Grex Helpers Conference

Item 137: Grex System Announcements - Winter 2004/2005

Entered by i on Wed Dec 22 09:06:59 2004:

68 new of 219 responses total.


#152 of 219 by naftee on Mon Jan 24 02:16:49 2005:

Just re-booted.


#153 of 219 by keesan on Mon Jan 24 04:10:15 2005:

Telnet and pine are working again but I have not received any mail for a few
hours except something from grex.  I would have expected 10 spams in this
period.


#154 of 219 by gelinas on Tue Jan 25 18:44:56 2005:

Grex panicked and did not reboot itself Monday evening.  


#155 of 219 by gelinas on Tue Jan 25 18:49:00 2005:

I think I fixed the terminal server to connect to the new machine last night,
so dial-in should be working again.

I also think I fixed the web proxy to accept requests from the new machine.


#156 of 219 by scholar on Tue Jan 25 19:30:32 2005:

Thanks, Joe!


#157 of 219 by keesan on Wed Jan 26 03:15:25 2005:

What does 'grex panicked' mean in more technical terms?  Is this some odd
hardware problem or a response to something done to the software?  


#158 of 219 by janc on Wed Jan 26 03:43:53 2005:

Software.


#159 of 219 by keesan on Wed Jan 26 03:46:23 2005:

I get a kernel panic when I tell it there is more memory than actual, or to
put root on some nonexistent device.  Did you do something equally clever?


#160 of 219 by janc on Wed Jan 26 03:58:20 2005:

I installed a slightly newer version of backtalk and fronttalk.  Backtalk has
suffered quite a few internal reorganizations aimed it making various things
I want to do in the future easier to do.  There's always a risk of introducing
new bugs when I do this, but that's life.  The major bug fix in Backtalk is
to the date parsing.  "read since" type commands should work much better.

Fronttalk has had more noticable changes.  First, it now has command line
editting (via a package known to Unix geeks as "readline") similar to what
you see in tcsh and other modern shells.  That means you can use the arrow
key to move back into the command you are typing and edit it, or use the up
arrow key to move back in the command history and reissue previous commands.

The "read since" command was working badly.  It should now work much better.
The date syntax understood by Backtalk isn't exactly the same as Picospan or
Yapp - it actually accepts a much wider range of date syntaxes.  Doing
"help date" in Fronttalk will tell you more than any sane person wants to
know about Fronttalk date formats.  Backtalk now implements the Picospan
"date" and "cdate" commands, but they are pretty useless, so don't worry
about it.

Control-Z generally should work better now in Fronttalk - things should
work smoothly when you suspend/restart the program.  Actually, part of this
was a BSD portability fix in Gate, so it may fix sometime problems for
Picospan users too.

I would encourage regular users of "bbs" (Picospan) to try out Fronttalk.
You run Fronttalk with the "ft" command.  The plan is that Fronttalk will
eventually replace Picospan on Grex.  Trying it out now to make sure it
behaves well for you would be wise.


#161 of 219 by janc on Wed Jan 26 03:59:57 2005:

Re 159:  No, this is probably an OpenBSD bug.  There is a theory that it is
due to using soft updates, a feature that may not be fully mature in OpenBSD
version 3.5.  We don't actually know what caused the last crash though. 
Things are being tried.


#162 of 219 by twenex on Wed Jan 26 12:07:23 2005:

A kernel panic is the UNIX version of a Windows "Blue Screen of Death" -
except that the last time it happened every day was probably in 1971 or so.
For the record, Windows isn't the worst - IBM's ill-fated TimeSharing System,
TSS, took over 10 minutes to boot up, but mean time to failure was less than
that. D'Oh!


#163 of 219 by keesan on Wed Jan 26 13:55:10 2005:

I am trying out fronttalk now and when I hit the left arrow I get [D and a
beep.  Am I supposed to be able to back up?  The up arrow give me [A and a
beep.  I have an 84-key keyboard and am using linux.  Down arrow [B.  Right
arrow [C.  Backspace works as expected.  


#164 of 219 by mooncat on Wed Jan 26 14:57:35 2005:

Not sure if this is just me or not, but instead of seeing apostrophes 
in responses I keep seeing:  '

In case it matters, I'm using Internet Explorer.


#165 of 219 by slynne on Wed Jan 26 15:12:48 2005:

I am seeing the same thing. I am also using backtalk with IE browser. 


#166 of 219 by slynne on Wed Jan 26 15:13:21 2005:

Oops wrong item. 


#167 of 219 by mooncat on Wed Jan 26 16:34:25 2005:

(Yeah, I noticed that too. ;) )


#168 of 219 by remmers on Wed Jan 26 16:44:58 2005:

Re #164, #165: Can you point to some specific items where the '
problem occurs?


#169 of 219 by janc on Wed Jan 26 16:48:33 2005:

resp:163 (keesan):

  I would guess that your termcaps are set wrong.  Do your arrow keys work
  in anything else?

resp:164: (mooncat)

  IE doesn't do ' ?  Yuck.  I guess I should take that out.


#170 of 219 by janc on Wed Jan 26 16:50:11 2005:

Backtalk changes lots of symbols into responses into other things, like <
becomes &lt; and & becomes &amp;.  The browsers change them back.  The new
backtalk also changes ' into &apos;.  Evidently IE does not change it back.


#171 of 219 by janc on Wed Jan 26 17:14:22 2005:

OK, I've fixed Backtalk to turn quotes into &#39; which IE apparantly does
understand.


#172 of 219 by remmers on Wed Jan 26 17:18:22 2005:

Right - I suspected it was IE lameness.  Seems to me I had a problem once
with IE not recognizing '&apos;' despite every other modern browser doing
so.


#173 of 219 by janc on Wed Jan 26 17:19:36 2005:

To state the obvious, IE is not a modern browser.


#174 of 219 by remmers on Wed Jan 26 17:20:29 2005:

Yeah - scratch the word 'other' from my response #172.


#175 of 219 by keesan on Wed Jan 26 18:05:49 2005:

My left arrow acts the same on my 101-key keyboard - BOTH left arrows.
Terminal type is vt100.  I am telnetted from linux.  Perhaps I should choose
linux instead.


#176 of 219 by tod on Wed Jan 26 18:15:28 2005:

Have you tried vt52 or vt102 or vt220?


#177 of 219 by jep on Wed Jan 26 18:33:19 2005:

The problem with the &apos; characters is fixed.  Thanks, Jan!  
Unfortunately I am limited to IE at work.  As IE was one of the first 
browsers with the capability to display XML, I am surprised it doesn't 
handle the &apos; character entity.  I wonder why it doesn't?


#178 of 219 by mooncat on Wed Jan 26 19:33:11 2005:

All better now! Thanks!!


#179 of 219 by keesan on Wed Jan 26 19:49:45 2005:

I think VT320 is the same as VT200 or VT102 with more features.  


#180 of 219 by naftee on Wed Jan 26 19:53:49 2005:

re 173 How so ?


#181 of 219 by janc on Wed Jan 26 20:39:50 2005:

Sindi:  In the old days "vt100" refered to an actual terminal you could put
on your desk rather than a protocol.  People would use these extremely dumb
computers to connect to servers, and what codes were sent to the server when
they hit and arrow key were different depending on what make and model of
terminal you had.  A DEC VT100 would send different codes than an IBM 3101
(I miss my trusty IBM 3101 - that thing could really hold a desk down).

Whatever software you use to connect to Grex (or under Unix, the terminal
window it runs in) pretends to be one or another of these fine old historical
monsters.  Usually either VT100 if the programmers were lazy, or a much
extended version of VT100 called ANSI if they were more ambitious.  So the
codes sent depend on the software on your computer, not on the actual keyboard
you are using.  You mention Linux.  Are you running xwindows?  If so, you
probably want 'xterm'.  If not, I guess probably 'ansi'.

However, I could be wrong about this.  Maybe your TERM setting is fine.  If
the arrow keys work for you in lynx, it is probably right.

Fronttalk doesn't actually do any of this logic itself.  It uses a library
module called "readline" that is also used by many of the shells on Grex, like
tcsh.  It would be very odd if your arrow keys worked in any of those, but
not in Fronttalk.

One thing just barely worth checking:  Type "display readline" in fronttalk.
It should say that readline is turned on and mention "Gnu" (since we are using
the Gnu readline library).


#182 of 219 by remmers on Thu Jan 27 01:53:52 2005:

Re #177:  Microsoft decided to stop all development on IE a few years ago.
I guess they figured IE was so well entrenched as the leading browser that
they could rest on their laurels.  Unfortunately that left their support
for XML and CSS in an incomplete state.  Meanwhile, web standards have
been evolving and other browsers (Mozilla, Firefox, Opera) have been
keeping up, but not IE.  Web designers are not pleased with IE these
days.


#183 of 219 by keesan on Thu Jan 27 13:37:33 2005:

I have typed 'tset ansi' (which gave me the usual login messages for some
reason) and then ft and will now test arrow keys.  I still get [D.  My
terminal setting on my linux computer is 'linux'.  Then I choose vt100 at grex
(I also tried linux here with no better results).  Where do I type display
readline, at line start in fronttalk?
display readline
I just typed it and got nothing back.  I am not using X.  
Lynx and links work (offline anyway) as expected here.


#184 of 219 by naftee on Thu Jan 27 20:18:56 2005:

re 182 Oh.  Is this related to the fact that Microsoft stopped working on
their own virtual machine for Internet Explorer, and told peole to use Sun's
instead?  This being for java.


#185 of 219 by cross on Thu Jan 27 20:43:14 2005:

This response has been erased.



#186 of 219 by keesan on Fri Jan 28 00:52:47 2005:

I am trying out ft with linux, vt100, or ansi terminal type, sshed or
telnetted from linux.  


#187 of 219 by gull on Sat Jan 29 04:29:40 2005:

Re resp:182: That's what happens when one company dominates the market 
and manages to push everyone else out.  Innovation comes to a halt. 
 
Re resp:184: Not exactly.  They lost a lawsuit with Sun, and aren't 
allowed to distribute their VM anymore.  I don't understand the 
details, but I think it had to do with them creating an incompatible 
version of Java by "embracing and extending" Sun's API. 
 


#188 of 219 by naftee on Sat Jan 29 06:50:19 2005:

http://java.sun.com/lawsuit/

heh. very interesting.


#189 of 219 by gelinas on Sun Jan 30 06:43:23 2005:

OK.  This time, I really think I've fixed the terminal server.  I had to
reconfigure each port, individually.

Dial-in *should* be working again.  Finally.


#190 of 219 by mary on Sun Jan 30 13:10:12 2005:

Thanks, Joe.  Must be frustrating.


#191 of 219 by keesan on Sun Jan 30 13:56:18 2005:

I tried to dial in ten minutes ago and got three lines of garbage
followed by a hangup,  so I telnetted but the load average was 89 with
ggg running 90 or more copies of the same process for the past 4 hours
(minutes?) or so. It was too slow to figure out if this is a dial-in
vandal.


#192 of 219 by janc on Mon Jan 31 19:47:42 2005:

Installed a new version of fronttalk with various bug fixes.

I don't know what's going on with keesan's arrow keys.  It does say 
"Fronttalk" when it starts up, right?  Should be version 0.9.0 now.


#193 of 219 by naftee on Mon Jan 31 21:21:15 2005:

Any chance you can install the current version on m-net ?


#194 of 219 by gelinas on Wed Feb 2 01:47:24 2005:

Grex will be getting a new telephone number for dial-in access.  We aren't
able to move the old number to the new location.


#195 of 219 by mary on Wed Feb 2 02:34:08 2005:

Bummer.


#196 of 219 by keesan on Wed Feb 2 04:04:30 2005:

One number for two lines?


#197 of 219 by janc on Wed Feb 2 05:43:13 2005:

I have no root access on M-Net, so I can't install anything there.

I did however install version 0.9.1 here.  Fixes a few more bugs.  Adds
a few more fairly obscure features.  Read Garager if you want gory details.


#198 of 219 by naftee on Wed Feb 2 18:36:03 2005:

O,ok. thanks;.!


#199 of 219 by gelinas on Wed Feb 2 22:07:13 2005:

Two lines, two numbers, in a hunt group.  So folks really only need to know
one number, just like now.


#200 of 219 by keesan on Thu Feb 3 04:45:03 2005:

A dial-in user asks what the new numbers will be.


#201 of 219 by gelinas on Thu Feb 3 04:49:46 2005:

As soon as I know, I'll spread the word.


#202 of 219 by gelinas on Thu Feb 3 20:24:21 2005:

The new telephone numbers are 734-484-0512 and 734-484-0513.  The numbers
will not answer until the modems are moved, of course.  I expect to move the
modems tomorrow.

The old number will forward to the new number for ninety days.  

Sic transit gloria mundi.


#203 of 219 by gregb on Fri Feb 4 14:35:55 2005:

Does that mean Gloria has motion sickness?


#204 of 219 by gelinas on Sat Feb 5 05:24:09 2005:

This response has been erased.



#205 of 219 by gelinas on Sat Feb 5 05:24:47 2005:

Yup.  And she married Al.


#206 of 219 by gelinas on Sun Feb 6 03:14:41 2005:

One of the modems is now connected to grex.  I think it is connected to
tty00, which is now enabled.  I know it is plugged into 484-0512.

So if someone wanted to try it, I'd love to hear how the attempt went.


#207 of 219 by keesan on Sun Feb 6 03:22:07 2005:

It is working perfectly with bbs, instant gratification.


#208 of 219 by gelinas on Sun Feb 6 03:24:09 2005:

Coolness. :)

And you are on 00. :)


#209 of 219 by keesan on Sun Feb 6 03:28:26 2005:

I am number 00!  I should get off soon and let someone else try it.


#210 of 219 by gelinas on Mon Feb 7 20:36:54 2005:

I installed a second modem and replaced the first modem.  I _think_ the
problem with first modem was caused by heat: the modem was lying flat on top
of the machine case.  I moved it to the top of the cabinet and set it on
edge, as had been done in the Pumpkin.

I also moved Grex's powerplug to the powerstrip the modems are plugged in to,
to lessen our 'footprint'.  It may also alleviate grounding problems between
the modems and Grex.


#211 of 219 by scholar on Mon Feb 7 21:10:35 2005:

thanks, joe!


#212 of 219 by naftee on Tue Feb 8 02:13:27 2005:

thanks, Joe!


#213 of 219 by scholar on Tue Feb 8 03:08:58 2005:

thanks, joe!


#214 of 219 by scholar on Tue Feb 8 04:12:51 2005:

http://www.yourbuddygeorgebushforjesus.org/


#215 of 219 by charcat on Sat Feb 19 05:16:13 2005:

agora's "read new item" dosn't seem to be working


#216 of 219 by remmers on Sat Feb 19 14:23:21 2005:

How are you accessing Agora -- Picospan? Fronttalk? Backtalk?


#217 of 219 by charcat on Sun Feb 20 03:55:28 2005:

backtalk


#218 of 219 by scholar on Thu Mar 3 20:28:30 2005:

I would like to announce that I've begun a project of amputating my superego.


#219 of 219 by tsty on Sun Mar 6 10:02:07 2005:

mute is better than amputate, but i applaud the thought


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