Grex Helpers Conference

Item 144: Grex System Problems - Fall 2005

Entered by i on Fri Sep 23 02:44:47 2005:

49 new of 276 responses total.


#228 of 276 by mary on Thu Dec 15 23:05:25 2005:

Now, as to whether staff would ever elect to dial-in to fix a problem if 
Grex was off the net?  Don't know.  I suspect it would be easier to simply 
go to Provide than deal with such slow and painful access, but someone on 
staff should probably answer that one.


#229 of 276 by tod on Thu Dec 15 23:29:14 2005:

Beuller? Beuller...


#230 of 276 by drew on Fri Dec 16 03:40:11 2005:

Re #220:
    Long distance can be had cheap enough
now, and modems are fast enough, that
this is much less of a problem.


#231 of 276 by root on Fri Dec 16 06:51:44 2005:

I think I may have found the problem and have rolled out a fix.
Can someone more local than myself here in Tokyo please give
the line a ring and let me know whether it is working now?


#232 of 276 by bhoward on Fri Dec 16 07:24:10 2005:

Silly me, I forgot my powerbook has a modem.  For the first and
problem last time, I put it to use, and have been successfully 
able to dial in.

Emjoy!


#233 of 276 by gull on Fri Dec 16 08:27:01 2005:

I think the dialin lines are a valuable service for some people, and I'd
hate to see them go away entirely just yet.  It will be the end of an
era, when they do.


#234 of 276 by bhoward on Fri Dec 16 08:35:05 2005:

Re#232 
s/problem/probably/
s/Emjoy/Enjoy/


#235 of 276 by tsty on Fri Dec 16 09:38:48 2005:

what;s with the spam-spew lately? 


#236 of 276 by mary on Fri Dec 16 10:52:20 2005:

Thanks, Bruce.  Very nice.


#237 of 276 by keesan on Fri Dec 16 14:32:35 2005:

Worked perfectly, and nearly instantly.


#238 of 276 by slynne on Fri Dec 16 14:33:39 2005:

Bruce, you rock


#239 of 276 by remmers on Fri Dec 16 16:50:24 2005:

Excellent.  Thanks, Bruce!


#240 of 276 by albaugh on Fri Dec 16 19:12:06 2005:

> If Grex is "NOT AN INTERNET PROVIDER" it seems that there is not much of a
> reason to keep dialup lines.

Your logic is backwards - *because* grex is not an ISP its primary purpose of
being a BBS must be supported via the ability to connect via direct dial.
It just so happens that because grex is good enough to support e-mail to/from
the internet that connection into grex from the internet is also supported
(as well as access to the internet from grex in the limited fashion of lynx).


#241 of 276 by tod on Fri Dec 16 19:19:45 2005:

What happens when modems and Internet get replaced with some form of wifi?
Will Grex oldskoolers still demand their 9600 baud in the name of charter
semantics for "BBS"?


#242 of 276 by kingjon on Fri Dec 16 19:22:44 2005:

I highly doubt that will ever happen unless Congress decides to get
into the ISP business and provide every citizen with whatever passes
for Internet then.  An Internet connection costs money, while Grex
doesn't.



#243 of 276 by albaugh on Fri Dec 16 19:36:17 2005:

While direct dial access to a remote computer system remains viable, and many
people still use it / depend on it, then yes, for such people in the Ann Arbor
area, grex should still support it.  A large percentage of people with
internet access connect to it via dial-up anyway, I'll warrant.


#244 of 276 by marcvh on Fri Dec 16 19:41:31 2005:

Roughly 65% of Internet users (in the US) have broadband, so yes, people
without it comprise a significant fraction.


#245 of 276 by keesan on Fri Dec 16 20:59:53 2005:

I heard 50%.  Maybe you are counting people who use it at work.


#246 of 276 by marcvh on Fri Dec 16 21:20:18 2005:

Nope, just home users.  Your 50% figure was accurate in August of 2004
but it's grown considerably since then, and is projected to break 70% by
February.


#247 of 276 by keesan on Sat Dec 17 01:11:57 2005:

We know two people living in subsidized housing with broadband.  One also pays
for cable TV.  No wonder there are so many enormous web pages around.  Ebay
is not the worst of them.


#248 of 276 by keesan on Sat Dec 17 01:44:19 2005:

I really appreciate dialup access.  No more frequent 1-2 min stalls, or
having what I type appear at random intervals, or unpredictable disconnects.
My 'ISP' (WCC) is not much better than grex as it used to be, this month.


#249 of 276 by krj on Sat Dec 17 06:30:46 2005:

Telnet daemon may be down.  Telnet in is broken, SSH works.


#250 of 276 by bhoward on Sat Dec 17 09:14:53 2005:

Inetd got into a funny state where it was only listening to
telnet connections on the loopback interface and not on the
network card.  This effectively shutdown telnet access to
grex for the last several hours.

SIGHUP-ing the inetd process was not sufficient.  Had to
actually turn off telnet in /etc/inetd.conf, hup inetd,
then restore telnet in /etc/inetd.conf.  This forced   
inetd to cleanup and reset all its state relating to inbound
telnet connections.
 
telnet came back to life immediately.


#251 of 276 by keesan on Sun Dec 18 03:39:21 2005:

I think talk is broken.  Can two staff members check it out?  Or I can test
it soon with a staff member but some other grexer and I have not been able
to make it work.  He types 'talk keesan' and I see at my prompt 'talk keesan'.
If I go into talk I get (on my half of the screen)  talk
keesan@localhost.cyberspace.org  .  We are sending tels instead, in which I
am trying to teach him to use mail here.


#252 of 276 by bhoward on Sun Dec 18 03:48:00 2005:

Talk is fine.  I think he is in the "menu" command environment and needs
to type !talk keesan instead of talk keesan.


#253 of 276 by bhoward on Sun Dec 18 03:54:59 2005:

(have attempted to communicate same to rpreston via tel)


#254 of 276 by keesan on Sun Dec 18 04:03:05 2005:

Me too, but he is not accepting tels.  I think he is trying to learn pine.
So I wrote suggesting we try again some other day.  Thanks.  He read my plan
and thought we had some shared interests (such as stainless steel and Latin).


#255 of 276 by mcnally on Sun Dec 18 05:08:35 2005:

 I use "talk" frequently.  Unless it broke in the past 24 hours it's not
 broken.


#256 of 276 by glenda on Sun Dec 18 10:09:14 2005:

Re #248:  How is WCC your ISP?  As far as I know, you are not student, staff,
or faculty there.


#257 of 276 by keesan on Sun Dec 18 17:55:03 2005:

Jim is a WCC student and we share his account.  I read/write his emails.
A friend just offered to let me use an account that he is only keeping in
order to get emails at it.  He has DSL too.  I won't need it now just to do
emails, with grex working.


#258 of 276 by mary on Sun Dec 18 18:08:58 2005:

I would strongly caution anyone - don't depend on Grex as your only email 
address.  Have a backup.  The same should be said of any files archived 
here.  Back 'em up elsewhere.  We aren't stable enough to be thought of as 
a dependable service provider.


#259 of 276 by albaugh on Sun Dec 18 18:24:11 2005:

That is unfortunately only too true, as recent events will attest.
And it's a pity.


#260 of 276 by keesan on Sun Dec 18 18:42:45 2005:

I have told everyone to send me important mail at sdf.  But I can still use
grex to access sdf, when grex is working.


#261 of 276 by keesan on Sun Dec 18 20:07:13 2005:

Please put a date on the motd.  'Grex was down much of today' is outdated.
Can motd messages be written to automatically expire?


#262 of 276 by bhoward on Mon Dec 19 00:44:42 2005:

Sindi, there was a current date at the top of the message when I
logged the down message and the date was further updated when I
logged the "the back up" message a few hours later.

It should be fairly easy to write up a script that can be run by
grex itself at boot time or out of cron every so often which would
update the status and update the time stamp.

The script could also log a warning to the effect that any status
who's last update date was more than X hours may imply that grex
is down.  If the system was up but /etc/nologin existed, the status
message would include the text of /etc/nologin.  Status could
otherwise be manually updated as now by staff working on the problem,
and the system would automatically overridden that when it rebooted.


#263 of 276 by keesan on Mon Dec 19 00:50:44 2005:

I did not see any date when I ssh'ed to grex and read the motd, or when I just
typed !motd now and read it again.  Or did you not mean the motd displays a
date?  I suggested that instead of writing 'today' you write 'today, Dec. 20'
Or 'Tuesday, Dec. 20'.  


#264 of 276 by bhoward on Mon Dec 19 01:01:44 2005:

I knew I should have finished my morning coffee before conferencing
this morning (today, December 19 JST)

My brain substituted hvcn status page where you mentioned motd in
#260.  Sorry.


#265 of 276 by cross on Mon Dec 19 01:19:02 2005:

This response has been erased.



#266 of 276 by gull on Wed Dec 21 03:08:47 2005:

Re resp:258: How things have changed.  Once upon a time my Grex email
was more reliable than any of my college or ISP accounts.  That was back
before we switched to OpenBSD, though, which has proved to be
considerably less stable than SunOS.  That kind of surprises me, since
I've run FreeBSD servers for a long time without many problems.


#267 of 276 by cross on Wed Dec 21 03:48:29 2005:

This response has been erased.



#268 of 276 by gull on Wed Dec 21 03:57:42 2005:

Quite possibly.  It's still surprising, because they share a lot of code
(in both directions.)  I haven't used OpenBSD for much except
stand-alone firewalls, though, so I have little personal experience with it.


#269 of 276 by twenex on Wed Dec 21 11:07:40 2005:

Maybe that's why OpenBSD is ranked so secure. I defy anyone to break into a
system that's off.


#270 of 276 by nharmon on Wed Dec 21 16:23:27 2005:

I have a USB to IDE controller I use to break into systems that are "off".


#271 of 276 by bhoward on Thu Dec 22 00:15:17 2005:

Gull, unless you are referring to something else, the only email
unreliability problem I recall since the upgrade was caused by human
error, not any kind of system problem.

If you are talking about other instabilities, most of those are our
own fault, having procrastinated on upgrading from 3.5 to 3.8,
excepting the possible memory or motherboard problem staff are still
tracking down.


#272 of 276 by keesan on Thu Dec 22 21:00:05 2005:

Mail sent to grex via an earthlink account is bouncing because they got tired
of retrying.  Mail sent via this same account is being 'DENIED' by some other
place to which I can send mail from grex.  SMTP error.  Freeshell was
blacklisted for a while last week.  I am really grateful that I can send mail
from grex to anywhere, but why is incoming mail timing out?


#273 of 276 by bhoward on Thu Dec 22 23:30:19 2005:

How long have you noticed this happening?


#274 of 276 by naftee on Thu Dec 22 23:38:00 2005:

hi bruce !


#275 of 276 by keesan on Thu Dec 22 23:41:44 2005:

Just today, when I first used this account.  Just now I tried sending to grex
from earthlink/mindspring, wcc, and one other account.  The first two mails
arrived immediately and the last one is not here yet.  I first looked up the
popmail server name.  It is not returned yet either.  
What bothers me is that mail sent via earthlink was 'denied' by someone else
I was sending to.  Grex mail gets through all the time unless we are on the
RBL blacklist, which has not happened recently.  


#276 of 276 by keesan on Thu Dec 22 23:48:36 2005:

I probably sent the third mail wrong.  Another attempt came immediately.
Grex must have been busy with a lot of ingoing or outgoing spam at around 3:29
this afternoon.


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