68 new of 82 responses total.
Hola! !Haces nin~os con su perro!
I am from China too
Re #15: Nice that you're polite about it.
Re #16: Cool! We're trying to translate this Chinese name one of the users
on here was given: Tao Xiao Sa. Can you help us?
Modems are back to hanging up on me when I want to connect and not hanging up on me when I want to say 'bye'.
resp:15 y eres un chingado cabron, gavacho puto.
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Why Grex? I would think cyberspace.org would be a very tempting target. It sounds like some place important.
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(huh. I wonder which ones.)
The page in question does (did!) exist, and was about how to download & install IRC stuff. It's possible that somebody set it up and then put the link somewhere very popular (not slashdot, I would have noticed).
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Backtalk is back!
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Quite a run of bad luck. It's strange how it comes in waves. Thanks for getting it back up and running smoothly!
see? tha's what happens when you get t turned-on donkey turned off. hurrumpg! <g>. thankx to the staff, for sure.
test
I'm currently working on upgrading Grex's httpd to version 2.0.40. This is a bigger change than we've made for a while. Like almost all new software, making this newest Apache work on Grex's old computer is a challenge. While I'm testing, there may be brief interuptions to web service, as I swap in the new server, test something on it, and swap it out again. Usually these will last less than a minute, and retrying your query will work. Unfortunately our development machine broke, so I don't have any good alternatives to doing this on Grex.
I abandoned the 2.0.40 effort. Write up another piece of softare that can't easily be installed on SunOS. I installed 1.3.26 instead. This should be fine. If you notice any changes in the behavior of Grex's web interface, let me know. There shouldn't be any.
I was wondering if 2.0.40 is usable. "40" is a pretty big number...
There was an article recently about how very few sites have gone to the Apache 2.x branch, both because of a lack of module support and because there just aren't that many advantages to it. The main selling point, IIRC, is thread support. 2.x is usable but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble yet. I plan to stick with 1.3.x where I work as long as it's being maintained.
I'm sure 2.0.40 is usable - on Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, or Windows. The Apache Group is pushing it as the version everyone ought to be using. However, they are somewhat deluded. They haven't written any documentation for it, hardly. The installation documentation mentions only the most popular configure options. I had to read the CHANGELOG to find any hint about how to link in a module not written by Apache. There document for "how to write your own modules" has not been updated for 2.0.x. They still distribute the 1.3.x version with 2.0.x, and there are substantial differences. To port mod_auth_external to it, we basically had to read source code. So is it surprising that not many modules have been ported. Why they think they can call a version that they haven't bothered to document yet "the one folks should be using" is a mystery to me.
OK, I've installed Backtalk version 1.2.2, the latest and greatest.
I haven't actually gone around testing much yet, but what's new includes:
- The abalone interface flavor has been heavily upgraded. Lots more
commands, including fairwitness commands. Many bug fixes. The goal
is to make it as complete an interface as pistachio, and we're
close. It's missing the preview/spell check function, and not
much else.
Abalone now makes fairly heavy use of Javascript. If you've got it
turned off (not entirely a stupid thing to do), it should still
function OK, though not quite as nicely.
- The papaya interface has been added. This semi-clones M-Net's old
Web-Yapp interface. It was done for the M-Net users who miss Web
Yapp after M-Net changed to Backtalk (apparantly there is exactly
one such person - there's always one). Might as well put it here
to, to make old M-Netters feel welcome. It actually has a couple
good features in it's own right. It's isn't quite as full featured
as some of the other interfaces.
- Lots of internal improvements. Whole subsystems have been
rewritten for better preformance and more flexibility.
Oh, another almost noticable change - reloading after posting an item or response should no longer attempt to post another copy.
Opps, big bug. The code to list hotlist conferences, which is shared by pistachio, abalone, and papaya doesn't work. I've temporarily disabled that function in pistachio, so it's at least usable. Abalone and papaya will be completely broken until I figure this one out.
OK, all five interfaces should be up and running.
Jan, now that you have finished this project, any chance you or anyone else could fix the problem that makes the latest version of lynx display the same page five times in a row (it 'blinks')? On a 14.4 modem and 486 computer it is tolerable, but we recently set up someone with an XT and 2400 bps modem and it takes about 10-15 seconds wait every time you load a new page - it has to draw it all, painfully slowly, up to 5 times. Longer pages take longer (one it is all loaded you can page around within a 15 page document okay). I do, of course, appreciate having the latest version of lynx installed. SOmeone said it had something to do with curses libraries. ?
An idea for swapping the test web server: run it on port 81
That'd probably be useful, but you'd have to change quite a bit of other stuff in the configuration. The most useful thing would to get the development machine to boot again, so I can test it in the same configuration that it would be installed in. I haven't the faintest idea why lynx is being idiotic.
It is most likely doing exactly what it was told to do and somewhere it was told to stutter. It has been like that since it was installed. People with fast connections and new computers don't seem to notice.
I have a request for the next Backtalk development cycle. I think you've developed a very nice product, and I make extensive use of it, but I have written my own interface for several features, and it would make things a little easier if on the "Entrance Page" you included an anchor tag just before the "Active Items" header for those who select the option of listing conference activity for their hotlisted conferences on the entrance page. That way, I can load the page and jump directly to the active list. (I do it now with a javascript command that is specific to the size of my hotlist.)
The Backtalk thing I would like is a companion product that takes usenet messages on my PC and organizes them to look like the conference, item, response structure we all like.
resp:45: Hmmm...that's a pretty Eric-Bassey-specific feature. It's trivial to implement, but is it worth sending 10 extra bytes of data to every backtalk user on the planet when only Eric-Bassey will know they're there or have any use for them? Possibly, but not definately. I'd be curious to know more exactly what you are trying to do. Maybe we can find a solution of more general utility. resp:46: Hmmm...that's a large and difficult project, and one I'd never use, since I don't read Usenet. Developing free software you don't want to use yourself isn't a sane pass-time. You need to find a skilled programmer who actually would like to have such a thing. Hmmm...maybe tpryan?
Heh, I guess you're right there. Sometimes a little perspective is a good thing. I have a small console window which has buttons for each of my hotlist conferences, and for the entrance page. The entrance page button opens another small window sized to show the active items part of that page, and having an anchor at that part of the page would simplify the display of the current items list in that window. It is a totally trivial thing, especially since I already wrote a frameset with javascript to scroll the page by a certain amount when it loads, bu I thought I'd ask anyway... ;)
I dunno, I think I agree somewhat with other's request. I find that anchors are very under-used in most large pages or complex, and expenditure of a few static bytes would increase their utility quite a bit. Compared to even one button image, an anchor is tiny.
<DRIFT> What is an "anchor"? </DRIFT>
You're making HTML jokes but you don't know what an anchor tag is? Stolen from http://www.ku.edu/~acs/docs/other/HTML_quick.shtml Hyperlinks or Anchors <a name="anchor_name"> . . . </a> Define a target location in a document <a href="#anchor_name"> . . . </a> Link to a location in the base document, which is the document containing the anchor tag itself, unless a base tag has been specified. <a href="URL"> . . . </a>
Yeah, I know what <A>...</A> does, and I know that those are anchors, but I couldn't make sense of other's request in that context. I guess it's because I don't use backtalk.
In this context, it's a machine-recognizable index mark inside a document.
Anchors are useless unless there are links to them. Eric is unusual in writing his own HTML pages that link into Backtalk pages. One thing I've thought of doing is a small page that displays you hot list, with numbers of new responses and items in each. This would automatically refresh every X minutes. Truely fanatic conferencers could pop this up in a small window and leave it on their screen. Anytime something new happens in the conference, they'd know within a few minutes. The same mini-window with just a hotlist in it might work for Eric's application.
Actually, that's exactly what I've done.
m-net update: sendmail is down all together, till I have some time to clear up the mailqueue. Sorry for the spam and associated headaches. FYI, as of now, it's my opinion that jp2 and/or twinkie were not responsible. Still investigating....
You mean I *didn't* get a message from twinkie? I'm disappointed.
Re #54: That's chicken-and-egg, Jan. Without an anchor, it's impossible to link to it. Nevertheless, providing the opportunity for people to do things you hadn't necessarily thought of beforehand is a nice gesture. (Bruce Schneier's CryptoGram newletters have anchors all over the place, making it very easy to link directly to the section of interest. The facility gets used, too.)
(resp:57 only if you forward your email from M-Net.)
The polls are now open for voting on a proposed amendment to Grex's bylaws. Briefly, the proposal is to allow telephone conferencing or similar electronic means to count as valid attendance at Board of Directors meetings. To vote, or simply to see what the proposal says, telnet to Grex and type "vote" at a Unix shell prompt, or "!vote" at almost any other prompt. Any user can cast a ballot, but only the votes of members in good standing will be counted in determining the outcome. Bylaw amendments require a 3/4 majority of those members voting in order to pass. The polls will close at the end of the day (EDT) on Saturday, September 28.
PS: The discussion item on the propsal is #126 in Coop.
I vote for h.323 meetings.
That'd be nice, Chris. You have Internet2 access we can use?
Why are you voting on whether or not to follow the law?
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Actually, we think we care about our opinion. The state isn't listening.
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Duh, no man, you must have superior knowledge to the rest of us because you're the only one who reads Rane Curl's posts on Michigan Law here on Grex. You do an amazing amount of gloating over the fact that you've half understood an issue. So here's why you're wrong anyway. A couple people say that state law says that "meeting face-to-face" includes phone meetings. Maybe so. Maybe not. If this motion gets turned down, and if a board member wanted to attend meetings by phone, what would happen? Well, he or she would have some legal arguing to do. Yes, phoning in probably counts as being present. However, does the state law require that meetings be held someplace with a phone merely to accomodate someone who wants to phone in? I doubt it. Would the state law prevent Grex from amending it's bylaws to put a residency requirement on board members? I doubt it. (In fact Arbornet has such a requirement on most of its board seats.) This vote is a choice between two paths - allow out-of-town members, or not. The "allow" choice *could* be made without an amendment, but people will be confused by the current wording for years to come, because it is not obvious to most people that a phone call is face-to-face. So if we want to take the "allow" path then it is still useful to amend the bylaws. If we take the "disallow" path, then a bylaw amendment will also be needed, probably saying something about residency requirements. Either way, a vote is needed. Would you prefer we were doing the other one? If the amendment passes, then the way is cleared for someone who wants serve as a remote board member. That person won't have to be quoting Michigan Law at us. They won't have to be trying to convince the board that they should meet someplace with a phone. This is different than what will happen if the amendment does not pass. Thus something changes.
YEAH, change the by-laws so it's harder to change them in the future! Fuck flexibility!
Changing bylaws cannot make bylaws harder to change in the future unless the change is in the adoption procedures for bylaws, such as in the plurality required, or the number of readings, etc. Such changes are not being proposed, much less discussed. I think it should be repeated again what state laws says on this. From 450:2521: "(3) Unless otherwise restricted by the articles of incorporation or bylaws, a member of the board or of a committee designated by the board may participate in a meeting by means of conference telephone or similar communications equipment by means of which all persons participating in the meeting can hear each other. Participation in a meeting pursuant to this subsection constitutes presence in person at the meeting." If the bylaws are not amended, a reasonable conclusion is that remote attendance is not allowed. The proposed amendment changes this by stating that remote attendance is equivalent to "face-to-face" attendance. The amendment does not state how remote "...electronic..." attendance is to be implement, but it also does not provide that the corporation will provide the means for this. I would interpret the bylaw to mean that the board member would have to provide the means. Since this would be permitted, it would not be legal to try to prevent such participation (e.g., by holding the meeting where "... electronic..." means was impossible or prohibitively expensive.
RE#63 -- Heh. Maybe.
Re #70: as I said in the discussion item, the amendment leaves it up to the board to decide who pays for the phone connection. It would certainly be a reasonable expense for Grex to buy a phone capable of conference calling.
Will any of the current, free, meeting spaces be available
for an incoming call, of meeting duration?
Would use of celluar cause meeting times to change to
accomoduate meeting via celluar plans (a freind has unlimited minutes
after 9pm)?
Even without "unlimited calling", one can get costs of less than 0.05/min, which makes a two hour meeting cost all of $6 - and its tax deductible if you itemize. I think anyone serving on a non-profit board is expected to cover their own attendance costs: besides, you can nosh at home instead of in an expensive restaurant.
There's an item for this, folks, and it's not this one. Can one item at the very least remain free of this argument? It's getting less enjoyable to read agora because folks don't seem to be able to keep this damn argument in one item.
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Bye bye...I don't read coop anymore as I can't stop myself from getting too involved in these nonprofit management discussions.
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Just a leap of faith into the unkown, I'd like to say Hi to everyone, and if you would like to talk with me catch me when Im here. Does anybody use slackware ?
I started out using it, but I haven't done a Slackware install in a few years. I do use Vector Linux, which is a sort of hacked-up, stripped down Slackware install, on a low-end laptop I have. You might try posting to the Jellyware conference, that's where most of the discussion of UNIX and UNIX-like OS's goes on.
help me
Welcome to Grex, phat3. It gets easier.
You have several choices: