I'm wondering how the "mail last read" date
can be later than the "last login date". Is one of them bogus?
Surely he was on for enough time for that? Try the "last [user]" command to see how long he was on.
Er, "perhaps" rather than "surely."
Well, in this case, he would have had to be on for 17 days straight, which seems unlikely. So I hecked last as you suggest, and in fact the user in question was logged on for only 23 minutes on Dec 21, and hasn't been on since.
I just checked, and "last" can be fooled -- I su'ed into my own account, and it only caught the outer process, not the inner one. There's probably other ways, too.
Did you "su -"? Last checks logins, not processes. "Su -" logs you in (again), whereas "su" only starts another process with superuser processes.
Er, superuser PRIVILEGES.
"Su" logs you in (so to speak; you're right that it akes "su -" to create a login process) as whoever you specify, provided you know the password. (If you don't specify, it assumes the superuser.)
Last does not register your login when you login via backtalk.
Yes, but it's hard to read your mail via Backtalk.
It appears if you log in with a non-interactive shell, for example: "ssh grex.org bash -i" no login record is made.
Can anyone figure out why sdf just stopped working a few minutes ago? I can't even access the website. I sent a mail, then could not send the next one, then could not read mails, then could not ssh back in. Is this a crash?
Could be a network outage but I suspect a machine crash or a network break somewhere relatively close to them. The traceroute from where I am in Tokyo is fairly long but dies a few hops into att.net's network.
It works again, thanks.
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Thanks, Bruce and Dan. So if I understand correctly, I should trust the "mail last read" time, but not the "last login" time. Is that correct?
I wouldn't trust that very far. I forget which time that is - I sort of think the mtime, but it's been a few years since I really knew - but in any case MTAs & MUAs touch the relevant times (for when mail was last received & last read) in somewhat counterintuitive ways, and a simple touch can also change them. Not to mention updating or accessing mail with something other than an MTA or MUA.
Hmmm. Well, is there any reliable way to tell when someone last looked at their mail?
Re resp:103: For example, many systems have a 'from' command that will list out the header information for your mailbox in a concise format. I used to use it in my .profile as a sort of mail preview.
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I was dialed in and suddenly Pine stopped letting me do anything and a series of connect 115200 lines started appearing on my screen, so I hung up and tried to dial again and could not connect. Would someone else please check the grex modem connection? Bill at Kiwanis says he is testing the 33.6K modem bank for a week or two of continual file transfer to weed out the bad ones. He could not find a way to upgrade to 56K. But they work otherwise and we should soon have a LOT of replacements (20?). It is not my modem, I am now connected via an 'ISP' (TCP/IP). Half an hour ago the fuse to my living room North blew at my apartment while I was dialing grex, but that can't have affected the grex modems. Anyone know how to make the replacement fuse work? Do I need to clean out corrosion before replacing it? The basement is rather damp where the boxes are, just above the laundry tub.
I had that same problem with fuses so I had an electrician come and install circuit breakers.
It would be desirable to brush off corrosion on the fuse clips. Of course, you DO want to turn off the main power for removing and replacing a fuse (presuming it is a cartridge fuse).
How is this to be interpreted? That is, where did the block occur and why?
Is this a case of att.net blocking mail from grex because of too much spam
originating here?
From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@cyberspace.org>
To: rcurl@cyberspace.org
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
brodovich@att.net
(generated from mnacbrd@cyberspace.org)
SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL
FROM:<rcurl@cyberspace.org> SIZE=2234:
host gateway1.att.net [204.127.134.23]: 550-216.86.77.194 blocked by
blacklist.mail.ops.worldnet.att.net.
550 Blocked for abuse. See
http://www.att.net/general-info/rblinquiry.html
Yes, it's clear from that bounce message that att.net is blocking email from Grex due to spam issues.
What is being done about this? Will it be done soon enough so that mnacbrd doesn't have to find a new server? (It is a charitable non-profit that is a Grex member as mnac.)
If the changes I've made to limit newuser access to outbound mail are working, that should give us some time to let things settle and start requesting removal from each of these lists or get our bad-boy status timed out.
Assuming the changes work, what would be a guess for the time to be removed from blocking lists?
No idea. The few times I've had systems on a blacklist in the past, it was a transient problem with one of the blacklists that offer a web interface to request or trigger a cleanup. With others, we will simply have to wait until our bad rep times-out, so to speak. There is some data in /var/log/maillog that may be useful. It seems some smtpd daemons when rejecting you are kind enough to point to a URL for further information on the spam service in question they used to reject us.
As Bruce says, there are many block lists and all of them have their own policies regarding removal.
The fuse is a Type S 15 amp with a white screw-type end, and the fuse boxes belong to my landlord. Jim has removed corrosion before and will do so tomorrow. I don't feel like buying my landlord a break panel.
Its only been a few days since the last time I was here... How come all of the items are showing up as new? This has happened other times as well.
Because people responded to them?
Is this by any chance the second time your are entering those conferences since you relogged into the system for the first time in a long while? When you join a conference, picospan shows you the 1st and most recent items if I recall correctly. The next time, I think everything you haven't yet read suddenly shows up as new.
If you want to get removed from Comcast's blacklist, e-mail blacklist_comcastnet@cable.comcast.com. Here's how they will respond: ---------- Please do not reply to this message. This is to notify you that your request for removal from the comcast.net blocklist has been received. If you have included your mail server's IP address in your request, it will be removed within 24 hours. Thank You Comcast Network Abuse and Policy Observance ---------- (My mother's ISP was blocked. I sent them a message from my mother's e-mail address, and apparently this is what caused Comcast to allow my mother's ISP to send again.)
AOL is still refusing Grex mail
<recipient>@aol.com
SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection:
host mailin-04.mx.aol.com [205.188.159.217]: 554- (RTR:BL)
http://postmaster.info.aol.com/errors/554rtrbl.html
554- AOL does not accept e-mail transactions from IP addresses which
554- generate complaints or transmit unsolicited bulk e-mail.
554 Connecting IP: 216.86.77.194
re 119, if people respond to items, they shouldn't all show up as brand new items so I'd have to read all the responses again, or work back and figure out which ones aren't really brand new... It doesn't happen all the time, just sometimes.
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I think the conference restarted a couple weeks ago. Whatever; apparently its not a big problem and only happened a couple times so far.
BACKTALK:
Today I changed my conference preferences to show new items before
new responses to existing items, and since I did that, the "READ NEW"
buttons show up as inactive despite text specifically indicating new
responses in the conference. I use the pistachio interface.
OTHER: OK.
WHOA:;
I am trying to have an email exchange with Jim's son. Mail I send him from grex to his 'collegeclub' address bounces because collegeclub is using spamcop as a single criterion for rejection. Now he says that mail he is sending me at sdf is bouncing back because sdf is using the spamcop black list and collegeclub is on the black list (starting some time today - I got mail from him there earlier). So it is good to have several email address. I have to write to him from sdf to collegeclub and he has to reply from there to grex. Spamcop is causing more problems than the spam. Have gmail or aol or comcast been on the spamcop list yet? Argh [TM]
Operamail.com is also using 'spamblock'. How long do we need to wait to get off the spamcop list? Could we write and explain we are no longer allowing new users to send mail?
Just looked at: http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblock&ip=grex.org and got: 216.86.77.194 not listed in bl.spamcop.net when verifying grex's current status. Need more information to chase this any further.
I just had to sign up with spamcop in order to report the 7 Windows-1251 spams that showed up in 12 hours because I can't figure out where sdf is putting user mail. They have procmail, probably not spamassassin. Anyone know where sdf/NetBSD normally puts user mail so I can use procmail there? I just noticed that I put both my email addresses in my online resume - I am amazed that the spammers did not reap the sdf one until recently. Maybe they found the word Russian at my website and are sending 1251 for that reason? All I see is Greek and math symbols. Linux does not seem to come with 1251, just KOI8 and iso 8859-1 and cp866 Cyrillic.
spamblock at operamail.com is refusing grex mail, not spamcop.
From Mailer-Daemon@cyberspace.org Thu Jan 19 14:22:26 2006
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:22:26 -0500
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
XXXXX@operamail.com
SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<XXXX@operamail.com>:
host operamail-com.mr.outblaze.com [64.62.181.91]:
554 EMail from mailserver at 216.86.77.194 is refused.
See http://spamblock.outblaze.com/216.86.77.194
---------------
I can't imagine what they are filtering on - it was a short letter
thanking someone (in plain English) for sending me a dictionary. I will
try again as a test.
They just returned another short email. Maybe they are using an out of date spamcop blacklist?
Sdf also got the mail bounced back, but this time not by spamblock. Her mailbox is full.
re #133, 134: Sindi (and anyone else who reports a complaint about spam blocking..): It's important that you be specific and careful with your phrasing when you report things like this. If you're not exactly sure what is happening, provide the error message verbatim (as you did in #133) and not your interpretation (as you did in #134.) For instance, you asked about the spamcop list. Bruce checked and reported that we're not (currently) on the spamcop blacklist. But then in item #134 you're again talking about "[a] spamcop blacklist", apparently using it as a generic term. "blacklist" would be the generic term, when you say "spamcop" you're talking about a specific instance, which makes an already confusing situation even moreso.
So I did another round of checking our status. Spamblock, a different
blocking service homed at spamblock.outblaze.com, had grex listd
for a spam sent back in December. I made a removal request which
now seems to have taken effect:
http://spamblock.outblaze.com/216.86.77.194
I also checked rbls.org which has a multi-rbl check page:
http://rbls.org/?q=216.86.77.194
and according to them, that we're off (or probably off) most of the
lists they check except for the blackmailers at dnsbl.sorbs.net.
picospan seems to have this major lag after starting
I would still appreciate help setting up procmail at sdf - where should I look for user mail at NetBSD. 3/4 of my 'mail' is now spam there, from three sources judging from the format (two Russian selling who knows what, one selling pirated Windows software). And can I find precompiled NetBSD spamassassin somewhere? Thanks Bruce for getting us off another spam blocking list. How many are there?
User mail at SDF is in /mail/username -- in my case /mail/kingjon .
Jon, thank you very much. I asked twice in the bboard mail conference at sdf with no answer. I copied over my grex .forward and .procmailrc files and changed locations of procmail and keesan mail, deleted the part about spamassassin, and added four filters that are catching spam from three sources. I seem to be on a Russian translators' spam list, believe it or not. Can there really be Russian translators dumb enough to read spam and buy pirated Photoshop?
Grex is still on the att.net no-no list.
I'm still occasionally getting all items as new in this conference--instead of where I left off a day or two [or three] earlier. From my post I made earlier, it doesn't sound like anyone else is having this problem.
Nobody else has mentioned it. I took a look at the permissions on your conference participation files and they look OK, but perhaps there's something messed up in your .agora56.cf file. With your permission I'll remove it, which will certainly cause you to have to mark things as new one more time but might fix your problem thereafter.
Sometimes when I read the conferences when telnetted in (as opposed to reading them on the web), I find that when I exit my participation file doesnt get updated which results in symptoms that are similar to what Denise is describing. Usually it occurs if I dont exit bbs before logging off Grex.
("Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Don't do that!")
I believe that adding "set autosave" to your config file may help if that's a frequent problem.
I don't know how to look at my particpation files, let alone knowing how to change anything... [And I do telnet to read the conf. as opposed to reading on the web. So maybe sometimes I do the same thing slynne does.]
I am still having problems entering responses when dialed in direct. Core dump if I use my default editor, and "Nasty error" if I define editor vi.
re #148: If you ask me to, I will remove your conference participation file for the current Agora to see if that will fix the problem. re #149: Does it happen if/when you telnet or ssh in?
No. Entering responses and items works normally via ssh and telnet.
Odd..
I tried connecting to Grex via dial-up about a week ago for the first time in a while and ran into an odd terminal emulation issue on the Grex end. I couldn't access pine to read my e-mail because it interpreted my terminal type as "dial-up." So, I went to the Grex menu system to change my terminal. I defined my terminal as VT100 and Grex seemed to register it as such, but when I tried to read mail via pine it told me again that my terminal was "dialup" and wouldn't allow me to access mail via pine. Why wouldn't Grex register the correct terminal type on dial-in even after it was told what that type would be? It seems like Grex is forcing a terminal type called "dialup" on dial-in users. I'm dialing in on a Mac running Mac OS 9.2 and Zterm 1.1b7. I would still like to access Grex via dial-up locally on occasion, as I don't always have access to a high-speed internet connection. I like Grex because I don't need e-mail to be anything other than text, and it's been nice to have a consistent e-mail address since finding Grex in Ann Arbor in the mid-1990s. On another note, I can't seem to use a secure shell to get to Grex via an Internet connection anymore, either. I have to use plain old telnet, which isn't terribly secure. What's going on there?
I'm still not getting Backtalk buttons enabled when they should be. Jan? Steve (Weiss)?
From Mailer-Daemon@cyberspace.org Tue Jan 31 22:30:19 2006
X-Failed-Recipients: XXXX@worldnet.att.net,
XXX@att.net,
XXX@aol.com,
XXX@aol.com
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@cyberspace.org>
To: keesan@cyberspace.org
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:30:18 -0500
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
XXX@worldnet.att.net
SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<keesan@cyberspace.org>
SIZE=3823: host gateway2.worldnet.att.net [12.102.240.23]:
550-216.86.77.194 blocked by blacklist.mail.ops.worldnet.att.net. 550
Blocked for abuse. See http://www.att.net/general-info/rblinquiry.html
XXX@att.net
XXX@aol.com
SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection:
host mailin-02.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.185]: 554- (RTR:BL) http://postma
ster.info.aol.com/errors/554rtrbl.html
554- AOL does not accept e-mail transactions from IP addresses which
554- generate complaints or transmit unsolicited bulk e-mail.
554 Connecting IP: 216.86.77.194
XXXX@aol.com
SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection:
How did we get on the rbl list again?
It's a different blacklist than before.
So how did we get onto this different blacklist after blocking new users from sending outgoing mail?
I've no idea and it's not likely they'll explain. Maybe it was the same mail that we blocked but this list has a longer management cycle and were slower getting around to blocking us. Given the profusion of such lists it's nearly impossible to know how they all work.
We were blocked by AOL earlier. Can we write and ask to be unblocked?
We are still blocked by AOL. I just got a message there returned. AOL is ubiquitous: e-mail service from Grex is much degraded by a block to AOL.
whoa !
OK. Now I'm using a PC with Microsoft Windows XP and HyperTerminal. Same problem. Despite using the menu system to change the terminal type to VT100, which is what I'm emulating on my end, Grex registers this and then later tells me that my terminal type "dialup" is unknown, and therefore won't allow me to access mail via pine. What's going on?
Re resp:160: AOL's block list is notoriously overzealous and hard to stay off of. AOL's email service shouldn't be considered reliable by anyone.
But unfortunately there are still dummies who use AOL, and I work for one of them and Jim's brother is another.
Wow. How unpolitically-correct of you. You're right though.
Haven't you see any of the AOL for DUMMIES books? Yellow and black cover. I have also see Weddings for Dummies, or maybe it was for Idiots.
There are many, MANY "... For Dummies!" books out there.
Ah, maybe I took your comment out of context. I assumed you were really disparaging dummies. I prefer the "Idiot's Guides" myself. Funnily enough I thought the "for Dummies" books were more patronizing.
Idiot implies you are incapable of learning, dummy that you are uninformed but not unintelligent.
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Both dummy and idiot imply someone who is unintelligent, although idiot is a bit more extreme and used to imply a profound mental disability. The word for someone who is uninformed is "ignoramus."
People will admit to being a, say, Unix Dummy, more readily than being a Unix Ignoramus. The latter, though, is better for identifying someone else.
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Grex is fixed. Hail Ming! er, STeve!
Thanks for the update on the system downtime!
From WordNet: Dummy: 1. a person who does not talk 2. an ignorant or foolish person Idiot: 1. a person of subnormal intelligence Ignoramus: 1. an ignorant person Still, I'd rather be called a "dummy" -- and "wilfully ignorant" is as sharp an insult as you can give (if you want to do so) in my book.
/me humps Katrisa's leg
I have abandoned my own spam filters in PINE on CAEN and am now using their server-side Brightmail filter. I don't know the details of its operation, but I gather CAEN subscribes to a spam list - IP addresses I think - and applies them to filter. It works very well. There is less than 1% "good" e-mail sent to the Junk folder, and similarly the junk in the good mail is very small. I think I still need to scan the junk folder for anything good, but may decide that it isn't worth the effort, and just accept the loss of a few good items. Can Grex use Brightmail?
I think Brightmail is a subscription service.
Apropos of Denise's earlier comments, the "everything is new" happened to me, and it appears that the reason is because my participation file is 0 bytes long. Apparently something went wrong when I exited from the conference the previous time. It doesn't look like the disc was full or any other obvious problem like that.
AOL is still blocking grex mail, apparently using some att blacklist. Jim read that ATT is going to sell advertising space to advertisers, in that it will agree not to block spam from them to its members, for a fee. I guess real mails from grex would distract users from the paid messages.
any progress on getting back email from that 8mm tape, please?i think many of us (many who have said so) have irretrievable addreses from a-way-far-back that are on that last (eons ago ???) backup.
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is this considered a problem these dyas? grex% w 8:44PM up 7 days, 18:52, 12 users, load averages: 0.59, 0.55, 0.55 USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT roger2 p0 217.16.69.100 8:13PM 7 lynx tsty p1 c-68-41-26-134.h 8:42PM 0 w grogg p2 c-24-118-175-175 8:43PM 0 (pine) denleon p3 paradigm.cypress 8:34PM 0 lynx nefkin p7 62.33.88.166 8:35PM 7 -sh kingjon p9 resnet66-220.res 8:37PM 0 -bash schahr01 pc cpe-24-90-108-22 7:38PM 0 -ksh triludaa pe 4.36.144.2 7:25PM 0 /usr/local/bin/party_ nohelp nofasts chaoswwc ft 75-178-175-62.li 8:35PM 0 NOOP chaoswwc ft 75-178-175-62.li 8:40PM 0 STOR /c/c/h/chaoswwc/Programas Windo chaoswwc ft 75-178-175-62.li 8:41PM 0 STOR /c/c/h/chaoswwc/Programas Windo chaoswwc ft 75-178-175-62.li 8:42PM 0 STOR /c/c/h/chaoswwc/Programas Windo grex% who roger2 ttyp0 Feb 11 20:13 (217.16.69.100) tsty ttyp1 Feb 11 20:42 (c-68-41-26-134.hsd1.mi.comcast.n) denleon ttyp3 Feb 11 20:34 (paradigm.cypress.com) nefkin ttyp7 Feb 11 20:35 (62.33.88.166) kingjon ttyp9 Feb 11 20:37 (resnet66-220.resnet.calvin.edu) schahr01 ttypc Feb 11 19:38 (cpe-24-90-108-228.nyc.res.rr.com) triludaa ttype Feb 11 19:25 (4.36.144.2) chaoswwc ftp23920 Feb 11 20:35 (75-178-175-62.libre.auna.net) chaoswwc ftp18949 Feb 11 20:40 (75-178-175-62.libre.auna.net) chaoswwc ftp16192 Feb 11 20:41 (75-178-175-62.libre.auna.net) chaoswwc ftp17712 Feb 11 20:42 (75-178-175-62.libre.auna.net)
That depends what they're storing.. I'll have a look.
my slightly dated memory is that per mailbox brightmail is not too expensive (50c or less), but the minimum commitment (1000 mailboxes) i think is far beyond what grex can afford. but more profoundly it integrates into the existing mail infrastructure; neither openbsd or exim are supported. that symantec now owns it i fear signals the beginning of the end of its quality.
triludaa using party is a problem.
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Yeah, could we turn off the idle daemon?
<southpark> No Mr. Harmon, we can't turn off the idle daemon. </southpark>
I get five (5) Ultimate Online Pharmaceutical spams a day. Is anyone still working on a grex spam filter and if so could you filter on this subject line?
-bash-3.00$ Sun Feb 19 13:53:58 This terminal has been idle 15 minutes. If it remains idle for 5 more minutes it will be logged out by the system. Logged out by the system. Connection to grex.org closed.
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Here's the thing: yes, somebody *could* turn off the idle daemon. I could, for example. The reason I haven't despite your repeated requests is that absent an urgent reason I'm not willing to substitute my judgment, or yours, in place of current system policies. If you give it even a little bit of thought is acting unilaterally to change the system policies really the kind of staff behavior you want to encourage, even if in this one instance it will lead to a result you approve of? If you're really interested in getting it turned off, why not try writing up an argument which will convince the board or proposing a member vote on the idle policy? Get the membership or their elected leadership to buy into your plan and I'll gladly make the changes as soon as you do so..
This response has been erased.
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Re: #192. You get FIVE online pharmaceuticals spams a DAY?! Wow, you must be regular. hahahah.
Jim was getting the same five at his WCC webmail account. They all have different From addresses.
I also get several Nexican Phamacy at a time, along with Mortagge Ratess. A few small filters would get rid of a lot of the repeats. Spamassassin has never produced a false positive with three stars, and half the two star mails are also spam. Could it be set up for newusers to use at their option?
My mails are still bouncing from collegeclub.com (where Jim's son has an account - his mailbox at school is full) with something about dnsblsorbs.net Spam received. Could some staff or board member get us off this list?
Re 201: I believe the answer to that question is No. Being on a spamlist is like having a negative mark on your credit report. It only matters if someone looks at it. And you can't just call the credit reporting agency up and say "hey, we promise to be good, so take that off". We have to have a period of time of no spam, and then be taken off of the list. Of course, if you want to try and call them and get them to take us off the list, I think the board can give you representative authority to do so.
I would presumably email them, but they might bounce my mail.
If their e-mail service is properly run they shouldn't be automatically
be bouncing any e-mail sent to "Postmaster". Your most likely recourse
is to send mail to postmaster@{domain name} asking them to override
their block list and allow mail through from cyberspace.org.
I'm (repeatedly) experiencing the "participation file truncated to 0 bytes so next time you bbs every item is brandnew" bug again. It's become annoying enough that I've thrown some simple shell logic into profile to automatically back up my participation files and warn me about empties, so with luck this problem won't prove so annoying to me personally.
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I'm having the same problem.
Hmmm.. I've never encountered it. Out of curiosity, marc and mary (and denise if she's reading, as I believe she's the first one to report this behavior..) do you always use picospan or sometimes use backtalk or fronttalk?
Always Picospan, never back or fronttalk. I haven't noticed any obvious pattern to when it happens, e.g. breaking the TCP connection without exiting Picospan, but of course you don't usually notice it until later.
I use Backtalk rarely. Maybe this will help - before I log off I tend to do a "check" and notice all conferences read. When I log back in is when I find the problem. The last conference I usually touch is General. But a week or so ago my last stop was indeed a conference with very little activity, finance, maybe? When I logged back in it was that conference that showed all items as new even though, on exit, it showed I was caught-up. Odd.
I am still experiencing the weirdness in Pistachio (Backtalk) where it reports a non-zero number of new responses but the "Read New" button appears dimmed and is non-responsive. It only works if there are unread items.
When trying to telnet to grex just now: Connected to cyberspace.org telnetd: All network ports in use. Connection closed by foreign host. I thought there was supposed to be no need for a telnet queue any more! (then posting entered via backtalk)
This response has been erased.
I forwarded a recently bounced mail to webmaster@sorbs.net, which is where collegeclub is getting its blacklist, and it bounced back to me with a message about some virus. How does one communicate with that place? Do they accept mail from anyone on their list?
Supplemental to resp:agora,4,211 above:
I am still experiencing the weirdness in Pistachio (Backtalk) where
it reports a non-zero number of new responses but the "Read New"
button appears dimmed and is non-responsive. It only works if there
are unread items.
This behavior went away when I unchecked the setting "view new items
before items with new responses" in the two conferences in which it was
happening. So, it appears that the script for that setting is broken.
AOL still has us blacklisted. I wrote their postmaster saying I was going to
advise all my friends to get a different ISP that did not blacklist places
where spam originated two months ago. Would it help if a lot of other
grexers also complained to AOL? I could not get through to the place that
was selling the blacklist to AOL.
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
XXXX@aol.com
SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection:
host mailin-01.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.249]: 554- (RTR:BL) http://postma
ster.info.aol.com/errors/554rtrbl.html
554- AOL does not accept e-mail transactions from IP addresses which
554- generate complaints or transmit unsolicited bulk e-mail.
554 Connecting IP: 216.86.77.194
I do not care enough about e-mail on grex to try and contact AOL's postmaster. I'm not sure there are many who do. The only way to get AOL to unblock us is for their own customers to throw a fit.
I will suggest that to two of their customers, writing from some place other than grex.
I just wrote two of them suggesting that they ask AOL to use some other way of blocking spam, and that they find a cheaper and better ISP for themselves.
Some non-profit charitable organizations are supporting members of Grex and use it for e-mail and web sites. They are being "screwed" by Grex not doing anything about being blacklisted on AOL, where many of their members might have their e-mail. Grex is probably going to lose this support.
Can the members with AOL email write AOL about this? Can you (from another account) write to any members with AOL and explain the problem and suggest they find a better ISP?
There is no reason for the members with AOL to write AOL about this. It is the organization's problem, not theirs, is their thinking.
re #220 Some non-profit charitable organizations are supporting members of Grex and use it for e-mail and web sites. Those non-profits are ill advised and should switch to something more professional like http://www.grassroots.org/
IMHO, the executives of non-profit charities that are relying on Grex for internet access are not being good stewards of their organizations.
Sindi, the realities of the situation are that AOL has little cause to worry about blocking mail from Grex, just as they don't care about whether they should be accepting mail from the small ISP I work for, which also gets blocked periodically. An unpleasant irony of Grex's situation is that the phishers who started getting us blacklisted were logging in to Grex from AOL. But it would be irresponsible of us to block mail and telnet from all AOL users -- that's a huge portion of the internet and we'd make many people unhappy. The asymmetry in size, however, means that AOL doesn't have to use similar restraint in blocking Grex. Well over 99% of AOL customers have never met and will never try to e-mail anyone from Grex, so why should AOL care about unblocking us? Unless / until their own customers start complaining about their approach and threatening to take their business elsewhere AOL isn't going to care. Otherwise the incentives are actually all on AOL's side -- heck, if people get fed up about not being able to send mail to their customers they figure that at least some percentage of those people will switch to AOL just to get their mail through, which hardly gives them a convincing reason to adopt a more reasonable spam control policy. It's not that the Grex staff don't care about the situation. But, speaking solely for myself here, I've fought this battle before (over and over, actually) and I'm tired of losing it. It's a complicated, multi-sided problem, with technical, political, and economic facets, each of which have their own sub-issues. What you see when you're looking at the current situation is essentially a very small part of the problem -- only the most recent symptom and its immediate repercussions. Some of us who have been dealing with the issue for years see this as just the latest battle in a losing campaign. That said, I think there are staff members who are more than willing to take reasonable steps to, well, if not *solve* the problem, at least make it a little better. But frankly most of the suggestions which have been offered so far for what we should be doing come from people with limited technical experience and clearly little or no idea about what's practical to implement. Nobody on staff has the time to write a whole new component of the mail system to solve this week's problem, especially when history has shown us that next week the inexhaustible supply of spammers will simply move on to some other tactic and we'll be right back at square one..
Re #224: it is common for non-profit charitable organizations to assist one another. Are you suggesting, then, that Grex is also not a good steward for itself?
*yawn*
you're supposed to cover your mouth. and get bitten.
Maybe I can ask all users of AOL that want to receive mail from me to set up a grex mail account, where they can at least get incoming mail.
What you should ask them is to ask AOL tech support whether there is a way to whitelist your e-mail address from Grex.
What are staff/officers doing about the AOL situation? It seems to be a "black mark" on Grex's standing, to be blacklisted. Is this not considered a serious matter by staff/officers?
not too funny - a critical family connection only does a0-hell and email to that address is shunned. i'd post the details but i think baff knows the details. wen rcurl and i are lockstep in agreement, it's a BAD DAY! for what grex is supposed to be.
Yes, could a staffer write to the people who sell AOL the blacklist?
Now I can't even write umax for support from grex. Could a staff member
PLEASE write sorbs.net about getting us off their stupid blacklist?
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
support@umaxcare.com
554 Service unavailable; [216.86.77.194] blocked using
dnsbl.sorbs.net, reason:
Spam Received See: http://www.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?216.86.77.194
It costs $50 to be de-listed by Sorbs, for each complaint which was received. The $50 has to go to one of the 1 charities listed on Sorbs acceptable charities list. This list includes a defense fund for someone in Australia who, apparently, tried to fight against e-mail spam and got sued. (Details are scanty.) I for one am not interested in paying extortion to this group, even in the form of a donation to what they say is a worthwhile charity. I see no reason to believe we won't just be listed again.
re #234: > Could a staff member PLEASE write sorbs.net about getting > us off their stupid blacklist? Someone could, but it would have exactly the same affect as you doing so, i.e. none at all. Blacklists don't remove your host just because you send them an email asking them to -- if they did the spammers would just do that when they got blocked.
re #226 There are better options than Grex. I think that is what we're saying.
I had Grex removed from comcast.net's blacklist by sending them an e- mail, so sometimes it can be done. I also had Sterling Commerce, my employer, removed from their blacklist.
I guess the point is that tehr is no harm in trying to speak with these people adn get the blacklist removed. All they can do is say No. One has to ask.
Can an ISP that is using the sorbs blacklist whitelist grex so grex mail gets through the sorbs filter? Are there any grexers who are also paying AOL?
Why would someone whitelist Grex which allows email abuse?
How is grex allowing email abuse?
because we do not verify people who log in, and our staff does not take action to halt abuse in a quick and efficient manner.
re #242 Grex allows email attachments which may include viruses and overall allows anyone to log into grex and send spam unchecked out to the masses (thus causing these blacklist problems.)
Grex is going to start (or already is) losing members - *supporting* members - if it isn't apparent that eveything possible is being done to allow Grex users access to these blocking ISPs. I have the impression that some users here just think this funny. I wonder how many donating members do?
I'm a donating member and I think resistance is futile. Email woes are a flea the old Grex dog can't scratch. So..get rid of Internet e-mail or else figure out how to sub it out to another ISP that will do the hard labor more efficiently....
Your first suggestion has already been adopted as a stopgap measure.
Well..that should pretty much remedy it I would think.
When it comes to being a provider of email, grex has some issues. One of them is that our open door policy has led us to be blacklisted. It might be true that will lead us to lose some paying members. It is too bad. But if we were to change our open newuser policy, we would lose members too. However, I think the staff are doing a really find job dealing wtih this email thing and while it might not get us off blacklists we are currently on, it might prevent us from being added to more.
Given that several of the blacklists appear to be IP#-based, how much good might it do if we moved to another block of IP #'s with Provide.net, vs. how much hassle would it be do that?
Is anyone still working on a way to limit outgoing mail to non-members and allowing new users to have outgoing mail again? IT is not stop-gap if it lasts indefinitely.
I'm a contributor. E-mail isn't important to me as a function of Grex, not any more. I'm sorry we can't really provide it any more, but it is clear we can't do a good job at it these days. Fortunately there are alternatives.
excuse me for speaking up, but, grex has a mission that is severely compromised, yet again, by *some* sort of .... something. free access, free email, free confrencing, free party, free unix. to me, those are not too difficult to maintain/sustain. we have lost *old* email and now we are losing *new* email. sombody(ies) "in charge" has/have a serious task to accomplish. hell, even keesan and rcurl are bitching up a strum&drang. what next?
Maybe it needs to be determined what fraction of current supporters would be lost with the end of reliable e-mail. If it is minor, then why not just give up e-mail as a service to anyone? Lots more memory and faster processing for everything else users do.
follow m-nets lead?
Putting on a spam filter would free up a great deal of memory.
Spam Cop and throttled outbound SMTP would help a ton but who is going to maintain and configure it system-wide from the staff?
Staff? Inre #254: of course Grex doesn't have to abandon e-mail between its users, but outbound e-mail is now so compromised by not having access to AOL and other servers that it might as well be abandoned. Then Grex can be honest about the services it offers.
Someone tried twice to send me an email and it got bounced back due to 'too much traffic'. Grex is not the best place to receive mail either.
HACKED BY GNAA LOL JEWS DID WTC LOL
You have several choices: