150 new of 457 responses total.
Isn't 484-0512 the 1st number and -0513 the 2nd number in the queue? My experience is that phone number queues don't "wrap around"...this works fine as long as people don't dial numbers further up the queue ...but features like "call back" break this assumption.
I have been dialing the second number because the first modem seemed to be bad. Has someone replaced it?
Re resp:308: That's the way it works on our phone system at work. A number "lower" in the hunt group will work its way up to "higher" numbers, but if it reaches the top it doesn't try from the bottom again; you just get a busy signal.
I get a permission error when trying to access http://grex.org/cgi-bin/wnu
The login screen has said for weeks that newuser is temporarily disabled, and that the staff is still working on restoring some accounts. How many accounts are still being restored? How long until newuser will be turned back on? Thanks!
Thanks, jep !
That we know of there is only one staff member left on Grex who has the skills to work through this issue. That's STeve. STeve knows about the problem. I have to assume his life is very busy or he'd be working on it. There is no estimate on when this will be fixed.
The following is not to put pressure on STeve. But despite my own level of "eh" re: newuser being shut off, it's not very tenable that grex, with its stated mission, a) should be running for an extended period of time with newuser down, and b) should have only *ONE* staffer able to address the situation.
Perhaps Cyberspace should dissolve itself.
Perhaps we need more volunteer sysadmins?
If it dissolved itself, would that really be a "solution"? ;-)
It's a lot easier to be provocative than to find reasonable solutions.
i volunteer.
resp:315 as it happens, I agree with you. I cant think of any good solutions though. I dont personally have the time to learn how to fix grex's issue myself. I dont know anyone else who might have the skills and who would be willing to help out. I wish I did.
Yeah, identifying the problem in this case is easier than fixing it. Grex's staff has been very exclusive and non-trusting of other users. It's worked pretty well in the past, but now that they're losing interest and dropping off in activity level, there are no replacements and no method for bringing in any new staff members. It might be a good idea for the Board to put some serious thought into the matter and formulate a plan of some kind. I know the idea has been mentioned in coop before, but nothing came of it. Mdw and valerie are gone, janc and steve are about half here (with amazing bursts of energy at times), i just keeps cranking along invisibly but isn't participating in conferences much any more. With all due respect for all of these people, they don't seem like active users in Grex's current environment. It's harder to imagine any of them returning to active participation than just going away. When they do, or at least if they do, who runs Grex?
I think there are some important questions that deserves to be mentioned, like, why should a qualified person want to volunteer their time for Grex? Is the sense of community persuasive enought to be worth the effort? Is the time donated appreciated? Do they like the people that will benefit from their generosity? Is Grex a fun place worthy of support? It may not be the fault of the staff and potential volunteer that we're in this pickle.
Mary has a good point. Anyone doing a simple cost/benefit analysis of being root staff of grex would be have to be either crazy to do it, or they'd very likely have some kind of agenda. In either case, they're not very attractive candidates for the job. That leaves only those who are really interested in the job, or at least in the skills that having the job will help develop (like a healthy insensitivity to harsh and worthless criticism).
From looking at http://www.grex.org/staffnote/, one would get the impression that Grex is overflowing with staff members. And this might discourage people from volunteering. Perhaps we can trim this list? Re: 323 and 324, We all understand Grex Board's reluctance to just hand over the keys to someone they don't know. This is why it is necessary to constantly bring in new volunteers, people who gradually are trusted with more of the system. But that doesn't seem to be happening. How many people on the list of Grex staff started working as staff in the past 2 years?
That list is out of date. Current staff, as I know it: steve (STeve Andre) kip (Kip deGraff) gelinas (Joe Gelinas) i (Walter Cramer) cross (Dan Cross) spooked (Michelangelo Giansiracusa) arthurp (Charles Mitchell) remmers (John Remmers) mdw (Marcus Watts) srw (Steve Weiss) janc (Jan Wolter) Of those eleven, three have are new to staff within the past two years. I hope I haven't missed anyone.
How many of these can fix newuser?
If grex cannot fulfill its mission - which necessarily means having a working newuser - then it has no business asking for donations to support that mission. The board must realize this as being part of its responsibility to address. If everyone is weary of grex for one reason or another, then fine, turn off its nonexempt / charitible status, and turn it into a private club, one which may or may not work at any particular time, depending on whether or not anyone feels like addressing any problems which may crop up. Call a spade a spade! (this really belongs in coop, I know)
Re resp:317: My understanding is you don't volunteer, you get invited. Re resp:322: Given the beatings staff takes in the conferences, if I were a staff member I'd probably avoid them, too.
I'm getting backtalk errors when I try to erase or hide a response
This response has been erased.
Mary, how many of your list are actively working on anything for Grex? Loginids kip and mdw haven't logged in since February so I assume they are "staff emeritus". I am not familiar with the activities of the staff in general. I am only aware of actions by i, steve and janc in the last 3 months. I thought cross had resigned from staff, but if he's active, that's great. I don't want to blame anyone for anything. The staff has done a terrific job for years, and so has the Board. I do want to suggest that, if the staff members we have can't keep Grex running, then something needs to be done. Maybe Grex can ask for volunteers from the users. The newuser program is critical to Grex. I suggest it's important enough to the survival of Grex that it's worth changing Grex's time honored practices in order to get it working.
That I know of there are only a couple of people on that list that know the software well enough to fix newuser. And one of them is pretty much not around. I'm wondering, again, if it isn't time to drop PicoSpan and our newuser program and go to Backtalk and Frontalk entirely. Now, I'm talking out of ignorance here that Backtalk even has some type of an account setup procedure that would allow us to dump newuser. But if so, it may make sense. I know Jan has Backtalk working elsewhere on the web, what do those systems use for account maintenance? I'm very anxious to get newuser running. Even without some of the damaged accounts restored. At least those affected would be able to setup new accounts and again participate. We really, really must make it a priority to not be using software or hardware that is owned or configured in such a way that only one or two people can dig us out if there are problems.
re 322 You're making yourself invisible by having your responses deleted. oops
This response has been erased.
I think grex is nearly perfect the way it is, apart from the broken newuser and an occasional crash.
After speaking with John this evening, about the newuser program, I realize I really don't know enough about it to suggest changes. Moving to Backtalk we'd still need newuser. It's not there just for Picospan. I'm learning.
As to Dan's comments - I'm sorry you're feeling so burned on Grex. I'm worried and looking to improve things, which I guess means I'm not burned. I've been here from day one and we're not big on fast changes, that's for sure, but we are big on being a user run system, where things happen by consensus, if at all. And we're an open system where anyone who finds us gets to act out in ways they couldn't in grade school. And we don't have much money. And we depend on voluteers to keep the wheels spinning. I consider it sheer magic we've lasted this long. Wow. Think about it. I'm also pretty darn good at hanging in there with problems rather than throwing up my hands and walking away. Someday, Grex will end. Yep. It will. But I'm hoping it's not for a while yet. So, my next project: Lighting a Fire Under STeve. I plan to call him and explain how Grex is at his mercy. I'll offer to take him to Zing's for dinner. Shameless manipulation. Wish me luck.
This response has been erased.
I enjoy reading cross' GreXsoft item in the garage conference. Everyone should check it out.
Good luck, Mary. Let me give a little of my perspective on what Dan was talking about, and how it conflicts with what Mary was talking about in resp:338. Mary said Grex is run by the users. It is, to a point, but the users are given the level of consent allowed to them by a very small and select group. Mary is "in". Jan is "in", and Marcus, STeve, Valerie, John Remmers, and as many as several others, but certainly no more than several. That group makes all of the decisions about the staff, and all of the real decisions about how Grex is going to be run. It always dominates the Board and always has, and it always will. It's the group recognized by the peripheral users like myself as the group which "gets it" about how Grex is supposed to run. If any of the peripheral users didn't agree with that group, they would go away (and this has happened), because it's just not worth it to push anything against that group. When the in group stuck with STeve about SunOs for an extra decade, then it was dang well written in stone that Grex was going to be on SunOs. When that group finally conceded it was plain unreasonable to keep running on SunOs, it took 3 more years to get onto PC hardware. I've been rooting for cross to gain influence and bring some new ideas into the staff for years... something like 5 years I think. He has fought and clawed and scratched and beaten people up to edge his way into having some say for all of that time (from my peripheral perspective) and now he says he's worn out. It is *hard* to break into that circle, if it's possible at all, and it's not worth it for anyone but a fanatic. But the "in" group is anti-fanatic, too. Aruba entered it, and maybe srw could have. So I guess there's a way but it seems pretty dang rare to me and I'm not sure it's possible any more. It's been fine, the "in" group has done a fine job of keeping things usable and comfortable for everyone else. It's not a tyrannical group at all, as long as you don't oppose any of it's core principles such as the technical infallability of mdw and steve. But now the "in" group is shrinking and moving on to other things. I already referred to mdw and valerie abandoning Grex, and others being less interested. I don't blame them; everyone changes over time, but there's no one around and acceptable to take their place. Given an unexpandable core but one which can diminish, and it's inevitable that an organization is going to fade in time. M-Net's entire core vanished, then the peripheral group collapsed and formed a new core, then that vanished, too. The result can be seen. (M-Net has 6 eligible voters, and didn't manage to have an election in April as required by the by-laws.) There but for the grace of <insert deity here> goes Grex. Grex needs to bulk up it's core, but the "in" group here has as one of it's very highest principles than no one else "gets it". The silent majority of us peripheral users support their belief, too.
jep, you are one messed-up guy. M-net has several very fine and talented staff members who actually enjoy keeping the system running.
it'd be nice if we could post edit our posts....I made a boo-boo :O
STeve is working on it as he has time. He is having a real time crunch at work with many machines there acting up, budget time for purchase of new machines with their installation problems (and what looks like a bad batch of Dells). When choosing between the paying job and volunteer Grex to spend limited time and energy on, I'm sorry, but the paying job has to win. Especially this summer when my job gets dropped from 20 hrs/wk during the semester to just 4 wks of work from May through September.
This response has been erased.
Anyone doing a simple cost/benefit analysis of being root staff of grex would be have to be either crazy to do it, or they'd very likely have some kind of agenda. Anyone who doesn't have an agenda is probably not the kind of person you want to have around when the going gets tough. That happens a LOT in system administration - on any platform you care to name.
Re resp:345: Well, information hiding is one way an "in group" stays exclusive. Information is power in any organization.
re 344 That means you can start cooking at home ! :-0
The old argument of "anyone who wants to be {root,ircop,sysop,admin} just
wants it for the power, or to further their agenda, otherwise, they wouldn't
want to be {root,ircop,sysop,admin}" has been used for decades to discourage
people from volunteering their time to improve a system.
I mean, am I the only one who was somewhat offended that when people started
suggesting that we need more volunteers that the response was that the user's
were to blame because of how staff is treated in BBS.
Which, by the way, I don't buy for a second. After system crashes, there is
usually an outpouring of gratitude and support from the users. Save for a few
trolls here and there, people generally support the staff.
re #344 Thanks for the status update. I can certainly sympathize. Best of luck to STeve.
Would STeve be willing to have some staff apprentices work with him?
How about Grex call out for people who are willing to volunteer to help out with the system. These volunteers can list their abilities, things they are good at. Then you take that, create a skills matrix, and assign projects; problems; etc. to teams of people with the skills applicable to that project; problem; etc. Then all Steve would really need to do is make sure things get down, and are routed to the appropriate teams.
re #352 But that sounds like WORK! :(
Glenda, could STeve show you how to help with this during the period when you are not working?
Re: #349. Nate, you're right. To be fair, not all the sysadmins on Grex blame the users. For various reasons, some of them unrelated to their capacities as sysadmin, I've suspected for quite a while that some of those who do have a generalized attitude problem.
re resp:351: In fairness to the staff members such as STeve, training someone else to do a job is hard. If he doesn't have time to fix newuser, he probably doesn't have time to teach someone else how to fix it.
Grex needs to bulk up it's core, but the "in" group here has as one of it's very highest principles than no one else "gets it". The silent majority of us peripheral users support their belief, too. Grex needs to bulk up it's core, but the "in" group here has as one of it's very highest principles than no one else "gets it". The silent majority of us peripheral users support their belief, too. If that's true, which it very well may be, then it's the "in group" that need to "get it". Many of our most regular users (myself included) have some level of UN*X expertise. Many more of them, perhaps excluding only the trolls, subscribe to some version of our "philosophy". Indeed, iirc, complaints about the (perceived or real) abuse of the system or its principles have, when specific, usually come from the users and been directed at staff, not the other way around; other staff have also either kept silent on the issue or defended the target(s) of the complaints. It's easier to inculcate technical expertise than philosophy. Perhaps none of those outside the "in group" have the expertise to hack on a binary-only copy of newuser, but given that those who do won't last forever (for whatever reason), who cares? It may be time to start replacing our proprietary sw with open-source versions, or at least with versions which have source code open, but only to staff. The more sysadmins we have, the more time they will collectively be able to spend on projects like this. If staff want more colleagues, and they don't accept that people who might have the ability to join them might not know Grex inside out but can be shown the ropes, and that their expertise can grow over time (they can learn by doing), they are going to *have* to accept it. If not, I can only hope, that those users who care revolt, and set up their own system, a la Grex, just like what happened in the early nineties to M-Net. I don't know if there's enough momentum for that to happen, though.
re #357 revolt, and set up their own system, a la Grex, just like what happened in the early nineties to M-Net. I think you got it backwards. There is too much apathy and ego invested here for skilled volunteers to "step on toes" I mean..."get trained" by existing staff.
Re #356: that's a recipe for nothing ever getting fixed when current staff fades away. But I don't believe it. I suspect there are quite a few members that need only know what the fault is, and could look at the code and fix it. OK - ask them to do a "beta" fix, and STeve can check it out and test it, before installation. But things would move forward - and some new people would learn how Grex software works.
I bet Mike McNally could fix newuser without too much tutorial on where it is and operates but you don't see anyone welcoming him with open arms. It's a shame more folks aren't invited to volunteer because the qualifications aren't THAT specialized.
mike doesnt have the proper level of aspberger's syndrome to fit into that role.
If you don't show up for the Grex Trundle and Trough-off then you're not trustworthy.
Is this the part where we're being nice to staff?
re resp:363: I see offers of help, and tod and happyboy being irrelevantly trivial which is normal for them. What do you think would help?
you just responded to yourself, nerse ratchet
would you trust a gay man with your children ? would you trust TWENEX with your COMPUTER ?!
re #363 WHAT staff? Why is it staff that has the authority to decide who can volunteer and who can't? Why doesn't the BoD step up to the plate and make some management decisions instead of letting things drag on over and over?
The board has always been of the opinion that we're not going to micro- manage staff. That has worked pretty well in the past. We've encouraged, asked what we could do to help, and facilitated as we could. Staff, on the other hand, has, for the most part, never trucked off on their own without consulting with the board and the membership on important issues. It's been teamwork. Every once of people skills I own is telling me now is not the time to change that policy. You may disagree. You may want to run for the board next time around, stating that's how you'd do business, and see how it goes.
s/ounce/once
I understand not wanting a barn full of admins running amok and fscking up the system but what if the opposite is happening and the barn is empty? Right now, newuser is defunct. There is "one" staff person that everyone is aware of that can fix it. That "one" staff person is tight on time and has had health concerns. Is that how you want to do business with Grex?
> You may want to run for the board next time around, stating that's how > you'd do business, and see how it goes. Ancient chinese proverb speaks of being carefull of what one wishes for.
STeve is working on the problem, he just called to ask me if I needed the car tomorrow so that he can work on it tonight for as long as it takes to get it done. Even if it means he misses his ride to get enough sleep to be useful at work and has to drive himself in tomorrow. He is sorry for not getting it done sooner. He will also be showing me how to do such things so that I can help more in the future. (Mary missed me on the staff list.)
This is a good beginning for the immediate problem, but it seems there is still need for a longer range solution, which is the development of additional volunteer staff members.
Indeed, more are needed. I am getting the data right now to finish the fixing of master.passwd.
When exactly did newuser go fubar? Was it coincident with going to the new system? Was it coincident with moving into the co-lo?
I believe it had something to do with a drive going bad, and the password file being messed up.
This response has been erased.
I have a feeling that both glenda and steve would agree that it isnt fair to dump everything in their lap. I am sure they will correct me if I am wrong. I agree that the lack of staff is a board issue. I am not sure exactly what the solution is here. I want to make people feel welcomed enough to feel that they can volunteer to be on staff without being in some sort of in-crowd. I want the staff to let those people who volunteer do things. Part of the problem, as I see it, is security. The staff tend to allow people they know onto staff because those are the people they know they can trust. It is true that the best way to become staff on grex is to be invited. It is an "in crowd" on staff. On the board too I suppose although it is probably easier to get on the board than it is to get onto staff. I really dont know what the best solution is though. We could always double the staff's pay ;)
Re #375: Drew - the problems with newuser are more recent than either the move or the change to NewGrex. jep's assessment of the staff situation in #342 (I think) was pretty accurate a couple of years ago. But we definitely passed the point where the board felt it was a good idea to depend on STeve and Marcus to fix things. A few years ago we acquired 3 or 4 new staff members, and we really hoped that would solve the problem. Unfortunately, for various reasons, we're largely back where we were. When this latest crisis came up, for instance, no one but STeve stepped up to work on it, and then he got it half fixed and moved on to other crises, leaving Grex in limbo. We certainly need more staff, and it's certainly true that there have been many barriers to getting onto the staff. We need a procedure for giving potential staff members some responsibility to see how they do, then "promoting" them if they do well. But the board/staff also needs the discretion to ignore applications from people who are clearly just trying to cause trouble. There's a needle to be thread there.
(Lynne slipped in.)
Re #354: Because Glenda is burned out from almost 6 years of intensive computer classes and needs a break, that is one of the reasons she is not working regular classes, just the 4 one week long special sessions this summer. She is going to spend most of her time working on the organizing the house, get her spinning wheels and looms up and working, stitching, beading, and other general crafting, and reading fiction and crafting books. The most technical reading will be SciFi (my favorite genre). The only real computer work I am planning on doing is building the computer that I have had components for since just before the emergency surgery in December 2004. It is a 64 bit processor machine with a minimum of 250G hard drive (maybe more), a gig of memory and will run OpenBsd as main OS, Net and Free BSDs and SuSe to play with, haven't decided whether it will have a small windows area or not. Some of my needlework, weaving, and beading software only runs on windows since most of the people using it aren't really computer literate and only use windows.
Right, because computer literacy is defined by Unix.
In regards Cross's comment in #377- it does seem that more information needs to be shared between current staff members. It's hard for other staffers to help when the only one that knows isn't sharing info. I've seen Cross ask several times, in this item, for more information on what's wrong so he (or someone else can help) but haven't seen ANY indication that STeve (or glenda) is sharing any of that. Maybe this is happening in staff e-mail, but I would think that if it was Cross wouldn't be here repeatedly asking for more info. Right now I'm one of those people that can telnet in to my account but can't access the mooncat account via Backtalk (which makes me glad I created this account on a whim a few months ago).
It was a lot easier for me to write my perspective about how Grex is limited by lack of trust than it is to overcome that limitation. I think resp:379 is part of the right approach for bringing in additional volunteers to the staff. There's also a need for some sort of training procedure to bring new staffers up to speed with the philosophy and practices of the staff. That will require time and effort from someone on the staff. It's also going to require patience and flexibility from the staff and all of Grex, because new people coming in are going to have their own ways of doing things. It's not fair to expect them to suppress their personalities and the techniques they have used in the past in other contexts to volunteer for the staff of Grex. They do have to fit into the team which exists, but the team has to adjust, too. In the short term, it's easier for the existing staff to just do things themselves to get by, but right now it seems apparent the short term doesn't last forever.
Hear, hear.
has steVE still not told cross what is wrong ?! i believe cross is available to fix.
Cross is not in the Burns Family "circle of trust" I've got my EYES on you, Focker. ;)
that movie was OK, but got kind of tiresome, i think
Sorry I missed you on staff, Glenda, and thanks for the correction. Did I miss anyone else? And a huge thanks to STeve for looking at the newuser problem last night. Is there an update? Is newuser back on?
thanks, huge mary !
Don't call her huge, looni Jim
whoops, big slip :( sorry, mary !
Re 389: Not yet, still working on it. Putting an item in Agora asking STeve for information doesn't work. He hasn't read Agora in years unless I tell him of an item he should look at. I forget more items in Agora than I read, so I don't always see them either. I also heavily filter what/who I read just so that I can keep up. About the only CF that STeve reads is staff, and I am not sure how often he gets there.
That's good to hear! Right, Mary?
I sure hope steVE reads the system problems' item. oh wait; that's THIS item.
... ???? mdw is gone? huh?!
May I have permission to just *look*
at the source code for newuser?
I can take "no" for an answer.
Where is it?
/grex/grexdoc/newuser
Newuser was working just before the disk went bad, was it not? My guess is that it isn't the code itself that's broken, but one or more data files that newuser depends on. What exactly happens if you put newuser online and have someone run it?
I've updated the staff list at http://www.grex.org/staffnote/
thanks, joe!
thanks, scholar !
grex% ls -las /grex/grexdoc/newuser total 36 2 drwxrwxr-x 7 root staff 1024 Jan 18 2004 . 2 drwxr-xr-x 31 root staff 1024 Jan 3 13:13 .. 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root staff 1396 Jan 18 2004 00-account 2 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root staff 164 Dec 27 2003 01-newuser 2 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root staff 160 Dec 30 2003 02-wnu 2 drwxrwxr-x 2 root staff 512 Oct 14 2004 CVS 2 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root staff 45 Dec 28 2003 build_newuser 2 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root staff 65 Dec 29 2003 build_wnu 2 drwxr-xr-x 3 root staff 512 Jan 3 17:29 datafiles 2 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root staff 684 Oct 14 2004 install_newuser 2 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root staff 367 Dec 30 2003 install_wnu 4 drwxr-xr-x 3 root staff 1536 Oct 16 2004 nu 4 drwxr-xr-x 3 root staff 1536 Dec 28 2003 src 4 drwxr-xr-x 3 root staff 1536 Oct 17 2004 wnu
BTW, if newuser doesn't run properly due to munged data, then it is deficient. (yes, yes, there are limits on what one can expect any program to do when it is asked to work with bad data)
/a: write failed, file system is full Got error 28 (No space left on device) in buffer write
por jor
Is it time to remove the 'grex was down from April 26 to April 29' message or is this meant to show how long we have been up since then?
I took it upon myself to do so.
thanks, russ !
Looks like /a is full.
/a is full again.
Jesus H christ, can someone make more room on /a, what ever happened to the 3 month reaper?
/a whatchit
get a home directory on /c, dipshits
Shaddup shuttin' up, or I'll give ya a fat lip!
re #414 hey assclown, I would if it weren't for the fact that newuser is also in a state of disrepair.
"is this the humor item?"
Simple suggestion for clearing some space on /a:
find /a -mtime +3 -name .pine_debug\? -exec rm \{\} \;
(for the non-Unixy people, that command will find all of
the files named .pine-debug? (where ? is a wildcard that
matches a single character) that have been more than three
days since they were last modified, and remove them.)
My search to find out how much space they're taking
shows they're still taking rather a lot of space.
grex% find . -name .pine-debug\* -ls | ~/pdb_total.pl
7521 files
87279280 bytes
That's 87,000,000 bytes of space that's being wasted by
stuff that nobody will ever look at or ever miss.. In terms
of modern disks that's not huge but hey, 87MB here, 100MB
there, pretty soon it adds up..
cat | butter | toast > feet
re 416 i forgot about newuser being broken. oops ! get the GreX stafferz to give you a home directory on /c
login banner mentions item 28
load averages: 2.40, 2.06, 1.89 16:29:02 94 processes: 2 running, 88 idle, 4 stopped CPU states: 71.5% user, 0.0% nice, 28.5% system, 0.0% interrupt, 0.0% idle Memory: Real: 198M/340M act/tot Free: 1170M Swap: 0K/3072M used/tot PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE WAIT TIME CPU COMMAND 25988 leemak 64 0 280K 912K run - 21:08 92.97% warcaby 5250 _mysql 2 0 34M 16M sleep poll 16:06 0.00% mysqld
The reaper was to be replaced by an automated process. I should check to see if the one we were using got moved over.
/a out of disk space again. I removed some files to clear enough disk space to enter this response but it'll be out again in no time flat.
/c :)
!last -2 keesan keesan tty01 Wed Jun 15 22:24 still logged in keesan ttyp9 pm918-21.dialip.mich.net Wed Jun 15 19:18 - 19:27 (00:09) !!!!
????
I REALLY HATE IT when my agora conf. participation file gets stomped when the idle zapper gets me when I'm sitting in bbs at agora!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe you shouldn't idle?
Han Solo: "Even I get boarded sometimes."
re #428: I lost a near-finished nethack game to the idle zapper earlier. D'oh!
the GreX idle zapper should take jor's model and knock you off after an hour, not twenty minutes
And hey. Mine is configurable during run time,
you don't even have to stop it and start it
to alter the settings.
Plus it's one tenth the souce code of idled.c,
ready for efficient customization.
www.arbornet.org/~jor/id2002.htm
This response has been erased.
jor is the ID man
paedophile
Telegram from nharmon on ttyp2 at 22:56 EDT ... What if I was to kick the ever loving shit out of you? EOF (nharmon) "if I were to"
"is this the humor item?"
i'm not klg :(
I get an "Abort Trap" message from Picospan when I try to read agora item 174.
Looks like response 4 of that item has a long line, and either less or my twitfilter is having a hard time dealing with it. Does anyone else have a problem seeing response 4 of item 174?
I have no trouble seeing it using Picospan with "more -d" as my pager.
Looks like it's my twit filter. The response has a line of length 316 characters. I bet OldGrex enforced a 256 character limit on line length, and that's why I've never seen the error before.
Drift: How did you determine that line length?
He counted using fubgrs *and* toes.
Or by using a text editor, writing to
a file, and ls -l.
High tech.
stuff you'd expect from a treasure.r.
fingers
Re #444: I downloaded the file /bbs/agora53/_174 and looked at it in a text editor.
fubgrs, ur smart, aruba.,
It's been summer for 8 hours and 41 minutes
Correction. It has now been summer for 8 hours and 49 minutes.
http://www.archaeoastronomy.com/2005.shtml
Wikipedia says the summer solstice marks MIDsummer.
Isn't the Wikipedia that online font of misinformation?
what ! what's wrong with wikipedia ?
midsummer is six weeks away.
Right - for some reason, the first day of summer is sometimes called "midsummer's day".
Summer used to be defined differently, as the 1/4 of the year surrounding the solstice, when the days were longest. Similarly for winter.
You have several choices: